I think I killed my 9800 Pro

[GTX_SlotCar]

I have a Sapphire 9800Pro which I got in Jan or Feb. Last night I decided to
take off the VGA Silencer and clean it out. Everything went smoothly. I put
some new AS5 on the gpu, put it together, popped it back into the
motherboard (Abit AI7) and it wouldn't post (stuck on error code 25). After
reseating it several times and clearing the bios, I decided to put the stock
HSF back on. Still wouldn't post. I took my old nVidia Ti4400 out of the
kids' computer and tried that. It worked fine. Tried the 9800 in their
computer and got one long and 2 short beeps (video card problem). (yes, I
connected the power cord to the 9800)
I'm not a novice; done this 100's of times and built dozens of computers.
I've pretty much ruled out a static electricity mishap and there's no damage
to the card. The gpu doesn't appear to have cracked from reinstalling the
VGA Silencer.

I'm desperately looking for something simple that I may have overlooked, so
if any of you gents have any ideas, I'd like to hear them.

The card is under warranty, but I've installed ramsinks. I'm not sure how
that will affect it.
I really don't want to buy a new card and haven't really kept up on what's
hot now. I don't have a PCI2 slot, so a new one would have to be AGP. I'm
not brand loyal. Between work and home, I have 1 nVidia and 2 ATI cards. I
buy whatever seems right at the time. From what little I know about the
current state of the art cards, maybe a 6800? I hate researching something
for a rushed purchase. This is really depressing.

Gary

 

[Minotaur]

I have a Sapphire 9800Pro which I got in Jan or Feb. Last night I decided to
take off the VGA Silencer and clean it out. Everything went smoothly. I put
some new AS5 on the gpu, put it together, popped it back into the
motherboard (Abit AI7) and it wouldn't post (stuck on error code 25). After
reseating it several times and clearing the bios, I decided to put the stock
HSF back on. Still wouldn't post. I took my old nVidia Ti4400 out of the
kids' computer and tried that. It worked fine. Tried the 9800 in their
computer and got one long and 2 short beeps (video card problem). (yes, I
connected the power cord to the 9800)
I'm not a novice; done this 100's of times and built dozens of computers.
I've pretty much ruled out a static electricity mishap and there's no damage
to the card. The gpu doesn't appear to have cracked from reinstalling the
VGA Silencer.

I'm desperately looking for something simple that I may have overlooked, so
if any of you gents have any ideas, I'd like to hear them.

The card is under warranty, but I've installed ramsinks. I'm not sure how
that will affect it.
I really don't want to buy a new card and haven't really kept up on what's
hot now. I don't have a PCI2 slot, so a new one would have to be AGP. I'm
not brand loyal. Between work and home, I have 1 nVidia and 2 ATI cards. I
buy whatever seems right at the time. From what little I know about the
current state of the art cards, maybe a 6800? I hate researching something
for a rushed purchase. This is really depressing.

Gary

It was probably because of the shim protecting the GPU core. It can be
thick and the AS is too thin, basicaly creating a gap.
RTM the card, it should be ok if it still looks OK...
Get a 6800GT or at least a X800XT, IMHO the X800Pro dosn't cut it

Mino

 

[GTX_SlotCar]

It was probably because of the shim protecting the GPU core. It can be

thick and the AS is too thin, basicaly creating a gap.
RTM the card, it should be ok if it still looks OK...
Get a 6800GT or at least a X800XT, IMHO the X800Pro dosn't cut it

Mino

On mine, the shim and gpu are just about the same height. I put a straight
edge on it while the Silencer was off and one side of the gpu was flush with
the shim and the other was about 1/2 the thickness of a piece of paper (2 to
3 mils) below it. When I took the Silencer off to put the stock HSF back on,
there was a nice spread of AS5 on the gpu.

I appreciate the reply.

I'll probably have to RMA it and hope for the best. I can't go 4 weeks
without a card, though, so I'll have to get something else. When this one
comes back it can go in my kids' computer.

The other cards I'm considering are the MSI 9800Pro or a 6800 for $90 more.
I can't spend $400 + for a video card right now. I wish I could find some
reviews comparing the 9800Pro and 6800 (non GT or U) to see if the
performance gain is worth the 90 bucks.

Gary

 

[Aki Peltola]

RTM the card, it should be ok if it still looks OK...

So additional ramsinks installed by user don't
affect warranty? I strongly doubt that.

I believe that the card is scrap metal and nothing
can be done about it.

 

[GTX_SlotCar]

So additional ramsinks installed by user don't

affect warranty? I strongly doubt that.
I believe that the card is scrap metal and nothing
can be done about it.

