HD 40 GB RPM 5400 or HD 80 GB RPM 4200?

G

Gilbert

IBM lists two laptops with different Hard Drives. Both are ATA-100 (Enhanced
IDE) with identical average seek time (12 ms), Average latency (7.1 ms),
Cache size (2MB) and Sustained data transfer rates (30/16 MBps).



One is 40 GB with Platter RPM of 5400, the other one is 80 GB with Platter
RPM of 4200. Is the difference of speed important enough to choose the
smaller HD?
 
D

David Besack

Why not get one custom made with a 7200 rpm hard drive?
That is what I would like to do but IBM (Canada) does not custom configure
Thinkpads.

Most manufacturers don't put a 7200 rpm drive as an option in laptops -
in addition to running faster they run hotter.
 
G

Gilbert

David Besack said:
Most manufacturers don't put a 7200 rpm drive as an option in laptops -
in addition to running faster they run hotter.

I agree that faster HD run hotter. However, in its most expensive ThinkPad
T42p, IBM offers a 60GB 7200rpm HD and a ATI Mobility FireGL T2 128 MB. It
costs double the T42 I am considering. I guess for someone with money to
burn nothing is too hot! :)
 
D

David Maynard

Gilbert said:
IBM lists two laptops with different Hard Drives. Both are ATA-100 (Enhanced
IDE) with identical average seek time (12 ms), Average latency (7.1 ms),
Cache size (2MB) and Sustained data transfer rates (30/16 MBps).



One is 40 GB with Platter RPM of 5400, the other one is 80 GB with Platter
RPM of 4200. Is the difference of speed important enough to choose the
smaller HD?


I'd call their tech support and ask about the real specs because average
latency IS the rotational speed expressed in a different format, so it
can't be the same for the two. Which leads me to think they've simply put
the 4200 RPM specs up for both.

Average latency is half the rotational period: (1/(7.1ms x 2))*60 secs/min
= 4225 RPM. The 'precise' number (to 4 decimals) for a 4200 RPM drive would
be 7.1423ms. The 7.1 spec is rounded off and that's why it comes to 4225
when reverse calculated.

Average latency for a 5400 RPM drive should be 5.555...ms. STR and seek
times are more difficult to guess because the drive geometry may be different.
 
G

Gilbert

David Maynard said:
I'd call their tech support and ask about the real specs because average
latency IS the rotational speed expressed in a different format, so it
can't be the same for the two. Which leads me to think they've simply put
the 4200 RPM specs up for both.

You are right David; even though I am not an expert on HD, my logic told me
that the specs for a 5400 RPM should be different from those of a 4200 RPM.
I called IBM support and was told that the T42 comes with a 5400 RPM HD and
that the listed specs might be wrong, although they could not verify that.
IBM has hundreds of Thinkpad configurations; it is absurd. And it so
confusing that even they get confused.
 
P

Phisherman

IBM lists two laptops with different Hard Drives. Both are ATA-100 (Enhanced
IDE) with identical average seek time (12 ms), Average latency (7.1 ms),
Cache size (2MB) and Sustained data transfer rates (30/16 MBps).



One is 40 GB with Platter RPM of 5400, the other one is 80 GB with Platter
RPM of 4200. Is the difference of speed important enough to choose the
smaller HD?


Wow, even 5400 RPM seems a bit slow and obsolete these days. I am
surprised to see the same seek time for both drives. I probably
would not select an IBM HD, after what happened a few years ago.
 
G

Gilbert

To All: Thank you for your input. T42 it is. I have ordered it. But I will
have to wait a few weeks for delivery because IBM Canada does not have the
extra memory and the multiburner in stock. Unbelievable!
 
D

David Maynard

Gilbert said:
You are right David; even though I am not an expert on HD, my logic told me
that the specs for a 5400 RPM should be different from those of a 4200 RPM.
I called IBM support and was told that the T42 comes with a 5400 RPM HD and
that the listed specs might be wrong, although they could not verify that.
IBM has hundreds of Thinkpad configurations; it is absurd. And it so
confusing that even they get confused.

Yeah. Well, they're trying to give people tailor made options and it isn't
a trivial project to devise a system which automatically updates specs,
brochures, web pages, and all the rest every time a part changes or a new
option is released.

Frustrating for everyone.
 
G

Gilbert

Yeah. Well, they're trying to give people tailor made options and it isn't
a trivial project to devise a system which automatically updates specs,
brochures, web pages, and all the rest every time a part changes or a new
option is released.

Frustrating for everyone.

You are too kind, David. Personally, I think that there is no excuse for
posting wrong specs, especially for a company like IBM. Plus, I don't
believe that the people at IBM are "trying to give people tailor made
options". Going through their hundreds of configurations, I spent hours
trying to figure out what they had configured and even after all the time I
wasted I was enable to get what I wanted. In the specs pages on line, the
info is not complete. And their TAbook is a joke. It is messy and instead of
showing precise info for each model, it is full of "some with" features. Is
this confusion the result of poor organization or is it a marketing ploy
where the customers end up buying only what IBM wants to sell? In my
opinion, it's probably the latter.
 
