Help - I'm new at this and my machine is rebooting

[Louise]

I did a "compromise" and instead of getting a new system from Dell, with
whom I've had a lot of bad dealings, I had one built for me by
www.endpcnoise.com aka NW Computers in Vancouver Washington.

It has an Asus P4C800-E Deluxe motherboard, a 3.2 cpu chip and 1024
Kingston memory (2 512 dimms). Ami bios. Came with Windows XP Pro
installed, along with Office SBE installed. Both are OEM versions.

It seemed to run fine but as time has gone on, and I've begun loading
all my software, I'm having occasions of sudden rebooting which has
already corrupted an Outlook file which was open at the time of one of
the reboots.

Here's the scenario:

I use a cable modem for internet access and therefore, didn't get to try
out the modem until I installed WinFax Pro 10. It sent faxes fine. But
- when I received a fax, the modem made a strange noise and the system
rebooted. This happened 3 or 4 times.

I switched out the inexpensive modem it came with and replaced it with
my old US Robotics from my other system. It worked fine - faxes
received and no more reboots.

Today I installed my USB Palm and the newest software downloaded from
their website (actually it's a Visor Prism using the Palm 3.5 OS). It
synced ok. I installed a program I've used before which syncs with a
database. I synced again and everything was fine

I tried to sync again a while later and right in the middle, the system
rebooted. This happened twice. I've now plugged in the USB cable to
another port and synced a few times without a problem.....

I'm very disturbed because of the rebooting, which of course, will
corrupt data and since I do a lot of multi-tasking, leaves me very
vulnerable to data loss.

Even if a program showed some incompatibility, or a hardware connection
is bad, why does the entire system reboot? I could see if it hung - but
rebooting is kind of serious and leaves one very vulnerable.

Is there something I should check? Where do I begin?

TIA

Louise

 

[Dave C.]

I did a "compromise" and instead of getting a new system from Dell, with
whom I've had a lot of bad dealings, I had one built for me by
www.endpcnoise.com aka NW Computers in Vancouver Washington.

It has an Asus P4C800-E Deluxe motherboard, a 3.2 cpu chip and 1024
Kingston memory (2 512 dimms). Ami bios. Came with Windows XP Pro
installed, along with Office SBE installed. Both are OEM versions.

It seemed to run fine but as time has gone on, and I've begun loading
all my software, I'm having occasions of sudden rebooting which has
already corrupted an Outlook file which was open at the time of one of
the reboots.

Here's the scenario:

I use a cable modem for internet access and therefore, didn't get to try
out the modem until I installed WinFax Pro 10. It sent faxes fine. But
- when I received a fax, the modem made a strange noise and the system
rebooted. This happened 3 or 4 times.

I switched out the inexpensive modem it came with and replaced it with
my old US Robotics from my other system. It worked fine - faxes
received and no more reboots.

Today I installed my USB Palm and the newest software downloaded from
their website (actually it's a Visor Prism using the Palm 3.5 OS). It
synced ok. I installed a program I've used before which syncs with a
database. I synced again and everything was fine

I tried to sync again a while later and right in the middle, the system
rebooted. This happened twice. I've now plugged in the USB cable to
another port and synced a few times without a problem.....

I'm very disturbed because of the rebooting, which of course, will
corrupt data and since I do a lot of multi-tasking, leaves me very
vulnerable to data loss.

Even if a program showed some incompatibility, or a hardware connection
is bad, why does the entire system reboot? I could see if it hung - but
rebooting is kind of serious and leaves one very vulnerable.

Is there something I should check? Where do I begin?

TIA

Louise

Louise - your problem could be caused by a number of different things, most
probably hardware related. If the computer was shipped to you (or even if
it wasn't), it's possible you have a loose component or cable that would be
causing reboots. Or if the CPU wasn't installed right, you could have a
system that is rebooting because it is overheating. Another likely suspect
is a bad power supply. Even brand new power supplies can be bad. Or it's
possible (unlikely, but possible) that the system has a power supply that is
just too weak. I doubt that would happen if you had the system built for
you by an independent builder, though.

