Hard disk migration/XP Boot hang problem with Windows XP professional

[Neil Bradley]

Sorry to cross post, but I believe this applies to the groups in the
Newsgroups: line.

I have a Windows XP system (this is a legit copy of XP SP 2 FWIW) that
ran a RAID 1 array with a hard drive that went partially bad. The disk
has developed bad sectors. The mirror drive, in all of my shifting
around, have accidentally reformatted due to a boot ordering change that
I didn't notice. ;-(

Anyway, I have done a chkdsk /f /r on the "bad" drive and the bad
sectors have now been marked by the operating system. This disk still
boots and runs just fine with the bad spots.

I have, about 5 times now, attempted to Ghost, with Norton Ghost v10,
the entire Windows XP system back to the other drive. Each Ghost attempt
yields a successful disk image copy, but all drives I've tried copying
the image to yield the same results: Windows XP comes up and does a
"soft hang" at the "Microsoft Windows XP" blue screen with the small
logo - right before I normally see the "Welcome text".

At this point, the network is pinging, the mouse is working, and I even
hear the sound device initialize, so it's pretty far in to the boot
process. None of the other boot modes, like any of the safe modes, work.

During this hang, if I hit alt-tab, I get "Windows logon" and "Logon" as
two of the tasks to switch to, but selecting either doesn't bring up
anything. It's almost as if it's stuck right before giving me the logon
screen.

I have Ghosted to 3 different drives (even the drive that I overwrote
accidentally) and to no avail - all Ghosting yields the same results. I
can't do a sector copy because the source drive has bad sectors in it.
However, the source drive with the bad sectors will still boot up and
run just fine now that the bad sectors are avoided.

I have stripped the hardware down to just the video card and onboard IDE
controller, and the drive in question, but the results are the same. The
bad drive will still boot and run. Any ghosted drive made from the bad
drive and put in place of the bad drive will boot up and get to this
part of XP's boot process and just live hang.

I'm desperate to get this working, as I'll be avoiding reinstalling
dozens of applications that have accumulated for a couple of years. Thanks,

-->Neil

 

[Jim]

You lost me a bit, you say one of the mirrored pair is reformatted by
accident, so it's useless. But then you say you repaired the other HD, and
it runs fine. Then say you need to recover a Ghost image? I thought the
other drive w/ bad sectors was repaired and good to go?

Anyway, if the Ghost'ed image is not booting, I suggest an XP repair
install.

Jim

 

[Neil Bradley]

You lost me a bit, you say one of the mirrored pair is reformatted by
accident, so it's useless. But then you say you repaired the other HD, and
it runs fine. Then say you need to recover a Ghost image? I thought the
other drive w/ bad sectors was repaired and good to go?

Sorry 'bout that - I kinda lost myself. ;-) Okay, here's how it shakes up:

RAID Array consisted of:
Maxtor 250G 7Y250(1) (bad)
Maxtor 250G 7Y250(2) (good)

The 7Y250(1) developed bad sectors. I removed 7Y250(1) and ran on the
7Y250(2). In prepping the drives to send back Maxtor, I accidentally
formatted the good drive rather than the bad drive.

So after the data was wiped out on the 7Y250(2) (good) drive, I decided
to go buy a 3rd drive - a Maxtor 250G 6Y250.

I first took the 250G 7Y250(1) (bad) and did a chkdsk /f /r to get
around the bad sectors. Then, I ghosted from the 7Y250(1) (bad) to the
new 6Y250 drive.

The 6Y250 drive is the drive that causes the aforementioned hang. I also
targeted a Western digital drive, the 7Y250(2) (good) drive, and another
Maxtor SATA drive - all of which hang at the same spot, so something in
the Ghosting process isn't working right, and that's with Ghost 10.

Is that any clearer? It's not a Ghost image, rather it's a ghosted image
(that is, it's not a Ghost image file).

Anyway, if the Ghost'ed image is not booting, I suggest an XP repair
install.

I tried that, and it gets to the "Installing Windows" item in the left
hand side of the screen and sits there - forever, with 29 minutes left
to go (and the system is still "live"). ;-(

-->Neil

 

[Jim]

Oh, didn't realize that it was the Windows XP Repair Install that was
hanging too, I thought you simply had restored the Ghost image and it was
hanging on boot-up

More comments below...

