have a secured FE & BE-how do I copy the FE to other users desktop

[TxBlueEyes]

I created a 2 Secured FE's that feed off 1 BE associated all of which are
pointed to a specific new mdw file... The passwords/logins work, however, I
had the users click on the shortcut (that ACCESS Wizard created on the
network when it made it a secured db)and send the shortcut to their desktop..
I hear may not have been what I should have done, I tried to just copy the
main FE.mdb file to their desktop, however, that db gets the "you do not have
sufficient permissions to access this database" type message... There are a
total of 20 users using this database, not all at the same time though...
Since it seems to be working with the current setup, what are the negatives
leaving it the way I have it? Any suggestions would be greatly
appreciated....
Also, my system.mdw is no longer my access default
mdw file. somehow my defualt was set to a new secured mdw. So all databases
require a login.. When I changed default back to system.mdw file, I no longer
open up some databases... I was thinking of unistalling and re-installing
Access to reset my system.mdw... Could be damaged... we had some server
issues this week, and this is when I had issues with the system.mdw... any
suggestions will be greatly appreciated....

 

[Tom Wickerath]

Hi Tex,

You should leave your PC, and all of your user's PC's, permanently joined to
the vanilla system.mdw file. Create a shortcut that includes the associated
..mdw file in the target. This Word document shows you how to do that:

http://www.accessmvp.com/TWickerath/downloads/shortcut.doc

Since it seems to be working with the current setup, what are the negatives
leaving it the way I have it?

If I understand correctly (?), the current setup involves sharing the FE on
a file server. Is this correct? If so, you really need to avoid doing this,
as it is the number one cause of JET database corruption. More info. here:

Implementing a Successful Multiuser Access/JET Application
http://www.accessmvp.com/TWickerath/articles/multiuser.htm

Also, my system.mdw is no longer my access default
mdw file. somehow my defualt was set to a new secured mdw. So all databases
require a login.. When I changed default back to system.mdw file, I no longer
open up some databases...

Leave your PC joined to the standard unmodified copy of system.mdw. Use a
shortcut, as described above, that includes the path to the .mdw file in the
target for databases secured using Access ULS (User Level Security).

I was thinking of unistalling and re-installing Access to reset my system.mdw...

It's much easier than that. With Access closed, simply rename system.mdw to
something like system.mdw.old. Then restart Access. The standard system.mdw
file will be re-created, on-the-fly, if Access cannot find it. This works
with Access 2002 or 2003. It does not work with Access 97 or Access 2000; you
would need to obtain an unmodified copy of the proper system.mdw file to
replace a suspect copy, if you are using Access 97 or Access 2000. (Access
2000 will volunteer the repair functionality, which generally requires having
the installation CD available, if it cannot find the system.mdw file during
startup).

Note: From the Immediate Window, you can issue the command:

? DBEngine.SystemDB

to discover the full path of the workgroup information file that you are
currently joined to. Copy this path from the Immediate Window, and paste it
into the search dialog to easily find the file.


Tom Wickerath
Microsoft Access MVP
http://www.accessmvp.com/TWickerath/
http://www.access.qbuilt.com/html/expert_contributors.html
__________________________________________

 

[TxBlueEyes]

Hey Tom, You are a sweetheart helping me with this... Here's my dilema --- I
cannot seem to open any new databases without the security - I know the
problem is that somehow my workgroup P:" /WRKGRP "P:\01Quality 2005\TL
WEEKLY\PROJECTS\TeamLead1.mdw" had become my Access Application Defualt -
Which I am sure I did somehow without realizing it.. When I change the ACCESS
to a C:\Documents and Settings\myname\Application
Data\Microsoft\Access\System.old.mdw(used your recommendation) then all my
permissions to any previously secured Database are then nonexistant, and I
can't open them at all, unless I re-join the ACCESS Workgroup Default back to
P:" /WRKGRP "P:\01Quality 2005\TL WEEKLY\PROJECTS\TeamLead1.mdw ...
So I am majorly screwed???... Then I am right back to all databases wanting
a password/login...
Do I need to start from scratch and rebuild my databases (FE and BE), I will
if I have too... Even my BAK files are requesting Password/login. When I try
to create a new database with the C:\Documents and
Settings\myname\Application Data\Microsoft\Access\System.old.mdw, and use the
security wizard I get this error messge "Microsoft Access can't run the
security wizard because databse is open in exclusive mode".. I think that's
because I hadn't saved the Database first (would that be correct?) "Should I
go ahead and unistall and reinstall Access... I cannot believe I did this...
I have intermediate access background, so I feel like a complete idiot.. I
have created many databases with report, combo diablog boxs, subforms,
subreports, etc where just 1 or 2 people were accessing so security was never
required/setup... But this was my first time setting up a multi-user (20
users) environment... I am really spinning my wheels... And would rather just
start over if that is what it takes... CAN YOU PLEASE help me get out of this
fix this major disaster I seem to have created un benoist to me... I just
can't seem to open anything with the system.old.mdw..... I am so in your
debt.... if this is major I understand if there is some kind of donation or
charge... BTW, Love your website and the pics, it's nice to see who I am
working with... Guess I know enough about ACCESS to be dangerous... Totally
in your debt.. Tex

