index and search weird behavior

[Gizzo]

use Vista Business with latest sps and updates. I have a folder under
my user profile folder, let's name it folder1. It's the same level as
documents, pictures, etc. It is indexed. Index has been complete.

This is the weird behavior:

when i go to folder1 and search nothing appears. It's blatantly a bug
because I search a text in the first filename i see yet it still turns
out nothing!

But when I search from my user profile folder, it finds something from
folder1.

I have rebuilt the index many times over.

any idea why this happens and what's the solution?

 

[+Bob+]

any idea why this happens

It happens because Vista's parentally controlling search mechanism and
interface is unusable.

and what's the solution?

Install Agent Ransack from http://www.mythicsoft.com/agentransack/

Disable Windows Search indexing service.

Viola! Searching will be logical, intuitive, complete, over all drives
and directories and performance will improve greatly overall.

 

[measekite Da Monkey]

It happens because Vista's parentally controlling search mechanism and
interface is unusable.

No it's not. you are not smart enough to figure out how to use it
correctly.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

use Vista Business with latest sps and updates. I have a folder under
my user profile folder, let's name it folder1. It's the same level as
documents, pictures, etc. It is indexed. Index has been complete.

This is the weird behavior:

when i go to folder1 and search nothing appears. It's blatantly a bug
because I search a text in the first filename i see yet it still turns
out nothing!

But when I search from my user profile folder, it finds something from
folder1.

I have rebuilt the index many times over.

any idea why this happens and what's the solution?

There's a setting somewhere that prevents or allows indexing and searching
inside of files.

Ah yes - it's on the Search tab in Folder and Search Options. Read all of
the choices on that tab - it's not 100% straightforward.

 

[+Bob+]

No it's not. you are not smart enough to figure out how to use it
correctly.

Funny... you found time to bitch about my post which included a SIMPLE
SOLUTION and IMPROVEMENT for the OP, but you didn't have the time (or
ability) to post anything helpful.

In other words, a typical post for you.

 

[measekite Da Monkey]

Funny... you found time to bitch about my post which included a SIMPLE
SOLUTION and IMPROVEMENT for the OP, but you didn't have the time (or
ability) to post anything helpful.

In other words, a typical post for you.

No matter, you are still a retard.

 

[Gizzzo]

It happens because Vista's parentally controlling search mechanism and
interface is unusable.


Install Agent Ransack fromhttp://www.mythicsoft.com/agentransack/

Disable Windows Search indexing service.

Viola! Searching will be logical, intuitive, complete, over all drives
and directories and performance will improve greatly overall.

Thanks for the suggestion but I want to exhaust all solutions before I
use another tool. Are there stuff I need to configure in indexing or
search?

 

[Gizzzo]

I tried to setup and use Vista's search but found it was just not worth the hassle.
I was never 100% sure that the search had found everything and having anydoubts
about the results makes the search useless.
I ended up disabling the search indexing service and using Agent Ransack.

So am I getting the notion to just give up on Windows Search and
Indexing without understanding why it happens? It's really interesting
because it's just another folder with the same type of files you see
in the Documents folder. If it's another type like a PST then I would
understand that maybe there may be some inexplicable reason why it
wouldn't work the same way, but the folder I'm referring to has the
same docs, xls, ppts, txts, pdfs as Documents but even when a file
name stares me in the face and i copy the filename and put in the the
search field, it cannot find it!!! really boggles me and I just cannot
give up and use another tool without first understanding why it
happens. I'm sure you guys also have that intellectual curiosity that
like a last song wouldn't just go away.

 

[Dave]

Well, WDS doesn't quite work as well as it should... but

Only certain folders are indexed. To add others, go to
Start - Control Panel - Indexing Options
click on "Modify" to change or add locations..
Then click on "Advanced" and "Rebuild" to rebuild the index.

http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/69581-indexing-options.html
http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/75451-advanced-search.html
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/desktopsearch/technicalresources/advquery.mspx


Also, the search program needs an ifilter to search within a particular file
type.
Most of the common ones come with Vista. If you have files with an uncommon
extension, then you may have to add the extension to the search index.
Start - Control Panel - Indexing Options - Advanced - File Types

