HDD noises

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

I'll bring it with me tomorrow (I (usuallly) have the internet only in the
office).

Well, I can hear and feel the fan when it comes on, so it ain't that.

You sure its just got one ?

What else could it be? Also, the sound is certainly
louder when I put my ear to the surface of the laptop
in the area just above the location of the drive.

Unusual noise for a single drive.

Do you mean you aren't clear on what I'm saying
Yes.

or what the symptoms mean? In case it's the former, I suppose
I'm saying that when the drive is constantly writing, as opposed
to being idle or doing things that would cause the heads to move
back and forth while seeking, the noise seems subdued, or at
least constant, rather than whirr-whirr-whirr at 1 second intervals.

OK, thats better.

 

[bxf]

OK, since you are so persistent with your doubts <G>, I decided to
confront the issue last night. First, I put my ear to the laptop
surface above the drive's location, and yes, the sound appears to be
coming from this area. Then I moved my ear away, to the area above the
empty battery compartment (battery has been removed), and lo and
behold, the noise is much louder here. Makes no sense, given that there
is nothing under this area of the machine, unless there is something in
the thin section between the surface of the laptop and the empty
battery compartment.

So, out comes the screwdriver, never mind that it is after 1:00 in the
morning. Laptop is upside down on my ironing board. I can't open the
battery section, as it is already empty. I open up one panel where I
see some copper cooling pipes and a fan. I turn on the computer so the
HDD and fan both come on. The fan is whispering quietly. I put my
finger to it looking for vibrations, but nothing. I put my ear directly
near it, and it is wonderfully smooth, just whooooossshhhing away. I
put my ear to the battery compartment, and the noise is very
noticeable.

I remove the cover of the HDD compartment and put my ear directly to
the top of the drive. Hmmm, I can hear some sounds, but they are not as
prominent as those I get in the battery area. Strange. I move my ear
around everywhere, and it just does NOT sound as if the source of the
noise is the HDD, in spite of SOME sounds from it.

All of a sudden something wonderful happens, diagnostically speaking.
Due to the fact that the machine is not doing anything, the fan stops.
The HDD is still spinning - I can hear it. I put my ear to the HDD
surface but the disturbing noise is gone! (*wiping omelet from face*)

So, what the hell is causing the noise? Not the fan, not the HDD. Could
be some resonance, but at this point I'm a bit skeptical, if for no
other reason than the loudness of the sound and the fact that it just
doesn't sound like resonance.

You sure its just got one ?

Good bloody question! I thought, perhaps incorrectly, that a typical
laptop has only one, and I have no reason to think that mine is any
different. However, this is one thing I must try to investigate.

Unusual noise for a single drive.

You are persistent, but so far the evidence is on your side. I still
don't know what it could be, other than another fan. I've never taken
apart a laptop. However, unless I manage to come up with some concrete
information, I will probably be forced to open it up and have a look on
the weekend. I just hope I can put back together whatever I take apart.

I'll keep y'all posted.

 

[Peter]

confront the issue last night. First, I put my ear to the laptop
surface above the drive's location, and yes, the sound appears to be
coming from this area. Then I moved my ear away, to the area above the
empty battery compartment (battery has been removed), and lo and
behold, the noise is much louder here. Makes no sense, given that there
is nothing under this area of the machine, unless there is something in
the thin section between the surface of the laptop and the empty
battery compartment.

So, out comes the screwdriver, never mind that it is after 1:00 in the
morning. Laptop is upside down on my ironing board. I can't open the
battery section, as it is already empty. I open up one panel where I
see some copper cooling pipes and a fan. I turn on the computer so the
HDD and fan both come on. The fan is whispering quietly. I put my
finger to it looking for vibrations, but nothing. I put my ear directly
near it, and it is wonderfully smooth, just whooooossshhhing away. I
put my ear to the battery compartment, and the noise is very
noticeable.

