Group challenge

G

GT

Is it going to be possible to improve the performance of the following PC on
a £100 (UK) budget. Performance improvement required for 3D gaming mainly
and if possilbe, general windows use:

Socket A Athlon 2500+ (undervolted to run cooler)
Soltek SL75-DRV5 with 1GB + 0.5GB of DDR 333 memory.
Radeon 8500 64MB AGP graphics.
Samsung spinpoint 160GB EIDE drive.

The processor is the fastest that the motherboard can handle

The PC is completely silent:
There is a Zalman silent flower cooler on the processor.
There is a replacement, zalman cooler on the GPU.
The case is modified (holes hacked in the back) with several undervolted
fans which run silently.

Any upgrade should not add too much noise.

As I see it, the processor and graphics card are the slow points in the
system, but to upgrade the processor means upgrading the motherboard, which
probably means new style RAM and a PCI-E graphics card. This is not possible
for the budget.

New graphics cards such as a 7600GS or X1600 are available in AGP format,
but is there any performance gain to be made for games, or would this
processor significantly hold back a newer generation graphics card?
 
K

kony

Is it going to be possible to improve the performance of the following PC on
a £100 (UK) budget. Performance improvement required for 3D gaming mainly
and if possilbe, general windows use:

Depends on what £100 (UK) budget will buy (being unfamiliar
with the best market prices there).


Socket A Athlon 2500+ (undervolted to run cooler)


If it'll run at stock undervolted, it'll probably run
slightly (or even a lot) overclocked too. We don't know if
the system would be used for anything critical though, nor
how much ability or time you want to put into it... but
ultimately there's no real magic to save money, it costs
time to o'c, or look for good prices, or find less demanding
software/game/whatever, etc.

Anyway it appears your board has KT333 chipset which may not
be very overclockable on the memory with 1.5GB in it,
otherwise it might get up around 170FSB or slightly more
before the AGP divider started to cause graphics problems.
You might be able to bump the FSB up a little though, which
isn't a good long term solution but given your CPU already
demonstrates it can run undervolted, it's quite likely to do
fine at about 10% clock rate increase.


Soltek SL75-DRV5 with 1GB + 0.5GB of DDR 333 memory.
Radeon 8500 64MB AGP graphics.

The seemingly obvious answer is to replace the video card.
As mentioned above I don't know what 100 will get you but
maybe an ATI X800GTO or nVidia 7600GS, GTS or even GT
(though these latter two probably above 100, but you could
look around for deals).

Samsung spinpoint 160GB EIDE drive.

The processor is the fastest that the motherboard can handle

Yes, no, maybe. If your 2500 is multiplier locked you can't
raise it's multiplier and are bound by the FSB, but if your
board allows setting multipliers then it might be able to
run a Mobile Athlon XP2400-2600, which overclock fairly well
and (as implied) don't have a locked multiplier so you can
raise that to get it up to at least 2.2GHz.

It is only a passing comment though, not that much benefit
relative to newer parts.


The PC is completely silent:
There is a Zalman silent flower cooler on the processor.
There is a replacement, zalman cooler on the GPU.
The case is modified (holes hacked in the back) with several undervolted
fans which run silently.

Any upgrade should not add too much noise.


You seem to be a bit too picky for your goal, wouldn't
everyone like a really cheap no-catch upgrade? If it were
so easy who would buy the more expensive parts?

Anyway, the closest thing to your goal is a nVidia 7600GS
with a passive heatsink on it. Just be sure your case
airflow is acceptible for this, you may want to leave the
adjacent PCI slot empty and that slot's case bracket cover
off for some passive flow-by induced by the other case
fan(s).


As I see it, the processor and graphics card are the slow points in the
system,

And the memory speed and the chipset's lower PCI efficiency
(Via southbridges in that era had lower realized throughput
regardless of having same bus width and frequency as the
other contemporary alternatives from Sis, Intel, nVidia),
and lower memory performance (less of an impact than the
other factors but still every little bit adds up).



but to upgrade the processor means upgrading the motherboard, which
probably means new style RAM and a PCI-E graphics card. This is not possible
for the budget.

Yes, this is why it's typical to set aside the $ and then
when enough has accumulated to do the larger upgrade.

It's really not cost effective in the long run to buy a
video card or CPU for that system. If your memory is all
PC2700 or better then the cheapest means to your end would
be a socket 939 board, Athlon 64, and PCI Express video
card. The total might be about double your budget. Reusing
the PC2700/DDR333 memory would be a bit of a performance
penalty relative to faster memory but it's still going to be
most of the performance at the best performance:money ratio
unless you can increase budget enough for a Core2Duo CPU,
DDR2 memory, and even with these the bottleneck for your
expressed purpose of gaming will be the video card far
moreso than which of the former two CPU replacements and
memory you chose.


