How do I connect up a power supply?

[Frank Martin]

I have had bad luck with power supplies, the
first a 350W unit must have been undersized
and it failed taking the HDD control board
with it.

The second was oversized but this failed
within 6 months, the room being filled with
smoke and an IDE DVD reader failed as well,
probably because of this.

Now I bought a "Toughpower" 750W "ATX 12V
2.2 & EPS" 12V unit with a 14cm fan with
"Imbedded Socket & Modularized Cable
Management".

The back of this unit has four banks of
sockets, vis: (L>R)

1/ "8pin + 12V power connector. (8-pin
socket).

2/ "6pin PCI-E connectors" sockets. (Two
sockets of 6pins each).

3/ "4pin peripheral & floppy power
connector". (two 6pin sockets.)

4/ "S-ATA connectors". (two six-pin
sockets.)

Additionally there is a large thick 24pin
cable leading from the unit which plugs into
the motherboard, and this I did.

I am not sure which cable plugs into the top
left hand side plug of the motherboard,
whether it's the one black/yellow cable that
runs with the 24pin one, or the "8pin+12V
power connector" socket-fed cable plugged
into the LHS of the power unit. Which one
should it be?

What do the "6pin PCI-E connector" sockets
feed? Do they have to be connected at all?

I have plugged the "4-pin Peripheral & Floppy
Power Connector" sockets to he DVD readers &
writers I have, and this seems to work OK.
Can I use the "S-ATA connectors" for this
too?

I am mainly confused as to where to plug in
the "6pin PCI express connector" which runs
alongside the 24pin plug cable.

Please help, Frank

 

[Cari \(MS-MVP\)]

Read the manual that came with the PSU.

 

[Peter Foldes]

Frank

After reading your post do yourself a favor and bring it to a competent computer shop and let them install it correctly.

 

[Paul]

I have had bad luck with power supplies, the
first a 350W unit must have been undersized
and it failed taking the HDD control board
with it.

The second was oversized but this failed
within 6 months, the room being filled with
smoke and an IDE DVD reader failed as well,
probably because of this.

Now I bought a "Toughpower" 750W "ATX 12V
2.2 & EPS" 12V unit with a 14cm fan with
"Imbedded Socket & Modularized Cable
Management".

The back of this unit has four banks of
sockets, vis: (L>R)

1/ "8pin + 12V power connector. (8-pin
socket).

2/ "6pin PCI-E connectors" sockets. (Two
sockets of 6pins each).

3/ "4pin peripheral & floppy power
connector". (two 6pin sockets.)

4/ "S-ATA connectors". (two six-pin
sockets.)

Additionally there is a large thick 24pin
cable leading from the unit which plugs into
the motherboard, and this I did.

I am not sure which cable plugs into the top
left hand side plug of the motherboard,
whether it's the one black/yellow cable that
runs with the 24pin one, or the "8pin+12V
power connector" socket-fed cable plugged
into the LHS of the power unit. Which one
should it be?

What do the "6pin PCI-E connector" sockets
feed? Do they have to be connected at all?

I have plugged the "4-pin Peripheral & Floppy
Power Connector" sockets to he DVD readers &
writers I have, and this seems to work OK.
Can I use the "S-ATA connectors" for this
too?

I am mainly confused as to where to plug in
the "6pin PCI express connector" which runs
alongside the 24pin plug cable.

Please help, Frank

It uses modular cabling for a reason. You only
plug in the things you need to power your computer,
and the other cables can remain unplugged and stored
in the cardboard box.

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=7

In the picture here, the top connector (blue), would be
used for processor power. Some motherboards have provision
for a 2x4 connector near the processor area. All the motherboards
I have here, use the more common 2x2 connector (two yellow, two black
wires). Some 2x4 connectors are hinged, and split into two pieces,
giving you a 2x2 connector when you need one. Other cable assemblies,
make both the 2x4 and a 2x2 connector available, so you can deal
with either situation. Look closely at the cable with four yellow and
four black wires, and see what connector type is on the end.

