How does a drive go bad when not in use?

[bxf]

I replaced my laptop drive four months ago, just to increase speed
(7200 RPM) and capacity.

After I replaced the disk, I put the old one in an external case, tried
it a bit, copied files to and from, etc. and everything was fine. Then
I just left the case (with the disk) lying around.

Because of concerns I have about the replacement disk (it's making some
noises), this past weekend I wanted to check the old disk to ensure all
is ready to switch if necessary. When I tried to format it (either NTFS
or FAT32) I got a message like "cannot format", without any
explanation. I tried to run the disk checking utility (Properties >
Tools > Error Checking - is this CHKDSK?) asking to recover and fix bad
sectors, etc. and it terminates, but I can't recall whether or not it
gave a message. If it did, I know that it said nothing more than
something like "can't complete". I never received anything that
resembles an explanation.

Trying to narrow down the possibilities, I split the disk into four
partitions (roughly 10GB each), and tried to format one partition at a
time. One formatted successfully, but I got stuck on the other three. I
tried writing to two of the bad partitions and I was able to write to
to full capacity, but I was not able to read everything, as it just got
stuck one particular file. Trying to access this file or the next one
reulted in a stuck situation. Also, I received a mesage "path too deep"
at one point when trying to use the disk. Running CHKDSK from Command
Prompt on each partition without any switches gave no errors. Can't
recall what happened when I tried to use the /f switch.

I don't know if the formatting process is identical to the one that
runs when installs Windows, so I put the drive in my laptop and tried
to format as part of Windows install. It got stuck at 8%, with no
messages. This also elimnates the possibility that the problem is
related to the use of an external case via USB.

I get no messages at any time when I just try to use the disk, and
there is nothing in any event log. ALl I hear is some repeated seeking
and clicking noises.

I'm not going to lose sleep over the disk (even though I can't buy
these things at US prices), but I'd like to know how a disk becomes
disfunctional just sitting there in a case without being used or
dropped or banged. Of course, if there is some tool I can use to make
the disk useable again, that would be a bonus.

Any ideas?

 

[Peter]

I replaced my laptop drive four months ago, just to increase speed

(7200 RPM) and capacity.

After I replaced the disk, I put the old one in an external case, tried
it a bit, copied files to and from, etc. and everything was fine. Then
I just left the case (with the disk) lying around.

Because of concerns I have about the replacement disk (it's making some
noises), this past weekend I wanted to check the old disk to ensure all
is ready to switch if necessary. When I tried to format it (either NTFS
or FAT32) I got a message like "cannot format", without any
explanation. I tried to run the disk checking utility (Properties >
Tools > Error Checking - is this CHKDSK?) asking to recover and fix bad
sectors, etc. and it terminates, but I can't recall whether or not it
gave a message. If it did, I know that it said nothing more than
something like "can't complete". I never received anything that
resembles an explanation.

Trying to narrow down the possibilities, I split the disk into four
partitions (roughly 10GB each), and tried to format one partition at a
time. One formatted successfully, but I got stuck on the other three. I
tried writing to two of the bad partitions and I was able to write to
to full capacity, but I was not able to read everything, as it just got
stuck one particular file. Trying to access this file or the next one
reulted in a stuck situation. Also, I received a mesage "path too deep"
at one point when trying to use the disk. Running CHKDSK from Command
Prompt on each partition without any switches gave no errors. Can't
recall what happened when I tried to use the /f switch.

I don't know if the formatting process is identical to the one that
runs when installs Windows, so I put the drive in my laptop and tried
to format as part of Windows install. It got stuck at 8%, with no
messages. This also elimnates the possibility that the problem is
related to the use of an external case via USB.

I get no messages at any time when I just try to use the disk, and
there is nothing in any event log. ALl I hear is some repeated seeking
and clicking noises.

I'm not going to lose sleep over the disk (even though I can't buy
these things at US prices), but I'd like to know how a disk becomes
disfunctional just sitting there in a case without being used or
dropped or banged. Of course, if there is some tool I can use to make
the disk useable again, that would be a bonus.

Any ideas?

Run full diagnostics of your laptop first. Ideally run continuous tests for
a longer period.

