in lieu of swapping out hard drives

[childofthe1980s]

Hello:

I have a Windows XP 2 laptop. I do not like to use VPC images to view
Windows Server 2003.

I do not want to have to swap out the hard drive on my laptop in order to
use Windows Server 2003 for testing purposes. That leaves me to the use of
an external hard drive. But, an external hard drive does not allow you to
have a separate operating system such as Windows Server 2003.

You see, I want to use the Windows Server 2003 operating system here on my
laptop for testing purposes so that I do not have to use images. Any ideas?

Thanks!

childofthe1980s

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

If you have an ExpressCard slot you should be able to use an external SATA
hard drive in a SATA enclosure to boot a second Windows, including Server
2003. There are ExpressCards that provide one or two eSATA ports and this
should work exactly like the eSATA ports on the back of the newer desktops.
Although the usb bus does not support a bootable drive eSATA ports do.

 

[Anna]

If you have an ExpressCard slot you should be able to use an external SATA
hard drive in a SATA enclosure to boot a second Windows, including Server
2003. There are ExpressCards that provide one or two eSATA ports and this
should work exactly like the eSATA ports on the back of the newer
desktops. Although the usb bus does not support a bootable drive eSATA
ports do.

Colin (& OP):
Colin's suggestion re using a eSATA ExpressCard to meet the OP's objective
involving a dual-boot situation would surely be the way to go (assuming the
OP's laptop contains the ExpressCard/34 interface) *provided* that the eSATA
ExpressCard device would have bootable capability.

And there's the rub...at least with our experience to date.

While we have not worked with the Windows Server 2003 OS in this type of
situation, we've been very much interested in finding a technology that
would allow a laptop/notebook user to clone the contents of his/her XP OS
onto a external HDD that would be bootable - similar to a desktop PC system
using internal HDDs or if the motherboard contained an eSATA port where one
could connect an external SATA HDD containing a bootable XP OS (presumably
the cloned contents of the user's day-to-day working HDD). Our chief
objective has been to find a practical technology allowing for a
comprehensive backup system involving laptop/notebooks whereby the recipient
of the cloned contents of the internal HDD would be a bootable device.
(We've used the Symantec Ghost, Acronis True Image, and Casper 4.0
disk-cloning programs in the process).

The problem we've encountered in trying to achieve this objective applies to
both the CardBus (PCMCIA) type of laptop/notebook device and the newer eSATA
ExpressCard devices. We've worked with a variety of these devices (about
three I think) and laptop/notebooks but we've been unable to boot to the
external SATA HDD (containing a bootable copy of the XP OS) so connected.

So Colin...

Have you *personally* been able to achieve this "bootability" at least with
respect to the XP OS? If so, would you let me know the make/model of the
eSATA CardBus device you used? Thanks.
Anna

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

The only pure Windows laptop in the house is my wife's and I am not
permitted to modify it. She knows all about how I have used eSATA ports on
my test box to experiment with multibooting and is not about to consent to
my tinkering with her Compaq. Beyond verifying that an ExpressCard works to
mount an external SATA drive on her laptop, I haven't been able to go
further.

I have been using the ExpressCard with my MacBook Pro but Boot Camp does not
support a Windows partition on an external drive so I haven't been able to
pursue that route either.

I do know that firmware has been an issue with enabling what should just
work using an ExpressCard but I am not sure if BIOS issues exist also. Most
of my interest has been with various ways of multibooting with Vista and I
have not considered XP at all since XP is rapidly disappearing from my
house. Vista SP1 is supposed to fully implement EFI and while that doesn't
do anything for this discussion of XP it may impact use of ExpressCards to
multiboot Windows eventually, even if indirectly.

I guess my main point in my reply was to redirect thinking away from USB,
which is what a lot of users first think of when trying to figure out how to
boot Windows from an external drive. That avenue is a dead end. The
relatively slow transfer rate makes USB remarkably uninteresting to me in
any case. Of course, the ability to boot from an external usb optical drive
would make diagnostic and repair work easier, but that is another topic.

 

[C.Joseph S. Drayton]

I am a software developer, and I found the simplest solution is to have
a multi-OS system.

The primary hard disk in my laptop (I have 2 hard disk), contains
Windows2000pe, WindowsXPpe and Ubuntu.