Jim

Sorry 'bout that - I kinda lost myself. ;-) Okay, here's how it shakes up:

RAID Array consisted of:
Maxtor 250G 7Y250(1) (bad)
Maxtor 250G 7Y250(2) (good)

The 7Y250(1) developed bad sectors. I removed 7Y250(1) and ran on the
7Y250(2). In prepping the drives to send back Maxtor, I accidentally
formatted the good drive rather than the bad drive.

Ugh.

So after the data was wiped out on the 7Y250(2) (good) drive, I decided
to go buy a 3rd drive - a Maxtor 250G 6Y250.

I first took the 250G 7Y250(1) (bad) and did a chkdsk /f /r to get
around the bad sectors. Then, I ghosted from the 7Y250(1) (bad) to the
new 6Y250 drive.

Ok, so then did the original Maxtor that now has marked bad sectors, are you
sure this boots? IOW, you're Ghosting it from the bad sector drive to the
new drive, but we don't know at this point if the bad sector drive is a good
source for Ghosting, correct? I mean, we're assuming here that it is, and
you merely Ghosted one to the other w/o ever testing the bootability of the
bad sector'd drive. It's important only to the extent that I'm trying to
determine if this is a problem w/ Ghost, OR, the source (i.e., bad sector
drive).

The 6Y250 drive is the drive that causes the aforementioned hang. I also
targeted a Western digital drive, the 7Y250(2) (good) drive, and another
Maxtor SATA drive - all of which hang at the same spot, so something in
the Ghosting process isn't working right, and that's with Ghost 10.

Is that any clearer? It's not a Ghost image, rather it's a ghosted image
(that is, it's not a Ghost image file).

Again, same issue. It's not clear if the *source*, based on the bad sector
drive, even boots! If it doesn't, Ghosting isn't the issue. (btw, by
Ghosting I assume you mean copy/clone from one HD to the other). On the
other hand, if the source HD does boot, then sure, this would point to the
Ghosting process. It may simply be that the copy/clone process was in
error. If so, I can suggest a work around using another tool.

 

[Neil Bradley]

Oh, didn't realize that it was the Windows XP Repair Install that was
hanging too, I thought you simply had restored the Ghost image and it was
hanging on boot-up

Both hang, actually (unfortunately). ;-(

Ugh.

Ugh is right.

Ok, so then did the original Maxtor that now has marked bad sectors, are you
sure this boots?

Yes, absolutely. It still boots, and in fact I'm running with it right
now (not from where I'm posting, however).

IOW, you're Ghosting it from the bad sector drive to the
new drive, but we don't know at this point if the bad sector drive is a good
source for Ghosting, correct?

Fortunately, we do know that it's good, because it boots/runs perfectly.

bad sector'd drive. It's important only to the extent that I'm trying to
determine if this is a problem w/ Ghost, OR, the source (i.e., bad sector
drive).

I'm almost thinking this is a problem with Ghost. Or else it's a Windows
security "feature".

drive, even boots! If it doesn't, Ghosting isn't the issue. (btw, by
Ghosting I assume you mean copy/clone from one HD to the other).

Yes, specifically in this case using Norton Ghost V10.

On the
other hand, if the source HD does boot, then sure, this would point to the
Ghosting process. It may simply be that the copy/clone process was in
error. If so, I can suggest a work around using another tool.

That would be WONDERFUL if you know of such a utility. If it does a
sector by sector copy, it'll probably be OK, but I can't find anything
that'll do a sector copy and simply ignore bad sectors.

Thanks again Jim!

-->Neil

 

[Jim]

Ok, so the good news is that this is *probably* a cloning issue w/ Ghost.
So here's my recommendation. Understand that there are 1001 ways to clone
the HD. Everyone seems to have their favorite. All I can say is, the
following ALWAYS works for me, so it's up to you, feel free to try it or
ignore it. It's from a script I've used before, so make adjustments as
necessary for your situation, usually for ppl moving to a larger HD.

