Grinding Power Supply?

[kony]

In their defense, he said he thought it might be made by Antec, but said he
wasn't really sure. Now, here's the problem, before I installed the new PSU, I
looked at every connector from the old PSU and saw it was connected to my CDRW
drive, my DVD drive, and my hard drive, and the MB. That was it. So, I
installed the new PSU but unfortunately none of the connectors were marked P1,
P2, P3, etc. So, I had no idea where any of them went.

It doesn't really matter. Some people will try to "balance" the load
over multiple leads but the usual wire used for power supplies can
handle more current than ~3 devices would draw. Since different power
supplies have different lead lengths, that is more significant, how to
route wires out of the way and not have a difficult-to-work-around
mess in the case.

So I took the
connectors that had 4 pin holes and connected to my CDRW, DVD and hard drive,
then I connected the one to the MB. Then I closed up everything and powered
up. So far, it was sounding good. However, my monitor will only stay in
standby mode and the screen stays black. I have absolutely no clue what I'm
doing wrong. Do you have any advice you can offer me?

You didn't mention other parts like the floppy drive, but assuming you
did hook up all devices then you did fine, hooking up a power supply
is as simple as it seems. The only thing to watch for (besides making
sure any fans that "might've" been connected to the power supply, are)
is that the input voltage selection switch on the rear, where the AC
cord enters, is set correct for your location, @110 or 115V, that
range, not 220-230.

I guess I could take it
to CompUSA but if it's something simple, I would rather fix it myself. Right
now I'm on my old HP pentium and the monitor works with it, so I know it's not
my monitor.

Thanks so much for all your help.

To recap this whole situation, your previous 250W PSU powers the
system fine, it worked, but had a grinding fan. This new power supply
labeled as 400W is not even getting the system to POST. It would seem
there are two possibilities, either something in the case was
disturbed while installing the new power supply (check cards, memory,
cables, etc to be sure everything's in it's proper place, well-seated,
connected), or the new power supply can't even power a system that an
old 250W could, is junk and/or defective.

You might reattach the old power supply to be sure the system
continues to POST in it's current state, to double-check that... if
all else remains the same and the old power supply works but the new
one doesn't, clearly the new one is the problem.

Since it's not even clear how good the power supply is, I'd seek a
refund, not exchange.


Dave

 

[PawsForThought]

From: kony (e-mail address removed)

You didn't mention other parts like the floppy drive, but assuming you
did hook up all devices then you did fine, hooking up a power supply
is as simple as it seems. The only thing to watch for (besides making
sure any fans that "might've" been connected to the power supply, are)
is that the input voltage selection switch on the rear, where the AC
cord enters, is set correct for your location, @110 or 115V, that
range, not 220-230.

I did connect the floppy. What's odd though is it was not connected when I had
the old PSU in there as I made note of everything that was connected. Anyway,
I did connect it with the new PSU and made sure the voltage was at 115V.

To recap this whole situation, your previous 250W PSU powers the
system fine, it worked, but had a grinding fan. This new power supply
labeled as 400W is not even getting the system to POST. It would seem
there are two possibilities, either something in the case was
disturbed while installing the new power supply (check cards, memory,
cables, etc to be sure everything's in it's proper place, well-seated,
connected), or the new power supply can't even power a system that an
old 250W could, is junk and/or defective.

I am going to re-seat my video card, just to make sure that's ok.

You might reattach the old power supply to be sure the system
continues to POST in it's current state, to double-check that... if
all else remains the same and the old power supply works but the new
one doesn't, clearly the new one is the problem.

Since it's not even clear how good the power supply is, I'd seek a
refund, not exchange.