 

[bxf]

Run full diagnostics of your laptop first. Ideally run continuous tests for
a longer period.

With the exception of some worrying noises coming out of my CURRENT
drive (mentioned in another post), there is absolutely no indication of
anything wrong with my laptop. Everything is working "perfectly" fine.
The problems I describe really pertain to my trying to use the OLD disk
in a USB2 enclosure (although, as I mentioned, I did try it in the
laptop itself, just to see what would happen, and it failed there as
well while trying to format).

The failing disk is a Seagate Momentus, and I wonder if there are some
utilities that go beyond CHKDSK.

 

[Peter]

Run full diagnostics of your laptop first. Ideally run continuous tests
for

With the exception of some worrying noises coming out of my CURRENT
drive (mentioned in another post), there is absolutely no indication of
anything wrong with my laptop. Everything is working "perfectly" fine.
The problems I describe really pertain to my trying to use the OLD disk
in a USB2 enclosure (although, as I mentioned, I did try it in the
laptop itself, just to see what would happen, and it failed there as
well while trying to format).

The failing disk is a Seagate Momentus, and I wonder if there are some
utilities that go beyond CHKDSK.

I would run laptop diagnostics anyway. Just to have a second proof that
"everything is working perfectly fine".
How is that USB2 enclosure powered?

 

[bxf]

I would run laptop diagnostics anyway. Just to have a second proof that
"everything is working perfectly fine".

OK. Any suggestions as to what tool(s) I should be using?

How is that USB2 enclosure powered?

Just from the USB port (don't forget, this is a 2.5" drive). The reason
I tried the disk directly in the laptop was to eliminate the USB
interface as a possible cause of any errors. As I mentioned previously,
when I tried to format directly in the laptop, it got stuck at 8%,
with no message or anything, so (external) power is not an issue here.

I can use the disk "normally" without any obvious evidence of problems,
but I assume that is only because I am not hitting the bad spots,
whereas, of course, formatting touches everything. Having said that, I
just realized that it is entirely possible that the disk was f***ed all
along, but I never noticed it because I never formatted it (I never had
a reason). That possibility makes more sense to me than the likelyhood
of the disk suddenly going bonkers while it's not in use.

 

[Peter]

I would run laptop diagnostics anyway. Just to have a second proof that

OK. Any suggestions as to what tool(s) I should be using?
http://support.packardbell.com/uk/mypc/index.php?PibItemNr=6917050700#show


Just from the USB port (don't forget, this is a 2.5" drive). The reason
I tried the disk directly in the laptop was to eliminate the USB
interface as a possible cause of any errors. As I mentioned previously,
when I tried to format directly in the laptop, it got stuck at 8%,
with no message or anything, so (external) power is not an issue here.

I can use the disk "normally" without any obvious evidence of problems,
but I assume that is only because I am not hitting the bad spots,
whereas, of course, formatting touches everything. Having said that, I
just realized that it is entirely possible that the disk was f***ed all
along, but I never noticed it because I never formatted it (I never had
a reason). That possibility makes more sense to me than the likelyhood
of the disk suddenly going bonkers while it's not in use.

Use PB "Diagnostic tools for RAM and HDD" first to test your HD.

 

[bxf]

http://support.packardbell.com/uk/mypc/index.php?PibItemNr=6917050700#show

Use PB "Diagnostic tools for RAM and HDD" first to test your HD.

Interesting choice, given that my machine is a PB. I probably have
these things sitting around somewhere, since I saved the delivered
system's files before installing my own OS and everything else.

I'll have a go. Thanks.

 

[Rod Speed]

Peter wrote

With the exception of some worrying noises coming
out of my CURRENT drive (mentioned in another post),

That is a real worry if the noise is coming from the drive.

there is absolutely no indication of anything wrong with my
laptop. Everything is working "perfectly" fine. The problems
I describe really pertain to my trying to use the OLD disk in
a USB2 enclosure (although, as I mentioned, I did try it in
the laptop itself, just to see what would happen, and it
failed there as well while trying to format).

It may have failed if you had tried to format it in the laptop too.

