How many amps does an SATA hard drive draw?

B

Brian Kendig

I've got a PC that I built two years ago (from arstechnica.com's
Budget Box guide). I put a SATA drive in it, and it continually had
problems with drive corruption, so I recently put a new SATA drive
into it, which is also now having corruption issues. People keep
telling me I need a better power supply.

How many amps does a Serial ATA hard drive need?

My system is a Athlon A64 3000+ on a Socket 939 board with a PCI-E
GeForce 6600 256MB with 1.5GB RAM. It's got a DVD-RW drive which I
hardly ever use, my SATA 160GB drive, and an ATA 60GB drive for
backups. Rounding out the lineup are a floppy drive, a serial keyboard
and serial mouse, and a USB earphone/microphone.

Powering it right now is an A-Power 500W unit which provides 17A on
the +12V rail. Is this not enough? What amperage do I need?
 
P

Paul

Brian said:
I've got a PC that I built two years ago (from arstechnica.com's
Budget Box guide). I put a SATA drive in it, and it continually had
problems with drive corruption, so I recently put a new SATA drive
into it, which is also now having corruption issues. People keep
telling me I need a better power supply.

How many amps does a Serial ATA hard drive need?

My system is a Athlon A64 3000+ on a Socket 939 board with a PCI-E
GeForce 6600 256MB with 1.5GB RAM. It's got a DVD-RW drive which I
hardly ever use, my SATA 160GB drive, and an ATA 60GB drive for
backups. Rounding out the lineup are a floppy drive, a serial keyboard
and serial mouse, and a USB earphone/microphone.

Powering it right now is an A-Power 500W unit which provides 17A on
the +12V rail. Is this not enough? What amperage do I need?

The worst 3000+ there is, tops out at 89W. 89W/12V * (1/0.90) = 8.24 amps
at 90% Vcore conversion efficiency. You can look up your actual numbers,
on www.amdcompare.com , based on the OPN order number of the processor.

A 6600 video card, draws 12V @ 4A from the slot. Just a rough guess.
(I could look it up, but that won't be far off.)

Hard drives idle in the desktop at 12V @ 0.6A. There is some power from
the 5V rail, like 5V @ 1A, but we're working out the 12V draw right now.

The DVD won't draw appreciable current from 12V, until media is inserted
and starts to spin. I've measured my CD drive, and it draws 12V @ 1A when
the media spins at top speed. The boiler plate spec on CD drives is around
1.5A, and the more exotic opticals draw even more than that.

I allocate 12V @ 0.5A for fans, but you can check the label on those.

So, if you were playing a game with no DVD in the drive, the current on
the 12V rail would be:

8.24 + 4 + 0.6 + 0.6 + (0.0) + 0.5 = 13.94 amps

Your A-Power is just big enough (I like about 3 amps margin). If there is
a DVD in the drive at the same time, you're still OK.

A 500W rating is meaningless, unless the amps are put in the right place. If
you are offered 5V @ 40A, and the machine uses only 5A of the 40A total,
the power supply is poorly proportioned for the application. Modern
machine draw most of their power from the 12V rail, so excessive capacity
on the 3.3V and 5V rails doesn't help.

Now, tell me something. Does the ATA corrupt ? Doesn't it bother you,
that the SATA corrupts and the ATA doesn't ? Do some extended tests with
the ATA, and see if you can get any errors on it at all.

I'd say, like all problems, eliminate the potential causes one at a time.
Buy a decent power supply. For example, the power on this one, is an
unimpressive 470W, but notice how all the major rails are beefy.
It means any one individual rail can be heavily loaded, and still work well.
The sum total of all power consumptions, still cannot exceed 470W. Your machine
will not go over about 250W worst case. So total power is not the issue.
But current limitations on one rail *might* be.

+3.3V@28A,+5V@32A,+12V@26A,[email protected],[email protected] 470W total $75
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703011

Other things to play with:

1) Is the SATA cable in good shape ? You're not supposed to kink it.
Neither would I recommend tightly wrapping restraints around it.

2) You don't say what chipset the motherboard uses, but there have
been complaints about disk corruption with some Nvidia chipsets.
I've never seen any followup or resolution on those complaints -
like whether the individuals affected just threw away the boards
or what happened to them. Based on that, I'd Google the hell out
of your motherboard model number, chipset names/numbers, the
word "corruption" "disk" etc. If there is an issue, you'll find it.
I believe the corruption even has a characteristic pattern to it,
so when doing your bench testing, you may want to keep an eye out
for whether short strings of contiguous bytes are what is being
corrupted. That means doing file comparisons some how.