I remove the cover of the HDD compartment and put my ear directly to
the top of the drive. Hmmm, I can hear some sounds, but they are not as
prominent as those I get in the battery area. Strange. I move my ear
around everywhere, and it just does NOT sound as if the source of the
noise is the HDD, in spite of SOME sounds from it.

All of a sudden something wonderful happens, diagnostically speaking.
Due to the fact that the machine is not doing anything, the fan stops.
The HDD is still spinning - I can hear it. I put my ear to the HDD
surface but the disturbing noise is gone! (*wiping omelet from face*)

So, what the hell is causing the noise? Not the fan, not the HDD. Could
be some resonance, but at this point I'm a bit skeptical, if for no
other reason than the loudness of the sound and the fact that it just
doesn't sound like resonance.


Good bloody question! I thought, perhaps incorrectly, that a typical
laptop has only one, and I have no reason to think that mine is any
different. However, this is one thing I must try to investigate.


You are persistent, but so far the evidence is on your side. I still
don't know what it could be, other than another fan. I've never taken
apart a laptop. However, unless I manage to come up with some concrete
information, I will probably be forced to open it up and have a look on
the weekend. I just hope I can put back together whatever I take apart.

I'll keep y'all posted.

Do not take your laptop apart. The noise is coming from the VGA heatsink
fan.

 

[bxf]

Do not take your laptop apart. The noise is coming from the VGA heatsink
fan.

Hi Peter.

So what are my options, other than tolerating the increasingly annoying
noise? My machine has on board graphics, if that makes any difference.

 

[Peter]

Do not take your laptop apart. The noise is coming from the VGA heatsink

Hi Peter.

So what are my options, other than tolerating the increasingly annoying
noise? My machine has on board graphics, if that makes any difference.

Service it. If it is still under warranty. If not, you have to pay for it or
risk damaging it if you do it yourself.

 

[bxf]

Service it. If it is still under warranty. If not, you have to pay for it or
risk damaging it if you do it yourself.

Yeah, I suppose. The machine is a just few months beyond the standard
one year warranty. Can't recall if there was a shop extension on this
one - I'll have to check.

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

OK, since you are so persistent with your doubts <G>, I decided
to confront the issue last night. First, I put my ear to the laptop
surface above the drive's location, and yes, the sound appears to
be coming from this area. Then I moved my ear away, to the area
above the empty battery compartment (battery has been removed),
and lo and behold, the noise is much louder here. Makes no sense,
given that there is nothing under this area of the machine, unless
there is something in the thin section between the surface of the
laptop and the empty battery compartment.

So, out comes the screwdriver, never mind that it is after 1:00 in the
morning. Laptop is upside down on my ironing board. I can't open the
battery section, as it is already empty. I open up one panel where I
see some copper cooling pipes and a fan. I turn on the computer so
the HDD and fan both come on. The fan is whispering quietly. I put
my finger to it looking for vibrations, but nothing. I put my ear
directly near it, and it is wonderfully smooth, just whooooossshhhing
away. I put my ear to the battery compartment, and the noise is very
noticeable.

I remove the cover of the HDD compartment and put my ear directly to
the top of the drive. Hmmm, I can hear some sounds, but they are not
as prominent as those I get in the battery area. Strange. I move my
ear around everywhere, and it just does NOT sound as if the source of
the noise is the HDD, in spite of SOME sounds from it.

All of a sudden something wonderful happens, diagnostically speaking.
Due to the fact that the machine is not doing anything, the fan stops.
The HDD is still spinning - I can hear it. I put my ear to the HDD
surface but the disturbing noise is gone! (*wiping omelet from face*)

So, what the hell is causing the noise? Not the
fan, not the HDD. Could be some resonance,

Yeah, thats the most likely.

but at this point I'm a bit skeptical, if for no other
reason than the loudness of the sound and the
fact that it just doesn't sound like resonance.

It clearly is somehow coming from the fan tho.

Maybe it might even be electrical noise from the fan,
getting into the speakers when the fan is running ?

Good bloody question! I thought, perhaps incorrectly, that a typical
laptop has only one, and I have no reason to think that mine is any
different. However, this is one thing I must try to investigate.

