I got my HD3870 after having a 7600GT...

[Beladi Nasrallah]

OK, so I have received my ATI HD3870 and installed it into my
computer. After having an nVidia 7600GT, I was impressed with the
intensity of color (both in 2D desktop applications, and in 3D games).
The card also served its main purpose: I no longer got the horrible
banding in the shades of grey which I had with 7600GT. I played TF2,
the color was rich(er).

However, I had to enable VSync, because no longer the frame was "sewn"
out of couple of frames occasionally as I had with 7600GT. Now the
whole frame was covered with pieces of different frames out of sync (I
enabled VSync with hesitation because it could take down half of
framerate). With the same amount of whistles and bells enabled (AA x2,
AF trilinear etc), the framerate with 3870 seemed to be lower, so that
I could see slow frames. That was not too good.

Oh yeah, when I installed CCC, I was surprised that the installation
took so long time, and it had to install the crap like .Net 2.0 and C+
+ 2005 (in nVida, the driver installed momentarily). I uninstalled
nVidia driver and ran a driver cleaner, and then installed ATI's CCC.
Everything worked al'right, except I did not have sound. I played with
settings, but nothing happened (all the right settings were enabled
anyway). Then I rebooted the computer, and I got sound for Windows
system applications, but not for games or for Windows Player. I played
with settings a little more (with no real purpose, as all the relevant
settings were enabled), and then rebooted the computer. I got full
sound. I do not know what was the problem.

When I installed the ATI card, I noticed that the Windows font became
jagged. For example, the word "Start" at the left bottom corner had
jaggies in it (which I did not have with 7600GT). I enabled Cleartype
font, the jaggies disappeared. However, this also gave some fuzzy look
to all the font in Windows applications (such as IE). It looked too
"heavy" for my reading. After a deliberation, I turned the Cleartype
off.

I wanted to play Silent Hunter 4, and that game require anti-aliasing
enabled, as there is too much "shimmering" when watching the sea. The
game does not have the AA setting, it has to be enabled within the
video card driver. I wanted to enable AA x2 only for this game (as I
could do in nVidia conrol center). Unfortunately, I could not find a
possibility of enabling settings for particular games. So that I
enabled AA for all games which was not an ideal solution.

In summary, I got what I wanted from my new ATI 3870 -- a noticeably
improved quality of image. I am prepared to live with its
imperfections. Now, the question remains if I could get the same
improvement of image quality with nVidia 8800GT (which was a
contender)... from what I read on the Internet I guess I could...

 

[First of One]

OK, so I have received my ATI HD3870 and installed it into my
computer. After having an nVidia 7600GT, I was impressed with the
intensity of color (both in 2D desktop applications, and in 3D games).
The card also served its main purpose: I no longer got the horrible
banding in the shades of grey which I had with 7600GT. I played TF2,
the color was rich(er).

That shouldn't be the case. At identical settings, the 7600GT and HD3870
should deliver identical image quality in both 2D and 3D. Either there was a
hardware defect with your particular 7600GT, or (more likely) you didn't
have the color and gamma settings or monitor timing set correctly in the
nVidia control panel.

However, I had to enable VSync, because no longer the frame was "sewn"
out of couple of frames occasionally as I had with 7600GT. Now the
whole frame was covered with pieces of different frames out of sync (I
enabled VSync with hesitation because it could take down half of
framerate). With the same amount of whistles and bells enabled (AA x2,
AF trilinear etc), the framerate with 3870 seemed to be lower, so that
I could see slow frames. That was not too good.

Try enabling triple-buffering in CCC, this should raise the framerate with
VSync enabled.

Oh yeah, when I installed CCC, I was surprised that the installation
took so long time, and it had to install the crap like .Net 2.0 and C+
+ 2005 (in nVida, the driver installed momentarily). I uninstalled
nVidia driver and ran a driver cleaner, and then installed ATI's CCC.

Yes, CCC is a pig. Unless you want to set up two cards in Crossfire, there
is no reason to install or use CCC. Next time choose the driver-only
download package. Then install the compact ATi Tray Tools from Guru3D.

