Hard drive format compatibility - what am I missing?

[Brian Meadows]

I'm trying to help out someone with setting up a backup procedure.

There are two PCs to be backed up, a laptop running Windows Me (it's not capable
of running 2000 or XP) and a desktop running Windows XP SP2.

The backup device is an 80 GB external USB drive, and the aim is to get both
backups on to the one external drive.

I was under the impression that formatting the whole drive as one humongous
FAT32 partition would work, that Windows XP would read and write either NTFS or
FAT32. Seems it isn't that simple. :-(

I created a primary partition on the external drive using the laptop (Win Me),
let it take the whole 80 GB, formatted it and backed up the laptop. Everything
OK so far.

I then switched the external drive to the XP desktop, and found I couldn't see
the drive. Fired up the disk administrator, and Windows XP thought the drive was
all unallocated space.

I then tried creating a smaller FAT32 partition, 20 GB to be exact, formatted
that on the laptop and backed it up again without a problem. Switched the
external drive to the XP machine, expecting to be able to create another
partition to hold the XP backup. Nope. I looked at the drive in the disk
administrator, once again it saw the whole 80GB as unallocated space.

Does anyone have any idea what's going on? I was under the impression that XP
could handle both NTFS and FAT32 partitions. Is there some kind of size limit
for the FAT32 partition? Does it all need to be formatted on the XP box?

Thanks for any assistance,

Brian.

 

[Brian Meadows]

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:31:13 -0400, Brian Meadows <[email protected]>
wrote:


Sorry for the omission - that's Windows XP HE. Hardly use it myself, I forgot
about the two versions.

 

[Guest]

Your general assumptions are correct.
XP can handle all File Formats: Me cannot handle formats above FAT32.

Try these 2 Options [if you have Norton Ghost].
Create the Ghost start disk and accomodate USB device support during the
creation process, then on the XP system, boot from the start disk and create
the Backup: given that the external drive should be recognised by Ghost as it
loads its own Caldera DOS and you are not running any XP operating system
elements.

Or you could attempt to format the drive under XP and allocate a drive letter.
Then take the drive across to the Me system and see if that one can access
the drive. If so create your backup [are you using Ghost?] of the Me System.
Then take it to XP system and create the backup of that one.

 

[Trent©]

I'm trying to help out someone with setting up a backup procedure.

There are two PCs to be backed up, a laptop running Windows Me (it's not capable
of running 2000 or XP) and a desktop running Windows XP SP2.

The backup device is an 80 GB external USB drive, and the aim is to get both
backups on to the one external drive.

I was under the impression that formatting the whole drive as one humongous
FAT32 partition would work, that Windows XP would read and write either NTFS or
FAT32. Seems it isn't that simple. :-(

I created a primary partition on the external drive using the laptop (Win Me),
let it take the whole 80 GB, formatted it and backed up the laptop. Everything
OK so far.

What program did you use to do the backup?

I then switched the external drive to the XP desktop, and found I couldn't see
the drive. Fired up the disk administrator, and Windows XP thought the drive was
all unallocated space.

I then tried creating a smaller FAT32 partition, 20 GB to be exact, formatted
that on the laptop and backed it up again without a problem. Switched the
external drive to the XP machine, expecting to be able to create another
partition to hold the XP backup. Nope. I looked at the drive in the disk
administrator, once again it saw the whole 80GB as unallocated space.

Does anyone have any idea what's going on?

Not really! lol

Try formatting with the desktop machine first...then see how the
laptop handles it. Actually, try creating 2 partitions with the
desktop machine.

I was under the impression that XP
could handle both NTFS and FAT32 partitions. Is there some kind of size limit
for the FAT32 partition? Does it all need to be formatted on the XP box?

But here's what I'd do...

If yer just gonna use the drive for backups, boot into the floppy of
the program you want to use. For instance, you could boot into a
Ghost floppy...and then clone the partition on the desktop machine to
the first partition on the backup drive...then clone the laptop to the
second partition on the backup drive.

Good luck...let us know how you make out.


Have a nice one...

Trent

Budweiser: Helping ugly people have sex since 1876!

 

[Brian Meadows]

What program did you use to do the backup?

