How to recover a deleted IMAP folder; IMAP tips

[Keith]

Help!

I have my email hosted by godaddy.com. I used to use POP but recently
switched to IMAP. I accidentally deleted an IMAP mail folder in Outlook 2007
and it looks like its gone forever! Under POP, a deleted folder would go to
my deleted items folder and I could just drag it back to where I wanted it
but it looks like I don't have that option with IMAP.

Any suggestions?

My thought is that maybe I should go back to POP or use IMAP but not keep
folders on the server, just in my outlook PST file so that if I fat-finger it
again they will go to deleted items.

Its seems to me like a serious flaw in IMAP protocols to me; unless its a
Godaddy prob and I need a better host?

I would really appreciate any suggestions.

Keith

 

[Diane Poremsky [MVP]]

IMAP messages ad folders are purged, not deleted. Did you look to see if its
in the deleted folder on the godaddy server?

RE: the comment about not leaving folders on the imap server - to do that
you need to move the mail off the server and into a new pst.

--
Diane Poremsky [MVP - Outlook]





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[Keith]

Thanks Diane,

Well I called GoDaddy yesterday and they said deleted folders are gone
forever! The folder is not in their "trash" folder.

Do you know if other email hosts do a better job of managing folders?

Thats why I was wondering about changing my rules to file messages in my PST
instead of in IMAP folders. Any advice on that?

I guess its a choice? Do I want the emails on the server or am I happy just
having them in my PST.

Quick follow up question. Are emails in my IMAP folders also saved in
Outlook in a PST file? IE if I were to change my mail host, do I lose my old
messages or has Outlook kept a copy for me?

Thanks so much for your help.

Keith

 

[Diane Poremsky [MVP]]

Emails from IMAP accounts are stored locally - but for permanent storage,
you need to download full message bodies. If you change accounts, the
messages are stored locally in the old IMAP but if you remove the messages
online then sync with outlook, they will be deleted locally unless you moved
them to a different pst.

If there are messages you need archived but don't need 'anywhere access' to
them, move them to a pst. But... unless you backup the pst, you could lose
them to a bad hard drive and won't be any farther ahead.

I doubt other IMAP servers handle deleted folders any differently, but I'm
not an expert on IMAP servers.

--
Diane Poremsky [MVP - Outlook]





EMO - a weekly newsletter about Outlook and Exchange:
(e-mail address removed)

You can access this newsgroup by visiting
http://www.microsoft.com/office/community/en-us/default.mspx or point your
newsreader to msnews.microsoft.com.

 

[Keith]

Hi Diane,

I guess I need to read IMAP 101 or something like that as I have a follow up
on deleting messages that I would appreciate your insight on.

As mentioned, if I delete a message using Outlook 2007 by hitting the delete
key, it seems to be gone forever. However... I have found that when I access
the same account using my iPhone, and delete a message - that message ends up
in the "trash" folder.

So my question is, how can I make Outlook behave like my iphone and move
messages to the "trash" folder when I hit delete instead of tossing them in
the proverbial bit bucket?

Thanks very much.

Keith

 

[Brian Tillman [MVP - Outlook]]

As mentioned, if I delete a message using Outlook 2007 by hitting the
delete
key, it seems to be gone forever.

You're probably using the "Hide Messages Marked for Deletion" view.

However... I have found that when I access
the same account using my iPhone, and delete a message - that message ends
up
in the "trash" folder.

So my question is, how can I make Outlook behave like my iphone and move
messages to the "trash" folder when I hit delete instead of tossing them
in
the proverbial bit bucket?

You can't because IMAP doesn't have a Trash folder. That's not how it
works. Perhaps your iPhone is accessing the mailbox with POP or it's
pretending there is a Trash folder like some other IMAP clients do. Outlook
won't do it;.

 

[Keith]

Thanks Brian,

I check and I was NOT using the Hide Messages Marked for Deletion view but I
turned it on to see how it looks.

What I want is deleted messages to appear in Trash or "Deleted Items" or
some other folder so I can recover them if I make a mistake.

The iPhone uses IMAP but the mail app has a section where you map its
"deleted mailbox" to a file on the server and I pointed it to Trash. So I
presume when I delete on the iPhone it moves it to trash.

I guess I'd like to be able to do that in Outlook. IE, when I hit delete,
it moves the message to trash. Right now it goes in the bit bucket so I
don't have the protection I had when using POP when I had a Deleted Items
folder. I guess I could manually move messages to Trash but that's not very
convenient.

I am surprised that a program as sophisticated as Outlook with all its
functionality cant handle this which seems to me like an essential function
for a mail client.