HTH,
Paul
 
S

Sleepy

Brian Kendig said:
I've got a PC that I built two years ago (from arstechnica.com's
Budget Box guide). I put a SATA drive in it, and it continually had
problems with drive corruption, so I recently put a new SATA drive
into it, which is also now having corruption issues. People keep
telling me I need a better power supply.

How many amps does a Serial ATA hard drive need?

My system is a Athlon A64 3000+ on a Socket 939 board with a PCI-E
GeForce 6600 256MB with 1.5GB RAM. It's got a DVD-RW drive which I
hardly ever use, my SATA 160GB drive, and an ATA 60GB drive for
backups. Rounding out the lineup are a floppy drive, a serial keyboard
and serial mouse, and a USB earphone/microphone.

Powering it right now is an A-Power 500W unit which provides 17A on
the +12V rail. Is this not enough? What amperage do I need?

your motherboard may only support SATA 1 and the newer HDDs are SATA 2.
sometimes you have to set the jumper on the drive to SATA 1 to get it to
work right.
 
B

Brian Kendig

your motherboard may only support SATA 1 and the newer HDDs are SATA 2.
sometimes you have to set the jumper on the drive to SATA 1 to get it to
work right.

It *is* true that my motherboard supports only SATA 1... but shouldn't
SATA 2 be backwards-compatible? I'll look to see if I need to set a
jumper on the drive...

I really appreciate y'all's help - lemme pose a few more details.

The first SATA drive in the system would fail to boot every now and
then. The Windows XP splash screen would appear, and the blue bars
would go by, then the screen would go dark - but instead of the blue
'Welcome' screen appearing, the screen would stay dark and the PC
would be completely unresponsive. Once this happened, it would happen
on every boot from then on, until I restored the drive from an image
(with Acronis True Image). Disk utilities never found any corruption
with the drive. Finally when the drive was a year old I started
getting read errors on it, and that's why I bought this new drive.

The new drive worked fine until last night, when it started
misidentifying itself during POST (instead of the drive's serial
number and capacity, it would display garbage) and being unreadable (a
'Bad or missing NTLOADER' error). Once I was able to get it to boot,
but then it gave me lots of read errors.

I think both drives are Western Digital. I was suspicious as to why
they'd both have problems. My system is extremely minimal; I don't
have a lot installed on it. The motherboard is an MSI RS480M2-IL; I
don't see an unusual number of drive corruption issues with it when I
search the web. No ATA drive has become corrupted on this PC. The SATA
cable is in perfect shape, but that's a good idea; I'll swap it out. I
think stress-testing this computer is a good idea - what's a good
utility for that?

Any ideas about all this would be gratefully welcomed! It's a pain to
have to keep restoring my system from backups.
 
B

Brian Kendig

Hmm. Something that just occurred to me - this failed 160GB SATA 3.5"
hard drive is actually a brand-new Hitachi DeskStar. I've heard the
DeskStars have a lot of problems. Maybe I was just unlucky enough to
get two bad SATA drives in a row, and the power throughout the rest of
the system is fine?

Anyone here have opinions on the DeskStar drives? Are they really that
bad?
 
L

lisa swallowz

Brian Kendig said:
It *is* true that my motherboard supports only SATA 1... but shouldn't
SATA 2 be backwards-compatible? I'll look to see if I need to set a
jumper on the drive...

I really appreciate y'all's help - lemme pose a few more details.

The first SATA drive in the system would fail to boot every now and
then. The Windows XP splash screen would appear, and the blue bars
would go by, then the screen would go dark - but instead of the blue
'Welcome' screen appearing, the screen would stay dark and the PC
would be completely unresponsive. Once this happened, it would happen
on every boot from then on, until I restored the drive from an image
(with Acronis True Image). Disk utilities never found any corruption
with the drive. Finally when the drive was a year old I started
getting read errors on it, and that's why I bought this new drive.

The new drive worked fine until last night, when it started
misidentifying itself during POST (instead of the drive's serial
number and capacity, it would display garbage) and being unreadable (a
'Bad or missing NTLOADER' error). Once I was able to get it to boot,
but then it gave me lots of read errors.