The failing disk is a Seagate Momentus, and I wonder
if there are some utilities that go beyond CHKDSK.

Yes, Seagate's diagnostic for the drive.

 

[Rod Speed]

I replaced my laptop drive four months ago,
just to increase speed (7200 RPM) and capacity.

After I replaced the disk, I put the old one in an external case,
tried it a bit, copied files to and from, etc. and everything was
fine. Then I just left the case (with the disk) lying around.

Because of concerns I have about the replacement disk (it's making
some noises), this past weekend I wanted to check the old disk to
ensure all is ready to switch if necessary. When I tried to format it
(either NTFS or FAT32) I got a message like "cannot format", without
any explanation. I tried to run the disk checking utility (Properties
bad sectors, etc. and it terminates, but I can't recall whether or
not it gave a message. If it did, I know that it said nothing more
than something like "can't complete". I never received anything that
resembles an explanation.

Trying to narrow down the possibilities, I split the disk into four
partitions (roughly 10GB each), and tried to format one partition at a
time. One formatted successfully, but I got stuck on the other three.
I tried writing to two of the bad partitions and I was able to write
to to full capacity, but I was not able to read everything, as it
just got stuck one particular file. Trying to access this file or the
next one reulted in a stuck situation. Also, I received a mesage
"path too deep" at one point when trying to use the disk. Running
CHKDSK from Command Prompt on each partition without any switches
gave no errors. Can't recall what happened when I tried to use the /f switch.

I don't know if the formatting process is identical to the one that
runs when installs Windows, so I put the drive in my laptop and
tried to format as part of Windows install. It got stuck at 8%,
with no messages. This also elimnates the possibility that the
problem is related to the use of an external case via USB.

I get no messages at any time when I just try to use
the disk, and there is nothing in any event log. ALl I
hear is some repeated seeking and clicking noises.

That indicates that the drive is recalibrating, normally
when it is having problems reading some sectors.

I'm not going to lose sleep over the disk (even though
I can't buy these things at US prices), but I'd like to
know how a disk becomes disfunctional just sitting there
in a case without being used or dropped or banged.

They can curl up and die when they are replaced,

Some drives can develop bad sectors if they arent
getting enough power, in this case in the external case.

The laptop may be killing drives since the new drive
is also making what appears to be recalibration noises.

Of course, if there is some tool I can use to make
the disk useable again, that would be a bonus.

Any ideas?

See what the Everest says about the SMART data and
run the hard drive manufacturer's diagnostics on the drive.
If its a Toshiba, use Hitachi's DFT.

 

[bxf]

That is a real worry if the noise is coming from the drive.

Yes, that's why we have another post on the subject.

It may have failed if you had tried to format it in the laptop too.


Yes, Seagate's diagnostic for the drive.

Gotta get my hands on this one somehow, I suppose.

 

[bxf]

That indicates that the drive is recalibrating, normally
when it is having problems reading some sectors.

Yes, and it certainly has problems because it goes on "forever". It is
even a bit difficult to cancel the FORMAT, which I must do eventually.
Most of the time I'm forced to pull out the USB cable.

They can curl up and die when they are replaced,

Poor baby. If only I knew!

Some drives can develop bad sectors if they arent
getting enough power, in this case in the external case.

Well, I actually manage to run without any problems a capture device
that takes much more than the 500ma that a USB port is supposed to
deliver, so I can tell you that this laptop's USB ports have plenty of
juice. More to the point perhaps is the fact that I haven't really used
the drive in the case beyond some quick tests at the time I replaced
the the drive in the laptop. That's it. Of course, this doesn't
disprove your comment.

The laptop may be killing drives since the new drive
is also making what appears to be recalibration noises.

That's all I need!

See what the Everest says about the SMART data and
run the hard drive manufacturer's diagnostics on the drive.
If its a Toshiba, use Hitachi's DFT.

I think I looked, but I didn't see Everest SMART data for a USB device.
I'll have another look.

Going home now. A demain.

 

[Rod Speed]

Yes, and it certainly has problems because it goes on "forever". It is
even a bit difficult to cancel the FORMAT, which I must do eventually.
Most of the time I'm forced to pull out the USB cable.

