Hard Disk Copy Fails (both drives good)

[David]

HELP!!!!!!!!

I'm using XP-Pro SP3
File system = NTFS

I have 3 identically hard drives (grandfather, father, son) in removable
hard disk carriages.
Master drive (son) has two partitions and is half full.
Drive IMO does, however, have a number of small files.

Since DOS 1.0 or 1.1 I've used Western Digital Lifeguard tools to mirror
drives without a problem.

Downloaded MS's latest security upgrades this week and this is first attempt
to mirror drive since upgrade. A new KB authentication was part of the
download.

Since installing XP and Microsoft's implementation of authentication I seem
to have periodic problems making a copy. Works sometimes other times NOT.
Tonight NOT.

Boot partition copies about 98 -99% then copy software error with
"Hit any key to reboot" -- but process has not completed as 2nd partition
not copied and drive will not boot.

Drives have been verified as good.
Memory has been verified as good.
Receiving drive has been zeroed.
No viruses or other malicious software.

Search of NET indicates others seem to experience similar problems (WD seems
to be referenced most often) but no solutions.

IMHO this is a software NOT a hardware issue.

======== QUESTIONS ===================

Anyone know why -- a fix -- or anything to help?

 

[Andrew E.]

Most 3rd party mirroring software fails in xp,most software is geared to
older windows OS,xp has security measures that also fail most transfers.XP
actually has its own mirroring software installed, "XCOPY"...XCOPY however
usually is run with IDE hds.You can still try it on a removable hd,simply
format
the hd in xp,then go to run,type:XCOPY C:\*.* D:\ /c/h/e/k/r Agree to all
in
the DOS window.D: being the new hd,if asigned a diffrent letter,then use that
letter instead.Also,usually the new hd is set as slave to C: on the same IDE
cable.For more XCOPY info,go to:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb490135.aspx

 

[DL]

Total cobblers, as usual

Most 3rd party mirroring software fails in xp,most software is geared to
older windows OS,xp has security measures that also fail most transfers.XP
actually has its own mirroring software installed, "XCOPY"...XCOPY however
usually is run with IDE hds.You can still try it on a removable hd,simply
format
the hd in xp,then go to run,type:XCOPY C:\*.* D:\ /c/h/e/k/r Agree to
all
in
the DOS window.D: being the new hd,if asigned a diffrent letter,then use
that
letter instead.Also,usually the new hd is set as slave to C: on the same
IDE
cable.For more XCOPY info,go to:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb490135.aspx

 

[DL]

Surely the master drive is 'grandfather'

I read it that you are cloning the drive using WD tools and ocasionaly the
cloned drive fails to boot, or the clone operation fails to complete, and
terminates with an error, correct?

If this is an intermittant problem then it would appear to be a system
specific hw problem, and as such difficult to pin down.
I dont use WD Tools to clone/mirror but use Acronis, the only time I've had
a problem I found that memory was the cause - errors detected after running
extensive tests using www.memtest.org utilities

 

[John John - MVP]

Andrew you have never even tried this, why don't you try it and find out
for yourself how well it works.

John

 

[David]

Thanks for posts.

Since occurs near end of copy, didn't know whether:

1) MS is doing something screwy with their copy protection scheme --
e.g. long track or short track that was used with floppies in the 80's

2) something Dr DOS doesn't like with the NTFS format?

------------------------------

Whether Acronis, Ghost, or WD all should do the same thing.

Ran extensive memory test with other software (not Mem86) -- all tests
passed. Will do again with Mem86. The last time this occurred, about four
backups ago, I finally pulled and reseated things (including memory) and
finally got a backup -- but cause / effect ?

Guess only way know sure if hardware issue is put in another machine and try
copying.

-----------------
Andrew E. Have seen other of your posts regarding using XCOPY and being
chided for the post. Haven't used XCOPY in years so personally don't know
whether or not it will work on XP. Out of curiosity when I have extra
time, I'll use one of my old backups and give it a shot .
If however, you haven't actually tried it, and get your jollies from "@#$%^"
people, -- then remember -- there is always someone smarter out there that
may want to #$%^& you at some future date when you're in need.

 

[DL]

Unless WD Tools produce a log file of the process allmost impossible to
asertain what is occuring, assuming all hw has
tested good
Acronis & probably Ghost does produce a log file of the process, which can
give a clue as to reasons for failure.

 

[David]

Thanks DL

Getting a log file is an EXCELLENT idea!
Intermittents are a #@$!%&.

 

[Patrick Keenan]

Thanks DL

Getting a log file is an EXCELLENT idea!
Intermittents are a #@$!%&.

Intermittents are certainly one of the hardest things to deal with, but I
will say that I have zero problems with cloning or copying disks using
TrueImage, unless there is a problem with the disk or the drive adapter.