Setting up a multi-OS system is pretty straight forward so long as you
do them in the right order. In my case, I wiped the disk then created a
partition for Windows2000pe. Then I created the next partition and
installed WindowsXPpe then I used a Ubuntu live CD to install Linux.

Note that when installing multiple Windows, it is best to start with
the oldest Windows first and work forward. Then Install any other OS.

When I boot, I get the grub menu and choose Windows. I then get the
Windows boot-loader where I can choose between Windows2000pe,
WindowsXPpe and the recovery console.

I do most of my coding from within WindowsXPpe. Since my apps are
designed to run under all Windows (except for Vista), I also run
VirtualPC and have VMs on the secondary drive for all flavors of
Windows.

If you end up installing a version of Linux, be careful since some
updates will reset your 'lilo' or 'grub' and you will lose access to
your Windows partitions. It can be easily fixed, so long as you keep a
LiveCD handy and remember the four commands that allow you to re-write
the grub or lilo config file.

One last word. I have been playing with Linux more, but lets face it,
it is a Windows world and will be for the foreseeable future, so I have
set up VMWare's VMPlayer under Linux to use the native Windows
partition rather than a virtual drive.

--

C.Joseph Drayton, Ph.D. AS&T

CSD Computer Services
Web site: http://csdcs.tlerma.com/
E-mail: (e-mail address removed)

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Joe, the issue isn't about how to multiboot. It is about how to do it on a
laptop with an external drive and the resulting discussion is about problems
of accomplishing that with an ExpressCard eSATA port.

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Colin (& OP):
Colin's suggestion re using a eSATA ExpressCard to meet the
OP's objective involving a dual-boot situation would surely be
the way to go (assuming the OP's laptop contains the
ExpressCard/34 interface) *provided* that the eSATA ExpressCard device would
have bootable capability.

[.........]

The problem we've encountered in trying to achieve this
objective applies to both the CardBus (PCMCIA) type
of laptop/notebook device and the newer eSATA ExpressCard devices. We've
worked with a variety of these
devices (about three I think) and laptop/notebooks but we've
been unable to boot to the external SATA HDD (containing
a bootable copy of the XP OS) so connected.

This is very interesting to me, Anna, as I am now in the
market for a laptop with an ExpressCard interface just for
the purpose discussed here - bootability from an eSATA
hard drive. I have been planning to use this ExpressCard
eSATA adapter made by SIIG:
http://siig.com/ViewProduct.aspx?pn=SC-SAEE22-S1
Is this one of the ExpressCards that you've tried?

When you look at the Boot Sequence in the BIOS,
how does the ExpressCard appear in the list of device types?
Have you tried putting that device type (assuming that it appears)
at the head of the list?

*TimDaniels*

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Colin (& OP):
Colin's suggestion re using a eSATA ExpressCard to meet the
OP's objective involving a dual-boot situation would surely be
the way to go (assuming the OP's laptop contains the
ExpressCard/34 interface) *provided* that the eSATA
ExpressCard device would have bootable capability.

[.........]

The problem we've encountered in trying to achieve this
objective applies to both the CardBus (PCMCIA) type
of laptop/notebook device and the newer eSATA
ExpressCard devices. We've worked with a variety of these
devices (about three I think) and laptop/notebooks but we've
been unable to boot to the external SATA HDD (containing
a bootable copy of the XP OS) so connected.

This is very interesting to me, Anna, as I am now in the
market for a laptop with an ExpressCard interface just for
the purpose discussed here - bootability from an eSATA
hard drive. I have been planning to use this ExpressCard
eSATA adapter made by SIIG:
http://siig.com/ViewProduct.aspx?pn=SC-SAEE22-S1
Is this one of the ExpressCards that you've tried?

When you look at the Boot Sequence in the BIOS,
how does the ExpressCard appear in the list of device types?
Have you tried putting that device type (assuming that it appears)
at the head of the list?

*TimDaniels*

I just called tech support at SIIG on a direct line, and
the technician said that a HD connected via an eSATA
ExpressCard cannot be used to boot the system. My
guess is that a laptop's BIOS is just not setup to enable
booting from other than the internal hard drive.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

That has been my guess also.