Keith

 

[Keith]

Oh and an interesting addition. I created a folder called "Deleted Items"
under the IMAP root directory and it now contains the same as the trash
folder. How does that happen?? Does Outlook recognize it and copy files
from Trash to it? I was hoping Outlook would put deleted messages in the
Deleted Items folder but it does not

 

[Brian Tillman [MVP - Outlook]]

I check and I was NOT using the Hide Messages Marked for Deletion view but
I
turned it on to see how it looks.

What I want is deleted messages to appear in Trash or "Deleted Items" or
some other folder so I can recover them if I make a mistake,

That's built into IMAP in Outlook. If you decide you want to recover a
message, you can mark it as undeleted, provided you don't purge it.

The iPhone uses IMAP but the mail app has a section where you map its
"deleted mailbox" to a file on the server and I pointed it to Trash. So I
presume when I delete on the iPhone it moves it to trash.

Then it's the iPhone that's performing the move and then the purge. It's
doing extra work using the IMAP protocol commands to mimic a Deleted Items
folder. IMAP, however, doesn't have the concept.

I guess I'd like to be able to do that in Outlook. IE, when I hit delete,
it moves the message to trash. Right now it goes in the bit bucket so I
don't have the protection I had when using POP when I had a Deleted Items
folder. I guess I could manually move messages to Trash but that's not
very
convenient.

Outlook cannot be made to behave that way and it's extremely unusual if the
server actually purges the messages when you delete them. That's not
standard IMAP protocol.

I am surprised that a program as sophisticated as Outlook with all its
functionality cant handle this which seems to me like an essential
function
for a mail client.

IMAP, when handled in a standard fashion by both the client and server
doesn't need a trash folder, since it's built into the protocol.

 

[Keith]

Thanks Brian,

Sorry for the delay. I somehow missed your reply.

Thank you so much for your help with this.

So I still have the problem and my GoDaddy email is up for renewal so I'm
not sure if I need to change my mail host or look for a mail client that
behaves like the iphone with IMAP?

You said "IMAP, when handled in a standard fashion by both the client and
server
doesn't need a trash folder, since it's built into the protocol. "

Could you fill me in on what that means? What should happen then I delete a
message with IMAP? Should the deleted message be saved in a certain folder
and if so what folder? Maybe its out there somewhere and I cant find it
though I have searched with the web email client and its gone. Incidentally
if I delete from the web client, the email ends up in the trash folder also.

 

[Brian Tillman [MVP - Outlook]]

So I still have the problem and my GoDaddy email is up for renewal so I'm
not sure if I need to change my mail host or look for a mail client that
behaves like the iphone with IMAP?

I'm not sure how to answer this.

You said "IMAP, when handled in a standard fashion by both the client and
server
doesn't need a trash folder, since it's built into the protocol. "

Could you fill me in on what that means? What should happen then I delete
a
message with IMAP? Should the deleted message be saved in a certain
folder
and if so what folder?

When you select a message in an IMAP account and click Delete, an IMAP
client will send a message to the server which will cause the server to mark
the message for deletion, but not actually delete it. Outlook will present
this action to you my drawing a line through the message in the folder's
list of messages. This is what signals to you that the message is to be
deleted, rather than moving the message to another folder (like Deleted
Items). Outlook sends the server another IMAP command, causing the server
to physically remove the messages, when you click Edit>Purge Deleted
Messages. Until that Purge command is sent, though, deleted items remain in
their original folders.

Incidentally if I delete from the web client, the email ends up in the
trash folder also.

A web client accesses the mailbox directly, not with a mail protocol like
IMAP, so behavior can (and usually will) be completely different in that
case.

 

[Keith]

Thanks Brian,

You have been extremely helpful but I am not making headway with GoDaddy.
What happens is that the messages are marked for deletion (with a line
through them) but then on the next send/receive they disappear for good

GoDaddy say its not their servers - they say that items are not purged until
they receive a purge command so...

Is it possible that my Outlook is somehow issuing the purge on the next
send/receive? Is there some "auto purge" setting?

All I can think to do is to drag and drop the messages to trash instead of
using the delete key but that is annoying. Can I create a macro to do that?

I read that Thunderbird supports specifying a Trash Folder in IMAP:
http://kb.mozillazine.org/IMAP_Trash_folder and I know that the iPhone
supports this. Maybe I need another client that offers this option. I would
prefer that deleted items be moved to another folder anyway instead of
staying in place with a line through them... I don't suppose MS plan to
enhance Outlook to play better with IMAP do they?

This is really frustrating...

 

[Keith]

I did find the "auto purge option":

Purge items when switching folders while online

But I do NOT have this selected.