I routinely use USB to IDE or SATA connectors to clone disks (or for data
recovery), but sometimes, the drive has to be attached via internal cable
for the process to work properly.

HTH
-pk

 

[David]

You may wish to review:

http://www.techsupportalert.com/drive-imaging-reviews.htm#comment-20581

 

[Anna]

HELP!!!!!!!!

I'm using XP-Pro SP3
File system = NTFS

I have 3 identically hard drives (grandfather, father, son) in removable
hard disk carriages.
Master drive (son) has two partitions and is half full.
Drive IMO does, however, have a number of small files.

Since DOS 1.0 or 1.1 I've used Western Digital Lifeguard tools to mirror
drives without a problem.

Downloaded MS's latest security upgrades this week and this is first
attempt to mirror drive since upgrade. A new KB authentication was part
of the download.

Since installing XP and Microsoft's implementation of authentication I
seem to have periodic problems making a copy. Works sometimes other times
NOT. Tonight NOT.

Boot partition copies about 98 -99% then copy software error with
"Hit any key to reboot" -- but process has not completed as 2nd partition
not copied and drive will not boot.

Drives have been verified as good.
Memory has been verified as good.
Receiving drive has been zeroed.
No viruses or other malicious software.

Search of NET indicates others seem to experience similar problems (WD
seems to be referenced most often) but no solutions.

IMHO this is a software NOT a hardware issue.

======== QUESTIONS ===================

Anyone know why -- a fix -- or anything to help?

David:
Let me say at the outset that over the years we've found the WD Data
Lifeguard Tools disk-cloning application somewhat problematic, to say the
least. While we (and others) have on numerous occasions found the program to
be effective re its disk-cloning capability, we've (and others) have run
into more than our share of problems using this program in comparison to
other disk-to-disk cloning programs. So I wanted to get that comment
out-of-the-way at the outset.

If your experience with that program has always (at least up to now) been
satisfactory over a good number of years as you've indicated, you're
fortunate indeed based on our experience.

Anyway, on to your problem...

(If you don't mind I'll forgo references to the "filial relationships" among
the three HDDs.)

Your problem, as I understand it, is that the disk-cloning operation fails
when you attempt to clone the contents of your source HDD (the one you refer
to as "Master") to one (or both?) of your secondary HDDs. Do I understand
the gist of your problem?

You seem to be attributing the problem to a recent MS security update that
you downloaded/installed. And that this update involved some sort of MS
"authentication" process (or "implementation" of such) as possibly the cause
of the disk-cloning problem you're experiencing. Do I correctly understand
you?

If so, I would find it hard to understand how all this would affect the
disk-cloning process.

Aside from the problem you're having booting to the destination HDD
apparently resulting from the failed disk-cloning operation, can we assume
that there's no problem with your source HDD, i.e., it boots without
incident and functions without any problem(s)? And assuming your 3rd HDD is
also a previous clone of your boot drive, that HDD also works without any
problems?

I assume you repeated the disk-cloning exercise with the WD utility but with
the same results, right? Have you tried the disk-cloning operation with any
other program, e.g., the trial version of Acronis True Image? Just to see if
that would work?
Anna

 

[DL]

I cannot say I've experienced any problems with TI and nvidea

 

[David]

DL

I was just referencing all the issues TrueImage has with XP.

I still think MS is $%#^@ with the master boot record which is &^*@! up the
ability to clone I've been using MS stuff since DOS 1 or 1.1 and am about
ready to change OSes because of all the hassles with cloning and the ability
to have a mirrored backup in case of emergencies

I respect MS need to protect their copyright, but when I waste countless
hours of my time because of it, it is time to find a different horse to
ride.

If enough others feel this way then maybe MS will change -- but I don't hold
out a lot of hope.

 

[David]

Thanks for input Anna:

In regards to:

1) WD LIfeguard -- used over 30 years without a problems.
Only since XP started using authentication has problem existed.
I lay this at MS feet, as WD drives can be used in any machine, not
just PC.

2) If so, I would find it hard to understand how all this would affect the
disk-cloning process

I agree, doesn't seem logical for a byte by byte copy. However, going back
a number of years (20 or 30), one of the floppy disk schemas to prevent
copying was to create a long or short track, which fooled the OS.

I find it very odd that the data partition copies fine, but the boot
partition fails and fails near its completion.

3) Have you tried the disk-cloning operation with any other program,

No. But research of NET, indicates others such as TrueImage, Ghost, XXCOPY
etc. seem to have a number of problems. See

http://www.techsupportalert.com/drive-imaging-reviews.htm#comment-20581

The number of people having problems trying to clone XP is no small number.

4) My next step is to pull the drives and move them to another machine.
This will at least eliminate everything but the drives from the equation.

