How do TINY speakers produce such BIG sound?

S

spencer anderson

they produce great sound because of the nano drivers they have installed
within them. Take bose for example, they used the latest technology to
surround you in music, movies, games, etc.
 
R

Roy L. Fuchs

even some headphones with a 8mm diameter speaker can sound good.

At high power levels the cone has to move quite a long way. I believe that
suspending a small cone so that it can move a long way is the hard part.
No. It is easy. Doing it so it will last is the hard part.
 
A

Alex Coleman

Yes it is not the cone size that is important, it should only pump
the air. It is how the cone is coupled to the outside world. An
example is the exponential horn loud speaker, where a very small
cone is efficientl coupled to the real world. The closer a design
can get to this is what one would aim for. The practical problem
with a really good exponential horn is of course due to space
considerations.

Paradoxically, it seems to me that these devices with the micro
speaker have no space for anything like a horn. There is just a
micro speaker and it is stuck to the iner surface of the hard plastic
casing which has a series of seemingly inadequate perforations.
 
A

Alex Coleman

they produce great sound because of the nano drivers they have
installed within them. Take bose for example, they used the latest
technology to surround you in music, movies, games, etc.


What exactly is a nano driver?

Google does not comes up much apart from the name of some Nano iPod and
its software drivers. Or sets of golf clubs!
 
L

Lostgallifreyan

There is just a
micro speaker and it is stuck to the iner surface of the hard plastic
casing which has a series of seemingly inadequate perforations.

Exactly. :) While the sealed baffle is NOT the most efficient, at all, it
does extend the bass response. If the case shell is hard enough, and the
driver has a neodymium iron boron magnet (as is likely at that small size
to increase efficiency), then the smaller the airflow through the case, the
stronger the bass. I mentioned in another post the use of pulsed energy,
compressing the sound such that the decays are more abrupt than usual,
falling to a lower level than usual, leaving the attacks to stand out. That
makes the sound 'punchier', and that allows a strong drive over shorter
periods to allow power saving and some way to overcome the losses due to
inefficient coupling. There may well be other tricks too, like the shifting
of amplitude from the bass fundamental to the next few harmonics.
 
L

Lostgallifreyan

What exactly is a nano driver?

Google does not comes up much apart from the name of some Nano iPod and
its software drivers. Or sets of golf clubs!

Good question. Even if you add bose to the terms, then try again after
changing to the Google suggestion of nonodrive, I don't see any different.
Perhaps it's related to the term 'plug top' which wasn't in the training I
was given 20 years ago, but seems to be both current and dating back 40
years. Whatever was wrong with 'plug and socket'? :) WHile we're at it,
could these new terms mean that an incandescent lamp will be known as a
'bulb' to differentiate from a 'tube'? And if anyone has any advance
warning of impending legislation/convention/regulation to cease calling a
spade a spade, I'd welcome the head's up. That is all. >:)
 
E

Edu

I think it has to do with the frequencies you want to reproduce. To
play bass frequencies you need to move more air masses. To play treble
frequencies you don't need to move much air. Have you tried to play a
techno song with your mp3 mobile? The drums are aweful. But the high
frequencies are almost cristal clear. Never ask a good response to bass
freqs in a 1/2"x1/2" speaker, I suppose...:)
 
V

VWWall

CBFalconer said:
Look up the Klipshorn, and folded horns in general. The latter
often use the corners of a room as the final part of the horn
mechanism, and can be very efficient.

I built a "Klipschorn" from drawings one of my fellow engineers at Bell
Labs drew up in 1950. With the popularity of stereo, it was hard to
find a room with corners in the right place, but it made a wondrous
sound! :)

From my post of 5/6/06 "Speaker impedance":

".... I recall talking to Paul Klipsch, the inventor of the "Klipsch
horn". This was a speaker enclosure about six feet tall and four feet
wide that sat in the corner of a room and used the corner walls and
floor as an extension of the horn. Paul contended that there was no
such thing as a "small" low frequency wave."

I've often wondered what he might think of the speakers they're now
offering under his name!

Virg Wall, P.E.
 
K

kony

I think this is what SRL Labs's WOW technology is all about.


No it's about the other parameters of proper design.

A speaker housing and entire device cabinet that doesn't
resonant. An amp circuit that can provide the necessary
current without severe distortion. A speaker that can
likewise handle it.

Many simply thought the size of the speaker was the main
criteria when it is simply that small speakers are also more
commonly very cheap ones. Someone could make a really low
quality larger speaker, put it in a terribly resonant
cabinet and drive it will too low a wattage amp and it too
would sound terrible... though tend to have more bass.
 