D

David Maynard

Gilbert said:
You are too kind, David. Personally, I think that there is no excuse for
posting wrong specs, especially for a company like IBM. Plus, I don't
believe that the people at IBM are "trying to give people tailor made
options". Going through their hundreds of configurations, I spent hours
trying to figure out what they had configured and even after all the time I
wasted I was enable to get what I wanted. In the specs pages on line, the
info is not complete. And their TAbook is a joke. It is messy and instead of
showing precise info for each model, it is full of "some with" features. Is
this confusion the result of poor organization or is it a marketing ploy
where the customers end up buying only what IBM wants to sell? In my
opinion, it's probably the latter.

I didn't say they were doing a good job of it. hehe. I just said it isn't a
trivial thing to accomplish.

Yeah, I may sound 'too kind' but that's because I've been on the other side
of the fence trying to make one of those things work (not that I designed
it, or else it would have <g>) and it can be amazing just how complex even
the seemingly simplest things are once you're the one who has to do it.

As the saying goes, never attribute to malice that which can be just as
easily explained by ignorance, incompetence, stupidity, or any of the other
similar human failings.

Look at the 5400 RPM hard drive example. I presume it costs more and one
would think they probably make more money with that option so it doesn't
make a heck of a lot of sense to imagine that substituting the 4200 RPM
specs for the 5400 RPM drive, leading one to think there's no good reason
to pay more for it, is a 'marketing gimmick'.

Cute story that kinda fits, and I just feel like telling it whether it does
of not. hehe

I'm thinking of buying a case but the specs, and picture, are incomplete so
I emailed tech support asking "please provide details of the cooling fan
mounts provided in your <insert model> case." I get a short reply back
saying "It has an 80mm case fan mount on the front. Thank you."

Now you might think that would suffice but the case looks like some others
that I happen to know what the fan mounts look like, and the email seemed
rather 'rushed' to me, so I emailed back "do you mean it does not have the
two rear 80mm fan mounts like the other cases based on this frame style?"

I just got back "it has the two 80mm rear fan mounts too."

Well, HELL, folks, when I ask for details of the fan mounts I mean ALL of them.

But I doubt not telling me it has three, instead of the one front fan mount
(nor the dismal online specs), was a 'marketing trick'. They just didn't
pay attention.
 
G

Gilbert

David Maynard said:
I didn't say they were doing a good job of it. hehe. I just said it isn't a
trivial thing to accomplish.

Yeah, I may sound 'too kind' but that's because I've been on the other side
of the fence trying to make one of those things work (not that I designed
it, or else it would have <g>) and it can be amazing just how complex even
the seemingly simplest things are once you're the one who has to do it.

As the saying goes, never attribute to malice that which can be just as
easily explained by ignorance, incompetence, stupidity, or any of the other
similar human failings.

Look at the 5400 RPM hard drive example. I presume it costs more and one
would think they probably make more money with that option so it doesn't
make a heck of a lot of sense to imagine that substituting the 4200 RPM
specs for the 5400 RPM drive, leading one to think there's no good reason
to pay more for it, is a 'marketing gimmick'.

Cute story that kinda fits, and I just feel like telling it whether it does
of not. hehe

I'm thinking of buying a case but the specs, and picture, are incomplete so
I emailed tech support asking "please provide details of the cooling fan
mounts provided in your <insert model> case." I get a short reply back
saying "It has an 80mm case fan mount on the front. Thank you."

Now you might think that would suffice but the case looks like some others
that I happen to know what the fan mounts look like, and the email seemed
rather 'rushed' to me, so I emailed back "do you mean it does not have the
two rear 80mm fan mounts like the other cases based on this frame style?"

I just got back "it has the two 80mm rear fan mounts too."

Well, HELL, folks, when I ask for details of the fan mounts I mean ALL of them.

But I doubt not telling me it has three, instead of the one front fan mount
(nor the dismal online specs), was a 'marketing trick'. They just didn't
pay attention.

On a few occasions, not necessarily related to computers, I received rushed
emails like the one you mention. Those reflect a lack of communication
skills.



Going back to IBM's marketing, I did not mean that the specs error was part
of a "gimmick". Only that IBM, with hundreds of Thinkpad configurations with
confusing info, has customers think they have a choice when in fact they
don't. For example, if I wanted a bigger HD in the T42 I liked, I could not
have it, unless I went for another T42 with a different video card for
almost twice the price. In other words IBM ends up selling what it wants not
what the customer wants.
 
D

David Maynard

Gilbert said:
time I


instead of



On a few occasions, not necessarily related to computers, I received rushed
emails like the one you mention. Those reflect a lack of communication
skills.

Yep. Plus just plain old not thinking, IMO.

Going back to IBM's marketing, I did not mean that the specs error was part
of a "gimmick". Only that IBM, with hundreds of Thinkpad configurations with
confusing info, has customers think they have a choice when in fact they
don't. For example, if I wanted a bigger HD in the T42 I liked, I could not
have it, unless I went for another T42 with a different video card for
almost twice the price. In other words IBM ends up selling what it wants not
what the customer wants.

Oh, I see what you're complaining about. Yeah, supposed 'options' that are
really part of a whole 'package'.
 

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