Colin (& OP):
Colin's suggestion re using a eSATA ExpressCard to meet the
OP's objective involving a dual-boot situation would surely be
the way to go (assuming the OP's laptop contains the
ExpressCard/34 interface) *provided* that the eSATA
ExpressCard device would have bootable capability.

[.........]

The problem we've encountered in trying to achieve this
objective applies to both the CardBus (PCMCIA) type
of laptop/notebook device and the newer eSATA
ExpressCard devices. We've worked with a variety of these
devices (about three I think) and laptop/notebooks but we've
been unable to boot to the external SATA HDD (containing
a bootable copy of the XP OS) so connected.

This is very interesting to me, Anna, as I am now in the
market for a laptop with an ExpressCard interface just for
the purpose discussed here - bootability from an eSATA
hard drive. I have been planning to use this ExpressCard
eSATA adapter made by SIIG:
http://siig.com/ViewProduct.aspx?pn=SC-SAEE22-S1
Is this one of the ExpressCards that you've tried?

When you look at the Boot Sequence in the BIOS,
how does the ExpressCard appear in the list of device types?
Have you tried putting that device type (assuming that it appears)
at the head of the list?

*TimDaniels*

I just called tech support at SIIG on a direct line, and
the technician said that a HD connected via an eSATA
ExpressCard cannot be used to boot the system. My
guess is that a laptop's BIOS is just not setup to enable
booting from other than the internal hard drive.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Anna]

Colin (& OP):
Colin's suggestion re using a eSATA ExpressCard to meet the
OP's objective involving a dual-boot situation would surely be
the way to go (assuming the OP's laptop contains the
ExpressCard/34 interface) *provided* that the eSATA
ExpressCard device would have bootable capability.

[.........]

The problem we've encountered in trying to achieve this
objective applies to both the CardBus (PCMCIA) type
of laptop/notebook device and the newer eSATA
ExpressCard devices. We've worked with a variety of these
devices (about three I think) and laptop/notebooks but we've
been unable to boot to the external SATA HDD (containing
a bootable copy of the XP OS) so connected.

This is very interesting to me, Anna, as I am now in the
market for a laptop with an ExpressCard interface just for
the purpose discussed here - bootability from an eSATA
hard drive. I have been planning to use this ExpressCard
eSATA adapter made by SIIG:
http://siig.com/ViewProduct.aspx?pn=SC-SAEE22-S1
Is this one of the ExpressCards that you've tried?

When you look at the Boot Sequence in the BIOS,
how does the ExpressCard appear in the list of device types?
Have you tried putting that device type (assuming that it appears)
at the head of the list?

*TimDaniels*

I just called tech support at SIIG on a direct line, and
the technician said that a HD connected via an eSATA
ExpressCard cannot be used to boot the system. My
guess is that a laptop's BIOS is just not setup to enable
booting from other than the internal hard drive.

*TimDaniels*

Tim (& Colin):
The SIIG's technician report that the ExpressCard is not a bootable device
(at least with respect to the XP OS) parallels our own experience with these
devices. I recall working with a Vantec model and some no-name device and
perhaps one or two others whose make/model I can't recall (it may very well
have been a SIIG model) and the results have always been the same, i.e.,
inability to boot from a cloned copy of the XP OS on the ExpressCard. And we
long ago came to the conclusion that this was not possible with the CardBus
(PCMCIA) type of device.

In any event the device - be it ExpressCard or CardBus - did not appear in
the boot priority order of any motherboard we've used, the system obviously
not detecting it as a bootable device.

We've been in touch with the SATA-IO organization -
http://www.serialata.org/ - re eSATA ExpressCard boot capability but have
not received any definitive info from that source re this issue.
Anna

 

[C.Joseph S. Drayton]

Joe, the issue isn't about how to multiboot. It is about how to do
it on a laptop with an external drive and the resulting discussion is
about problems of accomplishing that with an ExpressCard eSATA port.

I miss understood then. I thought the OP needed to be able to run
multiple OSes, and assumed that the easiest way would be with an
external drive. Since I spend most of my time in the field, having to
carry external devices to me is a last resort.

If the OP doesn't mind having to use an external drive, I can verify
that the eSATA drive is an option. I tested it on my HP dv8100cto and
when the card is installe and connect to a drive, if I hit [ESC] on
boot, I am given the option to boot from the external drive. Its
interesting, because if you go into the BIOS, it doesn't list that
drive unless it is physically connected.