If you install a modern program that uses a certain file type, then the
appropriate ifilter should get installed by that program.
http://www.ifilter.org/faq.htm

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

So am I getting the notion to just give up on Windows Search and
Indexing without understanding why it happens? It's really interesting
because it's just another folder with the same type of files you see
in the Documents folder. If it's another type like a PST then I would
understand that maybe there may be some inexplicable reason why it
wouldn't work the same way, but the folder I'm referring to has the
same docs, xls, ppts, txts, pdfs as Documents but even when a file
name stares me in the face and i copy the filename and put in the the
search field, it cannot find it!!! really boggles me and I just cannot
give up and use another tool without first understanding why it
happens. I'm sure you guys also have that intellectual curiosity that
like a last song wouldn't just go away.

If you discover a good reference (Dave's post seems to be one, but it
addresses a limited area) let us know.

Vista search does work for me occasionally, but the books I bought are not
enough help in that area. They're two from O'Reilly, "Windows Vista - The
Missing manual" and "Windows Vista in a Nutshell". At least they got me
going in Vista.

I use Agent Rancid when Vista Search frustrates me.

Note: I really do call it Agent Ransack, but I'm in a weird enough mood ;-)

 

[+Bob+]

Vista search does work for me occasionally, but the books I bought are not
enough help in that area. They're two from O'Reilly, "Windows Vista - The
Missing manual" and "Windows Vista in a Nutshell". At least they got me
going in Vista.

I use Agent Rancid when Vista Search frustrates me.

Note: I really do call it Agent Ransack, but I'm in a weird enough mood ;-)

The issue I have with Vista Search is that, aside from it's convoluted
and almost impossible interface and "language" choice, is that you
cant' trust it. Every time you turn around there is another little
facet you need to investigate, as Dave outlined.

As an example, consider the requirement to add file extensions to the
search tool for any extension the search tool has not been previously
informed of. That's absurd and incredibly bad design. Just as one
point, a search tool by definition needs to find something you are not
specifically sure of the name of... but you need to insure that the
search tool knows about those file types.Add to that MS's exclusion of
certain directories and file types that they parentally decided you
didn't need to search (HTF do they know what I need to search?).

We'll, I could write a book on all that is wrong with Vista search. At
a minimum, a search tool should search globally using the information
you give it as criteria - and there should be no exclusions. There
should also be an easy to understand intuitive, interface. This is
just not that complicated a process - but MS managed to make it so.

Bottom line, everyone should sun Vista search and use a third party
tool that actually does the job. (My WAG tells me Windows 7 will be
just as bad in this department).

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

The issue I have with Vista Search is that, aside from it's convoluted
and almost impossible interface and "language" choice, is that you
cant' trust it. Every time you turn around there is another little
facet you need to investigate, as Dave outlined.

As an example, consider the requirement to add file extensions to the
search tool for any extension the search tool has not been previously
informed of. That's absurd and incredibly bad design. Just as one
point, a search tool by definition needs to find something you are not
specifically sure of the name of... but you need to insure that the
search tool knows about those file types.Add to that MS's exclusion of
certain directories and file types that they parentally decided you
didn't need to search (HTF do they know what I need to search?).

We'll, I could write a book on all that is wrong with Vista search. At
a minimum, a search tool should search globally using the information
you give it as criteria - and there should be no exclusions. There
should also be an easy to understand intuitive, interface. This is
just not that complicated a process - but MS managed to make it so.

Bottom line, everyone should sun Vista search and use a third party
tool that actually does the job. (My WAG tells me Windows 7 will be
just as bad in this department).

One point only: if you're asking a program to search within a file for
"text", it has to know how the text is encoded. With the huge numbers of
applications, I wouldn't ask a search program to know how to read all
formats, I'd ask the providers of the formats, or at least the uncommon
ones, to provide plug-ins for their formats. It could be as simple as a
properly encoded statement that the internal text format is ... tada! ...
text. That isn't always the case, e.g. in compressed formats.

Other than that, I'm not in disagreement with you. It's just that I
(foolishly) believe that search *should* work, so I often try it first -
but not always last

And by golly it sometimes works. Who knew?