A

Alex Coleman

Exactly. :) While the sealed baffle is NOT the most efficient, at
all, it does extend the bass response. If the case shell is hard
enough, and the driver has a neodymium iron boron magnet (as is
likely at that small size to increase efficiency), then the smaller
the airflow through the case, the stronger the bass. I mentioned in
another post the use of pulsed energy, compressing the sound such
that the decays are more abrupt than usual, falling to a lower
level than usual, leaving the attacks to stand out. That makes the
sound 'punchier', and that allows a strong drive over shorter
periods to allow power saving and some way to overcome the losses
due to inefficient coupling. There may well be other tricks too,
like the shifting of amplitude from the bass fundamental to the
next few harmonics.

What you say seems to make a lot of sense to me.

It seems also to be similar to what SRS Labs provides in their audio
rendering products. http://www.srslabs.com/ae-techindex820.asp.

That link leads to things like these:

Ehnaced spatial rendering and sound impact
http://www.srslabs.com/ae-theoryofoperation8282.asp

Bass enhancement thru harmonics
http://www.srslabs.com/ae-theoryofoperation8272.asp

etc
 
L

Lostgallifreyan

No it's about the other parameters of proper design.

A speaker housing and entire device cabinet that doesn't
resonant. An amp circuit that can provide the necessary
current without severe distortion. A speaker that can
likewise handle it.

Many simply thought the size of the speaker was the main
criteria when it is simply that small speakers are also more
commonly very cheap ones. Someone could make a really low
quality larger speaker, put it in a terribly resonant
cabinet and drive it will too low a wattage amp and it too
would sound terrible... though tend to have more bass.

No again. >:) He's right.
There are two diverging methods now. You're talking about the pure form,
the striving for true hi-fi, where basic techniques are refined.

THis thread isn't about that though. It's about how speakers small enough
to have no chance of rendering real air moving capability without shaking
themselves to brittle fatigued pieces, mounted in tiny sealed baffles that
couldn't accept such movements without developing deap-sea pressures even
if such air movemnt were possible from those little speakers, can still
somehow produce good bass. All kinds of non-purist tricks must be used.

Actually, some of those tricks should be used even by the purists. The mani
one being panning and balance set by delay and not only by varing the
signal level. Try it with a flanger effect, set the feedback to zero,
modulation off, and adjust the sub-millisecond delays slowly to afect an
already-panned signal. This simulates the tiny delay our heads cause to
incoming sounds (That's what the 'head related transfer functions' thing is
about, btw). This, combined with subtle low-pass filtering, can make a
signal pan well beyond the speakers.

There are several reasons why such tricks are not used in purist hi-fi:
1. Expense. Until recently, it's been prohibitive.
2. Subjectivity. The delay needed to make a degree of panning depends on
ear and head shape.
3. The effect has been used as a gimmick, and has got a bad reputation in a
purist context.

If I were designing a balance control for hi-fi based on this I'd have a
main balance control that had a couple of smaller controls beside it, one
for filter, one for delay. To set it up, pan main hard left, then adjust
delay for making the sound go to best extreme for proper location left for
whoever is going to listen. Check it again on the right, then use the main,
then adjust the filter till it feels right. It's more complex than the
usual set of controls, but not much. It's no good setting up digital
poresets, a thing like that has to be as hands-on as the controls we've got
used to over decades.

Not sure whether the bass enhancement thing counts so well for hi-fi use
though. It might in active speakers though, where the aim is to match the
power gain stage with the transducer to air coupling. When you have that
much control over the output device, it probably can get hi-fi results for
a small bookshelf system.
 
L

Lostgallifreyan

An extra point:
If you can try that flanger experiment, set the amplitude on each channel
the same. :)
What's amazing about this, is the delay part of the panned signal can place
the location further left without level difference than the level
difference can do without the delay, even when the level is full in one
channel and ABSENT in the other!

That should be enough to convince you. But you'll have to do it. Don't just
take my word for it.
 
K

kony

An extra point:
If you can try that flanger experiment, set the amplitude on each channel
the same. :)
What's amazing about this, is the delay part of the panned signal can place
the location further left without level difference than the level
difference can do without the delay, even when the level is full in one
channel and ABSENT in the other!

That should be enough to convince you. But you'll have to do it. Don't just
take my word for it.


I'll take your word for it, because I will always be a
purist and never wish for any digital REprocessing of the
signal.

I built my own headphone/pre/power amps from scratch though,
I'm pickier than most.
 
L

Lostgallifreyan

I'll take your word for it, because I will always be a
purist and never wish for any digital REprocessing of the
signal.

I built my own headphone/pre/power amps from scratch though,
I'm pickier than most.

Actually I don't either. :) No tone controls, only gain, and two Mackie
HR828's (active near/mid-field monitors).