I found it by accident when I was testing the drive and did a reboot
and wanted to boot from the CD and saw the drive listed as a possible
boot device.

--

C.Joseph Drayton, Ph.D. AS&T

CSD Computer Services
Web site: http://csdcs.tlerma.com/
E-mail: (e-mail address removed)

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Since the EC connects to the right bus it should work. I suspect that the
firmware and/or the BIOS are the problem in general and will get
straightened out in the future. There should come a time when the
technology just works.

:
Colin (& OP):
Colin's suggestion re using a eSATA ExpressCard to meet the
OP's objective involving a dual-boot situation would surely be
the way to go (assuming the OP's laptop contains the
ExpressCard/34 interface) *provided* that the eSATA
ExpressCard device would have bootable capability.

[.........]

The problem we've encountered in trying to achieve this
objective applies to both the CardBus (PCMCIA) type
of laptop/notebook device and the newer eSATA
ExpressCard devices. We've worked with a variety of these
devices (about three I think) and laptop/notebooks but we've
been unable to boot to the external SATA HDD (containing
a bootable copy of the XP OS) so connected.

This is very interesting to me, Anna, as I am now in the
market for a laptop with an ExpressCard interface just for
the purpose discussed here - bootability from an eSATA
hard drive. I have been planning to use this ExpressCard
eSATA adapter made by SIIG:
http://siig.com/ViewProduct.aspx?pn=SC-SAEE22-S1
Is this one of the ExpressCards that you've tried?

When you look at the Boot Sequence in the BIOS,
how does the ExpressCard appear in the list of device types?
Have you tried putting that device type (assuming that it appears)
at the head of the list?

*TimDaniels*

I just called tech support at SIIG on a direct line, and
the technician said that a HD connected via an eSATA
ExpressCard cannot be used to boot the system. My
guess is that a laptop's BIOS is just not setup to enable
booting from other than the internal hard drive.

*TimDaniels*

Tim (& Colin):
The SIIG's technician report that the ExpressCard is not a bootable device
(at least with respect to the XP OS) parallels our own experience with
these devices. I recall working with a Vantec model and some no-name
device and perhaps one or two others whose make/model I can't recall (it
may very well have been a SIIG model) and the results have always been the
same, i.e., inability to boot from a cloned copy of the XP OS on the
ExpressCard. And we long ago came to the conclusion that this was not
possible with the CardBus (PCMCIA) type of device.

In any event the device - be it ExpressCard or CardBus - did not appear in
the boot priority order of any motherboard we've used, the system
obviously not detecting it as a bootable device.

We've been in touch with the SATA-IO organization -
http://www.serialata.org/ - re eSATA ExpressCard boot capability but have
not received any definitive info from that source re this issue.
Anna

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

See Joe's interesting response below. Very interesting.

:
Colin (& OP):
Colin's suggestion re using a eSATA ExpressCard to meet the
OP's objective involving a dual-boot situation would surely be
the way to go (assuming the OP's laptop contains the
ExpressCard/34 interface) *provided* that the eSATA
ExpressCard device would have bootable capability.

[.........]

The problem we've encountered in trying to achieve this
objective applies to both the CardBus (PCMCIA) type
of laptop/notebook device and the newer eSATA
ExpressCard devices. We've worked with a variety of these
devices (about three I think) and laptop/notebooks but we've
been unable to boot to the external SATA HDD (containing
a bootable copy of the XP OS) so connected.

This is very interesting to me, Anna, as I am now in the
market for a laptop with an ExpressCard interface just for
the purpose discussed here - bootability from an eSATA
hard drive. I have been planning to use this ExpressCard
eSATA adapter made by SIIG:
http://siig.com/ViewProduct.aspx?pn=SC-SAEE22-S1
Is this one of the ExpressCards that you've tried?

When you look at the Boot Sequence in the BIOS,
how does the ExpressCard appear in the list of device types?
Have you tried putting that device type (assuming that it appears)
at the head of the list?

*TimDaniels*

I just called tech support at SIIG on a direct line, and
the technician said that a HD connected via an eSATA
ExpressCard cannot be used to boot the system. My
guess is that a laptop's BIOS is just not setup to enable
booting from other than the internal hard drive.