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules/NDReviews/images/Toughpower750W/IMG_1009.jpg

The 24 pin connector can be hinged as well. Many power supplies
allow separating the two pieces. That is so you can handle motherboards
that have 20 pin main connectors, or 24 pin main connectors.

To help avoid confusion with the 2x2 "leftovers" from the main 24 pin connector,
when you plug a 2x2 into the processor power connector, make sure it
has two yellow and two black wires. The "leftover" section of the
24 pin main connector, has wires of four different colors, and is
quite different from a processor 2x2 cable.

You'll need peripheral cables, such as a cable that powers the
hard drive, CDROM, and floppy. You'll notice a couple of the
modular cables have a number of storage power connectors in
a row on them.

The 2x3 "PCI Express" cables are for auxiliary power on the end
of one or more video cards. Red connectors are used on the
cable, and also on the power supply. You don't need to hook
those up, unless you have a PCI Express video card, and it
happnes to have those kinds of connectors on it.

Any other questions, post back.

For peace of mind, I use a clamp-on DC ammeter, to measure the
current flow inside the PC. That tells me whether the hardware
is working normally or not. In your situation, where you've
smoked a supply, it could be because you used an underrated
PSU, or it could be because of a fault in the motherboard. But
without some amount of diagnostic equipment, it is pretty hard
to tell, until the next cloud of smoke. The reason the clamp-on
meter is nice, is because it doesn't make electrical contact with
the wiring. You simply clamp the meter around one or more
wires, where the current is flowing in the same direction.
So, for example, I can clamp all four +5V wires on the main
motherboard power cable, and make a "total +5V" current
measurement. I can measure all the current flows inside
the computer, in a minute or so, while a benchmark is
running (3DMark).

(The one in the right hand column here, measures DC current. I
use the 40 amp scale when inside the computer. I use the
400 amp scale when working on the car The jaws on
mine are a different color, not red like the ones here.
The technology used is a Hall probe, which measures the
magnetic field around the wire. Four wires, with the
current flowing in the same direction, have their magnetic
fields added together. You cannot measure current in
an AC power cord, unless you can get at the separate
wires inside the cable. I have an extension cord which
is modified for usage with the meter.)

http://www.fotronic.com/extech/clampmeters/380947.htm

If you need to know what the wires are for in the cables
on an ATX PSU, consult the connector diagrams in the back,
here.

http://www.formfactors.org/developer/specs/ATX12V_PSDG_2_2_public_br2.pdf

HTH,
Paul

 

[w_tom]

I have had bad luck with power supplies, the
first a 350W unit must have been undersized
and it failed taking the HDD control board
with it.

The second was oversized but this failed
within 6 months, the room being filled with
smoke and an IDE DVD reader failed as well,
probably because of this.

No power supply is damaged by being undersized - assuming your
supply contains that many functions even required in 1970. Your
failures are directly traceable to buying a power supply only on
dollars and watts. Did it come with a long list of numeric specs? If
not, then essential functions may be missing. Did it sell for less
than $60 retail? Then its profit margin is probably higher by selling
at a lower price and missing essential functions.

Any power supply can have all output wires shorted together (a
larger load than any computer) and still the supply is never damaged.

What requires power supply connections? Nothing on the power supply
will say. You must read other manufacturer component instructions to
learn what power each requires. IOW, read the motherboard manual,
graphics card manual, disk drive manual, etc.

Worse, you are buying power supplies so commonly recommended by
computer assemblers - who have near zero knowledge what a power supply
does.

 

[Dragomir Kollaric]

Frank

After reading your post do yourself a favor and bring it
to a competent computer shop and let them install it
correctly.

I've a hunch that "attilawhateverhisname" was/is tried a new story
to entertain the readers of this newsgroup?

I mean how many people go out and buy parts for PC without reading
the manuals that come with it?




