B
Black Jack
Really, how much do they expected to save by simply disabling the
64-bit functionality?
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=14590
Yousuf Khan
64-bit functionality?
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=14590
Yousuf Khan
E
Ed
Might save them from getting their legs broken by the Intel mafia. ;p
Ed
W
Will Dormann
Black said:
"AMD THINKS the customer is king, it has emerged, in a rare example of
X86 semiconductor firms giving people what they want, rather than what
they deserve or worse still, are allocated."
Is that even close to being a sentence?
/nitpick
-WD
R
Robert Myers
It does parse. Easier if you rearrange it and supply the missing
relative pronoun:
It has emerged that AMD thinks...
That way, you get subject and verb out of the way quickly, and the
rest of the sentence is a long subordinate clause.
There's a bad Hemingway contest. Maybe we could run a bad Register
contest?
RM
T
The little lost angel
Wouldn't it be more challenging to run a good Register contest?
pPpP--
L.Angel: I'm looking for web design work.
If you need basic to med complexity webpages at affordable rates, email me
Standard HTML, SHTML, MySQL + PHP or ASP, Javascript.
If you really want, FrontPage & DreamWeaver too.
But keep in mind you pay extra bandwidth for their bloated code
G
George Macdonald
Can't that be handled by BIOS? IOW if the BIOS does not allow the CPU to
be switched to starting up in 64-bit mode, the "customers" will never get
"confused". Seems to me HP is missing something here: if I were a customer
and couldn't turn on the 64-bitness later, when I want/need it, I'd be
pissed.
Rgds, George Macdonald
"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??
R
Robert Myers
I don't think HP was missing anything at all, except perhaps a little
candor. The confusion they didn't want customers experiencing was
that a 64-bit x86 desktop product was in any way desirable, or at
least not any sooner than they absolutely had to.
I don't want to spend the energy tracking down the ins and outs of
this one, but it seems clear that when Intel comes out with a 64-bit
x86 product, and a 64-bit version of Windows won't come out any
sooner, they won't be worried about customers being confused anymore.
Windows Server 2003 for Opteron is out in Beta, apparently. No
production release until Intel is ready with its corresponding Xeon
product? Maybe I'm missing something here, but it looks like HP just
playing along, who knows with what degree of coercion from Intel.
RM
T
Tony Hill
Could be, but I suspect that the chips will have 64-bit capabilities
disabled in hardware right from the factory. AMD can probably just
blow a fuse on the chips or some such thing to disable 64-bit mode.
Well the laptop comes equipped standard with an Athlon64-M chip, this
K8-core AthlonXP-M chip is available as a lower cost, 32-bit only
option (only $75 cheaper though for a slower chip with less cache,
probably not worth it even if it weren't for the lack of 64-bit
support). HP does make it reasonably obvious that if you want 64-bit
support you should stick to the Athlon64-M option, so really I don't
think any customers would have a reason to be pissed.
T
Tony Hill
Uhh.. I don't think so... To quote their product brief:
<quoting>
Maximize processing with the AMD Athlon 64 processor
The AMD Athlon 64 processor runs on AMD64 technology that allows the
processor to run current 32-bit applications at full speed while
enabling a new generation of 64-bit software applications.
<end quote>
They certainly are pushing people to buy the 64-bit model of the
laptop, the K8-core AthlonXP-M is only sold as a lower cost option for
people who don't want/need 64-bit capabilities. They don't go out of
their way to mention that 64-bit support isn't available on the
operating system they're shipping the notebook with (WinXP), though
I'm sure it's buried in the small print somewhere.
I really don't see any arm-twisting at all here, it's simple product
placement. HP wanted a low-cost option for to fill out this notebook
line. The Athlon64-M 3000+ and 3200+ were fine, but I think they
wanted a broader range. Rather than simply offering a third
Athlon64-M chip at a slightly lower speed, they differentiate the
cheapest option a bit more by making it only 32-bit capable.
No black helicopters circling over HP headquarters (the Canadian
military might be sending some choppers over there now after HP's
little fraud-scheme... but we can't afford black helicopters, only
dark-gray ones :> ), it's all just simple marketing and product
placement. You buy the cheap model, you lose some capabilities.