You are persistent, but so far the evidence is on your side.
I still don't know what it could be, other than another fan.

Bit unlikely to have two that both stop at once.

I've never taken apart a laptop. However, unless I manage
to come up with some concrete information, I will probably
be forced to open it up and have a look on the weekend.

There may be a service manual available for it so you can
check for more than one fan without actually opening yours.
You dont appear to have said exactly what the laptop is.

I just hope I can put back together whatever I take apart.

Yeah, that's a significant risk with a laptop, best to use
the service manual and I wouldnt risk it if there is no
manual unless you havent ruined anything in the past.

Its clear now that it isnt the hard drive, so its
a bit academic just what is causing the noise.

 

[bxf]

It clearly is somehow coming from the fan tho.

Well, Peter suggested the VGA heatsink fan, which sounds completely
plausible, assuming there is one.

Maybe it might even be electrical noise from the fan,
getting into the speakers when the fan is running ?




Bit unlikely to have two that both stop at once.

Not sure what you mean here. Only one fan (whether its the VGA heatsink
fan or not) is making noise. The other fan (the one I can access
easily) is beautifully smooth. In fact, I mentioned before that I can
feel the fan going on and off and it was not related to the noise.
Obviously, I was feeling the output of the main fan.

There may be a service manual available for it so you can
check for more than one fan without actually opening yours.
You dont appear to have said exactly what the laptop is.


Yeah, that's a significant risk with a laptop, best to use
the service manual and I wouldnt risk it if there is no
manual unless you havent ruined anything in the past.

On the contrary, I'm practically famous for being able to take things
apart. Only.

Its clear now that it isnt the hard drive, so its
a bit academic just what is causing the noise.

Certainly true for the point of view of this NG.

Thanks to all participants for their contributions.

Bill

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

Well, Peter suggested the VGA heatsink fan, which
sounds completely plausible, assuming there is one.

Yeah, tho I'd expect you to have been able to hear
it as an obvious fan when the other fan turned off.

Not that common in laptops either.

Not sure what you mean here.

That you arent that likely to have two fans independantly controlled, and
not have realised that one fan was still spinning when one had stopped.

There are some virtually silent fans, but they arent common in
laptops, just because there isnt much room for fans in a laptop.

Only one fan (whether its the VGA heatsink fan or not) is
making noise. The other fan (the one I can access easily)
is beautifully smooth. In fact, I mentioned before that I can
feel the fan going on and off and it was not related to the
noise. Obviously, I was feeling the output of the main fan.

Sure, but with one fan off, it should have
been obvious that the other fan was a fan.

On the contrary, I'm practically famous
for being able to take things apart. Only.

OK, dont try it wthout a service manual.

You still havent said what model the laptop is.

Certainly true for the point of view of this NG.

Thanks to all participants for their contributions.

Thanks for the continuing feedback, much too rare in my opinion.

 

[bxf]

Yeah, tho I'd expect you to have been able to hear
it as an obvious fan when the other fan turned off.

Not that common in laptops either.



That you arent that likely to have two fans independantly controlled, and
not have realised that one fan was still spinning when one had stopped.

Judging from the observation I made, where the noise stopped when the
main fan stopped, I'm inclined to think that the fans are not
independently controlled.

There are some virtually silent fans, but they arent common in
laptops, just because there isnt much room for fans in a laptop.

I have no complaints about the main fan, as it is smooth and quiet, so
that any sound from it is not annoying. I think that MY ears hear the
moving air more than anything else.

Sure, but with one fan off, it should have
been obvious that the other fan was a fan.