Dragomir Kollaric[/QUOTE]

 

[Paul]

I've a hunch that "attilawhateverhisname" was/is tried a new story
to entertain the readers of this newsgroup?

I mean how many people go out and buy parts for PC without reading
the manuals that come with it?

Dragomir Kollaric

I don't have a problem with people asking a question, where
they "need another pair of eyes" to verify something. For
example, have you heard of cases, where owners of power
supplies with modular wiring, have ruined their hardware
by plugging in the cables rotated 180 degrees ? Some of
the early modular supplies don't have connector keying, and
they actually allow the cables to be plugged in backwards.

So if someone buys a modular wired supply, and wants to
ask questions, I don't have a problem answering them.

Paul

 

[CaptAmerica]

I have had bad luck with power supplies, the
first a 350W unit must have been undersized
and it failed taking the HDD control board
with it.

The second was oversized but this failed
within 6 months, the room being filled with
smoke and an IDE DVD reader failed as well,
probably because of this.

Now I bought a "Toughpower" 750W "ATX 12V
2.2 & EPS" 12V unit with a 14cm fan with
"Imbedded Socket & Modularized Cable
Management".

The back of this unit has four banks of
sockets, vis: (L>R)

1/ "8pin + 12V power connector. (8-pin
socket).

2/ "6pin PCI-E connectors" sockets. (Two
sockets of 6pins each).

3/ "4pin peripheral & floppy power
connector". (two 6pin sockets.)

4/ "S-ATA connectors". (two six-pin
sockets.)

Additionally there is a large thick 24pin
cable leading from the unit which plugs into
the motherboard, and this I did.

I am not sure which cable plugs into the top
left hand side plug of the motherboard,
whether it's the one black/yellow cable that
runs with the 24pin one, or the "8pin+12V
power connector" socket-fed cable plugged
into the LHS of the power unit. Which one
should it be?

What do the "6pin PCI-E connector" sockets
feed? Do they have to be connected at all?

I have plugged the "4-pin Peripheral & Floppy
Power Connector" sockets to he DVD readers &
writers I have, and this seems to work OK.
Can I use the "S-ATA connectors" for this
too?

I am mainly confused as to where to plug in
the "6pin PCI express connector" which runs
alongside the 24pin plug cable.

Please help, Frank

Why ask here? What does this have to do with XP? Oh right, NOTHING.

Ask elsewhere

 

[Peter Foldes]

CaptAmerica

I think this group is for XP Hardware which certainly qualifies the poster and his post

 

[Alec S.]

Why ask here? What does this have to do with XP? Oh right, NOTHING.

Ask elsewhere

What’ your problem Cappy? Why you got to nag? You a moderator or something? If
so, then why don’t you just delete/cancel the post? Keep your Internets nice and
clean.

 

[smlunatick]

I have had bad luck with power supplies, the
first a 350W unit must have been undersized
and it failed taking the HDD control board
with it.

The second was oversized but this failed
within 6 months, the room being filled with
smoke and an IDE DVD reader failed as well,
probably because of this.

Now I bought a "Toughpower" 750W  "ATX 12V
2.2 & EPS" 12V unit with a 14cm fan with
"Imbedded Socket & Modularized Cable
Management".

The back of this unit has four banks of
sockets, vis: (L>R)

1/  "8pin + 12V power connector. (8-pin
socket).

2/  "6pin PCI-E connectors" sockets.  (Two
sockets of 6pins each).

3/   "4pin peripheral & floppy power
connector". (two 6pin sockets.)

4/   "S-ATA connectors".  (two six-pin
sockets.)

Additionally there is a large thick 24pin
cable leading from the unit which plugs into
the motherboard, and this I did.

I am not sure which cable plugs into the top
left hand side plug of the motherboard,
whether it's the one black/yellow cable that
runs with the 24pin one, or the "8pin+12V
power connector" socket-fed cable plugged
into the LHS of the power unit.   Which one
should it be?