 

[Tom Wickerath]

Hi Tex,

Here's my dilema --- I cannot seem to open any new databases without the
security...

Okay, so that's the first issue that you need to solve. You need to rejoin
to an unmodified copy of system.mdw. For Access 2003, you will likely find
your copy of system.mdw in the following path:

C:\Documents and Settings\{UserName}\Application
Data\Microsoft\Access\System.mdw

where {UserName}, above, is a placeholder for your NT account used for
logging in to your PC. In Access 2003, use Tools | Security... | Workgroup
Administrator to join to the proper workgroup information file. If you have
accidently modified your copy of system.mdw, then rejoin to it anyways. As
long as you are using Access 2002 or 2003, you can then delete this file
(after closing Access), and it should get re-created automatically the next
time you start Access. So, before going any further with custom shortcuts,
make sure that you can open unsecored databases, or create new databases,
without getting the security prompt.

When I change the ACCESS to a C:\Documents and Settings\myname\Application
Data\Microsoft\Access\System.old.mdw(used your recommendation)...

I didn't want you to change it to the file that you renamed with the "old"
in the name. This was simply done so that you could easily restore this file,
if need be (rather than suggesting that you delete the file). It should be
changed to:

C:\Documents and Settings\myname\Application Data\Microsoft\Access\System.mdw

...then all my permissions to any previously secured Database are then
nonexistant, and I can't open them at all, unless I re-join...

You should be able to open your secured databases using a shortcut that you
create, which includes the path to msaccess.exe, the path to your .mdb file,
and the switch plus path to your workgroup information file, in accordance
with the Word document example.

Do I need to start from scratch and rebuild my databases (FE and BE)...

I don't think doing this will help anything.

Even my BAK files are requesting Password/login.

Were your BAK files secured using Access ULS? If not, then you are getting
this username / password prompt because you are not joined to the vanilla
system.mdw file. So, rejoin to system.mdw in the path indicated above. If you
still get prompted for a password when opening a database that you know has
not been secured, then this means that you have managed to accidently modify
your copy of system.mdw. In that case, exit Access and delete this file (if
you are using 2002 or 2003). Then re-start Access and this problem should be
fixed automatically.

One thing about using workgroup information files: The full path (ie. path +
filename) of the file must be different than the name of your database. In
other words, if you have MyDB.mdb and MyDB.mdw in the same folder, things
will not work properly. The reason is that when each file is opened, a
locking database file (MyDB.ldb) is created. However, you cannot create two
copies of MyDB.ldb in the same folder. So, either the .mdb and .mdw files
must have different names, or they must be in different paths if they have
the same name. This might explain the message you recieved: "Microsoft Access
can't run the security wizard because database is open in exclusive mode."

You might want to reconsider using Access ULS all-together. The reason is
that this capability has been deprecated in Access 2007. My understanding is
that it still works in Access 2007, as long as you are using the .mdb format
(instead of the newer .accdb format), but you will not have the security
wizard available. You're probably better off to just rely on Windows Security
for the shared folder, where only authorized users have RWCD privileges to
the folder on a file server where you store the back-end (BE) database of a
properly split Access application. (The front-end [FE], of course, should be
installed on each user's local hard drive). More information here on the
topic of splitting, in case this is Greek to you:

Split the Database
http://www.access.qbuilt.com/html/gem_tips1.html#SplitDB

and

Implementing a Successful Multiuser Access/JET Application
http://www.accessmvp.com/TWickerath/articles/multiuser.htm

BTW, Love your website and the pics, it's nice to see who I am working with

Thanks!