In reality, I doubt that the fans had ever gone off during this
particular set of events, given that I've been doing video editing plus
I watch TV on my computer, which make the CPU work more than enough to
bring on the fan(s). I think that my perception of the fan going on and
off was more a matter of it changing speeds, so that it's presence
becomes more obvious. I did mention that there is no noise immediately
after turning on the machine, so I suppose that that is before the
temperature reaches the point requiring the fan(s) to come on. Once the
noise started, it stayed on, and until I moved my ear to what one would
think is an empty area of the laptop's surface (i.e. above the empty
battery compartment), I was convinced the noises really did seem to be
coming from the HDD, especially since I never thought about the
presence of a second fan, and listening to any area other than "empty"
battery section tended to reduce the noise.

OK, dont try it wthout a service manual.

You still havent said what model the laptop is.

No? Packard Bell Easynote M5. Mobile P4 3.06, Intel Extreme Graphics (I
don't do 3D games), 1GB RAM (up from the delivered 512MB),and the 7K60
replacing the delivered Seagate 4200RPM drive. I have a TV tuner that
captures hardware-encoded MPEG2/2/4 clips, and that is what I use for
my TV, because I am away from home most of the time.

I did away with the delivered OS, etc, installed XP Pro, and this
machine has been performing beautifully, responding instantly. The
strange noise hasn't changed any of that, especially since it becomes
annoying only late at night, when ambient noise is down, though people
with normal hearing (I'm not one of those) may find it objectionable
all the times.

Thanks for the continuing feedback, much too rare in my opinion.

I find this particular NG provokes more discussion than other NG that I
look at regularly (mostly MS Windows stuff), and it is often pleasant
to engage in conversation, notwithstanding the often heated exchanges
between yourself and Folkert. In fact, these sometimes provide some
good entertainment. I'd just like to think that nobody's blood pressure
rises excessively as a result of these exchanges, at least not any
more, as everybody must be used to each other by now.

Bill

 

[Arno Wagner]

My replacement 7K60 laptop drive, which is only four months old and was
silent until this week, suddenly produces spinning (not seeking) noise
along the lines of whirr-whirr-whirr, at a frequency of (roughly, from
memory) between 1/Sec or 2/sec.

Is this something to be expected as the drive reaches a "not new"
status, or should I expect the thing to completely fail soon?

No idea. Can you post the smart attributes?

Arno

 

[bxf]

No idea. Can you post the smart attributes?

Thanks Arno, but we are way beyond that by now. I believe we can
consider the mystery to have been solved.

 

[Rod Speed]

Judging from the observation I made, where the noise stopped when the
main fan stopped, I'm inclined to think that the fans are not
independently controlled.


I have no complaints about the main fan, as it is smooth and quiet, so
that any sound from it is not annoying. I think that MY ears hear the
moving air more than anything else.


In reality, I doubt that the fans had ever gone off during this
particular set of events, given that I've been doing video editing
plus I watch TV on my computer, which make the CPU work more than
enough to bring on the fan(s). I think that my perception of the fan
going on and off was more a matter of it changing speeds, so that
it's presence becomes more obvious. I did mention that there is no
noise immediately after turning on the machine, so I suppose that
that is before the temperature reaches the point requiring the fan(s)
to come on. Once the noise started, it stayed on, and until I moved
my ear to what one would think is an empty area of the laptop's
surface (i.e. above the empty battery compartment), I was convinced
the noises really did seem to be coming from the HDD, especially
since I never thought about the presence of a second fan, and
listening to any area other than "empty" battery section tended to
reduce the noise.


No? Packard Bell Easynote M5. Mobile P4 3.06, Intel Extreme Graphics
(I don't do 3D games), 1GB RAM (up from the delivered 512MB),and the
7K60 replacing the delivered Seagate 4200RPM drive. I have a TV tuner
that captures hardware-encoded MPEG2/2/4 clips, and that is what I
use for my TV, because I am away from home most of the time.

I did away with the delivered OS, etc, installed XP Pro, and this
machine has been performing beautifully, responding instantly. The
strange noise hasn't changed any of that, especially since it becomes
annoying only late at night, when ambient noise is down, though people
with normal hearing (I'm not one of those) may find it objectionable
all the times.


