IE7 protected mode

G

Guest

IE7 in Vista RTM build 6.6000 shows in its status bar “Internet | Protected
Mode Offâ€, even though I have protected mode enabled (which it is anyway by
default) as confirmed in Internet Tools | Security.

Now then, which one am I to trust/believe, the status bar message or the
Tools | Security checked settings?

Or is this just another bug in a buggy OS/browser??

Is there another way to confirm whether protected mode is on or of?

Any help and light on this one would be much appreciated.
 
S

Synapse Syndrome

akita said:
IE7 in Vista RTM build 6.6000 shows in its status bar “Internet |
Protected
Mode Offâ€, even though I have protected mode enabled (which it is anyway
by
default) as confirmed in Internet Tools | Security.

Now then, which one am I to trust/believe, the status bar message or the
Tools | Security checked settings?

Or is this just another bug in a buggy OS/browser??

Is there another way to confirm whether protected mode is on or of?

Any help and light on this one would be much appreciated.


Have you disabled UAC?

ss.
 
E

Erik Funkenbusch

IE7 in Vista RTM build 6.6000 shows in its status bar ´Internet | Protected
Mode Off¡, even though I have protected mode enabled (which it is anyway by
default) as confirmed in Internet Tools | Security.

Most likely you turned off UAC. Protected Mode requires UAC to work.
Now then, which one am I to trust/believe, the status bar message or the
Tools | Security checked settings?

Or is this just another bug in a buggy OS/browser??

No, it's a misunderstanding on your part.
Is there another way to confirm whether protected mode is on or of?

If it says it's off, it's off.
 
R

Rick Rogers

Hi,

No, there isn't. It's either on or off. In normal use, UAC should not
interfere with the user's operation of the system. The "annoyance" is when
one initially customizes the system and installs their software. Disabling
it removes much of the security functionality built into the system and can
potentially expose the machine to infection and/or attack, as well as the
myriad of self installing spy/ad applications.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP

Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
 
B

Beck

akita said:
I see, urgh, this present UAC implementation is so annoying!

OK then, is there a way to turn UAC on in a limited way, so it ONLY, and
only, controls / enables Protected Mode in IE7?

UAC isn't too much of a pain. In my experience it only really happens when
installing things and I am not going to do that every day.
People moaned about Windows security for years and when they get better
security they don't like it. lol
Seriously though you should really use it and get used to it, its there for
a reason and really once you get used to it there it won't impact your daily
computing at all :)
 
T

Troy McClure

its a shame that you, and others so badly confuse the term "intrusive" with
a function that is only putting some control back into the users hands. a
box that pops up to warn me that something is installing, and asks me if im
aware and want to allow it is NOT intrusive, its informational, and gives
the user a CHOICE.

when you leave your house do you manually lock the door? a choice, right? or
do you just walk out and assume someone else will take care of it for you?
and even if it could be automated, wouldnt you still turn around and make
sure it was locked? most of us would.

stop being so lazy and helpless, and instead of bitching about change,
embrace it
 
W

William

It is better that UAC reside in the OS rather than in the applications. If every application had its own UAC, then we are back to square one for security.

Did it ever occur to you that some of the things that malware does is copy, paste, move, and delete things. What is more annoying, taking a couple of seconds to answer a confirmation prompt, or spending hours cleaning an infected computer?

Somehow I find your claims to be a lecturer at the University level to be hardly credible. You bitched and complained, like so many teenaged girls when they found out that George Michael was gay, about how inconvenient it is to answer some security prompts and them, like some freaking dumbass, turn off UAC and wonder why IE7 does not run in protected mode.


UAC isn't too much of a pain. In my experience it only really happens when
installing things and I am not going to do that every day.
People moaned about Windows security for years and when they get better
security they don't like it. lol
Seriously though you should really use it and get used to it, its there for
a reason and really once you get used to it there it won't impact your daily
computing at all :)

OK, firstly: BETTER security would be OK and very welcome indeed; but
INVASIVE security measures are annoying and, as history has shown time and
time again, users will dump them sooner or later! Microsoft should have
learned that one by now!

With Vista out of the box installed, UAC is throwing up warning and/or
confirmation windows left, right and centre, even for simple every-day things
like copy, move, paste and delete. Now that level of invasiveness is
downright stupid since it will piss off most users rather sooner than later!

I have turned UAC off simply because I couldn’t find a way to customize it.
The help files are a tad obscure, and on-line help is next to useless. Oh,
before someone shoots his/her mouth off, I’m no dumb-ass newbie if it comes
to OS’s or software or programming, for that matter. In fact I’m lecturing
various IT strands at university level.

Anyway, don’t get me wrong, I do agree that UAC is a right step in the right
direction, but it needs to be far less intrusive than in its present
incarnation – as admitted pretty much by MS (the public release due out at
end of Jan / early Feb apparently will have a less intrusive / modified
implementation of UAC).

Another thing: without more detailed (and easily accessed) explanation,
users will be left wondering what the hell UAC is doing, or good for. Again,
history has shown that users will be far more likely to dump stuff that they
don’t understand, particularly if it gets in the way of every-day work. MS
needs to work a hell of a lot harder on explaining UAC properly and detailed,
and in layman’s terms.

