HP LaserJet 5L Xtra: Keep or Replace?

[Elle]

This printer is at least six years old. I think less than a year after
purchasing it new, its batch paper feed failed. It only works if I feed it
one page at a time. Lately even that is not reliable. Some questions:

1. Anyone ever seen this problem repaired easily?

2. This laser printer's speed is four pages per minute. I am surprised to
see that the latest color injet printers are printing in excess of 15 ppm
now. If I replace this printer, is there really any good reason not to buy a
color inkjet in the $80 to $180 range? I don't have a need to print color. I
just want something I can throw a ream or so of paper into, and it goes...

3. What is the quality of HP printers these days? I am very disappointed
with this one, given that it failed to operate correctly after less than a
year, and I think I paid over $300 for it. Unfortunately, Consumer Reports
doesn't appear to check for reliability of printers (that is, how likely
they are to fail). Does any online consumer site do so?

4. Is a printer priced at $100 necessarily notably inferior to one priced at
$150? Does one get what one pays for in such a small price range?

5. I see the new all-in-one printers (print, copy, scan, and sometimes fax
and other) going for under $200. Junk or, sure, they're good enough for
light home office use?

6. Anyone have any experience with the HP PSC1610, going for around $130 at
places like CompUSA and BestBuy? I hate buying another HP, unless they've
really got their printing act together, but they are apparently now the
biggest manufacturer of printers.

7. Any other all-in-one printer for under $180 that people would care to
recommend?

 

[Wolf Kirchmeir]

This printer is at least six years old. I think less than a year after
purchasing it new, its batch paper feed failed. It only works if I feed it
one page at a time. Lately even that is not reliable. Some questions:

1. Anyone ever seen this problem repaired easily?

Not me. Generally speaking, cheap printers are not worth repairing, anyhow.

2. This laser printer's speed is four pages per minute. I am surprised to
see that the latest color inkjet printers are printing in excess of 15 ppm
now. If I replace this printer, is there really any good reason not to buy a
color inkjet in the $80 to $180 range? I don't have a need to print color. I
just want something I can throw a ream or so of paper into, and it goes...

Yes, ink cost. Laser is still the cheapest for mono b/w - get a current
HP Laserjet, it will cost you more to buy, but considerably less to
print. It's the total cost of ownership that matters, and when it comes
to inkjets, the acquisition cost is the smallest part of it.

Examples:
a) I bought an Epson Stylus 740 for $250 (sale price), over its lifetime
of 3 years it cost me about $800 in ink. Then it was junk.
b) I bought an HP660C for $600, over its lifetime of almost 10 years, it
cost about $2400 in ink. Then it was junk, too (but it lasted a lot
longer than the Epson.)
c) I bought an i960 for $300, it's lasted less than two years, I've used
about $300 worth of ink (and Canon ink is cheap compared to Epson or
HP), and now it needs a new printhead $90 + shipping).

3. What is the quality of HP printers these days? I am very disappointed
with this one, given that it failed to operate correctly after less than a
year, and I think I paid over $300 for it. Unfortunately, Consumer Reports
doesn't appear to check for reliability of printers (that is, how likely
they are to fail). Does any online consumer site do so?

HP used to be the Mack trucks of the prining industry, but lately they
have declined in quality to merely average. Mind you, "average" is
better than it used to be.

Google "printer reliability tests" and you'll find enough websites yto
keep you busy for a while. Better yet, determine which models may be

4. Is a printer priced at $100 necessarily notably inferior to one priced at
$150? Does one get what one pays for in such a small price range?

Depends. If it's an end of the line model, it will be considerably
cheaper, and hence perhaps a better buy. However, you may not be able to
find a reliable source of ink for a discontinued model. But a cheap
printer is -- a cheap printer. You will find that it gobbles ink, and
ink (even 3rd party) is expensive. Rule of thumb: the cheaper the
printer, the more you'll pay for ink.

5. I see the new all-in-one printers (print, copy, scan, and sometimes fax
and other) going for under $200. Junk or, sure, they're good enough for
light home office use?

I would avoid the inkjet versions of these machines. The laser versions
are tougher (built for office use).