What do the "6pin PCI-E connector" sockets
feed?  Do they have to be connected at all?

I have plugged the "4-pin Peripheral & Floppy
Power Connector" sockets to he DVD readers &
writers I have, and this seems to work OK.
Can I use the "S-ATA connectors" for this
too?

I am mainly confused as to where to plug in
the  "6pin PCI express connector" which runs
alongside the 24pin plug cable.

Please help, Frank

"Oversized" power supply should "never" fail as described. You have a
"major" AC power problem at the "zone" where this PC "resides." You
need to double check the AC power outlets so as to makre sure that
they are properly "grounded." If they are not grounded, you will be
constantly replacing power supplies.

 

[w_tom]

"Oversized" power supply should "never" fail as described.  You have a
"major" AC power problem at the "zone" where this PC "resides."  You
need to double check the AC power outlets so as to makre sure that
they are properly "grounded."  If they are not grounded, you will be
constantly replacing power supplies.

Even an undersized supply must never fails as described. The supply
should make most AC power problems irrelvant. Yes, missing ground
might cause a power supply or other computer failures. But only if
the power supply was defective when purchased. A missing safety
ground should never cause electronics damage. That does not even
suggest the necessary and required safety ground exists or can remain
missing. But a missing safety ground must never create that kind of
hardware failure.

smlunatick is right to demand that safety ground exist. But if a
missing safety ground causes hardware failure, then the OP has more
and serious problems beyond a missing safety ground.

 

[CaptAmerica]

CaptAmerica

I think this group is for XP Hardware which certainly qualifies the poster and his post

Replacing the PS has NOTHING to do with the OS. It is software
independent; hence the question does not belong here.

 

[Peter Foldes]

And what is this newsgroup about. The OS or the Hardware. Sheeees............

 

[Bill in Co.]

He got his words mixed up a bit, and was being a bit modest. I think he
meant to say that HE doesn't belong here, but he was just being modest.

 

[Frank Martin]

It uses modular cabling for a reason. You
only
plug in the things you need to power your
computer,
and the other cables can remain unplugged
and stored
in the cardboard box.

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=7

In the picture here, the top connector
(blue), would be
used for processor power. Some motherboards
have provision
for a 2x4 connector near the processor
area. All the motherboards
I have here, use the more common 2x2
connector (two yellow, two black
wires). Some 2x4 connectors are hinged, and
split into two pieces,
giving you a 2x2 connector when you need
one. Other cable assemblies,
make both the 2x4 and a 2x2 connector
available, so you can deal
with either situation. Look closely at the
cable with four yellow and
four black wires, and see what connector
type is on the end.

((Thanks, I have used the top blue socket
cable to connect to the plug on the
motherboard closest to the CPU. This works
OK. It has 8 bundled black/yellow wires only
four of which seem to be connected. But what
is the purpose of the other main cable, not
the 24-pin one, which is wired into the
supply and which also has 8 bundled wires
also black/yellow ut connect to a plug with a
securing tab the other way about to the one
on the motherboard. When I present this to
the motherboard the black/yellow bundled
wires are opposite to the one leading fron
the modular blue-socket on the power supply.
What is this "PCI-express" - labelled cable
for? I don't want to experiment because the
colours are the other way around when I
try.))

((I haven't connected anything to the red
"6pin PCI-E" sockets on the powerboard. Is
this OK?))

((I have used the "4pin peripheral & floppy
power connector" sockets for everything else
such as the HHD (there are two) and the two
DVD read/writers and the small 3.5mb floppy
drive. Is it OK to parallel so many
prepheriferal units off these "4pin
peripheral & floppy power connectors"?))

((I will buy one of these clamp-on ammeters
as soon as possible, and thank you for the
advice. The motherboard is MSI945PNeo with
a dual-core CPU. The computer is working OK
but the powersupply and most of the cables
are temporarly connected.))