Gee, I'm depressed and looking for pity (if I can't find a cure). Couldn't
you at least say "I think you're screwed, but I mean that in the nicest
possible way." ??

It probably will affect the warranty, but I can try. The ramsinks are black
and match the style of the one chipsink that was already on the card. ATI
could look at it and see that there's no way they could harm the card, or
they may not even notice (since the board is clean). It depends on how much
they actually look at it before throwing it in the trashcan.

Gary

 

[Kendt Eklund]

I have a Sapphire 9800Pro which I got in Jan or Feb. Last night I decided to
take off the VGA Silencer and clean it out. Everything went smoothly. I put
some new AS5 on the gpu, put it together, popped it back into the
motherboard (Abit AI7) and it wouldn't post (stuck on error code 25). After
reseating it several times and clearing the bios, I decided to put the stock
HSF back on. Still wouldn't post. I took my old nVidia Ti4400 out of the
kids' computer and tried that. It worked fine. Tried the 9800 in their
computer and got one long and 2 short beeps (video card problem). (yes, I
connected the power cord to the 9800)
I'm not a novice; done this 100's of times and built dozens of computers.
I've pretty much ruled out a static electricity mishap and there's no damage
to the card. The gpu doesn't appear to have cracked from reinstalling the
VGA Silencer.

I'm desperately looking for something simple that I may have overlooked, so
if any of you gents have any ideas, I'd like to hear them.

The card is under warranty, but I've installed ramsinks. I'm not sure how
that will affect it.
I really don't want to buy a new card and haven't really kept up on what's
hot now. I don't have a PCI2 slot, so a new one would have to be AGP. I'm
not brand loyal. Between work and home, I have 1 nVidia and 2 ATI cards. I
buy whatever seems right at the time. From what little I know about the
current state of the art cards, maybe a 6800? I hate researching something
for a rushed purchase. This is really depressing.

Gary

AS5 conducts electricity, right? Any chance there's a stray smear on
the board somewhere? One of the reasons I use Ceramique.

Good luck!
Kendt

PS - 6800GT seems to be the best bang for the buck of the new gen
cards, but FWIU the ATI's still stomp all over them at the highest
res/AA/AF settings. Right now seems a bad time to buy - you can bet
the rush to upgrade for Doom3 will keep card prices high for a bit.

 

[RonK]

"I think you're screwed"

Gee, I'm depressed and looking for pity (if I can't find a cure). Couldn't
you at least say "I think you're screwed, but I mean that in the nicest
possible way." ??

It probably will affect the warranty, but I can try. The ramsinks are black
and match the style of the one chipsink that was already on the card. ATI
could look at it and see that there's no way they could harm the card, or
they may not even notice (since the board is clean). It depends on how much
they actually look at it before throwing it in the trashcan.

Gary

 

[texterted]

It probably will affect the warranty, but I can try. The ramsinks are
black

and match the style of the one chipsink that was already on the card. ATI
could look at it and see that there's no way they could harm the card, or
they may not even notice (since the board is clean). It depends on how much
they actually look at it before throwing it in the trashcan.

Gary

I sympathise with you mate...
I hate it when that sort of thing happens... you could
try explaining that you had "hoped" to prolong the life
of the card by fitting the ramsinks... as you are on a tight
budget... etc, etc.
Send along a picture of the kids, looking hungry and in their
oldest clothes, for extra evidence!
Best of luck and I hope you get fixed up ok...
cheers
Ted

 

[Ed Light]

geforce 6600 will be announced in a week or two.


--
Ed Light

Smiley :-/
MS Smiley :-\

Send spam to the FTC at
(e-mail address removed)
Thanks, robots.

 

[Ed Light]

AS5 conducts electricity, right? Any chance there's a stray smear on

the board somewhere? One of the reasons I use Ceramique.

And you could use Arctic Alumina. Cheap, runs 1C hotter than Silver, comes
off easily.


--
Ed Light

Smiley :-/
MS Smiley :-\

Send spam to the FTC at
(e-mail address removed)
Thanks, robots.

 

[Mustafa Krap]

Check the area around the molex ower connector, there should be an IC and
some capacitors which tend to break very easily. I had the same problem with
my first 9800 pro and it turned out the IC had a couple of broken legs which
I think I broke when I was trying to push the power connector in. Luckily I
was still able to return it for a replacement. If you do have to return it
to ATI then I think you'll be fine with the added heatsinks as long as they
don't look bodged.

Rob.

 

[texterted]

Oh btw...

Did you try the other connector (DVi) using an adapter
or whatever.... just in case its an output that kapput?