Oh, and BTW, why should I get used to something that forces me to click on
two, sometimes three, extra warning dialogs for even simple tasks such as
copy, move, cut and paste? That’s a downright stupid suggestion and
implementation of an otherwise good idea!

Lastly, and getting back to my initial question in this thread, if
‘Protected Mode’ in IE7 is such a good thing – of which I am as yet not 100%
convinced due to a lack of more detailed information – why pack it together
with UAC instead of implementing it directly into IE7 (where it belongs)?
Again, this present implementation seems more like an afterthought than a
proper initially planned part of the programming structure. Then again,
proper and strategic system analysing has never appeared to be a Redmond
programming hallmark.

It’s a shame really. I DO like Vista and much applaud Microsoft’s belated
approach towards more inbuilt security as well as other measures that are
part of Vista (though it remains a crying shame that so many initially
planned great innovations of Longhorn have simply be dumped, possibly due to
a lack of competence). Still, Vista could be great, and could have been a
true alternative to XP-SP2. However, the more I use Vista, the more it
appears to be a set of great ideas bundled together in a rather odd,
confusing and conflicting manner; rather restricting the user in too many
ways (almost presuming all users are little moron children) than offering an
intuitive interface that allows free workflow without constant interruptions
and restrictions.

This, amongst other issues with the current crop of Vista, will
unfortunately very much delay a broad and rapid market penetration. As it
stands at present, there is very, very little incentive for users who are
running a well configured and secured XP-SP2 setup to take the plunge and
give Vista the chance it should deserve. Many users will wait for Vista SP1 –
even if this will take 12-18 months as presently expected - preferring to sit
on the sidelines to see how this Vista will develop; and how soon software
and driver vendors will recode products to allow for full Vista
compatibility, which even now remains rather limited.

Issues like the badly implemented firewall and UAC will not help sales, nor
inspire the trust in Vista that it should deserve

The claimed out-of-the box and all-secure Vista experience remains elusive,
or at the least crippling the user’s fun experience.
 
B

Beck

akita said:
OK, firstly: BETTER security would be OK and very welcome indeed; but
INVASIVE security measures are annoying and, as history has shown time and
time again, users will dump them sooner or later! Microsoft should have
learned that one by now!

With Vista out of the box installed, UAC is throwing up warning and/or
confirmation windows left, right and centre, even for simple every-day
things
like copy, move, paste and delete. Now that level of invasiveness is
downright stupid since it will piss off most users rather sooner than
later!

I have certainly not come across a single instance of having UAC on copyng
or deleting files or anything like that. The only times I have had it is on
installing programs and the first time I wanted to access a networked PC.
 
T

Troy McClure

actually, having UAC turned off WILL cause protected mode to display as
"off" in the IE7 status bar, regardless of your IE settings... i just tested
this... Vista Business RTM. maybe its time for you and everyone else who are
having problems to stop using betas? seems like a waste troubleshooting
issues in betas and rc's when the rtm is available... and will soon be
available to the rest of the public
 
T

Troy McClure

that goes for all of us... apparently this guy does some weird copying and
pasting that causes UAC to popup "several" times... hhmmmmm
 
D

David Hearn

Beck said:
I have certainly not come across a single instance of having UAC on
copyng or deleting files or anything like that. The only times I have
had it is on installing programs and the first time I wanted to access a
networked PC.

I think I have seen a UAC prompt when deleting a shortcut/file or
something - but it was (I think) a file which I didn't have permission
to delete. It did pop up a couple of dialogs:

1.) Explorer - 'Are you sure you want to delete'
2.) Explorer - 'You do not have permission to delete this file - do you
want to elevate to Admin to delete it?' (shield icon shown on OK)
3.) UAC prompt - now asks for confirmation (or password) for Admin
elevation.

In this case, I can understand the reason for 3 steps. Firstly, it
wants to check you're sure you want to delete. It then tries, but says
you can't due to insufficient privileges, so asks whether you want to
elevate. Finally, the standard UAC prompt comes up to enter your
credentials etc.

That's the worst case I've seen - but is rare and wasn't a problem.

As an example of it being good - I went to some website linked via a
google search on Vista stuff (a number of results at the same time via
tabs) and then the UAC prompt appeared asking for permission for IE to
install some control or something. I didn't know what it was (or which
window it was!) so I clicked no.

I think UAC is okay in the RTM build. Works fine for what it's intended
to do.

D
 
R

Richard Urban

Less intrusive equates to less protection.

I will take it as it is, thank you!

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 
S

Synapse Syndrome

akita said:
I see, urgh, this present UAC implementation is so annoying!

OK then, is there a way to turn UAC on in a limited way, so it ONLY, and
only, controls / enables Protected Mode in IE7?


If you do what is in this link, UAC still works, and IE7 runs in protected
mode. You still get some high security UAC prompts, but most of them are
disabled.

http://www.tweakvista.eu/show_tweak.php?tweak=84

ss.
 