Everything worked al'right, except I did not have sound. I played with
settings, but nothing happened (all the right settings were enabled
anyway). Then I rebooted the computer, and I got sound for Windows
system applications, but not for games or for Windows Player. I played
with settings a little more (with no real purpose, as all the relevant
settings were enabled), and then rebooted the computer. I got full
sound. I do not know what was the problem.

It sometimes takes a couple of reboots for everything to work correctly.

I wanted to play Silent Hunter 4, and that game require anti-aliasing
enabled, as there is too much "shimmering" when watching the sea. The
game does not have the AA setting, it has to be enabled within the
video card driver. I wanted to enable AA x2 only for this game (as I
could do in nVidia conrol center). Unfortunately, I could not find a
possibility of enabling settings for particular games. So that I
enabled AA for all games which was not an ideal solution.

You can set up profiles in CCC (one of the buttons along the top row) and
switch around as needed. If you run ATi Tray Tools, you can link profiles to
individual game EXE files.

In summary, I got what I wanted from my new ATI 3870 -- a noticeably
improved quality of image. I am prepared to live with its
imperfections. Now, the question remains if I could get the same
improvement of image quality with nVidia 8800GT (which was a
contender)... from what I read on the Internet I guess I could...

So why did you get an HD3870, when a 8800GT can be had for $231 AUD?
http://www.itestate.com.au/products_detail.asp?code=PD00005172

 

[Beladi Nasrallah]

That shouldn't be the case. At identical settings, the 7600GT and HD3870
should deliver identical image quality in both 2D and 3D. Either there wasa
hardware defect with your particular 7600GT, or (more likely) you didn't
have the color and gamma settings or monitor timing set correctly in the
nVidia control panel.

I played a lot with the color and gamma settings of my 7600GT card.
The banding still was there. I had banding in FEAR with 7600GT, and I
do not have it now with 3870.

Try enabling triple-buffering in CCC, this should raise the framerate with
VSync enabled.

Triple-buffering can be enabled in CCC only for OpenGL. For Direct3D,
there is no such option. I presume Half-Life 2 and Team Forterss are
played in Direct3D.

Yes, CCC is a pig. Unless you want to set up two cards in Crossfire, there
is no reason to install or use CCC. Next time choose the driver-only
download package. Then install the compact ATi Tray Tools from Guru3D.

OK, I did it... a little cumbersome to use the ATI Tray Tools, because
it is not a standalone Windowed application.

It sometimes takes a couple of reboots for everything to work correctly.


You can set up profiles in CCC (one of the buttons along the top row) and
switch around as needed. If you run ATi Tray Tools, you can link profiles to
individual game EXE files.


So why did you get an HD3870, when a 8800GT can be had for $231 AUD?http://www.itestate.com.au/products_detail.asp?code=PD00005172

Actually, 8800GT appear on our market (MSY --- the discount walk-in
store, cheapest prices around) for $400 (local currency), and 3870 for
around $350. Now, the prices for 8800GT have fallen to $240, and the
prices for 3870 fell to $250. The question is: why the fall of prices
for 8800GT was more dramatic ? Is there something inherently better in
an ATI card that attracts premium in price ?

 

[Beladi Nasrallah]

OK, so I am unhappy with my new card 3870 having moved onto it off
nVidia 7600GT. The color is richer, and the grey gradation is
smoother, right.

However, the first complaint is that the fonts are now jagged. It did
not happen with 7600GT before.

The second complaint is that the card 3870 seems to be slower than
7600GT in shooter games, and the quality of image is _worse_. When I
am moving past vertical elements (e.g. coloumns or doors), they are
noticeably teared (something like into ten pieces along the hight).
The card seems to struggle to draw the elements of the environment,
which results in the jerked movement. I tried switching AA and AF and
VSync on and off in th egame and in CCC. Nothing works. I feel like
putting my 7600GT back ! And my other thought is that I should have
gone with a 8800GT instead of ATI 3870 !

 

[Anssi Saari]

Triple-buffering can be enabled in CCC only for OpenGL. For Direct3D,
there is no such option. I presume Half-Life 2 and Team Forterss are
played in Direct3D.

Triple buffering for Direct3D can be enabled with the little
D3DOverrider tool included in RivaTuner.

 

[John Lewis]

OK, so I am unhappy with my new card 3870 having moved onto it off
nVidia 7600GT. The color is richer, and the grey gradation is
smoother, right.