Bottom line, you are looking for a hardware problem, not software. I hope
the shop that built it for you is nearby or you know someone who is REALLY
good with computers. Someone who knows their way around a PC is going to
have to crack the case open to find this one, I'm afraid. -Dave

 

[JAD]

when you plug all your USB devices in can you get to the device
manager? are there any conflicts? . If you stay clear of any USB usage
does the system run without problems? You may have to update your
mainboards bios, as I see there are really no 'driver' updates lately.
Asus has taken away the bios changes description or at least I could
not find it, so I don't know if it covers your problem.

http://www.asus.com.tw/support/download/item.aspx?ModelName=P4C800-E Deluxe

Out of curiosity how does the sound work? I asked this weird question
because last month I had my brother calling me about is digital
camera, reboot while finishing the downloading of the pictures. It
turns out that the sound card drivers were corrupt, and when the
'finished downloading' sound would play, the system crashed.

 

[Last Boy Scout]

If you are using external USB devices your Motherboard may not be able
to handle it. Does the device use the USB Power? Not all power
supplies are built equally. Sometimes you need a better power supply
or possibly there is a jumper for Powering the USB port on the
motherboard.

If this is under warranty, probably you should call them on the phone
and ask for some technical help. Maybe they can diagnose your
problem. Since you replaced the modem you may be running into IRQ
conflicts or something like that. Sometimes it helps if you just move
a modem to a different PCI slot or something like that. I have also
seen cable modems get intermittent signals. There may be a hardware
conflict or a problem with a driver or something like that. The
processor could be getting hot or you may just have too many devices
on one IRQ. Video cards or CPU coolers are often the culprit. They
may want you to send it back which can be a real headache.

 

[Louise]

when you plug all your USB devices in can you get to the device
manager? are there any conflicts? . If you stay clear of any USB usage
does the system run without problems? You may have to update your
mainboards bios, as I see there are really no 'driver' updates lately.
Asus has taken away the bios changes description or at least I could
not find it, so I don't know if it covers your problem.

http://www.asus.com.tw/support/download/item.aspx?ModelName=P4C800-E Deluxe

Out of curiosity how does the sound work? I asked this weird question
because last month I had my brother calling me about is digital
camera, reboot while finishing the downloading of the pictures. It
turns out that the sound card drivers were corrupt, and when the
'finished downloading' sound would play, the system crashed.

Hi,

The sound seems to work OK - I've played internet radio, CDs, and I get
normal program sounds in Word etc.

I looked at the url and there are two new bios updates since mine.
However, I am totally confused as to how to go about installing them and
the language of description is not very clear.

Have you updated your bios? Might you be able to explain it in a step
by step fashion?

In the directions they talk about Asus Live Update - but I did a search
for it on my computer and it's not on the drive.

I also can't find what these new bios updates actually fix - anything I
might really need fixed or not?

Louise

 

[Louise]

If you are using external USB devices your Motherboard may not be able
to handle it. Does the device use the USB Power? Not all power
supplies are built equally. Sometimes you need a better power supply
or possibly there is a jumper for Powering the USB port on the
motherboard.

If this is under warranty, probably you should call them on the phone
and ask for some technical help. Maybe they can diagnose your
problem. Since you replaced the modem you may be running into IRQ
conflicts or something like that. Sometimes it helps if you just move
a modem to a different PCI slot or something like that. I have also
seen cable modems get intermittent signals. There may be a hardware
conflict or a problem with a driver or something like that. The
processor could be getting hot or you may just have too many devices
on one IRQ. Video cards or CPU coolers are often the culprit. They
may want you to send it back which can be a real headache.

This is a 350watt Nexus power supply with a nexus cpu cooling fan which
they installed.

The Palm sync cradle does use a USB port and yes, I have an external
DVDRW drive and an external hard drive. The DVDRW is in the firewire
port and the external hard drive is in a usb port.

But I'm confused - this is a brand new "fancy" motherboard with 6 built
in USB ports. Shouldn't it be able to handle USB devices?

I'm going to open it up and make sure everything is perfectly plugged in
and secured.

The difficulty I have with sending it back (aside how difficult that
would be at this point), is that the problem is very intermittent. It
happened on Wednesday, I changed the modem.

It was fine until today (Sunday), when I put in the Palm USB cradle.....

And now, at least half the time it syncs without a problem - it's so
intermittent that I fear I'll send it all the way back and it will work
just fine.