New graphics cards such as a 7600GS or X1600 are available in AGP format,
but is there any performance gain to be made for games, or would this
processor significantly hold back a newer generation graphics card?


yes and yes

There is a significant performance gain from your present
card and yet your processor will bottleneck them a bit in
many games. For the budget you would definitely be making
compromises, kinda why people don't just replace one part on
a multiple year old system. Wouldn't it be great if it was
that cheap and quick?
 
K

kony

Is it going to be possible to improve the performance of the following PC on
a £100 (UK) budget. Performance improvement required for 3D gaming mainly
and if possilbe, general windows use:

Socket A Athlon 2500+ (undervolted to run cooler)
Soltek SL75-DRV5 with 1GB + 0.5GB of DDR 333 memory.
Radeon 8500 64MB AGP graphics.
Samsung spinpoint 160GB EIDE drive.

The processor is the fastest that the motherboard can handle

The PC is completely silent:
There is a Zalman silent flower cooler on the processor.
There is a replacement, zalman cooler on the GPU.
The case is modified (holes hacked in the back) with several undervolted
fans which run silently.

Any upgrade should not add too much noise.

As I see it, the processor and graphics card are the slow points in the
system, but to upgrade the processor means upgrading the motherboard, which
probably means new style RAM and a PCI-E graphics card. This is not possible
for the budget.

New graphics cards such as a 7600GS or X1600 are available in AGP format,
but is there any performance gain to be made for games, or would this
processor significantly hold back a newer generation graphics card?


This topic (or very closely related) was posted as separate
threads started by you and answered on Jan 26 '07, Oct 17th
'06, Feb 2nd '06, Jan 19th '06, Jul 19th '05, Jul 18th '05,
and probably other dates as well.

Isn't it about time you quit and bought something already?
You can't possibly be serious about an upgrade if after all
this time you couldn't put away more than £100 towards it.
 
P

Paul

GT said:
Is it going to be possible to improve the performance of the following PC on
a £100 (UK) budget. Performance improvement required for 3D gaming mainly
and if possilbe, general windows use:

Socket A Athlon 2500+ (undervolted to run cooler)
Soltek SL75-DRV5 with 1GB + 0.5GB of DDR 333 memory.
Radeon 8500 64MB AGP graphics.
Samsung spinpoint 160GB EIDE drive.

The processor is the fastest that the motherboard can handle

The PC is completely silent:
There is a Zalman silent flower cooler on the processor.
There is a replacement, zalman cooler on the GPU.
The case is modified (holes hacked in the back) with several undervolted
fans which run silently.

Any upgrade should not add too much noise.

As I see it, the processor and graphics card are the slow points in the
system, but to upgrade the processor means upgrading the motherboard, which
probably means new style RAM and a PCI-E graphics card. This is not possible
for the budget.

New graphics cards such as a 7600GS or X1600 are available in AGP format,
but is there any performance gain to be made for games, or would this
processor significantly hold back a newer generation graphics card?

http://www.dabs.com/productlist.asp...=11137&PageMode=1&PageOffset=0&RecordOffset=0
XFX GeForce 7600GT 256MB DDR3 AGP8x Dual Link DVI £108.20

You can compare the stats of your 8500 (on the second web page) versus the
current gen of cards (on the first web page). The benchmark.pl page is
no longer updated, which is why I use an archived copy. Not all the
Techpowerup data is accurate (such as which cards are hardware DX9).

http://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/
http://web.archive.org/web/20050305...ykuly/zestawienie_GPU_2/skala_wydajnosci.html

A new video card will allow you to play with higher detail settings.
At least that is what an upgrade did for me.

Paul
 
V

VanShania

Toms Hardware did a write up a about what would be the minimum requirements
for playing todays popular titles like Doom 3, Quake 4, Flight sims, Silent
Hunter 3. And your computer is well below it. Look on any game title boxes
minimum requirements and you will see that 128 mb Vid card is needed for
most. My 9800pro 128mb card is barely adequate(all graphic settings at
lowest detail). If it wasn't an all in wonder, it would already be gone. Now
if you would have purchased DDR400 from the start, you could have saved your
self some money. For 3D gaming you need a minimum 2.2 ghz cpu, a Direct X 9
vid card(nvidia 7900, X1900 are cheaper these days) and some dual channel
ram, min 1 gb. And in your case, going AM2 single core, ddr2 ram is the
cheapest alternative.

--
Love and Teach, Not Yell and Beat
Stop Violence and Child Abuse.
No such thing as Bad Kids. Only Bad Parents.
It is violent/abusive/neglectful parents that churn out the serial
killers/murderers/child molesters etc.