Personally, I no longer buy any office equipment intended for the
consumer or "small home office" market. It doesn't last, is unreliable,
costs too much to operate, etc. It's false economy to buy such cheap
junk. Go for professional quality machines, you'll find them hassle free
and much, much cheaper in the long run.

Before you make any buying decsision on a new printer, estimate your
consumables cost as accurately as you can. Assume a suitable lifespan
for your printer, and calculate the total cost of ownership.

6. Anyone have any experience with the HP PSC1610, going for around $130 at
places like CompUSA and BestBuy? I hate buying another HP, unless they've
really got their printing act together, but they are apparently now the
biggest manufacturer of printers.

Maybe so, but AFAIK, Canon is. Not that it makes much difference.

7. Any other all-in-one printer for under $180 that people would care to
recommend?

No.

Go look at machines in the $500 range, and you're more likely to find a
reliable product.

 

[Tony]

I am surprised that your 5L failed after only one year to pick up paper, I have
found the 5L and 6L printers to be very reliable although slow (they are after
all pretty old technology). The fix is almost certainly the replacement of the
pick up roller and separation pads, this needs to be done by someone with a
reasonable degree of mechanical skill because the printer needs to have several
components removed to achieve the replacement. The parts are available and a
printer repair shop should be able to do the job in about 30-45 minutes tops.

I am disappointed with the current cheaper HP PSC series of printers, the
higher priced models seem to be fine.

Choosing a printer depends very much on what you want to use it for (letters,
images etc) but I suggest you look at the Canon PIXMA range which covers a lot
of uses nicely, so far this range of printers appears to be reliable. I own an
ip4000 which has served me well so far.

If you are tempted to look at a Brother inkjet printer then I suggest you
Google "Brother error 41" before you buy one!

Tony

 

[Elle]

I am surprised that your 5L failed after only one year to pick up paper, I have
found the 5L and 6L printers to be very reliable although slow (they are after
all pretty old technology).

I just googled to try to find out how much I paid for this printer, and I
saw a number of posts complaining about this problem with the 5L. But I also
saw a number of posts saying the user had had no such problems and giving it
good reviews.

The fix is almost certainly the replacement of the
pick up roller and separation pads, this needs to be done by someone with a
reasonable degree of mechanical skill because the printer needs to have several
components removed to achieve the replacement. The parts are available and a
printer repair shop should be able to do the job in about 30-45 minutes

tops.

I understand. Indeed, while googling, I came across a site that sells a such
a repair kit (specifically for the 5L's paper feed problem) for $30. People
who bought it say it works.

I am disappointed with the current cheaper HP PSC series of printers, the
higher priced models seem to be fine.

Choosing a printer depends very much on what you want to use it for (letters,
images etc) but I suggest you look at the Canon PIXMA range which covers a lot
of uses nicely, so far this range of printers appears to be reliable. I own an
ip4000 which has served me well so far.

If you are tempted to look at a Brother inkjet printer then I suggest you
Google "Brother error 41" before you buy one!

Okay, thanks.

 

[Elle]

Elle wrote:

snip for brevity, but all comments read and noted

I would avoid the inkjet versions of these machines. The laser versions
are tougher (built for office use).

Personally, I no longer buy any office equipment intended for the
consumer or "small home office" market. It doesn't last, is unreliable,
costs too much to operate, etc. It's false economy to buy such cheap
junk. Go for professional quality machines, you'll find them hassle free
and much, much cheaper in the long run.

Thanks, Wolf.

I just(!) found the single-paper feed slot on my 5L, and I'll see if using
it exclusively helps. I see from googling that I probably paid close to $400
for this machine back around 1996-7. When it prints, it does print well. I
do like the Laser result.

I'm thinking I'll at least wait until the current ink cartridge is exhausted
before buying a new printer. Or I'll wait until a more complete breakdown
occurs. Or maybe someone here will chime in and say, 'Go buy the little HP
5L Laserjet paper feed repair kit; it will be the best $30 you spent in your
printer's life!' And so I will.

If not, then I will likely consider strongly your counsel that, if one wants
reliability and long-run savings, buy the office version. 'Cause, man, I'm
using words these days that would make a sailor blush everytime another
jam/misfeed occurs... probably cheaper to spend $500 and keep my blood
pressure low.

Good day.