Someone said something about changing the settings so it doesn't reboot
when it runs into a problem - but they didn't tell me how.

Louise

 

[JAD]

Someone said something about changing the settings so it doesn't
reboot

when it runs into a problem - but they didn't tell me how.

This would be in the bios/CMOS setup (usually the first page). SYSTEM
HALT ON? NO ERRORS

 

[JAD]

I also can't find what these new bios updates actually fix -
anything I

might really need fixed or not?

This is the problem I see also and messing around with the bios flash
is not a good thing unless it specifically says it addresses your
scenario. It can go smooth as silk or fail, but it seems to be pretty
easy to recover nowadays if something goes wrong. The software for
flashing within windows is pretty good. there is a notice to use a
'updated' flashing program available on that site. I am trying to find
info on the 1016 bios flash to see what it has addressed.

In your other post you mentioned a ton of USB devices, This I am
thinking is the problem. Your fancy mainboard ( ;^) can process your
USB needs, but your PSU may not be up to the task. Or one of your
drivers is conflicting with the other. May I suggest a Powered Hub?
(suggested already?) it really can improve your USB experience. I have
seen peoples opinions of the reliability and speed of their external
drives change after using one.

 

[Louise]

This is the problem I see also and messing around with the bios flash
is not a good thing unless it specifically says it addresses your
scenario. It can go smooth as silk or fail, but it seems to be pretty
easy to recover nowadays if something goes wrong. The software for
flashing within windows is pretty good. there is a notice to use a
'updated' flashing program available on that site. I am trying to find
info on the 1016 bios flash to see what it has addressed.

In your other post you mentioned a ton of USB devices, This I am
thinking is the problem. Your fancy mainboard ( ;^) can process your
USB needs, but your PSU may not be up to the task. Or one of your
drivers is conflicting with the other. May I suggest a Powered Hub?
(suggested already?) it really can improve your USB experience. I have
seen peoples opinions of the reliability and speed of their external
drives change after using one.

Thanks - I already have a powered hub on my old computer and I can
certainly move it to the new one. Frankly, given that I have a Nexus
350 watt power supply, it never occurred to me that this could be the
problem.

What about firwire? I'm running my Plextor DVDRW drive from the
firewire port. But it can also be run from USB. I thought the firewire
was slightly more reliable????

Louise

 

[JAD]

What about firwire? I'm running my Plextor DVDRW drive from the

firewire port. But it can also be run from USB. I thought the firewire
was slightly more reliable????

I would say slightly faster than 2.0 USB and more 'versatile' rather
than reliable, IMO

 

[louise]

@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>, (e-mail address removed)
says...

Someone said something about changing the settings so it doesn't
reboot

This would be in the bios/CMOS setup (usually the first page). SYSTEM
HALT ON? NO ERRORS

I looked everywhere and such a setting didn't seem to
exist.

However - there was a temperature reading:

CPU temp: 44C and 111F - is that ok?

MB temp: 26C and 78.5 F

I have a sense that the cpu temp is too high but I don't
really know what the safe temps would be.

Louise

 

[JAD]

However - there was a temperature reading:

CPU temp: 44C and 111F - is that ok?

MB temp: 26C and 78.5 F

I have a sense that the cpu temp is too high but I don't
really know what the safe temps would be.

no those temps are fine... no system errors or keyboard error
settings?
should be there somewhere, they have been doing away with allot of
settings, but I didn't think that would be one of them.

@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>, (e-mail address removed)
says...

Someone said something about changing the settings so it doesn't
reboot

when it runs into a problem - but they didn't tell me how.

This would be in the bios/CMOS setup (usually the first page). SYSTEM
HALT ON? NO ERRORS

If you are using external USB devices your Motherboard may not

be
able

to handle it. Does the device use the USB Power? Not all power
supplies are built equally. Sometimes you need a better power supply
or possibly there is a jumper for Powering the USB port on the
motherboard.

If this is under warranty, probably you should call them on

the
phone

and ask for some technical help. Maybe they can diagnose your
problem. Since you replaced the modem you may be running into IRQ
conflicts or something like that. Sometimes it helps if you

just
move

a modem to a different PCI slot or something like that. I

have
also

seen cable modems get intermittent signals. There may be a hardware
conflict or a problem with a driver or something like that. The
processor could be getting hot or you may just have too many devices
on one IRQ. Video cards or CPU coolers are often the culprit. They
may want you to send it back which can be a real headache.

