HDTV setup on PC

[Ron Krebs]

Hi, I have an ATI X1900XTX PCI-E vid card connected to HD ready LCD monitor
via DVI. I also have an ATI 650 TV Wonder PCI card that supposedly handles
HD content. And I have a DirecTV H20 HDTV set-top receiver. My system is a
dual-boot 32-bit XP Pro/64-bit Vista Ultimate powered by an E6600 with 2GB
PC2-6400 G.Skill dual channel using a RAID 0 SATA II via Intel Matrix on an
ASUS P5W DH mobo. Here's the problem: I'd like to send Hi-Def TV signals
from the H20 to my PC and thought that the TV Wonder card was the way to go
since it says it can handle digital content. But the H20's only outputs are
HDMI, component, and S-video. The ATI 650 only has coax inputs and S-Video.
One of the coax inputs is to be used for cable signals which I assume means
ANALOG. The other, however, is designated as DTV/FM which the manual states
can handle either FM(not interested) or ATSC digital signals which I assume
means OTA digital signals or HD that only comes via off Air. What I was
wondering was, is there a HDMI-to-COAX or Component-to-Coax adapter out
there that will preserve the Hi-Def content without reducing it to Standard
analog? Or is it impossible for a coax cable to carry 720p/1080i content?
As it stands, I can only use the S-Video connection to get any kind of
viewable signal and as we all know that is NOT HDTV. On another thought,
the X1900 has two DVI ports. Are these both OUT only or can I run a
HDMI-to-DVI cable from the HDTV receiver to one DVI port on the X1900 and
have it sent out of the other DVI port to the nonitor? Any other
suggestions would be extremely appreciated.

Ron

 

[Cari]

The TV Wonder card will only accept an HD signal from ATSC... ie Over The
Air and NOT from any cable or satellite box.

 

[Ron Krebs]

I'm sorry, I just don't buy that.

The TV Wonder card will only accept an HD signal from ATSC... ie Over The
Air and NOT from any cable or satellite box.

 

[Captain Midnight]

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/

I'm sorry, I just don't buy that.

 

[Ron Krebs]

That is an absolute favorite link on my browser bar. I just spent over an
hour pouring over the info on that link. Very useful, thanks.

Ron

 

[Roger]

The TV Wonder card will only accept an HD signal from ATSC... ie Over The
Air and NOT from any cable or satellite box.

It will accept bth S-video and "component" with component being a step
up, but it is not HD. It has mo provision for HDMI input which is the
only way to get HD unless you could directly download it from the
drive.


Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

 

[Roger]

I'm sorry, I just don't buy that.

And how would you get HDMI input to the card?
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

 

[Ron Krebs]

I don't know yet. But it's not because it can't be done, it's because it
WON'T be done due to the damn DRM bullshit. The HDMI input would not have
to get to the computer via the main video card anyway. For example, I
transfer large amounts of digital video from my video camera to my computer
via firewire. I can even transfer analog video (old VHS tapes) to my
digital handycam and digitize this then send it along to my computer by way
of the D/V-In on the video cam that acts as a digital convertor. But never
once does the signal go through my main video card. So there are other ways
to import video signals and from what I've seen there ARE capture cards out
there with HDMI in. So, I will find a way to do this.

Ron

 

[Captain Midnight]

It will accept bth S-video and "component" with component being a step
up, but it is not HD. It has mo provision for HDMI input which is the
only way to get HD unless you could directly download it from the
drive.

It will accept S-Video and composite. Component will do 1080p HD.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_video

 

[J. Clarke]

It will accept bth S-video and "component" with component being a step
up, but it is not HD. It has mo provision for HDMI input which is the
only way to get HD unless you could directly download it from the
drive.

What TV Wonder will accept component inputs? They will accept S-video
and composite, which is a step _down_ from S-video, but I know of none
that will accept component.

 

[stratus46]

I don't know yet. But it's not because it can't be done, it's because it
WON'T be done due to the damn DRM bullshit. The HDMI input would not have
to get to the computer via the main video card anyway. For example, I
transfer large amounts of digital video from my video camera to my computer
via firewire. I can even transfer analog video (old VHS tapes) to my
digital handycam and digitize this then send it along to my computer by way
of the D/V-In on the video cam that acts as a digital convertor. But never
once does the signal go through my main video card. So there are other ways
to import video signals and from what I've seen there ARE capture cards out
there with HDMI in. So, I will find a way to do this.