Well, I now have an Antec PSU 400W, their Smart Power model! I went to CompUSA
with my computer and asked them to take a look at it to make sure all was
hooked up correctly. The guy checked it out and said "I don't know why you're
not getting video. You will have to leave it 4 to 7 days to check it out and
its $100 to track it down." I said it worked just fine with the old PSU. I
asked him if perhaps the PSU was defective and he said "no, I can see the fans
spinning." Ok, I'm certainly no expert, but it seems to me, even if the fans
are working, there can be something else wrong with the PSU. I don't know if
you remember, but this PSU was one of their "open box" items and I think it was
defective and someone had returned it. So, anyway, I ask to speak to the
manager and she was really nice. She let me trade the old CompUSA
who-knows-what-brand PSU for the Antec and I only had to pay a $10 difference.
So now I'm home, not looking forward to installing the Antec, but at least I
now have a decent brand. I'm hoping that the CompUSA one was in fact
defective. Oh, and the guy told me I did have it all hooked up right.

So hopefully I'll be back a little later with some good news, or else I'll be
screaming.

Thanks again!!!

Lauren

 

[PawsForThought]

From: kony (e-mail address removed)

I think you're right, it's not an Antec or variant of one. CompUSA
has MANY different products offered under the "FMI" name, that are so
varied that it leads me to suspect that "FMI" is just a made-up name
or perhaps a supplier, but not a manufacturer.

If his PSU is anything like a Powmax or Raidmax it ought to be
returned, those are fairly junky. One of the Raidmax PSU I have here
is brand new, doesn't have the AC outlet on it, though it's only 350W.
It'll never be used for anything, any system no matter how little
power neeed, just happened to come with a case... Maybe if I ever
needed a non-computer quick-n-dirty 12V source but that's about all.
Their 400W are "slightly" better IIRC, but not worth their spec'd
wattage or price.


Dave

Well it turns out you were right, Dave, and the CompUSA PSU WAS junk! I
installed the Antec Smart Power 400W which is one of their Solution Series, and
it's working! At first when it started up, I thought it sounded kind of loud
but then it quieted down. I wonder if that has anything to do with it being a
"smart power" where it adjusts the fan speed as needed? I'll have to listen to
it again on a cold boot. Anyway, I want to thank you for all your help, Dave.
It's so nice to finally have this thing working and I'm really glad I got a
better brand.

The PSU also has a 3 pin fan signal connector but unfortunately my case fan is
already using that connector on my motherboard.

Lauren

 

[Manny]

Mine looks like this picture at the link, with the hex shaped
studs that are flat. So hopefully this will be a decent PSU.

I hate to break the news, but I've seen many poor quality supplies
with studs and many good ones with stamped standoffs. A better
indicator of quality is the level of crowding inside, which you
can usually tell by looking through the fan and vent holes, but
multiple fans increase the crowding without increasing the
quality, and even internal prettiness doesn't guarantee quality.

I went to CompUSA with my computer and asked them to take a look at
it to make sure all was hooked up correctly. The guy checked it
out and said "I don't know why you're not getting video. You will
have to leave it 4 to 7 days to check it out and its $100 to
track it down." I said it worked just fine with the old PSU. I
asked him if perhaps the PSU was defective and he said "no, I
can see the fans spinning." Ok, I'm certainly no expert, but it
seems to me, even if the fans are working, there can be something
else wrong with the PSU.

$100 for a total incompetent to look at your computer. Hell, if
you gave me $100 I'd not only fix that supply but burn it in at
full power and give you a lifetime warranty. You made the wise
choice by trading up to the 400W Smartpower for $10, but if you
ever need an additional supply consider a 350W Fortron (more
powerful than a 400W Smartpower) from Newegg for just $36.

 

[larrymoencurly]

price.

Well it turns out you were right, Dave, and the CompUSA PSU WAS
junk! I installed the Antec Smart Power 400W which is one of
their Solution Series, and it's working! At first when it started
up, I thought it sounded kind of loud but then it quieted down.
I wonder if that has anything to do with it being a "smart power"
where it adjusts the fan speed as needed? I'll have to listen to
it again on a cold boot.