 

[louise]

@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>, (e-mail address removed)
says...

no those temps are fine... no system errors or keyboard error
settings?
should be there somewhere, they have been doing away with allot of
settings, but I didn't think that would be one of them.

I just checked again - on the Main:
time, date, legacy diskette A
language
IDEs
primary master - not detected
primary slave - not detected
secondary ide master - DVD Rom
secondary slave - not detected
Third IDE master - Seagate SATA (Drive C) described with
numbers

Then, under system info
bios - ami ver 8.0.2 or something like that with a date of
11/03
gives the processor: intel 3.2 and the ram 1024

The only setting I see that I remember seeing a notice
about at some point is:

ACPI 2 support = no
ACPI-APIC support = enabled

What is ACPI and APIC?

I'm beginning to fear I jumped in over my head when I
thought I could handle a machine built for me without real
and/or local tech support

Louise

 

[JAD]

What is ACPI and APIC?

I'm beginning to fear I jumped in over my head when I
thought I could handle a machine built for me without real
and/or local tech support

Simply its how the newer systems and Mainboards deal with the
distribution of resources. IRQ's etc.

I don't think your over your head. The problem will be found out. I am
pretty sure its a USB thing. Your the type of user that really puts
the rig to the test with regards to peripherals and multitasking. The
problem is when you have many different brands of hardware, you also
test the savvy of the driver writers.

 

[louise]

@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>, (e-mail address removed)
says...

What is ACPI and APIC?


Simply its how the newer systems and Mainboards deal with the
distribution of resources. IRQ's etc.

I don't think your over your head. The problem will be found out. I am
pretty sure its a USB thing. Your the type of user that really puts
the rig to the test with regards to peripherals and multitasking. The
problem is when you have many different brands of hardware, you also
test the savvy of the driver writers.

Thanks so much for all your support.

I've tried several times over the last hour and a half to
recreate the problem syncing the Palm and I can't do it!

I even tried it with the
dvdrw drive on (firewire for now) AND the external Seagate
on usb - both connected and running.
Still can't recreate it.

I did do one completely hardware thing and that is that I
had another, newer, usb cradle for the Palm (a refurb) and
I changed cradles. There is definitely a tighter fit
between the PDA and the cradle with the newer cradle. But
if that fixes it, this sure is a sensitive rig I've got
here.

I'm now going to backup all my critical data files - and
I'm going to do it on an even more compulsive basis than
usual. And I'm pretty compulsive about that.

I'll call the vendor in the morning and I guess I'll wait
and pray and see if it happens again. I'm going to
describe the situation to them as best as I can given that
I can't reproduce it on any regular basis. I am going to
ask about the possibility of a cmos setting that will stop
the whole machine from rebooting just because it encounters
an error!

I'll also switch some of my usb devices to the powered hub
as soon as I'm done backing up.

You mention drivers - which ones might be most vulnerable?

I'm using an ATI Saphire 9200 and as far as I know, the
people who put it together installed the drivers. Should I
go look on their site for updated drivers? The video card
does seem to work ok.

I've a Soundblaster Audigy SZ and again, the people who
built the machine put in the drivers - should I look at the
site for upgraded drivers?

I have installed: HP inkjet USB and windows found the
drivers.

I've installed an Epson scanner and the drivers came from
the disk; the scanner is the 2400 and is about one year
old.

I've installed an HP Laserjet to the parallel port (it's an
old workhourse of a printer and I love it).
glidepad and keyboard - both into the ps 2 ports.

Thanks for all your help and I'll post again when I know
more.

Meanwhile, of course, if anything I've described above
catches your eye, please please please let me know

Louise

 

[JAD]

<<<I did do one completely hardware thing and that is that I
had another, newer, usb cradle for the Palm (a refurb) and
I changed cradles. There is definitely a tighter fit
between the PDA and the cradle with the newer cradle. But
if that fixes it, this sure is a sensitive rig I've got
here.>>>>>

Those cradles can be the cause of allot of USB hiccups. Cannons
easyshare is a big culprit of that. I wouldn't be surprised if that
was it. The USB plug-n-play scenario relies a great deal on the
physical connection and the 'proper' disconnection of the device.