Poor baby. If only I knew!

Yeah, best to put a bullet in it and put it out of its misery.

Well, I actually manage to run without any problems a capture device
that takes much more than the 500ma that a USB port is supposed to
deliver, so I can tell you that this laptop's USB ports have plenty of
juice. More to the point perhaps is the fact that I haven't really
used the drive in the case beyond some quick tests at the time I
replaced the the drive in the laptop. That's it. Of course, this
doesn't disprove your comment.

That's all I need!

Always been one for glad tidings.

I think I looked, but I didn't see Everest SMART data for a USB device.

I didnt mean that, I meant for the drives used internally in the laptop.

ll have another look.

Going home now. A demain.

You one of those frogs ?

 

[bxf]

Yeah, best to put a bullet in it and put it out of its misery.




Always been one for glad tidings.

Yes, we've all noticed. I can hardly wait for Christmas.

I didnt mean that, I meant for the drives used internally in the laptop.

Well, since I wasn't able to format the drive, I have no OS on it, and
there is no other way for me to use a drive. However, I am able to do a
quick format, so in fact it may be possible for me to install Windows
on it then view the SMART data. Another one for the weekend.

FWIW, I tried again the Error Checking process that one invokes through
Properties > Tools... which I assume is the equivalent of CHKDSK /f.
The thing made the HDD (connected via USB) very hot for the first half
hour or so but kept on going. After awhile it ran cooler but seemed to
be making no progress, even though the drive's red and green lights
were coming on for some time. After a couple of hours it finally
stopped with the message (are you ready for this?) "Windows was unable
to complete the disk check". I love these informative diagnostic
messages!

You one of those frogs ?

Naw, it just came out, don't ask me why, though I do speak the language
some. "Ciao" would have been more appropriate, given my present
location.

 

[mike]

I replaced my laptop drive four months ago, just to increase speed
(7200 RPM) and capacity.

After I replaced the disk, I put the old one in an external case, tried
it a bit, copied files to and from, etc. and everything was fine. Then
I just left the case (with the disk) lying around.

Because of concerns I have about the replacement disk (it's making some
noises), this past weekend I wanted to check the old disk to ensure all
is ready to switch if necessary. When I tried to format it (either NTFS
or FAT32) I got a message like "cannot format", without any
explanation. I tried to run the disk checking utility (Properties >
Tools > Error Checking - is this CHKDSK?) asking to recover and fix bad
sectors, etc. and it terminates, but I can't recall whether or not it
gave a message. If it did, I know that it said nothing more than
something like "can't complete". I never received anything that
resembles an explanation.

Trying to narrow down the possibilities, I split the disk into four
partitions (roughly 10GB each), and tried to format one partition at a
time. One formatted successfully, but I got stuck on the other three. I
tried writing to two of the bad partitions and I was able to write to
to full capacity, but I was not able to read everything, as it just got
stuck one particular file. Trying to access this file or the next one
reulted in a stuck situation. Also, I received a mesage "path too deep"
at one point when trying to use the disk. Running CHKDSK from Command
Prompt on each partition without any switches gave no errors. Can't
recall what happened when I tried to use the /f switch.

I don't know if the formatting process is identical to the one that
runs when installs Windows, so I put the drive in my laptop and tried
to format as part of Windows install. It got stuck at 8%, with no
messages. This also elimnates the possibility that the problem is
related to the use of an external case via USB.

I get no messages at any time when I just try to use the disk, and
there is nothing in any event log. ALl I hear is some repeated seeking
and clicking noises.

I'm not going to lose sleep over the disk (even though I can't buy
these things at US prices), but I'd like to know how a disk becomes
disfunctional just sitting there in a case without being used or
dropped or banged. Of course, if there is some tool I can use to make
the disk useable again, that would be a bonus.

Any ideas?