A64 3500+, Gigabyte GA-K8NSC-939,AIW 9800 Pro 128mb
MSI 550 Pro, X-Fi, Pioneer 110D, 111D
Antec 550 watt,Thermaltake Lanfire,2 Gb OCZ Platinum 2-3-2-5
2XSATA 320gb Raid Edition, PATA 120Gb
XP MCE2005, 19in Viewsonic,BenchMark 2001 SE- 19074
Games I'm Playing- NFS: Most Wanted, Civ 4
 
V

VanShania

And that would be a 2.2 ghz cpu in socket 939 or AM2 using 4 X 200 fsb
configuraation as to your 2 X 166.

--
Love and Teach, Not Yell and Beat
Stop Violence and Child Abuse.
No such thing as Bad Kids. Only Bad Parents.
It is violent/abusive/neglectful parents that churn out the serial
killers/murderers/child molesters etc.

A64 3500+, Gigabyte GA-K8NSC-939,AIW 9800 Pro 128mb
MSI 550 Pro, X-Fi, Pioneer 110D, 111D
Antec 550 watt,Thermaltake Lanfire,2 Gb OCZ Platinum 2-3-2-5
2XSATA 320gb Raid Edition, PATA 120Gb
XP MCE2005, 19in Viewsonic,BenchMark 2001 SE- 19074
Games I'm Playing- NFS: Most Wanted, Civ 4
 
G

GT

kony said:
This topic (or very closely related) was posted as separate
threads started by you and answered on Jan 26 '07, Oct 17th
'06, Feb 2nd '06, Jan 19th '06, Jul 19th '05, Jul 18th '05,
and probably other dates as well.

Isn't it about time you quit and bought something already?
You can't possibly be serious about an upgrade if after all
this time you couldn't put away more than £100 towards it.

How do you know that - my newsgroup provider only retains messages for about
a month and a half, so I don't have those old posts.
Also, technology and prices have moved on since Jul 05 and Jan 06, so I
think it was reasonable to ask again. As far as budget goes - priorities
change! I have saved up money a few times, but then we had a baby, moved
house and now have another baby on the way, hence the limited PC budget
(still)! I'd rather have things this way, than have lots of spare cash!

Thanks for your advice in your other post - I will take some time and see
how stable things are with some overclocking. I think I might get a newer
motherboard, so I can overclock the chip + RAM and leave the graphics and
PCI speeds untouched, then consider a new graphics card. I can probably
manage this with my limited funds!
 
G

GT

Is there a Socket A motherboard with a PCI-E graphics card, so I can keep my
athlon 2500+ and DDR333 memory, but upgrade my graphics?
 
K

kony

How do you know that - my newsgroup provider only retains messages for about
a month and a half, so I don't have those old posts.

Spy cameras, lots and lots of spy cameras. ;-)


Also, technology and prices have moved on since Jul 05 and Jan 06, so I
think it was reasonable to ask again.

Not really, when you need to upgrade, then is the time to
ask. Once answered, then is the time to buy. It is
ridiculous to ask over and over and over and over and over
and... (literally, you've already demonstrated there is no
reasonable purpose to your post by not taking the advice by
making the purchase).

Yes technology and prices changed, as they did 3 years ago,
2, 1, and they will keep changing next year, and the next,
.... so it doesn't matter, they will change again after this
time you'd asked.

As far as budget goes - priorities
change! I have saved up money a few times, but then we had a baby, moved
house and now have another baby on the way, hence the limited PC budget
(still)! I'd rather have things this way, than have lots of spare cash!

Ok, that is quite understandable, but then why did you ask
those several times in the past if the budget wasn't there
to buy? Nevermind, you shouldn't have to defend your
position, my suggestion was more a long the lines of "it
doesn't help you to know if you're not going to buy one".

You do see how it can be a bit odd looking to have the same
question asked so many times?
 
P

paulmd

Is it going to be possible to improve the performance of the following PCon
a £100 (UK) budget. Performance improvement required for 3D gaming mainly
and if possilbe, general windows use:

Socket A Athlon 2500+ (undervolted to run cooler)
Soltek SL75-DRV5 with 1GB + 0.5GB of DDR 333 memory.
Radeon 8500 64MB AGP graphics.
Samsung spinpoint 160GB EIDE drive.

The processor is the fastest that the motherboard can handle

The PC is completely silent:
There is a Zalman silent flower cooler on the processor.
There is a replacement, zalman cooler on the GPU.
The case is modified (holes hacked in the back) with several undervolted
fans which run silently.

Any upgrade should not add too much noise.

As I see it, the processor and graphics card are the slow points in the
system, but to upgrade the processor means upgrading the motherboard, which
probably means new style RAM and a PCI-E graphics card. This is not possible
for the budget.

New graphics cards such as a 7600GS or X1600 are available in AGP format,
but is there any performance gain to be made for games, or would this
processor significantly hold back a newer generation graphics card?

Don't spend money on it. The most you might do is overclock it, (out
of warranty by now anyway ;) )
 

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