*TimDaniels*

Tim (& Colin):
The SIIG's technician report that the ExpressCard is not a bootable device
(at least with respect to the XP OS) parallels our own experience with
these devices. I recall working with a Vantec model and some no-name
device and perhaps one or two others whose make/model I can't recall (it
may very well have been a SIIG model) and the results have always been the
same, i.e., inability to boot from a cloned copy of the XP OS on the
ExpressCard. And we long ago came to the conclusion that this was not
possible with the CardBus (PCMCIA) type of device.

In any event the device - be it ExpressCard or CardBus - did not appear in
the boot priority order of any motherboard we've used, the system
obviously not detecting it as a bootable device.

We've been in touch with the SATA-IO organization -
http://www.serialata.org/ - re eSATA ExpressCard boot capability but have
not received any definitive info from that source re this issue.
Anna

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

This is a useful piece of information. The problem is specifically about
how to boot from an eSATA drive via an ExpressCard SATA connector on a
laptop. Everyone is clear that it works with eSATA ports on desktops.

Joe, the issue isn't about how to multiboot. It is about how to do
it on a laptop with an external drive and the resulting discussion is
about problems of accomplishing that with an ExpressCard eSATA port.

I miss understood then. I thought the OP needed to be able to run
multiple OSes, and assumed that the easiest way would be with an
external drive. Since I spend most of my time in the field, having to
carry external devices to me is a last resort.

If the OP doesn't mind having to use an external drive, I can verify
that the eSATA drive is an option. I tested it on my HP dv8100cto and
when the card is installe and connect to a drive, if I hit [ESC] on
boot, I am given the option to boot from the external drive. Its
interesting, because if you go into the BIOS, it doesn't list that
drive unless it is physically connected.

I found it by accident when I was testing the drive and did a reboot
and wanted to boot from the CD and saw the drive listed as a possible
boot device.

--

C.Joseph Drayton, Ph.D. AS&T

CSD Computer Services
Web site: http://csdcs.tlerma.com/
E-mail: (e-mail address removed)

 

[C.Joseph S. Drayton]

This is a useful piece of information. The problem is specifically
about how to boot from an eSATA drive via an ExpressCard SATA
connector on a laptop. Everyone is clear that it works with eSATA
ports on desktops.

Joe, the issue isn't about how to multiboot. It is about how to
do it on a laptop with an external drive and the resulting
discussion is about problems of accomplishing that with an
ExpressCard eSATA port.

I am a software developer, and I found the simplest solution is
to have a multi-OS system.

The primary hard disk in my laptop (I have 2 hard disk),
contains Windows2000pe, WindowsXPpe and Ubuntu.

Setting up a multi-OS system is pretty straight forward so long
as you do them in the right order. In my case, I wiped the disk
then created a partition for Windows2000pe. Then I created the
next partition and installed WindowsXPpe then I used a Ubuntu
live CD to install Linux.

Note that when installing multiple Windows, it is best to start
with the oldest Windows first and work forward. Then Install
any other OS.

When I boot, I get the grub menu and choose Windows. I then get
the Windows boot-loader where I can choose between
Windows2000pe, WindowsXPpe and the recovery console.

I do most of my coding from within WindowsXPpe. Since my apps
are designed to run under all Windows (except for Vista), I
also run VirtualPC and have VMs on the secondary drive for all
flavors of Windows.

If you end up installing a version of Linux, be careful since
some updates will reset your 'lilo' or 'grub' and you will lose
access to your Windows partitions. It can be easily fixed, so
long as you keep a LiveCD handy and remember the four commands
that allow you to re-write the grub or lilo config file.

One last word. I have been playing with Linux more, but lets
face it, it is a Windows world and will be for the foreseeable
future, so I have set up VMWare's VMPlayer under Linux to use
the native Windows partition rather than a virtual drive.

--
C.Joseph Drayton, Ph.D. AS&T

CSD Computer Services
Web site: http://csdcs.tlerma.com/
E-mail: (e-mail address removed)

I miss understood then. I thought the OP needed to be able to run
multiple OSes, and assumed that the easiest way would be with an
external drive. Since I spend most of my time in the field, having
to carry external devices to me is a last resort.