Dave is right about FMI not being the real manufacturer. CompUSA
(1-800-COMPUSA) told me that FMI is just the distributor and that the
manufacturer is Four Star, 1-800-639-3803.

The 400W Leadman-made PSUs seem to be weak, and in one test a long
time ago a couple of models couldn't boot a system that was no problem
for a 250W HEC-made Antec. Their PSUs sold as Leadman or Powmax have
the AC outlet on them, but the Raidmax and Robanton versions don't,
and it's also possible that Robanton is their budget line because I've
seen smaller heatsinks in them than in Powmaxs.

The Antec SmartPower/Solution Series PSUs definitely have thermally
controlled fans because I tried tracing out the control circuitry of
300W and 350W models to see if they also would shut down the PSU in
case of overheating (apparently they don't, and www.tomshardware.com
said that only 2 of 13 400W+ models tested had such protection). My
old 300W SmartPower doesn't start out loud, but maybe Antec made a
modification to apply full voltage during the first few seconds to
ensure that the fans would start because most need more voltage to
start spinning than to continue to spin. Also old, dirty fans may
need more voltage to start spinning, and adding a 10-cent capacitor
across the thermistor may cost Antec less than handling warranty
claims caused by fan failure.

 

[kony]

I hate to break the news, but I've seen many poor quality supplies
with studs and many good ones with stamped standoffs. A better
indicator of quality is the level of crowding inside, which you
can usually tell by looking through the fan and vent holes, but
multiple fans increase the crowding without increasing the
quality, and even internal prettiness doesn't guarantee quality.

Which good power supplies have stamped standoffs?


Dave

 

[PawsForThought]

From: (e-mail address removed) (Manny)

$100 for a total incompetent to look at your computer. Hell, if
you gave me $100 I'd not only fix that supply but burn it in at
full power and give you a lifetime warranty. You made the wise
choice by trading up to the 400W Smartpower for $10, but if you
ever need an additional supply consider a 350W Fortron (more
powerful than a 400W Smartpower) from Newegg for just $36.

Isn't that ridiculous? They wanted me to pay them $100 to tell me their PSU
was a piece of junk. Thanks for the tip about the Fortron. I'll keep it in
mind.

 

[PawsForThought]

From: (e-mail address removed) (larrymoencurly)

The Antec SmartPower/Solution Series PSUs definitely have thermally
controlled fans because I tried tracing out the control circuitry of
300W and 350W models to see if they also would shut down the PSU in
case of overheating (apparently they don't, and www.tomshardware.com
said that only 2 of 13 400W+ models tested had such protection). My
old 300W SmartPower doesn't start out loud, but maybe Antec made a
modification to apply full voltage during the first few seconds to
ensure that the fans would start because most need more voltage to
start spinning than to continue to spin. Also old, dirty fans may
need more voltage to start spinning, and adding a 10-cent capacitor
across the thermistor may cost Antec less than handling warranty
claims caused by fan failure.

Booting up this morning, I listened to the fan again and it's really quiet. So
I think it was my overactive imagination, and probably the fact that my head
was right next to the back of the computer. So with that being said, hopefully
I won't have any problems with this Antec.

 

[Phrederik]

I hate to break the news, but I've seen many poor quality supplies

with studs and many good ones with stamped standoffs. A better
indicator of quality is the level of crowding inside, which you
can usually tell by looking through the fan and vent holes, but
multiple fans increase the crowding without increasing the
quality, and even internal prettiness doesn't guarantee quality.

Best way I've found to judge a power supply, other than the specs on the
label, is by weight. I've found that the heavier power supply is almost
always better than a lighter one with the same rating.

 

[Manny]

On 6 Oct 2003 01:14:52 -0700, (e-mail address removed) (Manny) wrote:

Which good power supplies have stamped standoffs?

The only semi-recent one I can remember is Channel Well, which
makes Antec, but I believe the Antec versions have studs. I
do remember old IBM brand supplies with stamped standoffs, the
chromed ones made by Astec and the brown ones, and Seasonics,
all for IBM XT computers.