However, the first complaint is that the fonts are now jagged. It did
not happen with 7600GT before.

The second complaint is that the card 3870 seems to be slower than
7600GT in shooter games, and the quality of image is _worse_. When I
am moving past vertical elements (e.g. coloumns or doors), they are
noticeably teared (something like into ten pieces along the hight).
The card seems to struggle to draw the elements of the environment,
which results in the jerked movement. I tried switching AA and AF and
VSync on and off in th egame and in CCC. Nothing works. I feel like
putting my 7600GT back ! And my other thought is that I should have
gone with a 8800GT instead of ATI 3870 !

You might want to try a clean install of your system. From the
problems listed in your earlier posting, some of your grief may be
nothing to do with the 3870. You conclusion that the 8800GT might
have been a better choice might still be true, but you should give the
3870 a fair test environment first.

John Lewis

 

[jeremiebanks]

OK, so I am unhappy with my new card 3870 having moved onto it off
nVidia 7600GT. The color is richer, and the grey gradation is
smoother, right.

However, the first complaint is that the fonts are now jagged. It did
not happen with 7600GT before.

The second complaint is that the card 3870 seems to be slower than
7600GT in shooter games, and the quality of image is _worse_. When I
am moving past vertical elements (e.g. coloumns or doors), they are
noticeably teared (something like into ten pieces along the hight).
The card seems to struggle to draw the elements of the environment,
which results in the jerked movement. I tried switching AA and AF and
VSync on and off in th egame and in CCC. Nothing works. I feel like
putting my 7600GT back ! And my other thought is that I should have
gone with a 8800GT instead of ATI 3870 !

Definitely. Steer clear of ATI. Nothing but trouble in my experience.

 

[Augustus]

In summary, I got what I wanted from my new ATI 3870 -- a noticeably

improved quality of image. I am prepared to live with its
imperfections. Now, the question remains if I could get the same
improvement of image quality with nVidia 8800GT (which was a
contender)... from what I read on the Internet I guess I could...

There was what, a $30 difference between your HD3870 and an 8800GT?
There's zero image quality difference.....as you were told before by myself
and many others, it's just driver and display profile settings. The so
called image quality difference you refer to is nothing of the kind. What
you're seeing is the graphics card drivers default color settings. As for
the other litany of complaints, I suspect you'd be doing the exact same
thing if you'd bought an 8800GT or 9600GT. Namely complain about how it's
image quality and other assorted things look worse than your 7600GT plus a
plethora of other observation of specific game and application comparisons
having nothing to do with the actual graphical hardware. And then wishing
you'd bought an HD3870.

 

[Beladi Nasrallah]

You are probably right. He is claiming HL2 isn't fast enough on his HD3870
with vsync enabled... The game can be played smoothly with 4x AA with the
9800 Pro from three generations ago. With an HD3870 it should be hitting the
refresh rate limit constantly (i.e. 85 fps with 85 Hz refresh rate).

It is late now, so I am addressing your post quickly. I was not good
at experssing my thought, and you did not understand. I did a reading
on the Internet on the topic, and I am now capable more to tell you.

When I use the computer with VSync OFF, I get massive tearing in TF2,
which is unpleasant to eye. So that I enabled VSync. However, now the
new problem cropped up. I no longer get tearings. However, no I am
getting jerking movements, fo example, when I am running and look
sideways on vertical elements, I can see that they move jerkily. It
looks like slideshow. To some people, it looks like the framerate is
low, even if the card is capable of 100 fps. The reason is that with
VSync ON, if the framerate in difficult places drops below 60 Hz
(that's what my LCD runs at), then some frames drop out. The card
drops its framerate to 60 Hz/2, i.e. 30 Hz. That's what is perceived
as "slideshow".

In this situation, you advised to to enable triple buffering. I read
on the theory -- triple buffer would not allow the framerate to drop
that low. However, I noticed that Catalyst Control Center offers
triple buffer only for OpenGL, not for Direct3D. However, reading
more, I discovered that ATI Tray Tools offer the capability to have
triple buffering with Direct3D.

Today I uninstalled CCC, and installed ATT. I enabled VSync, the
jugginess went away, however I got jerkiness. Then I tried to enable
triple buffering. It did not do any visible effect. Here is where I am
now.