S

Synapse Syndrome

Rick Rogers said:
Hi,

No, there isn't. It's either on or off. In normal use, UAC should not
interfere with the user's operation of the system. The "annoyance" is when
one initially customizes the system and installs their software. Disabling
it removes much of the security functionality built into the system and
can potentially expose the machine to infection and/or attack, as well as
the myriad of self installing spy/ad applications.


But there are a variety of UAC settings in secpol.msc

ss.
 
J

Jimmy Brush

Hello,

You mentioned a few times that you receive UAC warnings for copying and
pasting. If I may ask, did you upgrade from XP, dual boot from XP, or have a
seperate data disk that contains most of the files/folders that you work
with?

You are receiving UAC prompts because of the security that was set up on
these files from Windows XP. If you change permissions on these files to
give either your specific username or the users group the amount of access
you wish to have without being prompted, then your UAC woes will end :).

However, if you are referring to copying/pasting to system folders, then
disregard.



- JB
Microsoft MVP - Windows Shell/User

Windows Vista Support Faq
http://www.jimmah.com/vista/
 
E

Erik Funkenbusch

I have certainly not come across a single instance of having UAC on copyng
or deleting files or anything like that. The only times I have had it is on
installing programs and the first time I wanted to access a networked PC.

This is, as are most things, user error. Or rather, users determined to
use the computer in a way contrary to the security design. The messages
he's talking about occur when trying to copy files outside of your Users
folder, such as creating directories and files at the root level. This
isn't the way things should be used anymore, nor is it the way that OS's
like Linux do things.

One of the reasons that the "Documents and Settings" directory was thrown
away for the Users directory is so that it's easier to type, and users will
be less inclined to use the root for everything. Having adequate and
usable security means cordoning off everything the user shouldn't be
playing with on a daily basis, and that's why the Users profile folder
exists.
 
M

MICHAEL

I agree. I usually don't discuss this issue any longer-
too many folks in this forum actually believe that Microsoft
knows what is best for them, or, get too defensive if you even
mention the incontinence of UAC. Lawd have mercy if you
criticize Microsoft in these groups. You've got your haters
and your lovers in these forums, and some are just trolling haters.
But, some of the goober lovers can be just as bad.

I don't like UAC in its present form, and I have turned it off.
I'll take my chances. I did just fine with XP for years and
never had my systems compromised. Even got through
the early years of Windows without any viral excitement.

I tried to get along with it... it's an impediment to my work
flow- obnoxiously overbearing. I'm about tired of hearing
"it's for your own good", I'll decide that.

If you like it, leave it on... you don't, turn it off. The world
didn't end when it wasn't around, and I think it won't this time
either.

If I were to take bets- many users are going to turn it off,
and Microsoft will have not accomplished much of anything.
Unless, they provide some customization of UAC.


-Michael
 
S

Synapse Syndrome

MICHAEL said:
Correction:

"mention the *inconvenience* of UAC"


I think incontinence is more apt.

I have the same opinion on this matter. The amount of times I have ever had
a malware infection over seven years of using Windows NT can be counted on
one hand. In around 2001 I got this weird IE toolbar thing that was hard to
get rid of, and I got into using Spybot and Adaware for a while, but gave up
on that stuff after they only found 'tracking cookies' for a few months.

I know many people that get a lot of problems with malware in XP, and I
can't imagine how they achieve this. If you find yourself in that situation
you should look at WHY this is happening and change your behaviour.

All I use is AV software and a HOSTS file. Windows Defender is turned off,
and I may run a very occasional Ewido online scan - but it never finds
anything.

http://www.ewido.net/en/onlinescan/

ss.
 
M

MICHAEL

Synapse Syndrome said:
I think incontinence is more apt.

I have the same opinion on this matter. The amount of times I have ever had a malware
infection over seven years of using Windows NT can be counted on one hand. In around 2001 I
got this weird IE toolbar thing that was hard to get rid of, and I got into using Spybot and
Adaware for a while, but gave up on that stuff after they only found 'tracking cookies' for a
few months.

I know many people that get a lot of problems with malware in XP, and I can't imagine how
they achieve this. If you find yourself in that situation you should look at WHY this is
happening and change your behaviour.

All I use is AV software and a HOSTS file. Windows Defender is turned off, and I may run a
very occasional Ewido online scan - but it never finds anything.

http://www.ewido.net/en/onlinescan/

I had the pleasure while testing RC2 of trading email correspondences
back and forth with an employee of Microsoft and an MVP. We were
discussing BitLocker and the protection it provided Vista's restore points.
My opinion had actually been sought out by this Microsoft employee, the
MVP was the one who first contacted me. I was pleasantly surprised. We
exchanged several emails. Anyway, during one of the emails, I was asked
if I had UAC on, I said no and asked if anyone actually did. *Both* replied
*no* with winking smiley faces. Moral of the story; when talking in open about
UAC, the official word will always be *Keep it on*. But, in practice, by many
of those giving that advice, it will be- Do as we say, not as we do.

I was never sworn to secrecy, but I will not reveal any names, so don't ask.
But, I was very happy that my opinion/experience was taken into account.
Even though, I had been talking about it since Beta2.


Take care,

Michael
 

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