Tom Wickerath
Microsoft Access MVP
http://www.accessmvp.com/TWickerath/
http://www.access.qbuilt.com/html/expert_contributors.html
__________________________________________

 

[TxBlueEyes]

Hey Tom,

My ACCESS Guru from heaven --- Okay, here's the good news. I have my ACCESS
Default workgroup now set to C:\Documents and
Settings\myname\ApplicationData\Microsoft\Access\System.mdw m able to create
new databases without being asked for a password... 3 of my database
shortcuts are working pefectly, they prompt for the login and password...
However, my BE secured Mdb File will not, it tells me I don't have
permissions, same with all my BAK files... Is there a way to unsecure
these... Again, in order for me to get into these databases I have to change
the ACCESS default back to the P:" /WRKGRP "P:\01Quality 2005\TL
WEEKLY\PROJECTS\TeamLead1.mdw which was the Workgroup I created for the FE's
and the BE... I guess when the wizard created the BAK file since the default
wrkgroup was set to the P:" /WRKGRP "P:\01Quality 2005\TL
WEEKLY\PROJECTS\TeamLead1.mdw it really screwed things up, and that's why it
keeps wanting a password... And yes I do have the BE, and the Workgroup in a
folder with RWCD privileges called "projects", so only specific users can get
access to any data/file that is located on the drive/in this folder... I am
still having an issue copying the MDB to each users desktop... I must be
having a serious case of SOS (Stuck on Stupid) I know this is taking your
time, and I feel awful about that, but I am learning this as I go... Budget
constraints, so my training is limited... Like I said as far as building a
database I've been doing that for awhile, this is the first time of deploying
in a mult-user secured environment(more then 2 users)... I have the splitting
down... I had no problem splitting the database, it's just these couple of
areas that are running me ragged (1.copying the Main FE MDB file instead of
using the network shortcut for other users to add to their desktop. 2. Not
being able to get into the BE file (this concerns me... hummm) and not being
able to get to any BAK files due to the way they were created (my blunder of
course)... Is there any way to remove security on a secured database
completely? I don't know I am at least able to access them with the
C:\Documents and Settings\myname\Application Data\Microsoft\Access\System.mdw
now set as the default, and creat new unsecured... so it's just the above
issues I am now trying to resolve.. OUCH, what a pain I must be.. but know I
am learning so much today from you... I can't wait to go to some formal
training when budget permits. Again, let me know if you need some
compensation for this time, I will pay out of my own pocket..;o).. I don't
know if I told you I have 2 BE's feeding off the tables in the BE.. One FE =
Production (data entry), and the other FE = (reports) with Dialog combo
boxes, 1 query, and several reports. Tex

Hi Tex,

Here's my dilema --- I cannot seem to open any new databases without the
security...

Okay, so that's the first issue that you need to solve. You need to rejoin
to an unmodified copy of system.mdw. For Access 2003, you will likely find
your copy of system.mdw in the following path:

C:\Documents and Settings\{UserName}\Application
Data\Microsoft\Access\System.mdw

where {UserName}, above, is a placeholder for your NT account used for
logging in to your PC. In Access 2003, use Tools | Security... | Workgroup
Administrator to join to the proper workgroup information file. If you have
accidently modified your copy of system.mdw, then rejoin to it anyways. As
long as you are using Access 2002 or 2003, you can then delete this file
(after closing Access), and it should get re-created automatically the next
time you start Access. So, before going any further with custom shortcuts,
make sure that you can open unsecored databases, or create new databases,
without getting the security prompt.

When I change the ACCESS to a C:\Documents and Settings\myname\Application
Data\Microsoft\Access\System.old.mdw(used your recommendation)...

I didn't want you to change it to the file that you renamed with the "old"
in the name. This was simply done so that you could easily restore this file,
if need be (rather than suggesting that you delete the file). It should be
changed to:

C:\Documents and Settings\myname\Application Data\Microsoft\Access\System.mdw

...then all my permissions to any previously secured Database are then
nonexistant, and I can't open them at all, unless I re-join...