I think both drives are Western Digital. I was suspicious as to why
they'd both have problems. My system is extremely minimal; I don't
have a lot installed on it. The motherboard is an MSI RS480M2-IL; I
don't see an unusual number of drive corruption issues with it when I
search the web. No ATA drive has become corrupted on this PC. The SATA
cable is in perfect shape, but that's a good idea; I'll swap it out. I
think stress-testing this computer is a good idea - what's a good
utility for that?

Any ideas about all this would be gratefully welcomed! It's a pain to
have to keep restoring my system from backups.
check your memory
 
P

Paul

Brian said:
It *is* true that my motherboard supports only SATA 1... but shouldn't
SATA 2 be backwards-compatible? I'll look to see if I need to set a
jumper on the drive...

I really appreciate y'all's help - lemme pose a few more details.

The first SATA drive in the system would fail to boot every now and
then. The Windows XP splash screen would appear, and the blue bars
would go by, then the screen would go dark - but instead of the blue
'Welcome' screen appearing, the screen would stay dark and the PC
would be completely unresponsive. Once this happened, it would happen
on every boot from then on, until I restored the drive from an image
(with Acronis True Image). Disk utilities never found any corruption
with the drive. Finally when the drive was a year old I started
getting read errors on it, and that's why I bought this new drive.

The new drive worked fine until last night, when it started
misidentifying itself during POST (instead of the drive's serial
number and capacity, it would display garbage) and being unreadable (a
'Bad or missing NTLOADER' error). Once I was able to get it to boot,
but then it gave me lots of read errors.

I think both drives are Western Digital. I was suspicious as to why
they'd both have problems. My system is extremely minimal; I don't
have a lot installed on it. The motherboard is an MSI RS480M2-IL; I
don't see an unusual number of drive corruption issues with it when I
search the web. No ATA drive has become corrupted on this PC. The SATA
cable is in perfect shape, but that's a good idea; I'll swap it out. I
think stress-testing this computer is a good idea - what's a good
utility for that?

Any ideas about all this would be gratefully welcomed! It's a pain to
have to keep restoring my system from backups.

Well, that is a switch. It is an ATI chipset board.

http://www.pcstats.com/articleimages/200506/MSIRS480M2IL_full.jpg

Does the IXP400 Southbridge get hot ? Too hot to touch for more than 2 seconds ?
The Southbridge is next to the four orange SATA connectors.

If Windows gets enough read errors from a drive, it should reduce the
transfer mode setting for the drive. Eventually, Windows would set the
drive for PIO transfer (at maybe 4MB/sec). It doesn't sound like that
is happening. Maybe that means all the errors are link errors (SATA cable
packets corrupted in some way). While packets may be protected by
CRC, I suppose eventually a bad one will leak through and escape detection
and retransmission. I don't know if there are any statistics counters
in Windows, that can help in this regard.

If this was my home project, I'd probably install Linux (like Knoppix from
knopper.net) and try some tests there. If the problem is purely a hardware
based one, then the corruptions should be repeatable. If things run just
fine, then that would suggest a driver in Windows is contributing in some
way.

If you just want to be shed of the thing, I'd switch disk drive brands
and try again.

Paul
 
B

Brian Kendig

If this was my home project, I'd probably install Linux (like Knoppix from
knopper.net) and try some tests there. If the problem is purely a hardware
based one, then the corruptions should be repeatable. If things run just
fine, then that would suggest a driver in Windows is contributing in some
way.

Thanks very much for all the tips - it's really helped to have some
different angles from which to explore this problem.

I'm thinking right now that this DeskStar drive has just gone bad,
since it was working fine for two months then suddenly started having
serious problems. And it's not a Windows driver problem, because it
reports garbage characters for the drive size and serial number during
POST, and it can't even boot into Windows now. So I'm guessing that
this drive went bad, and the previous drive (the WD which had a
different set of problems) was bad in other ways, and I was just
unlucky enough to get two bad SATA drives in a row, and getting a
warranty replacement for this WD 160GB will set everything straight.

There's a slim chance it might be the motherboard's fault. This MSI
RS480M2-IL is actually an RMA replacement for an RS480M board (I think
that's what it was - it was the revision immediately prior to this
one) which experienced severe stability problems when used with the
MSI GeForce 6600 PCI-E card. I'm still not entirely happy with MSI; I
don't think my next mb will come from them.
 

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