How To Clone Old HD To New HD And Make New HD Bootable

1) Visit http://www.bootitng.com and download BootIt NG. Unzip the file and
execute BOOTITNG.EXE to create the bootable floppy or CD, your choice
(accept the defaults). Now shutdown the PC.

2) Assuming old HD is master on primary IDE controller (IDE1), move old HD
to slave on IDE1, or master on secondary IDE controller (IDE2). Install new
HD to master on IDE1 (replacing old HD). Be sure to get HD jumpers setup
correctly! Use cable select (CS) if unsure.

3) Now boot the BootIT NG floppy/CD. When the Welcome to Setup screen
appears, select Cancel, follow the prompts, and you will be taken to the
BootIt NG desktop, now select the Partition Manager.

4) Your new HD will be displayed by default (HD0). To see the contents of
the old HD, select HD1 (in the upper left corner). To clone HD1 to HD0,
select the first partition on HD1, hit Copy, switch to HD0, select the
freespace, and hit Paste. In all likelihood, you'll probably want to expand
the partition to take advantage of the increased drive capacity. Select the
newly cloned partition, hit Resize, choose a new size (if the file system
type is of type FAT, you can convert to FAT32 as well), then hit OK. Repeat
for each partition on HD1, in order.

HINT: If you are cloning a Windows XP partition based on FAT32 and intend to
convert to NTFS later, then once copied, select the cloned partition, hit
Slide, and choose the "Align for NTFS" option (the size parameters will be
disabled), and hit OK. This will ensure the NTFS conversion results in 4K
allocation units. If you don't do this, then the conversion to NTFS will
result in only 512 byte allocation units (not nearly as efficient).

5) At this point, although all the partitions on the old HD (HD1) have been
copied to the new HD (HD0), the new HD is NOT yet bootable, we'll correct
that now. Select HD0 from the upper left corner. Hit View MBR, and in the
dialog, you will notice four entries in the MBR (Master Boot Record). Each
entry w/ a non-zero address represents one of your cloned partitions.
Select the bootable partition (usually the first MBR entry), hit "Set
Active", and the partition will indicate Active status. Now hit "Std MBR",
this will initialize the boot loader in the MBR. Finally, hit Apply to save
the changes.

6) Hit Close, remove the BootIt NG floppy/CD, and hit Reboot. Your system
will now reboot as before but using the new HD. Before rebooting Windows,
you may wish to shutdown and remove the old HD (see notes below).

NOTES:

i) The procedures outlined herein are NON-DESTRUCTIVE to your old HD. If
you should happen to have any problems, you can always retry the procedures,
or even revert back to the old setup by simply placing the old HD back on
the primary IDE controller (IDE1) as master and removing the new HD (adjust
jumpers accordingly). Your system will be configured and boot EXACTLY as
before the new HD installation.

ii) If you decide to keep the old HD installed, beware that any partitions
on the old HD will appear within the booted OS as additional data
partitions. These partitions are usually assigned drive letters following
the last ATAPI devices (e.g., CD-ROM, CD-R/RW, DVD+/-R/RW) and/or removeable
storage devices (e.g., USB pen-drive, USB external HD) already installed.
It's your choice, you may wish to keep the old hard installed as a means to
re-clone should problems arise w/ the new HD. Or you might want to reformat
the old HD's partition(s) and use them for other purposes. Or perhaps
reboot BootIT NG, delete the old partitions, and create and format new ones.
The options are all there, it just depends on your personal preferences. Of
course, you can also remove the old HD and keep it safely tucked away as a
backup to the new HD. When you feel confident w/ the new HD, you could
reinstall it, clean it off w/ BootIT NG, and use it for any other purposes
you wish (e.g., periodically store images of the OS using BootIT NG).

iii) When cloning a Windows XP partition, you will most likely NOT have to
reactivate. Since activation writes to the partition (which you are merely
cloning) and a hard drive change is not itself enough to trigger
reactivation, it should not present a problem. But even if reactivation was
required for some reason, it's a trivial matter to call and get reactivated
w/ a five minute phone call. And if it's been 120 days since last
activation, the issue is moot. MS "wipes the slate clean" after 120 days,
meaning you can reinstall Windows XP and reactivate w/ ANY equipment changes
you deem necessary (a whole NEW system if need be), as if you had activated
for the very first time, no questions asked! So, at worst, it's a minor
inconvenience, more likely, a non-issue. I strongly recommend storing an
image of your OS immediately after activation so you can always return to a
given known state in case of viruses, data corruption, etc., w/o having to
concern yourself over reactivation.