((When I pulled the failed power suppies to
pieces, the first had its capacitors all
swollen & leaking, and the second one had one
of its small transformer coils all blackened
and about to fail. ))

Regards.

 

[Frank Martin]

I have had bad luck with power supplies,
the
first a 350W unit must have been undersized
and it failed taking the HDD control board
with it.

The second was oversized but this failed
within 6 months, the room being filled with
smoke and an IDE DVD reader failed as well,
probably because of this.

No power supply is damaged by being
undersized - assuming your
supply contains that many functions even
required in 1970. Your
failures are directly traceable to buying a
power supply only on
dollars and watts. Did it come with a long
list of numeric specs? If
not, then essential functions may be missing.
Did it sell for less
than $60 retail? Then its profit margin is
probably higher by selling
at a lower price and missing essential
functions.

Any power supply can have all output wires
shorted together (a
larger load than any computer) and still the
supply is never damaged.

What requires power supply connections?
Nothing on the power supply
will say. You must read other manufacturer
component instructions to
learn what power each requires. IOW, read
the motherboard manual,
graphics card manual, disk drive manual, etc.

Worse, you are buying power supplies so
commonly recommended by
computer assemblers - who have near zero
knowledge what a power supply
does.

This is why I oversized this new unit as much
as possible. Presumably is only draws the
power it requires from the wall socket.
Unlike the other two, it runs cold all the
time. The computer works hard all the time,
mainly at full capacity burning movies and
internet downloading. The CPU often runs at
over 90%. I have no overclocking at all.

 

[Paul]

((Thanks, I have used the top blue socket
cable to connect to the plug on the
motherboard closest to the CPU. This works
OK. It has 8 bundled black/yellow wires only
four of which seem to be connected. But what
is the purpose of the other main cable, not
the 24-pin one, which is wired into the
supply and which also has 8 bundled wires
also black/yellow ut connect to a plug with a
securing tab the other way about to the one
on the motherboard. When I present this to
the motherboard the black/yellow bundled
wires are opposite to the one leading fron
the modular blue-socket on the power supply.
What is this "PCI-express" - labelled cable
for? I don't want to experiment because the
colours are the other way around when I
try.))

((I haven't connected anything to the red
"6pin PCI-E" sockets on the powerboard. Is
this OK?))

((I have used the "4pin peripheral & floppy
power connector" sockets for everything else
such as the HHD (there are two) and the two
DVD read/writers and the small 3.5mb floppy
drive. Is it OK to parallel so many
prepheriferal units off these "4pin
peripheral & floppy power connectors"?))

((I will buy one of these clamp-on ammeters
as soon as possible, and thank you for the
advice. The motherboard is MSI945PNeo with
a dual-core CPU. The computer is working OK
but the powersupply and most of the cables
are temporarly connected.))

((When I pulled the failed power suppies to
pieces, the first had its capacitors all
swollen & leaking, and the second one had one
of its small transformer coils all blackened
and about to fail. ))

Regards.

This is a picture of the two fixed cables on that power
supply. One is PCI Express, the other is the main 24 pin (20+4)
power connector for the motherboard. The two fixed cables
are pictured here.

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules/NDReviews/images/Toughpower750W/IMG_1013.jpg

The text is here.

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=7

"Oddly enough, the second of the two fixed cables on the Toughpower 750W
is not a +12V for ATX12V or EPS12V, but is a PCI-e connector. Both the
fixed ATX main power connector and PCI-e connector are on the same rail.
There are two PCI-e connectors on the Toughpower 750W other than this
fixed one, and these two connectors are on their own 12V rail. The manual
states if you are using high end SLI/Crossfire that you should use the two
modular PCI-e cables. So I'm not really certain what purpose this fixed
PCI-e serves."

So that makes a total of three PCI Express connectors. PCI Express connectors
come in 2x3 and 2x4 types. The 2x4 was added as an afterthought, when some
extra high power video cards came out.