I find this particular NG provokes more discussion than other NG that
I look at regularly (mostly MS Windows stuff), and it is often
pleasant to engage in conversation, notwithstanding the often heated
exchanges between yourself and Folkert. In fact, these sometimes
provide some good entertainment. I'd just like to think that nobody's
blood pressure rises excessively as a result of these exchanges, at
least not any more, as everybody must be used to each other by now.

Yeah, I just enjoy goosing him with a cattle prod ocassionally.

Rather like the Victorians used to be allowed to tour the loony
bins like Bedlam and poke the loonys chained to the wall with
a stick for a bit of light entertainment. We get to do it from the
comfort of our homes and there is no risk of getting bitten.

Even gung ho shit fights can provide useful information,
tho delicate flowers can find them rather off putting.

 

[Arno Wagner]

Thanks Arno, but we are way beyond that by now. I believe we can
consider the mystery to have been solved.

ok.

Arno

 

[bxf]

Yeah, I just enjoy goosing him with a cattle prod ocassionally.

Rather like the Victorians used to be allowed to tour the loony
bins like Bedlam and poke the loonys chained to the wall with
a stick for a bit of light entertainment. We get to do it from the
comfort of our homes and there is no risk of getting bitten.

Even gung ho shit fights can provide useful information,
tho delicate flowers can find them rather off putting.

I'm going to apologise to Folkert in advance here, because I don't want
him to think that the following is "against" him or that I'm laughing
at him, and I certainly don't wish to offend anybody who hasn't
offended me. BUT, one of the funniest things I've read in some time was
your reference to a "pseudo-kraut". I still laugh to myself when I
think of that one. I'd wondered at the time if it was original, so I
Googled and found several hits, some going back a number of years. I
don't know where you picked that up, but it's a good example of the
creativity that some people have with words. So Folkert, forgive me for
finding this so amusing - nothing personal (actually, I like (most)
Dutch people I've met, so no offence).

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

I'm going to apologise to Folkert in advance here,
because I don't want him to think that the following
is "against" him or that I'm laughing at him, and I certainly
don't wish to offend anybody who hasn't offended me.

There's not need to grovel QUITE so
obsequiously, he's too far away to bite you.

He cant even manage the simplest stuff with usenet headers either.

BUT, one of the funniest things I've read in some
time was your reference to a "pseudo-kraut".
I still laugh to myself when I think of that one.

You arent the first to have had the sort of reaction
to one of my more pungent comments |-)

Some of them are so infectious that they
end up getting used by those who hate me.

Hilarious in my opinion, but then I have always
had a VERY warped sense of humor.

I'd wondered at the time if it was original, so I Googled
and found several hits, some going back a number of years.

That's true of most of my phrases, it isnt
possible to invent many if any from scratch.

I don't know where you picked that up,

I didnt pick it up from anywhere.

Same with 'pathetic, really', 'wota wanker', 'terminal ****wit' etc etc etc.

Its also hilarious how few can actually get the phrase right, most
manage to mangle it completely, even with the simplest ones.

but it's a good example of the creativity that some people have with words.

It is indeed.

So Folkert, forgive me for finding this so amusing - nothing personal
(actually, I like (most) Dutch people I've met, so no offence).

Stop grovelling, boy.

 

[bxf]

There's not need to grovel QUITE so
obsequiously, he's too far away to bite you.

He cant even manage the simplest stuff with usenet headers either.


You arent the first to have had the sort of reaction
to one of my more pungent comments |-)

Some of them are so infectious that they
end up getting used by those who hate me.

Hilarious in my opinion, but then I have always
had a VERY warped sense of humor.


That's true of most of my phrases, it isnt
possible to invent many if any from scratch.


I didnt pick it up from anywhere.

Same with 'pathetic, really', 'wota wanker', 'terminal ****wit' etc etc etc.

Its also hilarious how few can actually get the phrase right, most
manage to mangle it completely, even with the simplest ones.


It is indeed.


Stop grovelling, boy.

Not grovelling, Rod. I just don't like to offend anybody who hadn't
offended me. After that, it's a different set of rules.