If the OP doesn't mind having to use an external drive, I can verify
that the eSATA drive is an option. I tested it on my HP dv8100cto
and when the card is installe and connect to a drive, if I hit
[ESC] on boot, I am given the option to boot from the external
drive. Its interesting, because if you go into the BIOS, it doesn't
list that drive unless it is physically connected.

I found it by accident when I was testing the drive and did a reboot
and wanted to boot from the CD and saw the drive listed as a
possible boot device.

--
C.Joseph Drayton, Ph.D. AS&T

CSD Computer Services
Web site: http://csdcs.tlerma.com/
E-mail: (e-mail address removed)

Hi Colin,

The HP dv8100cto is a laptop. The laptop has an ExpressCard slot on it.
I connected an eSATA drive to the ExpressCard and when I hit [ESC] on
boot to chose my boot device, the eSATA drive showed up on the list.

If I disconnect the drive but leave the ExpressCard in the slot, the
BIOS does not even show that 'if' a device were connected to the card
that I could boot from it.

If I shut-down the computer and connect the eSATA drive then enter the
BIOS setup, the eSATA drive shows up as a hard disk and shows up as a
drive that can be booted from.

I carry a number of empty cases so that I can pull a drive from a
clients machine and work on it thru my laptop.

--

C.Joseph Drayton, Ph.D. AS&T

CSD Computer Services
Web site: http://csdcs.tlerma.com/
E-mail: (e-mail address removed)

 

[Anna]

I miss understood then. I thought the OP needed to be able to run
multiple OSes, and assumed that the easiest way would be with an
external drive. Since I spend most of my time in the field, having to
carry external devices to me is a last resort.

If the OP doesn't mind having to use an external drive, I can verify
that the eSATA drive is an option. I tested it on my HP dv8100cto and
when the card is installe and connect to a drive, if I hit [ESC] on
boot, I am given the option to boot from the external drive. Its
interesting, because if you go into the BIOS, it doesn't list that
drive unless it is physically connected.

I found it by accident when I was testing the drive and did a reboot
and wanted to boot from the CD and saw the drive listed as a possible
boot device.
--
C.Joseph Drayton, Ph.D. AS&T

CSD Computer Services
Web site: http://csdcs.tlerma.com/
E-mail: (e-mail address removed)

c.Joseph...
Could you clarify your above comment?
(And we are talking about the XP OS here, right?)

You're working with a HP dv8100 notebook. You say "...when the card is
installe(d) and connect(ed) to a drive, if I hit [ESC] on boot, I am given
the option to boot from the external drive."

Could you "flesh" that out a bit?

What "card"? You're referring to an ExpressCard with one or more eSATA
ports?

If so, could you provide the make/model of that device?

At what point do you press the [ESC] key during the bootup process?

And when you do this a menu displays displaying a listing of the bootable
devices in your laptop, one of which is the SATA external HDD you've
connected to the ExpressCard eSATA device? Is the external SATA HDD you've
connected a bare drive or is it in a SATA external enclosure?

And you can then select that bootable SATA HDD from the list and the system
will boot to it? Works every time?

Do you know whether this is an integrated HP function or is it possible this
capability was provided by the driver disk accompanying the CardBus device?

Is there any info re the above in the HP User Manual?
Anna

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Have you actually tried to boot with an OS on the eSATA external drive?

This is a useful piece of information. The problem is specifically
about how to boot from an eSATA drive via an ExpressCard SATA
connector on a laptop. Everyone is clear that it works with eSATA
ports on desktops.

Colin Barnhorst wrote:

Joe, the issue isn't about how to multiboot. It is about how to
do it on a laptop with an external drive and the resulting
discussion is about problems of accomplishing that with an
ExpressCard eSATA port.

I am a software developer, and I found the simplest solution is
to have a multi-OS system.

The primary hard disk in my laptop (I have 2 hard disk),
contains Windows2000pe, WindowsXPpe and Ubuntu.

Setting up a multi-OS system is pretty straight forward so long
as you do them in the right order. In my case, I wiped the disk
then created a partition for Windows2000pe. Then I created the
next partition and installed WindowsXPpe then I used a Ubuntu
live CD to install Linux.

Note that when installing multiple Windows, it is best to start
with the oldest Windows first and work forward. Then Install
any other OS.