That's a hell of a setup you have there.
Allot of it is state_ of_ the__art hardware. With that
"responsibility" as it were, comes a few glitches that will need some
ironing out. I would wait until this gets ironed out before adding
anymore software or external hardware. Your system should be very
reliable.

I have 3 asus systems of my own:

Asus
P4B266 -2.0P4 -1g Ram 2x60gig hds games and a rendering machine

P4B533 -2.8P4 -1g Ram 2x SCSI 80g HDs Video editing photo/poster
creation

P3V4X - 800PIII - 384m ram runs 2 large media printers and 2 ink jets
Epson 777i and a
cannon 530s. (mostly for the kids projects and
documents, the cannon does alright for photos).

All of them are connected via LAN and we have quite a time playing
(whatever the P3 can handle) UT and starcraft stuff like that.

All have ATI cards 2x7500 AIW and a 9700 pro for the 533. the 533 has
a Audigy2 Platinum sound card also. Serves me well with all the audio
I/O.

 

[Russell]

Hi Louise,

Sorry to hear about your rebooting problems with your new baby. First, you
should disable automatic rebooting when an error occurs. To do this,
right-click on My Computer, and then click "Properties". Click on the
"Advanced" tab, then click "Settings" under "Startup and Recovery". Under
"System Failure", uncheck the "Automatically restart" check box and then
click OK. The error message on a blue screen should remain on the screen so
you can record the error information and possibly get a little bit more
information about what caused the error.

Just an educated guess, but I suspect either an IRQ conflict on a device
driver on the PCI bus, faulty memory, an insufficient power supply for your
purposes, or the remote possibility of a "Blaster" variant viral infection.
I also noticed that they set up in the BIOS to have the SATA drive to remap
to the PCI bus, which will lower it's theoretical transfer speed and cause
additional IRQ switching, which correlates with the IRQ conflict hypothesis.
If it's plugged into an Intel Southbridge ICH5-R port, it should be set for
native SATA, which bypasses the PCI bus. The Audigy 2 ZS is notorious for
not behaving nicely if placed in the PCI slot next to the AGP card.
Regarding your Nexus 350W power supply, it could be the culprit as well.
350 Watts is borderline for all the cutting-edge gizmos you have both inside
and outside through USB on your computer. When I was researching quiet
power supplies when coming up with specs for a quiet PC, I seem to remember
something about the Nexus not shutting off when overloaded, but delivering a
voltage outside the tolerance range on the +5-volt line. Can cause
instability.

Anyway, call your vendor, and disable the automatic reboot "feature" on your
WinXP system and see if that begins to point to the cause of the problem.

Keep us posted,
Russell
http://tastycomputers.com

 

[John]

I did a "compromise" and instead of getting a new system from Dell, with
whom I've had a lot of bad dealings, I had one built for me by
www.endpcnoise.com aka NW Computers in Vancouver Washington.

It has an Asus P4C800-E Deluxe motherboard, a 3.2 cpu chip and 1024
Kingston memory (2 512 dimms). Ami bios. Came with Windows XP Pro
installed, along with Office SBE installed. Both are OEM versions.

It seemed to run fine but as time has gone on, and I've begun loading
all my software, I'm having occasions of sudden rebooting which has
already corrupted an Outlook file which was open at the time of one of
the reboots.

Here's the scenario:

I use a cable modem for internet access and therefore, didn't get to try
out the modem until I installed WinFax Pro 10. It sent faxes fine. But
- when I received a fax, the modem made a strange noise and the system
rebooted. This happened 3 or 4 times.

I switched out the inexpensive modem it came with and replaced it with
my old US Robotics from my other system. It worked fine - faxes
received and no more reboots.

Today I installed my USB Palm and the newest software downloaded from
their website (actually it's a Visor Prism using the Palm 3.5 OS). It
synced ok. I installed a program I've used before which syncs with a
database. I synced again and everything was fine

I tried to sync again a while later and right in the middle, the system
rebooted. This happened twice. I've now plugged in the USB cable to
another port and synced a few times without a problem.....