 

[Legion]

It is late now, so I am addressing your post quickly. I was not good
at experssing my thought, and you did not understand. I did a reading
on the Internet on the topic, and I am now capable more to tell you.

When I use the computer with VSync OFF, I get massive tearing in TF2,
which is unpleasant to eye. So that I enabled VSync. However, now the
new problem cropped up. I no longer get tearings. However, no I am
getting jerking movements, fo example, when I am running and look
sideways on vertical elements, I can see that they move jerkily. It
looks like slideshow. To some people, it looks like the framerate is
low, even if the card is capable of 100 fps. The reason is that with
VSync ON, if the framerate in difficult places drops below 60 Hz
(that's what my LCD runs at), then some frames drop out. The card
drops its framerate to 60 Hz/2, i.e. 30 Hz. That's what is perceived
as "slideshow".

In this situation, you advised to to enable triple buffering. I read
on the theory -- triple buffer would not allow the framerate to drop
that low. However, I noticed that Catalyst Control Center offers
triple buffer only for OpenGL, not for Direct3D. However, reading
more, I discovered that ATI Tray Tools offer the capability to have
triple buffering with Direct3D.

Today I uninstalled CCC, and installed ATT. I enabled VSync, the
jugginess went away, however I got jerkiness. Then I tried to enable
triple buffering. It did not do any visible effect. Here is where I am
now.

I have never played a game with VSync enabled and never needed to.
FWIW

Legion

 

[Beladi Nasrallah]

Definitely. Steer clear of ATI. Nothing but trouble in my experience.

I did a search inside of me, and I realised that the reason I got ATI
was that I wanted the thrill of mental stimulation when working out
how to make the new system work.

Ideally, after finding out about the advantages and quirks of the ATI
card, I would like to sell it for a sum of money close to what I paid
for it, and then buy 8800GT.

(Now, there is a challenge for me to find out if 8800GT's image
quality is close to IQ of the ATI card. Unfortunately, I am an asocial
guy, and I do not have friends with 8800GT'd and HD3870's who'd be
able to show me those cards in action.)

 

[Legion]

I did a search inside of me, and I realised that the reason I got ATI
was that I wanted the thrill of mental stimulation when working out
how to make the new system work.

No, you bought it because your cheap.

Ideally, after finding out about the advantages and quirks of the ATI
card, I would like to sell it for a sum of money close to what I paid
for it, and then buy 8800GT.

(Now, there is a challenge for me to find out if 8800GT's image
quality is close to IQ of the ATI card. Unfortunately, I am an asocial
guy, and I do not have friends with 8800GT'd and HD3870's who'd be
able to show me those cards in action.)

The challenge for you is to develop an IQ that is close to IQ of the
ATI card...<g>

Legion

 

[Rene]

"Beladi Nasrallah" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht

I did a search inside of me, and I realised that the reason I got ATI
was that I wanted the thrill of mental stimulation when working out
how to make the new system work.

And how far inside of You did You find this invaluable information? Were You
already up to the elbow?

Unfortunately, I am an asocial guy

You must be kidding ;-)!

Sincerely,
Rene

 

[Backspace]

That shouldn't be the case. At identical settings, the 7600GT and HD3870
should deliver identical image quality in both 2D and 3D.

Nope, ATI has always had more saturated colors by default. That's why
Nvidia provides that digital vibrancy adjuster, which I don't use anyway
as I prefer natural colors and not over saturation of colors. Either
card can be adjusted to your preference anyway by using the control
panel to adjust colors, saturation etc. for both 2D and 3D. Then there
are 3rd party apps that will allow you to do even more and set up
profiles for photos, games etc.

 

[Backspace]

I played a lot with the color and gamma settings of my 7600GT card.
The banding still was there. I had banding in FEAR with 7600GT, and I
do not have it now with 3870.

That was probably a hardware issue with the card. I had a 7900GT that
had the same issue so looked into it and EVGA said it was a memory
issue. The card they sent as replacement did not have the same problem.
The banding was very noticeable on a NIN DVD I have because there was
lots of strong bright back lighting in the concert footage. At first I
thought it was my LCD monitor causing it but it turned out the video
card was the culprit. All 6bit LCD's will show a bit of banding in these
situations though compared to a CRT.