The signals on the two kinds of PCI Express, are shown in the wiring diagram
for the following power supply. The 2x3 has three yellow 12V wires, and
three black ground wires. The 2x4 has three yellow 12V wires, and five black
ground wires. As far as I know, one of the ground wires on the 2x4 PCI Express
is a "presence detect" pin. The video card senses the ground has been connected,
and then the card knows a 2x4 has been plugged in. I don't know if a pin was
hijacked for this purpose on the 2x3 connector or not. It might have been.

http://www.pcpower.com/downloads/S75_diagram_3827.JPG

Some PCI Express 2x4 are hinged, and break apart into a 2x3 section and a 2x1
section. This is so the connector can be used for either situation (2x3 or 2x4).

In any case, you haven't mentioned any PCI Express video cards, and
if you're not using one, or if the PCI Express card doesn't use Aux
connectors on the non-faceplate end of the card, then that "fixed"
PCI Express can be left dangling.

A basic computer build uses -

1) 2x2 for the processor, +12V and ground
2) 24 pin main connector, for motherboard power
3) A least one peripheral cable, with floppy, hard drive, CDROM power

You can add to that

4a) The fixed PCI Express, for a low powered card with a single Auxiliary connector.

or

4b) Use the two modular PCI Express, for a higher power card. (8800GTX?)
If there is no video card like that present in the computer, then
the two "red connector" cables, can stay in the cardboard box.

5) The additional peripheral power cables would be needed, if you have a whole bunch
of hard drives or something.

The clamp-on ammeter is an expensive tool, the most expensive of
my cheesy collection of meters. Not every DIY home builder needs
one, but if you ever have concerns about where the amps are
flowing, I find it a handy tool. I can use the DC measurement scale
for computer work, and the AC measurement scale for working on my
central air conditioner (bad fan motor).

Many cheap general purpose multimeters, have a 10 amps limit (protected
by a fuse on the multimeter). That clamp-on meter doesn't have a fuse
on it, and can measure 40 amps DC full scale or 400 amps DC full scale.
I've measured 16 amps flowing on one of the lower voltage rails in
one of my older computers. One of the reasons I bought the clamp-on
meter, is because it did not have the typical 10 amp measurement
limit. Since the meter uses magnetic fields for measurement, it
doesn't get in the circuit path, and that is one of its better
features. I feel real good when working on 220VAC and not making
contact with live voltage. With a normal multimeter, you have
to put the current measurement interface, in series with the load,
which would require cutting a wire.

HTH,
Paul

 

[w_tom]

This is why I oversized this new unit as much
as possible.

Again judging a power supply only on dollars and watts. How much
power does a computer draw? Maybe 150 watts. So a 350 watt supply is
more than enough. To sell the power supply at less price for higher
profits, make wattage higher and forget to include other essential
functions. 600 watts does not mean it is better. The 350 watt supply
with required bells and whistles is preferred. But too many computer
assemblers only understand the Tim Allen joke, "More power."

Benchmarks to identify a minimally acceptable supply: 1) Retail
price should be above $60. 2) Manufacturer provides a long list (full
page) of numeric specs. Neither say the power supply is sufficient.
But either missing requirement implies a power supply that was
defective by design. Your power supply smoked. Therefore requirement
2 was probably never provided.

The naive assume a computer that boots means the power supply is
working. Normal is for a defective power supply to boot a computer.
Unacceptable is for any power supply to be damaged by the load.
Unacceptable is for any power supply to cause motherboard or other
computer damage. Foolish is to think more watts means a better
supply. Too often, larger watts supplies are missing essential
functions.

 

[Dragomir Kollaric]

So if someone buys a modular wired supply, and wants to
ask questions, I don't have a problem answering them.

Yes I see your many answers. I too learned a couple of
things reading your posts. It just struck me because the
*story* seems to be so alike. It just happened that I too
put in a modular wired supply and it would be impossible
to connect the wires wrong. But then again maybe some
manufacturers do things different....

Paul

Dragomir Kollaric[/QUOTE]