Here's hoping...
cheers
Ted

 

[Aki Peltola]

Gee, I'm depressed and looking for pity (if I can't find a cure).
Couldn't you at least say "I think you're screwed, but I mean
that in the nicest possible way." ??

I think you're screwed, but I mean that in the nicest
possible way.

It probably will affect the warranty, but I can try.

Of course you can always Try but don't be too surprised
if so called "boomerang effect" will occur.

 

[patrickp]

I have a Sapphire 9800Pro which I got in Jan or Feb. Last night I decided to
take off the VGA Silencer and clean it out. Everything went smoothly. I put
some new AS5 on the gpu, put it together, popped it back into the
motherboard (Abit AI7) and it wouldn't post (stuck on error code 25). After
reseating it several times and clearing the bios, I decided to put the stock
HSF back on. Still wouldn't post. I took my old nVidia Ti4400 out of the
kids' computer and tried that. It worked fine. Tried the 9800 in their
computer and got one long and 2 short beeps (video card problem). (yes, I
connected the power cord to the 9800)
I'm not a novice; done this 100's of times and built dozens of computers.
I've pretty much ruled out a static electricity mishap and there's no damage
to the card. The gpu doesn't appear to have cracked from reinstalling the
VGA Silencer.

I'm desperately looking for something simple that I may have overlooked, so
if any of you gents have any ideas, I'd like to hear them.

The card is under warranty, but I've installed ramsinks. I'm not sure how
that will affect it.
I really don't want to buy a new card and haven't really kept up on what's
hot now. I don't have a PCI2 slot, so a new one would have to be AGP. I'm
not brand loyal. Between work and home, I have 1 nVidia and 2 ATI cards. I
buy whatever seems right at the time. From what little I know about the
current state of the art cards, maybe a 6800? I hate researching something
for a rushed purchase. This is really depressing.

Gary

Just a long shot, Gary, but are you sure you didn't put too much
Arctic Silver on? It's supposed to be electrically non-conductive,
but I believe that in practice it can be slightly conductive - get any
around any exposed connections and it could cause a fault.

patrickp

(e-mail address removed) - take five to email me

 

[patrickp]

AS5 conducts electricity, right? Any chance there's a stray smear on
the board somewhere? One of the reasons I use Ceramique.

Good luck!
Kendt

PS - 6800GT seems to be the best bang for the buck of the new gen
cards, but FWIU the ATI's still stomp all over them at the highest
res/AA/AF settings. Right now seems a bad time to buy - you can bet
the rush to upgrade for Doom3 will keep card prices high for a bit.

Good grief, Kendt! I just posted the same idea, only to notice as soon
as I'd hit the send icon that you'd already done so.

I prefer to use Artic Silver, but I'm always careful to use minimal
amounts and to avoid spreading it where it didn't oughta go!

Sorry about that.

patrickp

(e-mail address removed) - take five to email me

 

[Sleepy]

I have a Sapphire 9800Pro which I got in Jan or Feb. Last night I decided to
take off the VGA Silencer and clean it out. Everything went smoothly. I put
some new AS5 on the gpu, put it together, popped it back into the
motherboard (Abit AI7) and it wouldn't post (stuck on error code 25). After
reseating it several times and clearing the bios, I decided to put the stock
HSF back on. Still wouldn't post. I took my old nVidia Ti4400 out of the
kids' computer and tried that. It worked fine. Tried the 9800 in their
computer and got one long and 2 short beeps (video card problem). (yes, I
connected the power cord to the 9800)
I'm not a novice; done this 100's of times and built dozens of computers.
I've pretty much ruled out a static electricity mishap and there's no damage
to the card. The gpu doesn't appear to have cracked from reinstalling the
VGA Silencer.

I'm desperately looking for something simple that I may have overlooked, so
if any of you gents have any ideas, I'd like to hear them.

The card is under warranty, but I've installed ramsinks. I'm not sure how
that will affect it.
I really don't want to buy a new card and haven't really kept up on what's
hot now. I don't have a PCI2 slot, so a new one would have to be AGP. I'm
not brand loyal. Between work and home, I have 1 nVidia and 2 ATI cards. I
buy whatever seems right at the time. From what little I know about the
current state of the art cards, maybe a 6800? I hate researching something
for a rushed purchase. This is really depressing.

Gary

You didnt accidentally smear any thermal paste on the
copper connectors at the bottom of the card did you?
I did that when refurbing a Voodoo3 once and the tiniest smear of paste
stopped the card working. Cleaned it off thoroughly and all was good -
worth checking.