 

[Impmon]

1. Anyone ever seen this problem repaired easily?

Mine did that until I got the paper feed repair kit from HP. It
simply adds something into the paper tray but it has helped a lot so I
don't worry about feeding 3 or 4 pages per print.

2. This laser printer's speed is four pages per minute. I am surprised to
see that the latest color injet printers are printing in excess of 15 ppm
now. If I replace this printer, is there really any good reason not to buy a
color inkjet in the $80 to $180 range? I don't have a need to print color. I
just want something I can throw a ream or so of paper into, and it goes...

First, bear in mind the print speed is often measured at draft or low
quality setting, normal quality would be slower. I still keep my 5L
because it prints faster than my 940 on B&W only setting normal
quality. Plus in the long run toner is cheaper than ink. I've been
meaning to replace the 5L with a faster laser printer but with
footprint area about the size of 5L

3. What is the quality of HP printers these days?

I haven't had any problem with the last 2 HP inkjet printers I use
(722 and 940) and HP printer are generally good.

4. Is a printer priced at $100 necessarily notably inferior to one priced at
$150? Does one get what one pays for in such a small price range?

No, often no quality difference based on price. The price usually
reflects more along the side features it has, printing speed, and
print resolution. So a $150 printer may print a bit faster offers
memory card reader for direct to print photo that a $100 model don't
have.

5. I see the new all-in-one printers (print, copy, scan, and sometimes fax
and other) going for under $200. Junk or, sure, they're good enough for
light home office use?

I've only had one all-in-one (Epson 5200) and nothing but bad
experience with them. The printer would print badly after the
original set of ink cart were replaced and frequent cleaning of the
ink head eventually failed to work. It's a problem with Epson 5200
but it's the only one I had. I don't know about other all-in-one
printer though.

 

[zakezuke]

1. Anyone ever seen this problem repaired easily?

On my old HP II I use to clean the rollers once a month with windex and
those lint free blue paper towels you can buy at home depot or auto
supply shops. It helped a good deal. Also turning the paper around
and upside down helped as well. In the olden days reams of paper were
marked with a direction to put into your copier taking into account
it's curve. I finally gave up and pulled the rollers and painted them
with "dip it" rubber coating. That fix lasted about a year. Gave it
up when I thought it was a good idea to go with an all in one unit.

I miss it, with referb toner carts I was spending $20 for 4000 pages.

5. I see the new all-in-one printers (print, copy, scan, and sometimes fax
and other) going for under $200. Junk or, sure, they're good enough for
light home office use?

Picked up an HP PSC 950 some years ago, I think 5. Spend between $400
and $500 on that sucker. The scanner is starting to flake out... seems
to be the same problem other scanners from the same time period
suffer... it's as if there is a white alignment strip inside that
discolors and they can't find the start of the scannerbed.

Replaced that with the Canon i760. No fax but a soso 35mm scanner
onboard. It was ether that or the Canon i780 with the sheet feeder.
$300 retail, $240 mail order. I was sold into into HP's reputation in
the past but now feel the past 5 years their quality has declined
considerably. Other people who bought the PSC 950 had theirs fall
apart over a period of 4 years, specificly back tray path cover
breaking away and attached again with duct tape. This time around, I
was sold by the reputation of the Canon ip4000, and both printers share
the same engine.

I didn't consider a PSC becaue the print yield of the carts went down
over the years, and the cost remained the same. It went down from 850
to 650 as with the psc 950 to currently 450pages on the entry level
PSCs. But the cost/cart remained the same.

I didn't consider an Epson due to my recent bad experence with the R200
failing due to an overflowing diaper, and as it turns out I'm required
to get it "serviced" and they won't replace it dispite the fact that
all the electronics are ink soiled. From what i've read all epsons
waste buckets of ink and store them in a diaper that is impossible for
the end user to replace without hours of time and a very good breakdown
manual. Even though I was aware of the problem, and had all my waste
ink to into a starbucks cup, I started doing this too late. What makes
me sad is I loved the output of the Epson, and it was ideal for making
CD/DVD covers.