R
Robert Myers
Well, that's my reward for taking something from the register at face
value. AMD didn't have a value model, so HP invented one for them.
Wonder who took the hit (on price)?
Canada has a military? I thought the RCMP took care of everything.
RM
R
Rob Stow
Robert said:
We have about 60,000 *great* people in our military.
All we need now is a government that will give them decent
equipment, fix up the buildings on the bases, etc., ...
R
Robert Myers
You want ours (government, that is)?
RM
T
Tony Hill
They both took a bit of a hit on price. AMD now lists their
AthlonXP-M 3000+ processor on their "Processor Pricing" page. It
lists for $168. For comparison, the Athlon64-M 2800+ lists for $193
and the Athlon64-M 3000+ lists for $233.
So in theory at least, AMD is giving HP a chip that is $65 cheaper and
HP is selling it for $75 less. Guess it's more AMD taking a price hit
than HP, but on the other hand, $168 is more expensive than all of the
other AthlonXP/MP chips except for the XP 3200+ ($213) and the MP
2800+ ($174), so it should still be bumping up their ASP a bit.
Of course Canada has a military, somebody's got to shovel Toronto's
snow! :>
Ironically our rather crappy, outdated helicopters have been the
subject of some debate over the past 15 years or so (they were
supposed to be replaced way back then, but budget cuts canned the deal
so we've still got 40+ year old 'copters).
T
Tony Hill
Haha! Yeah right! Not a chance in hell on that one! Us Canucks may
bitch and moan about our government a lot, but if anyone starts
thinking too badly about them, all I ever tell them is "Hey, it could
be worse, we could have G.-Dubya running the country like they do down
south"... That usually shuts them up :>
R
Robert Myers
Good thing the Register isn't running AMD. No arm-twisting, no roll
over, just smart business. Whether it was HP insisting that it needed
a processor to fill a value slot or to hit a particular price point,
somebody took a play right out of Intel's play book. "Really just
can't afford all that performance, huh? No problem." Snip. "There.
Now you have a less expensive processor."
http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/military/b52-strat/b52_50th/timeline.htm
"Oct. 26, 1962 Last B-52 (B-52H, tail number 61-040) is
delivered by the Wichita plant to the 4136th Strategic Wing at Minot
Air Force Base, N.D." [A little over ten years after the first
prototype had flown].
As the world probably knows all too well, B-52's still fly combat
sorties in shooting wars, although a high-altitude, long-range bomber
is quite a different proposition from a helicopter. I hope they do
good maintenance on them.
I, of course, meant no slight to Canada or its military. It would be
nice to think there was still a place where Sgt. Preston and his
trusty dog Yukon King really could manage, but there is, I am afraid,
no place left on earth like that.
RM
R
RusH
Robert Myers said:
Oh they do. I'v seen it on South Park.
Pozdrawiam.
R
Rob Stow
Robert said:
I want that part of your government that understands that
there is not much point in having people in your armed
forces unless you are going to give them the equipment
and facilities they need in order to train and do their
jobs properly.
Our armed forces are perhaps 1/15th to 1/20th the size
of yours in terms of the number of people in uniform. In
terms of combat capability, however, we probably have
less than 1% of yours. Witness the fact that we had
*huge* problems in putting less than 2,000 troops into
Afghanistan and a few tiny ships into the Persian gulf.
By comparison look at the relative ease with which the
Americans deployed a huge armada and over 200,000 troops
for the conquest of Iraq.
B
Black Jack
Robert Myers said:
How much will you pay us to take them off of your hands?
Yousuf Khan
R
Robert Myers
How much will you pay us to take them off of your hands?
To have gotten this far with any number of sensitivities at stake
without having provoked a flame war is a relief. You will perhaps
forgive me if I decline to tickle the tongue of the dragon any
further. ;-).
RM
T
Tony Hill
That's pretty much the long and the short of it. I don't know why
people were making such a big stink over the deal.
Well that's what a lot of the debate has been about, there have been
some accidents with the old Sea King helicopters (first rolled off the
line in '61) and some have made the argument that it would be cheaper
and safer to replace them with newer models rather than keep spending
so much on maintenance. I guess we'll see in 10 days time (next
federal budget) if anything is likely to change.
Sadly no.