When two very smooth surfaces come in contact, they stick together.
In the disk world, it's called sticktion.
In the early days, this was a BIG problem. I've seen heads ripped right
out of the mount. Other times a piece of the surface stays stuck to the
head. It doesn't take much...
Two decades later, this problem is supposed to have been solved. Maybe
you got lucky and the builder forgot to put the K-Y on the surface.
mike

--
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Return address is VALID but some sites block emails
with links. Delete this sig when replying.
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Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below.
MAKE THE OBVIOUS CHANGES TO THE LINK
ht<removethis>tp://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/

 

[bxf]

When two very smooth surfaces come in contact, they stick together.
In the disk world, it's called sticktion.

I thought you were pulling my leg with this high tech term "sticktion".
In my attempt to formulate a witty reply, I did a search and was
surprised that this term is totally real. Actually, I have some
awareness of this phenomenon but never thought that it had a name. Oh,
I feel so enlightened!

In the early days, this was a BIG problem. I've seen heads ripped right
out of the mount. Other times a piece of the surface stays stuck to the
head. It doesn't take much...
Two decades later, this problem is supposed to have been solved. Maybe
you got lucky and the builder forgot to put the K-Y on the surface.

I'll see if I can open up the drive's case just enough to squeeze some
in.

 

[Rod Speed]

Yes, we've all noticed. I can hardly wait for Christmas.

You dont qualify for Xmas, you've likely killed two drives.

Reprehensible behaviour.

Well, since I wasn't able to format the drive, I have no
OS on it, and there is no other way for me to use a drive.

You can run Everest on the new drive, and see if the
cyclic noise is due to recalibrating. Unlikely, but worth
confirming since its so easy to run Everest on it.

That would confirm whether the laptop is killing drives.

However, I am able to do a quick format, so in fact it
may be possible for me to install Windows on it then
view the SMART data. Another one for the weekend.

FWIW, I tried again the Error Checking process that one invokes
through Properties > Tools... which I assume is the equivalent of
CHKDSK /f. The thing made the HDD (connected via USB) very
hot for the first half hour or so but kept on going. After awhile it ran
cooler but seemed to be making no progress, even though the drive's
red and green lights were coming on for some time. After a couple of
hours it finally stopped with the message (are you ready for this?)
"Windows was unable to complete the disk check". I love these
informative diagnostic messages!

Yeah, the hard drive manufacturer's diagnostic
is generally better in that situation, tho again,
its generally better with the drive in the laptop.

 

[Rod Speed]

When two very smooth surfaces come in contact, they stick together. In the
disk world, it's called sticktion. In the early days, this was a BIG problem.

But it doesnt produce the symptoms he is seeing.

I've seen heads ripped right out of the mount. Other times a piece of the
surface stays stuck to the head. It doesn't take much...
Two decades later, this problem is supposed to have been solved.

It has.

Maybe you got lucky and the builder forgot to put the K-Y on the surface.

It wasnt fixed by surface lubrication, it was fixed by not having
the heads land on the surface when the drive stops rotating.
The heads should never touch the surface with modern drives.

 

[bxf]

You dont qualify for Xmas, you've likely killed two drives.

Reprehensible behaviour.

Well, now that the other drive's problem seem to be a fan problem, do I
get a reprieve?

You can run Everest on the new drive, and see if the
cyclic noise is due to recalibrating. Unlikely, but worth
confirming since its so easy to run Everest on it.

Moot point now that we've established (other post) that the new dive is
not at fault.

That would confirm whether the laptop is killing drives.
Ditto.



Yeah, the hard drive manufacturer's diagnostic
is generally better in that situation, tho again,
its generally better with the drive in the laptop.

I'm gonna try to come up with something.

Going home now.

Y'all take care.

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

But it doesnt produce the symptoms he is seeing.


It has.


It wasnt fixed by surface lubrication, it was fixed by not having
the heads land on the surface when the drive stops rotating.

Nope.
That's actually one application where stiction may still occur when the
heads fail to be parked on the ramp.

The heads should never touch the surface with modern drives.

Nonsense. Plenty of drives still have no ramps.

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

Well, now that the other drive's problem seem
to be a fan problem, do I get a reprieve?

Never been into reprieves, thats why I favor the death penalty.

That ensure they cant do another crime too.

Moot point now that we've established
(other post) that the new dive is not at fault.
Yep.


Yep.

I'm gonna try to come up with something.

Going home now.

Y'all take care.

OK.