When I boot, I get the grub menu and choose Windows. I then get
the Windows boot-loader where I can choose between
Windows2000pe, WindowsXPpe and the recovery console.

I do most of my coding from within WindowsXPpe. Since my apps
are designed to run under all Windows (except for Vista), I
also run VirtualPC and have VMs on the secondary drive for all
flavors of Windows.

If you end up installing a version of Linux, be careful since
some updates will reset your 'lilo' or 'grub' and you will lose
access to your Windows partitions. It can be easily fixed, so
long as you keep a LiveCD handy and remember the four commands
that allow you to re-write the grub or lilo config file.

One last word. I have been playing with Linux more, but lets
face it, it is a Windows world and will be for the foreseeable
future, so I have set up VMWare's VMPlayer under Linux to use
the native Windows partition rather than a virtual drive.

--
C.Joseph Drayton, Ph.D. AS&T

CSD Computer Services
Web site: http://csdcs.tlerma.com/
E-mail: (e-mail address removed)

I miss understood then. I thought the OP needed to be able to run
multiple OSes, and assumed that the easiest way would be with an
external drive. Since I spend most of my time in the field, having
to carry external devices to me is a last resort.

If the OP doesn't mind having to use an external drive, I can verify
that the eSATA drive is an option. I tested it on my HP dv8100cto
and when the card is installe and connect to a drive, if I hit
[ESC] on boot, I am given the option to boot from the external
drive. Its interesting, because if you go into the BIOS, it doesn't
list that drive unless it is physically connected.

I found it by accident when I was testing the drive and did a reboot
and wanted to boot from the CD and saw the drive listed as a
possible boot device.

--
C.Joseph Drayton, Ph.D. AS&T

CSD Computer Services
Web site: http://csdcs.tlerma.com/
E-mail: (e-mail address removed)

Hi Colin,

The HP dv8100cto is a laptop. The laptop has an ExpressCard slot on it.
I connected an eSATA drive to the ExpressCard and when I hit [ESC] on
boot to chose my boot device, the eSATA drive showed up on the list.

If I disconnect the drive but leave the ExpressCard in the slot, the
BIOS does not even show that 'if' a device were connected to the card
that I could boot from it.

If I shut-down the computer and connect the eSATA drive then enter the
BIOS setup, the eSATA drive shows up as a hard disk and shows up as a
drive that can be booted from.

I carry a number of empty cases so that I can pull a drive from a
clients machine and work on it thru my laptop.

--

C.Joseph Drayton, Ph.D. AS&T

CSD Computer Services
Web site: http://csdcs.tlerma.com/
E-mail: (e-mail address removed)

 

[Timothy Daniels]

The HP dv8100cto is a laptop. The laptop has an
ExpressCard slot on it. I connected an eSATA drive
to the ExpressCard and when I hit [ESC] on boot to
chose my boot device, the eSATA drive showed up
on the list.
... the eSATA drive shows up as a hard disk and
shows up as a drive that can be booted from.

And can you, indeed, boot from it?

*TimDaniels*

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Tim (& Colin):
The SIIG's technician report that the ExpressCard is not a bootable
device (at least with respect to the XP OS) parallels our own exper-
ience with these devices. I recall working with a Vantec model and
some no-name device and perhaps one or two others whose make/
model I can't recall (it may very well have been a SIIG model) and
the results have always been the same, i.e., inability to boot from a
cloned copy of the XP OS on the ExpressCard. And we long ago
came to the conclusion that this was not possible with the CardBus (PCMCIA)
type of device.

In any event the device - be it ExpressCard or CardBus - did not
appear in the boot priority order of any motherboard we've used,
the system obviously not detecting it as a bootable device.

We've been in touch with the SATA-IO organization -
http://www.serialata.org/ - re eSATA ExpressCard boot capability
but have not received any definitive info from that source re this issue.
Anna

I just got off the phone with Dell's Small Business Tech Support,
and the technician said that although there is no company documentation
on booting a laptop using an external SATA drive connected via an
eSATA ExpressCard, one of his colleagues tried it with an XPS laptop,
and though he could access the external hard drive, he couldn't get the
system to boot from it. The impression that I get from reading the User
Manuals on Dell's website is that the XPS line's BIOS is pretty well
representative of Dell's late model laptops, and so booting from a
SATA hard drive via an eSATA ExpressCard adapter is probably a
rare laptop capability. Could someone also call HP about this?