Where those effects really help (and where I learned about them) is in
making music. When you use the delay panning carefully you can make very
subtle stereo effects that are musically expressive, especially when using
noises, close mic'd or ambient, as a source.

The delay panning isn't that bad an idea for general use though, if you've
ever experimented with binaural stereo (a long-standing interest for many
purists) you'll have already used it. As binaural stereo hasn't taken hold
because it's too dependent on head and ear contours, it would have to have
the kind of controls I suggest to make it useful to all. Not sure how this
could be used to vary the delays in a stereo mix though, unless it be based
on splitting the signal into several narrow bands and rebuilding to get the
wavefronts aligned. There is a tool that does this, a BBE something, used
to clarify poor phase in final mixes. That might be adapted effectively,
but I haven't tried one so I have no idea.

About lack of bass, even these Mackies don't go down to the lowest octave,
and it doesn't bother be, our hearing can enhance the fundamental without
preprocess, so long as there's enough info to start with. By definition,
missing the lowest octave means that ONLY the fundamental of those notes is
actually 'missing'. :) And it's only attenuated a bit.
 
L

Lostgallifreyan

Um, typo, HR424.. No such thing as HR828 as far as I know..

Also, the reason I don't use tone controls isn't beased on the idea of them
degrading the pure signal, it's purely that I get used to a sound in a
room. If I want to get the balance I don't adjust them except in the
crudest and most temporary situation. In stead I play some things I know
really well, and shift things in the room if there's some horrible boom in
a corner or something.
 
J

Jan Panteltje

I built my own headphone

What system, i am curious, electrostatic, dynamic, dynamic wit ha coild in teh membrane?
Or piezzo?
I once build a smal ldynamic one.... when you find you need permanent magnet bias...
Also did some experimenting with piezzo.

Is yours betetr what you can buy commercially? (mine was not).

/pre/power amps from scratch though,

Yes done that too.
I'm pickier than most.

Na I am not, listening on PC speakers to my music now:)
 
B

Boris Mohar

I built a "Klipschorn" from drawings one of my fellow engineers at Bell
Labs drew up in 1950. With the popularity of stereo, it was hard to
find a room with corners in the right place, but it made a wondrous
sound! :)

From my post of 5/6/06 "Speaker impedance":

".... I recall talking to Paul Klipsch, the inventor of the "Klipsch
horn". This was a speaker enclosure about six feet tall and four feet
wide that sat in the corner of a room and used the corner walls and
floor as an extension of the horn. Paul contended that there was no
such thing as a "small" low frequency wave."

I've often wondered what he might think of the speakers they're now
offering under his name!

Virg Wall, P.E.

Dis someone mention horn? "Dig" these (scroll down)

http://www.royaldevice.com/custom.htm





Regards,

Boris Mohar

Got Knock? - see:
Viatrack Printed Circuit Designs (among other things) http://www.viatrack.ca

void _-void-_ in the obvious place
 
C

CBFalconer

Lostgallifreyan said:
HR824.
Finally...
(Far too used to forums with edit buttons)

Apparently you have connected to another of those flawed interfaces
to usenet. This is not a forum. Be aware that a complete world
awaits you when you install a newsreader and connect to your ISPs
newsserver. I suggest you try Thunderbird, from mozilla.org.
Totally free, and available for many systems, including Windoze,
Mac, Unix/Linux, etc.

--
"If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use
the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on
"show options" at the top of the article, then click on the
"Reply" at the bottom of the article headers." - Keith Thompson
More details at: <http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/>
Also see <http://www.safalra.com/special/googlegroupsreply/>
 
L

Lostgallifreyan

Apparently you have connected to another of those flawed interfaces
to usenet. This is not a forum. Be aware that a complete world
awaits you when you install a newsreader and connect to your ISPs
newsserver. I suggest you try Thunderbird, from mozilla.org.
Totally free, and available for many systems, including Windoze,
Mac, Unix/Linux, etc.

I'm using X-News, a Windows client. I'm not entirely missing the point. :)
It's just that I get careless with typing at times, trying to keep up with
a thought, and I miss typos and can't edit after posting. It used not to be
a problem but I think my sight might slowly be failing.

I know it's technically possible for usenet to allow deletions, and
possibly edits, but I think most systems don't allow it because it's easily
abused.

I'll look at Thunderbird though, as X-News has some ghastly OS-crashing
habits. Not that Firefox isn't free of GUI-affecting memory leaks, so
Thunderbird might not be a guaranteed improvement over X-News if it uses
common code with Firefox.

All of which is far too much off-topic info, but it might help people avoid
making assumptions. :) Sorry, hard to resist that one..
 

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