 

[Sham B]

Static damage occurs over time, so if you have removed it 100s of times as you say, that would
easily do it. I used to work as a team leader doing maintenance on computer systems in a power
station, and we had the same problem - pulling cards constantly causes static and/or mechanical
damage whatever you do, and we had a maximum number of handlings a card was allowed before it was
binned on the assumption that it was close to failure.

Bottom line - modern digital equipment doesnt like to be handled, so do it as infrequently as
possible. The only things you should be wanting to access are the fans to clean off the dust, and
you can do that with a can of air.

However, during commissioning when we are less bothered, and spares were thin on the ground, the
following sometimes helped to wake the dead -

1. Most common random failure is the power supply. If you look at diagnostic charts for video game
cabinets, that is always the first thing they tell you to check, because it is the most susceptible
to knocks and burning out. Follow the tracks coming from the PSU molex with a multimeter and make
sure you are seeing a voltage. Pulling the molex takes some force, so check that the solder on that
connector is good. for GFX cards, its also worth checking that all the right things are getting hot
(GPU and memory). this confirms that they are seeing power. Without a board diagram, the easiest
way to fault diagnose a difficult board is to have a similar working board and to test the voltages
on all the test pins to see where the working and non-working card diverge.
2. press down all chips. Might be a mechanical contact failure caused by flexing the card. If you
want to do it properly, press down all legs that look suspect with a pin or long nose pliers. This
will take a good half hour to do throughly.
3. Increase the voltage slightly and see if that fires it up. You may see it start up again if it is
a borderline static fault, but if this occurs *never handle the card again unless you are taking it
out to replace it, because you will not get another chance*
4. Check all the components for failure visually,especially the taller components that would be bent
out of place easiest (especially capacitors and anything with a heatsink on it... these may have
disconnected legs, so it migh even be just worth going around the memory chips with a pin, pressing
each one down.
5. The most unreliable components are electrolytic capactitors. Check them all for short circuits,
which would be caused by the electrolytic membrane failing or the capacitor simply drying out (some
of them are wet inside). Look carefully along the capacitors for bulging or small hairline splits.
If you see this, replace the capacitor.
6 *Dont keep removing your card just to clean it in future!*

Although a dead board is always a disappointment, the challenge of getting it working again can
sometimes be a greater challange than some games! I guess thats why us geeks are always upgrading
and overclocking

HTH, and good luck.

S

 

[smithy]

Have you actually put that card into your kids machine and tried it?

smithy

Static damage occurs over time, so if you have removed it 100s of times as you say, that would
easily do it. I used to work as a team leader doing maintenance on computer systems in a power
station, and we had the same problem - pulling cards constantly causes static and/or mechanical
damage whatever you do, and we had a maximum number of handlings a card was allowed before it was
binned on the assumption that it was close to failure.

Bottom line - modern digital equipment doesnt like to be handled, so do it as infrequently as
possible. The only things you should be wanting to access are the fans to clean off the dust, and
you can do that with a can of air.

However, during commissioning when we are less bothered, and spares were thin on the ground, the
following sometimes helped to wake the dead -

1. Most common random failure is the power supply. If you look at

diagnostic charts for video game

cabinets, that is always the first thing they tell you to check, because it is the most susceptible
to knocks and burning out. Follow the tracks coming from the PSU molex with a multimeter and make
sure you are seeing a voltage. Pulling the molex takes some force, so check that the solder on that
connector is good. for GFX cards, its also worth checking that all the right things are getting hot
(GPU and memory). this confirms that they are seeing power. Without a board diagram, the easiest
way to fault diagnose a difficult board is to have a similar working board and to test the voltages
on all the test pins to see where the working and non-working card diverge.
2. press down all chips. Might be a mechanical contact failure caused by flexing the card. If you
want to do it properly, press down all legs that look suspect with a pin or long nose pliers. This
will take a good half hour to do throughly.
3. Increase the voltage slightly and see if that fires it up. You may see it start up again if it is
a borderline static fault, but if this occurs *never handle the card again unless you are taking it
out to replace it, because you will not get another chance*
4. Check all the components for failure visually,especially the taller components that would be bent
out of place easiest (especially capacitors and anything with a heatsink on it... these may have
disconnected legs, so it migh even be just worth going around the memory chips with a pin, pressing
each one down.
5. The most unreliable components are electrolytic capactitors. Check them all for short circuits,
which would be caused by the electrolytic membrane failing or the

capacitor simply drying out (some

 

[Dreamaker]