XCOPY ;-)

Not really! lol

Try formatting with the desktop machine first...then see how the
laptop handles it. Actually, try creating 2 partitions with the
desktop machine.

That was the last option I had to try, didn't get chance to try that yesterday,
I was working on the basis of let the older OS have first attempt, which seems
logically to be the correct way around.

But here's what I'd do...

If yer just gonna use the drive for backups, boot into the floppy of
the program you want to use. For instance, you could boot into a
Ghost floppy...and then clone the partition on the desktop machine to
the first partition on the backup drive...then clone the laptop to the
second partition on the backup drive.

Unfortunately he doesn't have Norton - that might be an option if I can't solve
it any other way.

Good luck...let us know how you make out.

If I solve it, I'll post the answer.


Brian.

 

[Brian Meadows]

Your general assumptions are correct.
XP can handle all File Formats: Me cannot handle formats above FAT32.

Try these 2 Options [if you have Norton Ghost].

Afraid not. All I have to work with is standard XP HE. As in reply to another
message, the "backup program" is good old XCOPY.

Create the Ghost start disk and accomodate USB device support during the
creation process, then on the XP system, boot from the start disk and create
the Backup: given that the external drive should be recognised by Ghost as it
loads its own Caldera DOS and you are not running any XP operating system
elements.

Or you could attempt to format the drive under XP and allocate a drive letter.
Then take the drive across to the Me system and see if that one can access
the drive. If so create your backup [are you using Ghost?] of the Me System.
Then take it to XP system and create the backup of that one.

The idea of letting the XP system have first try at formatting the drive is
counter-intuitive, but maybe that will work. It's certainly something to try
before I tell him he has to buy Ghost or something similar.

Brian.

 

[Yves Leclerc]

Here is a few thing that XP can not do with FAT32.

1) Can not format any hard drive greater than 32 GB. However, can read any
size of FAT32 drive.

2) Can not copy a file to/from a FAT 32 drive that is greater than 4GB.

3) Drives greater than 127Gb must be formatted with NTFS (XP) in order for
the drive to work correctly.

 

[R. C. White]

Hi, Brian.

Microsoft decided to limit WinXP's ability to FORMAT FAT32 to drives no
larger than 32 GB. However, Win9x/ME can format volumes up to at least 127
GB as FAT32. Once formatted by another operating system, WinXP (either Home
or Professional Edition) will happily USE the whole thing.

The only reason to make any part of the new drive FAT32 is if the
backup/restore program runs under Win9x/ME, which cannot read or write to
NTFS without third-party help.

I then tried creating a smaller FAT32 partition, 20 GB to be exact,
formatted
that on the laptop and backed it up again without a problem. Switched the
external drive to the XP machine, expecting to be able to create another
partition to hold the XP backup. Nope. I looked at the drive in the disk
administrator, once again it saw the whole 80GB as unallocated space.

I don't understand this, but maybe it's in your phrase, "the disk
administrator". Do you mean Disk Management, the utility built into WinXP?
Or is this a part of the backup software you are using? Perhaps something
that came with the USB drive? Maybe I should ask what software you are
using (on both machines) to do the backup and restore?

RC

 

[R. C. White]

2) Can not copy a file to/from a FAT 32 drive that is greater than 4GB.

That is, the FILE must not be greater than 4 GB. The drive can be much
larger.

RC

 

[Brian Meadows]

For anyone still interested in this, the problem is solved, but things got
really weird.

I brought the external drive home and tried it on my XP box, and everything
worked perfectly. Huh??

So I went back with the drive and tried it on the original PC, just to be sure I
wasn't hallucinating. Nope. ;-) What my XP box saw as a FAT32 volume, his XP box
saw as unallocated space.

Clutching at straws, I decided to reinstall SP2 on his machine, see whether that
could possibly make a difference. It did. One service pack later, and now I
could see the FAT32 partition on his XP box too. Fortunately I had a copy of the
full pack on CD, all ~300 MB worth.

As regards the underlying problem, I have no idea whatever. It beggars belief
that his operating system had become just sufficiently corrupted that the only
noticeable problem was not being able to read FAT32 drives, but unless and until
another answer comes along that fits the facts...