 

[Keith]

I found here that someone has written VBS code to do this but its a shame
Outlook doesn't support it directly
http://www.axelsegebrecht.com/axel/computing/windows/deleting-imap-messages-in-microsoft-outlook/

 

[Brian Tillman [MVP - Outlook]]

You have been extremely helpful but I am not making headway with GoDaddy.
What happens is that the messages are marked for deletion (with a line
through them) but then on the next send/receive they disappear for good

GoDaddy say its not their servers - they say that items are not purged
until
they receive a purge command so...

Is it possible that my Outlook is somehow issuing the purge on the next
send/receive? Is there some "auto purge" setting?

Yes, Outlook 2007 has an autopurge setting in the IMAP account settings
wizard. I'm not at my Outlook 2007 system right now so I can't tell you
were it is (possibly on the Advanced tab of the account properties), but I
thought it applied only when you switched folders.

All I can think to do is to drag and drop the messages to trash instead of
using the delete key but that is annoying. Can I create a macro to do
that?

Maybe. I'm not an Outlook programmer. See
microsoft.public.outlook.program_vba or visit http://www.outlookcode.com/

I read that Thunderbird supports specifying a Trash Folder in IMAP:
http://kb.mozillazine.org/IMAP_Trash_folder and I know that the iPhone
supports this. Maybe I need another client that offers this option. I
would
prefer that deleted items be moved to another folder anyway instead of
staying in place with a line through them... I don't suppose MS plan to
enhance Outlook to play better with IMAP do they?

Commands for manipulation a trash folder are simply not in the IMAP protocol
suite. Thunderbird is moving the message, deleting it from the original
folder, and issuing the purge. Outlook prefers not to hide those actions
from you and forces you to perform them yourself. I have no idea what MS
plans to do. They don't consult me.

 

[Keith]

Thanks again Brian. I am surprised MS don't consult you. you seem like an
expert who gets to field a lot of user issues so our input would be valuable
I would think!

I found the auto purge option and it’s not checked but for whatever reason,
the messages are being purged from the server so I had to forget that!

Anyway, I found a VB macro that does what I want - moves messages to Trash.
I had to make a couple of minor changes but its working now.

It looks to me like Outlook developers mostly concentrate on Exchange as an
MS key product and don’t care too much about POP or IMAP. I found this post
on this forum back in 2004 from an MS developer saying that IMAP support is,
shall we say, lagging:

The current implementation was, back in the days when IMAP was first
implemented in Outlook, simply "the way IMAP works" - it was how pretty
much all the standard IMAP clients worked. Since then, though, much has
changed, and we're looking at improvements to IMAP for future versions of
Outlook.

It looks like none of that happened in OL 2007 so for now I will use a macro.

I think regardless of the IMAP spec, this is a function other clients
provide and MS should too. It’s much better to have all deleted items in one
place than to have them in their original folders but “marked for deletionâ€

Anyway, thanks again for your help Brian and I consider this a closed issue.

Keith

 

[Brian Tillman [MVP - Outlook]]

It looks to me like Outlook developers mostly concentrate on Exchange as
an
MS key product and don’t care too much about POP or IMAP. I found this
post
on this forum back in 2004 from an MS developer saying that IMAP support
is,
shall we say, lagging:

I think that Exchange is the main focus, but POP works quite well, in my
opinion. I'll agree, however, that IMAP is the poor stepchild as far as
transports go. I've never thought Outlook's IMAP implementation was done
well.

 

[TrishT65]

Thanks again Brian. I am surprised MS don't consult you. you seem like an
expert who gets to field a lot of user issues so our input would be valuable
I would think!

I found the auto purge option and it’s not checked but for whatever reason,
the messages are being purged from the server so I had to forget that!

Anyway, I found a VB macro that does what I want - moves messages to Trash.
I had to make a couple of minor changes but its working now.

It looks to me like Outlook developers mostly concentrate on Exchange as an
MS key product and don’t care too much about POP or IMAP. I found this post
on this forum back in 2004 from an MS developer saying that IMAP support is,
shall we say, lagging:

The current implementation was, back in the days when IMAP was first
implemented in Outlook, simply "the way IMAP works" - it was how pretty
much all the standard IMAP clients worked. Since then, though, much has
changed, and we're looking at improvements to IMAP for future versions of
Outlook.

It looks like none of that happened in OL 2007 so for now I will use a macro.

I think regardless of the IMAP spec, this is a function other clients
provide and MS should too. It’s much better to have all deleted items in one
place than to have them in their original folders but “marked for deletionâ€

Anyway, thanks again for your help Brian and I consider this a closed issue.

Keith

 

[TrishT65]

Hi Keith,
I know you "closed" this issue, but I'm having the same exact problem. I'd
love to know more about the VB macro you spoke of. Could you share how to
set that up, so that I too can move messages to trash easily (since IMAP and
Outlook aren't doing it)?
Thanks,
Trish