I have a Sapphire 9800Pro which I got in Jan or Feb. Last night I decided to
take off the VGA Silencer and clean it out. Everything went smoothly. I put
some new AS5 on the gpu, put it together, popped it back into the
motherboard (Abit AI7) and it wouldn't post (stuck on error code 25). After
reseating it several times and clearing the bios, I decided to put the stock
HSF back on. Still wouldn't post. I took my old nVidia Ti4400 out of the
kids' computer and tried that. It worked fine. Tried the 9800 in their
computer and got one long and 2 short beeps (video card problem). (yes, I
connected the power cord to the 9800)
I'm not a novice; done this 100's of times and built dozens of computers.
I've pretty much ruled out a static electricity mishap and there's no damage
to the card. The gpu doesn't appear to have cracked from reinstalling the
VGA Silencer.

I'm desperately looking for something simple that I may have overlooked, so
if any of you gents have any ideas, I'd like to hear them.

The card is under warranty, but I've installed ramsinks. I'm not sure how
that will affect it.
I really don't want to buy a new card and haven't really kept up on what's
hot now. I don't have a PCI2 slot, so a new one would have to be AGP. I'm
not brand loyal. Between work and home, I have 1 nVidia and 2 ATI cards. I
buy whatever seems right at the time. From what little I know about the
current state of the art cards, maybe a 6800? I hate researching something
for a rushed purchase. This is really depressing.

Gary

Why not cleaning your gpu with some lens contact fluid. i did that with prossesor that i blow-up and
thay did'nt found any trace of damage in return at that time i had an duron1300 an manage to do some
shortcut on it. what a smell.

So to hide the mess i use that cleaning solution ( XEROX CX-85) that contain fluorocarbon,
isopropyl alcohol wtich did a great job to remove the smell and auther little peace of paste that
was on the cpu. in return they send me an xp1900 because the duron was'nt mayde anymore...

Anyway my point is u could try to clean out the videocard and be carefulll for short cut that are
place under some "contact little peace of metal" whitch are use to do the contact to the board to
the chips...

And i'm very soory to annonce you that the card might be dead for good.
snif snif you will have to wait a mount or 2.

 

[GTX_SlotCar]

Sorry I couldn't reply sooner, gents. Being a weekend, I'm not at work and,
well, as you know, I have no video card in my home computer I just put
my kids' Ti4400 back in my computer, in safe mode so I don't have to install
drivers.

I appreciate all the replies. Here's some answers.
I didn't mean that I've taken this video card out to clean it 100's of
times, I meant I've done it 100's of times on all the cards and computers
I've owned and worked on in the past. I was an IBM value added dealer in the
mid '80's, so I've been doing this stuff since the 8088's, XT's and AT's
were out.

AS5 isn't an electrical conductor (maybe it is under extreme pressure), but
I suppose it could create capacitance to some degree. I'm very careful about
using small amounts of compound and keeping it where it belongs. I've been
over the card several times, with a magnifiying glass under bright light,
and there's no excess compound anywhere. There is no damage to the
components on the card. I'm very careful not to touch the card edge
connector, which is very prone to static damage; but, I make sure it's
cleaned before reinstalling the card. The gpu is shiny and not cracked.
With the card installed, I measured the back side of the molex connector and
the correct voltages are there (-4.9v and 12v I believe). My kids' card
works in this computer (obviously, since I'm using it now) and my 9800
doesn't work in their's.
Using the DVi won't make a difference because the card won't get past post
(but I appreciate Ted's kind words and suggestion).
All the suggestions were very good. Pretty much what I was looking for
(thanks). I don't have any socketed components, so nothing loose there. Just
before I shut down (in a few minutes), I'll bump the AGP voltage up to 1.65
and see if that helps. I don't want to leave this card in at that voltage.
As a last resort, I'll try blasting the pc board for a few moments with hot
air from my wife's hair dryer. It's a long shot, but it used to work on the
old 8" floppy drives.
I'll probably end up RMA'ing this card. The ramsinks were installed with AS
Thermal Adhesive mixed 50/50 with AS5. So, theoretically I can remove them
but it may leave a mess. I'm probably better off leaving them on. If they
take it, I agree that it would probably be at least 2 months before I see a
replacement.
The best prices I can find on 6800's and 6800GT's is BestBuy (surprise).
Even if I didn't like the brand, I could return them if I didn't like the
performance gain. But, as Kendt suggested, it's a bad time to buy a card.
BestBuy is out of them. The MSI 9800Pro looks good, too. If I stay with a
9800, that'll be the one. Price/performance #'s on anandtech's site is
somewhat useful.
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2113&p=3
Maybe my kids will end up with a 9800Pro if ATI fixes it.

Gary