I'm very disturbed because of the rebooting, which of course, will
corrupt data and since I do a lot of multi-tasking, leaves me very
vulnerable to data loss.

Even if a program showed some incompatibility, or a hardware connection
is bad, why does the entire system reboot? I could see if it hung - but
rebooting is kind of serious and leaves one very vulnerable.

Is there something I should check? Where do I begin?

TIA

Louise

Sorry to hear of your situation with a new machine. This type of
situation is never very nice.

I have a suggestion for you though. Go to Start | settings | control
panel | system | advanced | Startup & Recovery and in this window you
will see system failure. Uncheck automatically restart. This might
give you some idea where and how to approach this problem.

In XP, Mr Gates, decided to reboot the machine when there is a system
problem. Not sure why, cause in order to fix the problem, you need to
be told where or what the problem is.

You said this problem started after a while. Sounds like you've
caused the problem by adding software or hardware.

A little while ago, I updated my video driver and my machine would
stop with a blue screen. I was able to restart the machine and
everything would be ok. I retraced my steps and decided to uninstall
the new video driver and the problem went away.

Sometimes, you never know!

 

[Louise]

Hi Louise,

Sorry to hear about your rebooting problems with your new baby. First, you
should disable automatic rebooting when an error occurs. To do this,
right-click on My Computer, and then click "Properties". Click on the
"Advanced" tab, then click "Settings" under "Startup and Recovery". Under
"System Failure", uncheck the "Automatically restart" check box and then
click OK. The error message on a blue screen should remain on the screen so
you can record the error information and possibly get a little bit more
information about what caused the error.

Just an educated guess, but I suspect either an IRQ conflict on a device
driver on the PCI bus, faulty memory, an insufficient power supply for your
purposes, or the remote possibility of a "Blaster" variant viral infection.
I also noticed that they set up in the BIOS to have the SATA drive to remap
to the PCI bus, which will lower it's theoretical transfer speed and cause
additional IRQ switching, which correlates with the IRQ conflict hypothesis.
If it's plugged into an Intel Southbridge ICH5-R port, it should be set for
native SATA, which bypasses the PCI bus. The Audigy 2 ZS is notorious for
not behaving nicely if placed in the PCI slot next to the AGP card.
Regarding your Nexus 350W power supply, it could be the culprit as well.
350 Watts is borderline for all the cutting-edge gizmos you have both inside
and outside through USB on your computer. When I was researching quiet
power supplies when coming up with specs for a quiet PC, I seem to remember
something about the Nexus not shutting off when overloaded, but delivering a
voltage outside the tolerance range on the +5-volt line. Can cause
instability.

Anyway, call your vendor, and disable the automatic reboot "feature" on your
WinXP system and see if that begins to point to the cause of the problem.

Keep us posted,
Russell
http://tastycomputers.com

Thanks for all your suggestions. And, as you know from emails between
us, had I found Tasty, before I'd already ordered from this vendor, I'd
no doubt be a happier owner right now However, here I am until the
next time.

The audio card is in the second slot away from the AGP slot - nothing is
in the slot right next to the AGP slot.

I actually read this post about the SATA drive to the vendor who simply
replied that it is set up for the default for this motherboard....so, I
don't know, but that's how it is.

I did as you suggested and stopped XP from rebooting. The error
messages, as much as I could make out, suggested faulty drivers for the
Palm (really a Visor Prism). removed all the programs, looked for any
hidden remnants, and then reinstalled the software from the latest
download from the Palm site.

At the moment, the Palm is syncing without shutting the machine down and
I've tried it several times. But it will take days before I feel even
remotely safe.

Vendor says Nexus is wonderful, but I'll keep it in mind if I end up
replacing the power supply and I'll get a larger one - as quiet as I
can. But I will give up "silence" for function!

Anyway, thanks so much for your help and I'm sure I'll be keeping
everyone posted .

Louise

 

[Louise]

Sorry to hear of your situation with a new machine. This type of
situation is never very nice.

Thanks - I changed XP's methods and it looks like it might have been the
driver for the Palm. I've now uninstalled, cleaned out and reinstalled
and at least for the moment (and I do feel quite hesitant), all is
working again.

Louise