*TimDaniels*

 

[C.Joseph S. Drayton]

Have you actually tried to boot with an OS on the eSATA external
drive?

This is a useful piece of information. The problem is
specifically about how to boot from an eSATA drive via an
ExpressCard SATA connector on a laptop. Everyone is clear that
it works with eSATA ports on desktops.

Colin Barnhorst wrote:

Joe, the issue isn't about how to multiboot. It is about how
to do it on a laptop with an external drive and the resulting
discussion is about problems of accomplishing that with an
ExpressCard eSATA port.

I am a software developer, and I found the simplest
solution is to have a multi-OS system.

The primary hard disk in my laptop (I have 2 hard disk),
contains Windows2000pe, WindowsXPpe and Ubuntu.

Setting up a multi-OS system is pretty straight forward so
long as you do them in the right order. In my case, I wiped
the disk then created a partition for Windows2000pe. Then I
created the next partition and installed WindowsXPpe then I
used a Ubuntu live CD to install Linux.

Note that when installing multiple Windows, it is best to
start with the oldest Windows first and work forward. Then
Install any other OS.

When I boot, I get the grub menu and choose Windows. I then
get the Windows boot-loader where I can choose between
Windows2000pe, WindowsXPpe and the recovery console.

I do most of my coding from within WindowsXPpe. Since my
apps are designed to run under all Windows (except for
Vista), I also run VirtualPC and have VMs on the secondary
drive for all flavors of Windows.

If you end up installing a version of Linux, be careful
since some updates will reset your 'lilo' or 'grub' and you
will lose access to your Windows partitions. It can be
easily fixed, so long as you keep a LiveCD handy and
remember the four commands that allow you to re-write the
grub or lilo config file.

One last word. I have been playing with Linux more, but lets
face it, it is a Windows world and will be for the
foreseeable future, so I have set up VMWare's VMPlayer
under Linux to use the native Windows partition rather than
a virtual drive.

--
C.Joseph Drayton, Ph.D. AS&T

CSD Computer Services
Web site: http://csdcs.tlerma.com/
E-mail: (e-mail address removed)

I miss understood then. I thought the OP needed to be able to
run multiple OSes, and assumed that the easiest way would be
with an external drive. Since I spend most of my time in the
field, having to carry external devices to me is a last resort.

If the OP doesn't mind having to use an external drive, I can
verify that the eSATA drive is an option. I tested it on my HP
dv8100cto and when the card is installe and connect to a drive,
if I hit [ESC] on boot, I am given the option to boot from the
external drive. Its interesting, because if you go into the
BIOS, it doesn't list that drive unless it is physically
connected.

I found it by accident when I was testing the drive and did a
reboot and wanted to boot from the CD and saw the drive listed
as a possible boot device.

--
C.Joseph Drayton, Ph.D. AS&T

CSD Computer Services
Web site: http://csdcs.tlerma.com/
E-mail: (e-mail address removed)

Hi Colin,

The HP dv8100cto is a laptop. The laptop has an ExpressCard slot on
it. I connected an eSATA drive to the ExpressCard and when I hit
[ESC] on boot to chose my boot device, the eSATA drive showed up on
the list.

If I disconnect the drive but leave the ExpressCard in the slot, the
BIOS does not even show that 'if' a device were connected to the
card that I could boot from it.

If I shut-down the computer and connect the eSATA drive then enter
the BIOS setup, the eSATA drive shows up as a hard disk and shows
up as a drive that can be booted from.

I carry a number of empty cases so that I can pull a drive from a
clients machine and work on it thru my laptop.

--
C.Joseph Drayton, Ph.D. AS&T

CSD Computer Services
Web site: http://csdcs.tlerma.com/
E-mail: (e-mail address removed)

Hi Colin,

I cloned my Windows2000pe to the eSATA and it worked. I am sure because
I deactivated the Windows2000pe prtition on my primary hard disk to
assure that the boot was occurring from the eSATA.

--

C.Joseph Drayton, Ph.D. AS&T

CSD Computer Services
Web site: http://csdcs.tlerma.com/
E-mail: (e-mail address removed)