 

[Anna]

Thanks for input Anna:

In regards to:

1) WD LIfeguard -- used over 30 years without a problems.
Only since XP started using authentication has problem existed.
I lay this at MS feet, as WD drives can be used in any machine, not
just PC.

2) If so, I would find it hard to understand how all this would affect
the
disk-cloning process

I agree, doesn't seem logical for a byte by byte copy. However, going
back a number of years (20 or 30), one of the floppy disk schemas to
prevent copying was to create a long or short track, which fooled the OS.

I find it very odd that the data partition copies fine, but the boot
partition fails and fails near its completion.

3) Have you tried the disk-cloning operation with any other program,

No. But research of NET, indicates others such as TrueImage, Ghost,
XXCOPY etc. seem to have a number of problems. See

http://www.techsupportalert.com/drive-imaging-reviews.htm#comment-20581

The number of people having problems trying to clone XP is no small
number.

4) My next step is to pull the drives and move them to another machine.
This will at least eliminate everything but the drives from the equation.

David:
Without belaboring the issue, our experience with the WD Data Lifeguard
Tools disk-to-disk cloning utility has been considerably different from
yours as I have previously indicated.

Be that as it may...

I really think you would be wise to at least use the trial version of the
Acronis True Image program and use its disk-cloning capability and see what
happens. What have you really got to lose by so doing? In my opinion you
should not base your reluctance to use this program on the fact that you've
come across this or that negative argument "bad-mouthing" the program. Have
you ever known of *any* program commercially-available that wasn't the
object of negative reviews by some persons or reviewers? The fact remains,
as you must surely know, that thousands upon thousands of ATI users are
quite satisfied with the program.

Actually, the program I would *really* like you to use is my favorite
disk-cloning program - the Casper 5 program. A trial version of that program
is available at http://www.fssdev.com
The trial program is, however, slightly crippled in that it will create a
partition on the "destination" HDD only as large as the disk-size of the
"source" HDD. In other words if a user, for example, was cloning the
contents of an 80 GB HDD to a 320 GB HDD, the partition created on the
destination HDD would be limited to 80 GB, the remaining disk-space would be
unallocated. That limitation probably wouldn't have any significant effect
on your particular situation in determining whether there's some problem
with your source HDD (or even possibly the destination drive) and at the
same time would give you some idea of the effectiveness of the Casper 5
program.

We're assuming in all this that you're dealing with non-defective HDDs with
uncorrupted data that might impact on the disk-cloning operation.

Assuming you haven't done so already, you should check out your HDDs (at
least those involved in the disk-cloning operations) with the HDD diagnostic
utility generally freely available from the disks' manufacturer(s).
Anna

 

[David]

Thanks again for the response.

1) May give Casper a try. One I never heard / seen before.

2) Out of curiosity, and in regard to WD, you keep referring to
"we" and "our". Who are they -- company you work for, org you belong to,
personal contacts?

David

 

[Randall Flagg]

Thanks again for the response.

1) May give Casper a try. One I never heard / seen before.

Probably because not many people use it. There's a reason for that.

2) Out of curiosity, and in regard to WD, you keep referring to
"we" and "our". Who are they -- company you work for, org you belong to,
personal contacts?

Good question.

 

[Anna]

Thanks again for the response.

1) May give Casper a try. One I never heard / seen before.

2) Out of curiosity, and in regard to WD, you keep referring to
"we" and "our". Who are they -- company you work for, org you belong to,
personal contacts?

David

David:
1) Since a trial version of Casper 5 is available, I would strongly suggest
you give it a try. Ditto for the Acronis program as well. And for that
matter any other disk-cloning/disk-imaging program you find after a Google
search that is either freely available or there's an available trial-demo
version.

2) I've worked in the computer industry for a good many years in various
capacities including that of computer technician. So I sometimes use the
"we" pronoun as a sort of composite experience of the people with whom I've
worked/consulted/interacted in some fashion. And, of course, I've dealt with
thousands of PC customers over the years so that obviously colors my
points-of-view both generally & specifically.

Also, I'm prone to use that editorial first-person plural pronoun in my
technical writing. Probably just a bad habit...
Anna

 

[David]

Thanks Anna

Found another one called Clonezilla -- Open Source
Also found Linex will make a copy.

Been with MS a long time, but since XP, nothing but issues
-- cloning
-- automatic updates (I do manually, but #'s are ridiculous)
-- backdoor access to your computer through various services
-- etc.

Have given a lot of thought of going totally open source, but its got its
problems too.

Seen a lot of large/small computer companies come and go over the years.
Maybe MS
is on that downward spiral as offerings since Win98 "seem" to always have
some kind of issue -- and --- support for any kind of problem #$@%^, as MS
wants you to spend big $$$$$$$ to resolve a simple problem that they may
know about or even created.
Even a search of MSDN a lot of time provides no info on problem.

Oh Well, no one said it was supposed to be easy.

David