4. Is a printer priced at $100 necessarily notably inferior to one priced at
$150?

Sometimes price difference reflects a choice in heads and carts they
decide to include with it, as well as the cost of consumeables. For
example the PSC1610 takes the 94 black @ $20/pop 450p yield, as does
the PSC 2355. But the PSC 2610, 2710 will also take the 96 black @
$30/pop and 800p yield, and also the 94 black if you want to pay more
money/page. It seems odd that the 96 isn't listed as being compatable,
and in my past experence with HP they sometimes electronicly key this
cartrages and refuse to use them.

From what I've observed, the lower cost printers over compensate with a

higher cost of consumables. It's hard to think in inkjet terms after
having any laserjet. LaserJet 5L I believe took the 3906A cart with a
yield of 2500 or so, so about 2.4cents/page black assuming $60/pop.
Not the highest yield nor most cost effective per page, but peanuts in
contrast to any HP inkjet. Canon inkjets among the lowest at
2.6cents/page. Better than 3.75 or 4.4cent/spage for a HP PSC.

7. Any other all-in-one printer for under $180 that people would care to

recommend?

I just picked up the Canon mp760. for $240 mail order. I've always
wanted a 35mm slide scanner even if it's a consumer grade one. The
black yield is medium sized in contrast to HP, but the cost per page is
only a little more than an average modern consumer laserjet. My bigest
reason to buy it though was the fact that I picked up the ip3000 for CD
printing... felt it was smart to have both my printers take the same
carts, and there might be a chance in hell that one can enable the CD
printing feature on the mp760 as with the ip3000.

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2005_reviews/canon_mp760.html

 

[Elle]

I miss it, with referb toner carts I was spending $20 for 4000 pages.

Zakezuke, I think the cheapest price I've found for the refurbished toner
cartridges is $40. Are you buying these online somewhere?

Thanks, Impmom and zakezuke, for the detailed posts. They're very helpful!

 

[AdMan]

I recently replaced my old HP 4L with the HP 1012. Got it for $150. I
think it's a great printer. Perfect for home use or a home office.

 

[CJK]

snip for brevity, but all comments read and noted

Thanks, Wolf.

I just(!) found the single-paper feed slot on my 5L, and I'll see if using
it exclusively helps. I see from googling that I probably paid close to $400
for this machine back around 1996-7. When it prints, it does print well. I
do like the Laser result.

I'm thinking I'll at least wait until the current ink cartridge is exhausted
before buying a new printer. Or I'll wait until a more complete breakdown
occurs. Or maybe someone here will chime in and say, 'Go buy the little HP
5L Laserjet paper feed repair kit; it will be the best $30 you spent in your
printer's life!' And so I will.

If not, then I will likely consider strongly your counsel that, if one wants
reliability and long-run savings, buy the office version. 'Cause, man, I'm
using words these days that would make a sailor blush everytime another
jam/misfeed occurs... probably cheaper to spend $500 and keep my blood
pressure low.

Good day.

OK, I'll chime in. My 5L started misfeeding after about 18 months (a known
problem)
The $30 kit from fixyourownprinter (IIRC) has worked perfectly for the last
6 years or so.

It was a problem with the composition of the original HP paper feed roller.
For some
time HP were sending out replacement parts for free.

Not too difficult to do the repair if you are comfortable taking things to
pieces.

CJK

 

[Elle]

Where did you buy the HP 1012 for $150 (new, I presume)?

I like the features listed (150-sheet paper tray; horizontal feed; 15 ppm,
though that may be on draft setting)

I see CompUsa has it for $200 . Circuit City has it for $190 if you buy it
via the web (free shipping for orders over $25)...

www.pcrush.com has it for $139 + another $20 for shipping to my zip code.

 

[Elle]

OK, I'll chime in. My 5L started misfeeding after about 18 months (a known
problem)
The $30 kit from fixyourownprinter (IIRC) has worked perfectly for the last
6 years or so.

It was a problem with the composition of the original HP paper feed roller.
For some
time HP were sending out replacement parts for free.

Ultimately I discovered reports that there was some kind of class action
suit that made this happen. Apparently HP only had to provide the parts
until sometime in 2003, though.

Not too difficult to do the repair if you are comfortable taking things to
pieces.

I am.

Thanks for the report!

 

[zakezuke]

Zakezuke, I think the cheapest price I've found for the refurbished toner

cartridges is $40. Are you buying these online somewhere?