And as I said, I keep Agent Ransack handy

 

[+Bob+]

One point only: if you're asking a program to search within a file for
"text", it has to know how the text is encoded. With the huge numbers of
applications, I wouldn't ask a search program to know how to read all
formats, I'd ask the providers of the formats, or at least the uncommon
ones, to provide plug-ins for their formats. It could be as simple as a
properly encoded statement that the internal text format is ... tada! ...
text. That isn't always the case, e.g. in compressed formats.

While compressed formats are unique, in many cases the search program
just looks for embedded ascii text within the file, regardless of
format.

Other than that, I'm not in disagreement with you. It's just that I
(foolishly) believe that search *should* work, so I often try it first -
but not always last

And by golly it sometimes works. Who knew?

It's marginally useable when you want to find a specific file and you
know what it is when you find it (assuming you make it through the
interface and limitations). But, when you want to find ALL files that
have a particular characteristic, it's positively dangerous.

 

[Gizzzo]

Ok guys. Thanks for the help. I will give it a try and hope it works
also for PSTs when I do outlook searches. let you guys know the results

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

One point only: if you're asking a program to search within a file for
"text", it has to know how the text is encoded. With the huge numbers of
applications, I wouldn't ask a search program to know how to read all
formats, I'd ask the providers of the formats, or at least the uncommon
ones, to provide plug-ins for their formats. It could be as simple as a
properly encoded statement that the internal text format is ... tada! ...
text. That isn't always the case, e.g. in compressed formats.

Other than that, I'm not in disagreement with you. It's just that I
(foolishly) believe that search *should* work, so I often try it first -
but not always last

And by golly it sometimes works. Who knew?

And as I said, I keep Agent Ransack handy

Just about a half hour ago, I needed a file or two with 'laptop' in the
name. I used Vista search and I found them! Quickly, too.

Hard to believe...

 

[Jon]

Just about a half hour ago, I needed a file or two with 'laptop' in the
name. I used Vista search and I found them! Quickly, too.

That's the way I see it. I don't subscribe to the 'you're only allowed one
search tool' philosophy. Vista's Search certainly has its uses, as well its
shortfalls.

 

[+Bob+]

That's the way I see it. I don't subscribe to the 'you're only allowed one
search tool' philosophy. Vista's Search certainly has its uses, as well its
shortfalls.

While Vista search might occasionally produce the correct results, I
don't risk it. The one time it fails to find a file you should have
paid attention to you will regret it. No sense taking a risk you don't
need to take.

(There's also no sense spending system cycles to index every file you
ever save when you only search a very low percentage of the time...
but that's another issue! )

 

[Gizzzo]

Well, WDS doesn't quite work as well as it should... but

Only certain folders are indexed.  To add others, go to
Start - Control Panel - Indexing Options
click on "Modify" to change or add locations..
Then click on "Advanced" and "Rebuild" to rebuild the index.

http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/6.../windows/products/winfamily/desktopsearch/tec...

I've done this many times

Also, the search program needs an ifilter to search within a particular file
type.
Most of the common ones come with Vista.  If you have files with an uncommon
extension, then you may have to add the extension to the search index.
Start - Control Panel - Indexing Options - Advanced - File Types

If you install a modern program that uses a certain file type, then the
appropriate ifilter should get installed by that program.http://www.ifilter.org/faq.htm

I only search docs and excels mostly. The thing is the folder
(indexed) is open right in front of me with the list of files. To
test, I search the filename of the first file on the list but there is
no results!! really boggles me

 

[Gizzzo]

Ok guys. Thanks for the help. I will give it a try and hope it works
also for PSTs when I do outlook searches. let you guys know the results

I gave Agent ransack a try and here are my first impressions:

1. It doesn't seem like it indexes (or maybe i just haven't configured
it because I haven't. just did a quick search.) and i found it slow as
it had to go thru all the folders.
2. It cannot search thru pst files or maybe i just don't know how.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

I gave Agent ransack a try and here are my first impressions:

1. It doesn't seem like it indexes (or maybe i just haven't configured
it because I haven't. just did a quick search.) and i found it slow as
it had to go thru all the folders.
2. It cannot search thru pst files or maybe i just don't know how.

My experience is that Ransack doesn't index, and that it is slow.

That said, it frequently finds things that Vista Search missed. That's
gotta be worth something

I don't know about AR and pst files, sorry.