HTH

Jim

 

[Hans-Georg Michna]

That would be WONDERFUL if you know of such a utility. If it does a
sector by sector copy, it'll probably be OK, but I can't find anything
that'll do a sector copy and simply ignore bad sectors.

Neil,

I always use Robocopy from the Windows Resource Kit to copy
entire installations. To do that I boot from a different
installation if I have another one. If not, I boot BartPE (from
a USB memory stick in my case, but you can boot it from a CD).

You could even use XCOPY, but Robocopy has a few subtle
advantages.

You can also do a backup and a restore.

More details at http://winhlp.com/WxMove.htm .

Hans-Georg

 

[Neil Bradley]

Ok, so the good news is that this is *probably* a cloning issue w/ Ghost.
So here's my recommendation. Understand that there are 1001 ways to clone
the HD. Everyone seems to have their favorite. All I can say is, the
following ALWAYS works for me, so it's up to you, feel free to try it or
ignore it. It's from a script I've used before, so make adjustments as
necessary for your situation, usually for ppl moving to a larger HD.

How To Clone Old HD To New HD And Make New HD Bootable
[snip]

Thanks for the help, Jim. I followed the instructions to the letter, and
I get "Missing operating system" when it attempts to boot to the newly
cloned drive. ;-( I'm wondering if a chkdsk with a "fix MBR" would work...

-->Neil

 

[Jim]

That message usually means that the bootable partition is NOT marked active,
double check it has an asterick. Also, make sure that THAT drive is the one
attempting to boot. If your BIOS is perhaps pointing to another HD, that
could be a problem too.

Yeah, you could try fixmbr, but I don't think it's the problem. Try it, but
you may have to run fixboot as well:

fixboot c:

This will rewrite the boot sector on that XP partition. Btw, to run either
of these commands, boot the XP CD and get to the repair command console.
There's always the outside chance that the boot sector has one more bad
sectors, and if that is the case, the drive is bad. The boot sector HAS to
work. It's highly unlikely, but it's always something you have to consider.

Finally, the last and only thing you could try is:

bootcfg /rebuild

That would rebuild the boot.ini file, install NTLDR, etc. But that seems
very unlikely to be the problem, it sounds like either a) it's not marked
Active, b) its not the HD attempting to be booted, c) the boot sector on
that partition is corrupted, perhaps due to bad sectors, or d) the boot.ini
and boot files need to be repaired.

If all these fail, I'm at a loss.

Jim

Ok, so the good news is that this is *probably* a cloning issue w/ Ghost.
So here's my recommendation. Understand that there are 1001 ways to clone
the HD. Everyone seems to have their favorite. All I can say is, the
following ALWAYS works for me, so it's up to you, feel free to try it or
ignore it. It's from a script I've used before, so make adjustments as
necessary for your situation, usually for ppl moving to a larger HD.

How To Clone Old HD To New HD And Make New HD Bootable
[snip]

Thanks for the help, Jim. I followed the instructions to the letter, and
I get "Missing operating system" when it attempts to boot to the newly
cloned drive. ;-( I'm wondering if a chkdsk with a "fix MBR" would work...

-->Neil

 

[Neil Bradley]

That message usually means that the bootable partition is NOT marked active,
double check it has an asterick. Also, make sure that THAT drive is the one
attempting to boot. If your BIOS is perhaps pointing to another HD, that
could be a problem too.
[snip]

Thanks Jim! I wound up running fixmbr and it was able to boot... back to
the same "Microsoft Windows XP" screen with the same exact hang I had
with Norton Ghost. ;-( Sigh....

Well, I think I'm going to cry uncle on this one and just back up the
settings, and reinstall everything. I wanted to avoid doing this, but I
would've been "Back to normal" several days ago had I done this.

Thanks again Jim, and best wishes to you and yours!

-->Neil