Thanks for the attempts to help, folks.

Brian.

 

[Brian Meadows]

Microsoft decided to limit WinXP's ability to FORMAT FAT32 to drives no
larger than 32 GB. However, Win9x/ME can format volumes up to at least 127
GB as FAT32. Once formatted by another operating system, WinXP (either Home
or Professional Edition) will happily USE the whole thing.

That was what I expected, and that was what *didn't* happen.

The only reason to make any part of the new drive FAT32 is if the
backup/restore program runs under Win9x/ME, which cannot read or write to
NTFS without third-party help.

The backup/restore program was XCOPY. You know, that dinosaur from the DOS
days... ;-)

I don't understand this, but maybe it's in your phrase, "the disk
administrator". Do you mean Disk Management, the utility built into WinXP?

Yes. My memory for names is horrendous. I was combining up Disk Management and
Administrative Tools, one of the "parent" icons.

Or is this a part of the backup software you are using? Perhaps something
that came with the USB drive? Maybe I should ask what software you are
using (on both machines) to do the backup and restore?

As above, plain old XCOPY. No third-party software involved. Anyway, as you'll
see from another posting I've just made, reinstalling XP SP2 seemed to solve the
problem.

Thanks anyway,

Brian.

 

[R. C. White]

Hi, Brian.

Thanks for the report of success (your other message); that might help the
next person with a similar problem. ;<) I have a couple of comments about
what you tell us in this post.

The backup/restore program was XCOPY. You know, that dinosaur from the DOS
days... ;-)

Yes, I like and often use Xcopy. My comment was because so many users have
backed up with Win98's Backup.exe and are trying to restore with WinXP's
program. As you probably know (but other readers may not), backup/restore
programs are often very picky. We have to restore with the same one (or its
companion program) as was used for the backup. My line should have included
the word "only", as in:

Yes. My memory for names is horrendous. I was combining up Disk Management
and
Administrative Tools, one of the "parent" icons.

Sorry to be so picky here. But sometimes, minor differences make a big
difference. Especially with Microsoft's penchant for deceptively-similar
names for quite different programs: Outlook vs. Outlook Express; Windows
Explorer vs. Internet Explorer - and don't get me started on all the
different Messengers! WinNT4 included Disk Manager, but it was nowhere near
as competent as Disk Management in Win2K and WinXP. I just wanted to be
sure we were talking about the same thing.

I'm glad you're up and running again. ;<)

RC

 

[Michael Stevens]

For anyone still interested in this, the problem is solved, but
things got really weird.

I brought the external drive home and tried it on my XP box, and
everything worked perfectly. Huh??

So I went back with the drive and tried it on the original PC, just
to be sure I wasn't hallucinating. Nope. ;-) What my XP box saw as a
FAT32 volume, his XP box saw as unallocated space.

Clutching at straws, I decided to reinstall SP2 on his machine, see
whether that could possibly make a difference. It did. One service
pack later, and now I could see the FAT32 partition on his XP box
too. Fortunately I had a copy of the full pack on CD, all ~300 MB
worth.

As regards the underlying problem, I have no idea whatever. It
beggars belief that his operating system had become just sufficiently
corrupted that the only noticeable problem was not being able to read
FAT32 drives, but unless and until another answer comes along that
fits the facts...

Thanks for the attempts to help, folks.

Brian.

SP 1 would probably fixed the problem also.

--
Michael Stevens MS-MVP XP
(e-mail address removed)
http://michaelstevenstech.com
For a better newsgroup experience. Setup a newsreader.
http://michaelstevenstech.com/outlookexpressnewreader.htm

 

[Brian Meadows]

SP 1 would probably fixed the problem also.

Quite possibly - but since he already had SP2 installed, that seemed the more
obvious choice.

Brian.

 

[Michael Stevens]

Quite possibly - but since he already had SP2 installed, that seemed
the more obvious choice.

Brian.

I agree, but for the systems that SP2 breaks, SP 1 is an option. Just adding
to your info.
--
Michael Stevens MS-MVP XP
(e-mail address removed)
http://michaelstevenstech.com
For a better newsgroup experience. Setup a newsreader.
http://michaelstevenstech.com/outlookexpressnewreader.htm