You should be able to open your secured databases using a shortcut that you
create, which includes the path to msaccess.exe, the path to your .mdb file,
and the switch plus path to your workgroup information file, in accordance
with the Word document example.

Do I need to start from scratch and rebuild my databases (FE and BE)...

I don't think doing this will help anything.

Even my BAK files are requesting Password/login.

Were your BAK files secured using Access ULS? If not, then you are getting
this username / password prompt because you are not joined to the vanilla
system.mdw file. So, rejoin to system.mdw in the path indicated above. If you
still get prompted for a password when opening a database that you know has
not been secured, then this means that you have managed to accidently modify
your copy of system.mdw. In that case, exit Access and delete this file (if
you are using 2002 or 2003). Then re-start Access and this problem should be
fixed automatically.

One thing about using workgroup information files: The full path (ie. path +
filename) of the file must be different than the name of your database. In
other words, if you have MyDB.mdb and MyDB.mdw in the same folder, things
will not work properly. The reason is that when each file is opened, a
locking database file (MyDB.ldb) is created. However, you cannot create two
copies of MyDB.ldb in the same folder. So, either the .mdb and .mdw files
must have different names, or they must be in different paths if they have
the same name. This might explain the message you recieved: "Microsoft Access
can't run the security wizard because database is open in exclusive mode."

You might want to reconsider using Access ULS all-together. The reason is
that this capability has been deprecated in Access 2007. My understanding is
that it still works in Access 2007, as long as you are using the .mdb format
(instead of the newer .accdb format), but you will not have the security
wizard available. You're probably better off to just rely on Windows Security
for the shared folder, where only authorized users have RWCD privileges to
the folder on a file server where you store the back-end (BE) database of a
properly split Access application. (The front-end [FE], of course, should be
installed on each user's local hard drive). More information here on the
topic of splitting, in case this is Greek to you:

Split the Database
http://www.access.qbuilt.com/html/gem_tips1.html#SplitDB

and

Implementing a Successful Multiuser Access/JET Application
http://www.accessmvp.com/TWickerath/articles/multiuser.htm

BTW, Love your website and the pics, it's nice to see who I am working with

Thanks!


Tom Wickerath
Microsoft Access MVP
http://www.accessmvp.com/TWickerath/
http://www.access.qbuilt.com/html/expert_contributors.html
__________________________________________

Hey Tom, You are a sweetheart helping me with this... Here's my dilema --- I
cannot seem to open any new databases without the security - I know the
problem is that somehow my workgroup P:" /WRKGRP "P:\01Quality 2005\TL
WEEKLY\PROJECTS\TeamLead1.mdw" had become my Access Application Default -
Which I am sure I did somehow without realizing it.. When I change the ACCESS
to a C:\Documents and Settings\myname\Application
Data\Microsoft\Access\System.old.mdw(used your recommendation) then all my
permissions to any previously secured Database are then nonexistant, and I
can't open them at all, unless I re-join the ACCESS Workgroup Default back to
P:" /WRKGRP "P:\01Quality 2005\TL WEEKLY\PROJECTS\TeamLead1.mdw ...
So I am majorly screwed???... Then I am right back to all databases wanting
a password/login...
Do I need to start from scratch and rebuild my databases (FE and BE), I will
if I have too... Even my BAK files are requesting Password/login. When I try
to create a new database with the C:\Documents and
Settings\myname\Application Data\Microsoft\Access\System.old.mdw, and use
the security wizard I get this error messge "Microsoft Access can't run the
security wizard because databse is open in exclusive mode".. I think that's
because I hadn't saved the Database first (would that be correct?) "Should I
go ahead and unistall and reinstall Access... I cannot believe I did this...
I have intermediate access background, so I feel like a complete idiot.. I
have created many databases with report, combo diablog boxs, subforms,
subreports, etc where just 1 or 2 people were accessing so security was never
required/setup... But this was my first time setting up a multi-user (20
users) environment... I am really spinning my wheels... And would rather just
start over if that is what it takes... CAN YOU PLEASE help me get out of this
fix this major disaster I seem to have created un benoist to me... I just
can't seem to open anything with the system.old.mdw..... I am so in your
debt.... if this is major I understand if there is some kind of donation or
charge... BTW, Love your website and the pics, it's nice to see who I am
working with... Guess I know enough about ACCESS to be dangerous... Totally
in your debt.. Tex

 

[Tom Wickerath]

Hi Tex,

I'm able to create new databases without being asked for a password
Great!