I was buying them from officemax online, a band called printmaster
IIRC. It was not a brand they carried in their store, trust me I spend
much time getting them to check. Keep in mind I was refering to the HP
II carts, not the HP 4. The canon sx engine based printers are older,
were used by everyone and their neighbor, and simply more used
cartrages flooding the market.

The cheapest lasers I had to maintain were the Panasonic 4450i and the
TI Microlaser, both of took raw toner, but I haven't seen that feature
since the 300dpi days, save a couple of Panasonics who's drivers caused
win2k to crash under sp4.

Where did you buy the HP 1012 for $150 (new, I presume)?

The parent is refering to the rebate when you buy any computer and
printer you get $50 back.
http://rebateimages.teg-online.com/179312.jpg
Or Newegg has it for $142.00 shipped
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16828104266

HP 1012 takes the HP Q2612A (12A) with a 2000p yeild @ $70/pop or
3.5cent/page. Referbished seems to bottom out at $43 shipped or about
2c/page. Local seems to be $60 or 2.5c/page No direct experence with
this brand.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817403036

Here's the kicker. Laserjet in the past has been cheaper/page than
injket, penny a page vs pennies a page. But unless you go with
referbished toner carts, a very legit option, the consumer level sub
$300 printers on par with cheap inkets in terms of cost per page. Even
then it's on par with the very cheap inkjets. This is assuming you buy
OEM ink and not refills. Chances are the Laserjet will outlast an
Inkjet, and chances are it's noise level will be less annoying. In
this case, the trade off is speed.

Also in the past, you got a full toner cart with your new printer. HP
has been playing the game of only giving you a starter set with like
90% the yield. Not on all printers mind you, nor is there a reliable
list.

I'm pretty pleased with my Canon ip3000 inkjet where my 6 month old
epson r200 caused my desk to wobble resulting and is still in the shop,
$70 mail order, with a $20 rebate. I got mine for a tad less, like $64
or so. The way I looked at it was I could either buy new ink for my
Epson at $75 or buy another printer who's ink supply could be replaced
for $40, that came with $40 in ink. The puddle on my desk made me
decide this was a very good idea and in the event I didn't like it the
printheads fetch a pretty penny on e-bay. The IP4000 is $120 and the
same $20 rebate if you're lucky. The ip4000 has an extra black, the
large pigmented one and an ink photo one. They both have a sheet
feeder 150p and a tray 150p and duplex printing. The IP4000R gives you
wireless onboard but costs an extra $100 or so for that feature.
Pricemark about the same, but you get color.

But must admit i've only had this printer for a week or two but I was
so pleased I bought the a Canon all in one a week later.

 

[MikeD]

I am surprised that your 5L failed after only one year to pick up paper, I have
found the 5L and 6L printers to be very reliable although slow (they are after
all pretty old technology). The fix is almost certainly the replacement of the
pick up roller and separation pads, this needs to be done by someone with a
reasonable degree of mechanical skill because the printer needs to have several
components removed to achieve the replacement. The parts are available and a
printer repair shop should be able to do the job in about 30-45 minutes

tops.

I have had similar problems with my 10-year old 5L over the years. I remove
the roller, clean it with isopropyl alcohol and roughen the surface, and
that fixes it for another year or two.

Dismantling the printer requires care, but if you follow the very clear
instructions in the service manual (which I found on the internet) it's not
too difficult.

Mike

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Inkjet printers are higher maintenance than your laser printer. In
general, they don't do well if they sit for long periods without use.
You can get head clogging resulting in inferior output.

They use up ink from each cartridge each time they are turned on, even
if you are not using those inks in your printing.

Cost of consumables is much higher than laser toner. In spite of the
numbers you are reading, they tend to be slow, especially relative to
the newer laser printers. Often the numbers you see on inkjet printers
are based upon sparsely covered pages and in draft or economy mode which
isn't the quality a laser printer will provide.

Pricing is all over the map these days on printers. A great deal
depends on how much of a consumable yield the product comes with (amount
of ink or toner) and how much replacement inks or toners will cost you.

In general the model which is cheaper to purchase will me most costly to
keep in ink or toner.

Art