Ron

You don't fully understand the data rates involved in video.
Commercial standard def runs 10 bit sampling at 27 MHz, 13.5 MHz for
luma and chroma for 270 Mbits/second. Go HD and those sample rates go
to just under 149MHz for 1.5 Gbits/sec uncompressed. The data stream
supplied to us is 19.34 Mbits/sec for OTA HD. When this comes out of
your video card as DVI / HDMI, its back up to 1.5 Gbits. Dealing with
19 Mbits is fairly easy for most computers (3 yrs old or less) but 1.5
Gbits requires special hardware. The trick is to intercept the
compressed data stream before its expanded back up to full res. While
the DRM might be part of it, the lack of hardware for the consumer is
a much bigger part IMHO.

As for routing HD video around the house, I do it daily as MPEG files
over the LAN cables. Each of the 3 computers can record HD and play an
HD stream to the 2 others in real time while surfing the net.

GG

 

[Roger]

the problem with these cars is the device sending "premium content" to
them needs to be able to identify them as HDCP compliant and as
acceptable devices. I don't think any of them have the required chip.

You don't fully understand the data rates involved in video.
Commercial standard def runs 10 bit sampling at 27 MHz, 13.5 MHz for
luma and chroma for 270 Mbits/second. Go HD and those sample rates go
to just under 149MHz for 1.5 Gbits/sec uncompressed. The data stream
supplied to us is 19.34 Mbits/sec for OTA HD. When this comes out of
your video card as DVI / HDMI, its back up to 1.5 Gbits. Dealing with
19 Mbits is fairly easy for most computers (3 yrs old or less) but 1.5
Gbits requires special hardware. The trick is to intercept the
compressed data stream before its expanded back up to full res. While
the DRM might be part of it, the lack of hardware for the consumer is
a much bigger part IMHO.

As for routing HD video around the house, I do it daily as MPEG files
over the LAN cables. Each of the 3 computers can record HD and play an
HD stream to the 2 others in real time while surfing the net.

However, it's not really special hardware or difficult to build. I
receive OTA HD 1080i, and can watch it using time shifting and record
it. Nor is that hard ware expensive. I can also pipe it around the
house using a gigabit LAN.

Currently there are a number of video cards that output HDMI. It's up
to the input device, or capture card to take care of the input. Now
according to several of the trade netzines the capture card only needs
to make the input signal *think* it's an authorized HDCP device (HDMI
has the ability for the devices to communicate so the "sender" or
broadcaster, or DVD tells the device that it may or may not use the
content stream). HDCP comes into play *when* so called premium content
is involved. If it's not identified as premium then none of the
system cares.

But back to the DRM part mentioned by Ron.
Yes there are cards that have HDMI inputs. I could not find if they
are HDCP compliant, but they claim to be. If they are then the
entertainment/broadcast industry can easily turn them off remotely. So
the mere presence of DRM in the form of HDCP gives others the ability
to turn off the device remotely if they do not want you using it.

OTOH these devices aren't cheap with the small PCIe-1 card running
about $250 USD and the base price for the more capable I/O cards
starting at $1000 USD.

I would say this is probably a good reason we see so few, if any, true
video capture cards that will work off your STB/satellite receiver.

Vista wraps the Kernel in a layer of protection for lack of a better
term. Both WGA and DRM are part of this layer. This allows Vista to
continually check to make sure if premium content is involved and all
devices are HDCP compliant which is highly unlikely with today's
computers including mine which is part of a multimedia center, or is
trying to be. If premium content is involved and you don't have all
compliant devices in the stream then the video and audio are degraded.
IF all were compliant, then it would depend on the flap as to whether
you could record it or not.

GG

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

 

[Roger]

What TV Wonder will accept component inputs? They will accept S-video
and composite, which is a step _down_ from S-video, but I know of none
that will accept component.

That's what I get for posting at near 5:00 AM. It should have said
composit, not component. Not sure what I was thinking.

--

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com