3 of my database shortcuts are working pefectly, they prompt for the login
and password... However, my BE secured Mdb File will not, it tells me I
don't have permissions

Then I can only guess that the target you created, using the directions I
gave in the Word document, is not quite correct. Did the target you created
exceed the 255 character limit?

Side Note:
Your target is showing the use of mapped drive letters (P. I suggest that
you use UNC (Uniform Naming Convention) paths instead of relying on mapped
drive letters. This simply means that you substitute \\Server\Share for the
P: in the path. You have to know the correct server and share to do this, but
you can use Windows Explorer to reveal this information. The resulting path
will be longer, of course, so you may run up against the 255 character limit
quicker, but using UNC relieves you, as the administrator, of dealing with
users who have disconnected from a previously mapped drive letter. So,
whereever you are currently using mapped drive letters, including the Linked
Table Manager to point to your BE database, my suggestion is that you use UNC
paths instead of mapped drive letters.

Is there a way to unsecure these...

Yes. Here are two "legal" methods of removing the security. I qualify these
as "legal", since both methods require that you know the correct username +
password to open the secured file. If I were to post other methods that I
have in my bag 'o tricks, I would likely incure the wrath of some people--one
person named Chris comes to mind--who would accuse me of being an Access guru
from hell, and try to report me to Microsoft. Never mind the fact that Access
"security" is not all that secure.

Method 1:
Create a new database while joined to the vanilla system.mdw file. You
should be able to open this file without any prompting of usernames and
passwords. Then, open the source database using your logon credentials.
Normally, a properly crafted shortcut that includes the full paths to
msaccess.exe, your database, the /wrkgrp switch and the full path to the .mdw
file should allow you to open the file. However, if you cannot get this to
work, then go ahead and rejoin to the applicable .mdw file. Select each
object one at a time (an object is a table, query, form, report, macro, or
module). Then click on File | Export... Select the new unsecured database
that you had just created, and click on the Export button in the lower right
hand corner. For tables, export the Definition and Data. I wouldn't bother
exporting any linked tables; you can re-create these from scratch.

Method 2
Open the secured database, using either a specially created shortcut, or if
you must then rejoin to the .mdw file. Then click on Tools | Database
Utilities | Convert Database | To Access 97 File Format. Basically, the idea
is to round-trip your database, by first converting it to the 97 format, and
then re-converting it to the 2000 (or 2002/2003) file format.

Note: Method 2 is a lot faster than method 1, but you stand the chance of
losing any functionality that is specific to the JET 4 file format (Access
2000/2002/2003) when you convert to the JET 3.X file format (Access 97). I
think one thing you will lose for sure is a setting of Yes for Unicode
Compression as a field property for all text and memo data types. You can
either reset each of these fields manually, after the roundtrip operation is
complete, or use a VBA code procedure to do this for all tables. If you are
in need of the VBA code procedure, just let me know, and I'll be happy to
post it.

I know this is taking your time, and I feel awful about that, but I am learning
this as I go...

Please don't feel awful about this. These newsgroups are intended to be a
place where people can get free help from others, like myself, who choose to
answer questions.

this is the first time of deploying
in a mult-user secured environment(more then 2 users)...

Once you have your database unsecured (I'm assuming you want to get rid of
Access ULS), then do visit my page shown below. I think it has lots of useful
tips for you:

Implementing a Successful Multiuser Access/JET Application
http://www.accessmvp.com/TWickerath/articles/multiuser.htm

I wouldn't worry too much about your existing .BAK files--just create new
backup files once you are satisfied that everything is working properly.

Again, let me know if you need some
compensation for this time, I will pay out of my own pocket..;o)

Gee, I appreciate the thought, but these newsgroups are for free support. If
you later decide that you'd like to make a donation to my favorite charity,
the Northwest Kidney Center in Seattle, then that would certainly be okay
with me. But please do not feel obligated in any way to do so.


Tom Wickerath
Microsoft Access MVP
http://www.accessmvp.com/TWickerath/
http://www.access.qbuilt.com/html/expert_contributors.html
__________________________________________

 

[Tony Toews [MVP]]

Side Note:
Your target is showing the use of mapped drive letters (P. I suggest that
you use UNC (Uniform Naming Convention) paths instead of relying on mapped
drive letters. This simply means that you substitute \\Server\Share for the
P: in the path. You have to know the correct server and share to do this, but
you can use Windows Explorer to reveal this information. The resulting path
will be longer, of course, so you may run up against the 255 character limit
quicker, but using UNC relieves you, as the administrator, of dealing with
users who have disconnected from a previously mapped drive letter. So,
whereever you are currently using mapped drive letters, including the Linked
Table Manager to point to your BE database, my suggestion is that you use UNC
paths instead of mapped drive letters.

To be contrary I would suggest following Tom's comments where
appropriate. There are times when using a drive letter works well.
And if users are always going to use the same drive letter then don't
worry about using UNC. Or if you have logic in your FE that stores
the path to the linked tables and automatically relinks the tables
when the FE is copied down again from the server.

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/

 

[Tom Wickerath]

And if users are always going to use the same drive letter then don't

worry about using UNC.

My experience is that you can occasionally count on users mucking around
with mapped drive letters. Now, if you happen to work in a company that runs
24 x 7 (as I do), and you do not appreciate receiving that 2:30am panic phone
call from a manager, because some user has problems related to mapped drive
letters, then stick with UNC.


Tom Wickerath
Microsoft Access MVP
http://www.accessmvp.com/TWickerath/
http://www.access.qbuilt.com/html/expert_contributors.html
__________________________________________

 

[Tony Toews [MVP]]

My experience is that you can occasionally count on users mucking around
with mapped drive letters. Now, if you happen to work in a company that runs
24 x 7 (as I do), and you do not appreciate receiving that 2:30am panic phone
call from a manager, because some user has problems related to mapped drive
letters, then stick with UNC.

When my clients were using drive letters they were set by the network
Admin and if the users mucked with them, logging off and back on fixed
them. How the network admin did that I'm not sure.

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/

 

[TxBlueEyes]

Hey There Tom,

Okey Dokey.... I will let you know what happens... I will be doing this next
week... Thanks for all your help... And to the gentleman, Chris who called
you the Access Guru from hell, well all I can say to that is "BULL", you have
helped me and many Access Guru want-a-be's on this website.. So as for me "my
hat off to you"... I will keep in touch and let you know how it went, and yes
I will look into making some kind of donation in your name to Northwest
Kidney Center in Seattle, hopefully they have a way to do that online...
Again, many thanks - Tex

 

[TxBlueEyes]

Hey There Tony,

Thanks for the input, and yeppers in our company environment everyone has
the same mapping for the network drive I have the BE & FE on ... The only
thing I have control is the Permissions for the folder which the BE & FE are
housed, this limits the security as to who can or can't get to the
database... Thanks again, I am learning so much on the website >>> I LOVE IT!
Take care, Tex

 

[Tom Wickerath]

I will look into making some kind of donation in your name to Northwest

Kidney Center in Seattle, hopefully they have a way to do that online...

That would be very nice, indeed, but I don't want you to feel any obligation
to do so.

The URL included on the contributor's page is no longer working, however,
the correct URL is:

http://www.nwkidney.org/nkc/howYouCanHelp/donate/index.html

I'm not sure if the on-line version allows one to indicate the name of the
person one is making a donation on behalf of, but you could likely follow up
an on-line donation with an e-mail to NWKC to add this information.

Feel free to contact me by private e-mail if you need some more help. The
link is available on the same contributor's page, towards the bottom, where
you saw some pictures of me.


Tom Wickerath
Microsoft Access MVP
http://www.accessmvp.com/TWickerath/
http://www.access.qbuilt.com/html/expert_contributors.html
__________________________________________

 

[Tom Wickerath]

PS. Looks like you can also make a donation via telephone, thus avoiding
having part of your donation feed PayPal.

 

[Tony Toews [MVP]]

PS. Looks like you can also make a donation via telephone, thus avoiding
having part of your donation feed PayPal.

Yeah, but if a donation involves a credit card then a certain
percentage, AFAIK about 2% to 4% is taken off the top by the credit
card vendor anyhow. And that's about how much PayPal takes too.

The only real solution to that is to use a cheque or money order.
Which requires a stamp, envelope and real initiative to avoid the
"Round To It" syndrome. <smile>

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/