 

[Manny]

Best way I've found to judge a power supply, other than the specs on
the label, is by weight. I've found that the heavier power supply is
almost always better than a lighter one with the same rating.

The most reliable spec is the brand name since the numeric specs
may be largely imaginary, as some of you have seen when a $20
"bargain" 500W supply underperformed a quality supply rated for
much less power. I once tested by loading the 5V and 3.3V to
about 30W and increasing the load on the 12V until it drooped
at least 5%. The bargain supply, rated for 18A @ 12V, fell off
the cliff at slightly over 12A (no damage), while the good supply,
rated for just 13A, managed almost 18A.

Weight is good for weeding out only the very worst supplies and
then only when the weight of the case (especially aluminum), cables,
and fans are excluded.

 

[kony]

The only semi-recent one I can remember is Channel Well, which
makes Antec, but I believe the Antec versions have studs. I
do remember old IBM brand supplies with stamped standoffs, the
chromed ones made by Astec and the brown ones, and Seasonics,
all for IBM XT computers.

Channel Well makes both the stamped-metal stud version and the
press-in stud version, I happen to have both here right now in the
420W size. The pressed-stud version IS equal to the Antecs, but the
stamped-metal stud version is definitely low-end, at least the one I
have here is... its another one of those power supplies I have lying
in a pile that goes unused because it doesn't compare well to even a
300W regular Antec or Sparkle.

Every stamped-stud Channel Well I've ever seen was poor junk, but
perhaps at some point they put the better PCB-module in the casing
with the pressed-in studs, but I'd consider those rare, maybe isolated
to one distribution region, because none of the pictures of Channel
Wells I've seen online had the better PCB in the stamped-stud casing
either, though I certainly haven't seen ALL the pics "out there".


Dave

 

[PawsForThought]

Got another question - What do you all think about this program:

http://vcool.occludo.net/

I installed it and my CPU temp, which used to run around 110F is now at 95F.
Is this good or bad? I don't want to use this program if it's going to harm my
computer in any way.

Thanks

 

[kony]

Got another question - What do you all think about this program:

http://vcool.occludo.net/

I installed it and my CPU temp, which used to run around 110F is now at 95F.
Is this good or bad? I don't want to use this program if it's going to harm my
computer in any way.

Thanks

When reconnecting the bus to the CPU (as the system does after every
single disconnect event "enabled" by this program, which is why it
reduces temp), there is a slight delay. This delay can cause
stuttering in time-critical applications like video capture, and may
also reduce overall system performance and benchmark scores. In the
most common PC uses the user may not notice the difference.

If it works fine for your purposes there should be no harm in using
it.


Dave

 

[PawsForThought]

From: kony (e-mail address removed)

(PawsForThought)
wrote:



When reconnecting the bus to the CPU (as the system does after every
single disconnect event "enabled" by this program, which is why it
reduces temp), there is a slight delay. This delay can cause
stuttering in time-critical applications like video capture, and may
also reduce overall system performance and benchmark scores. In the
most common PC uses the user may not notice the difference.

If it works fine for your purposes there should be no harm in using
it.


Dave

Well if it causes problems with video capture and system performance, I don't
want to use it. I was basically looking for a program that just monitors the
temperature. But I thought the cooling part would be good. I tend to be a bit
paranoid when I leave my computer on when I'm not home, that it's going to
overheat and fry. But I don't want to always being shutting it off if I'm only
going to be gone a short while. I know, probably not a realistic scenario...
So do you know of any good freeware programs that monitor the temp? I have VIA
Hardware Monitor. I don't know why, but it always reports CPU temp is lower
than the CPU hysteresis, and that the Sytem temperature is lower than the
system hysteresis temp. I have no clue what that means.

 

[kony]

Well if it causes problems with video capture and system performance, I don't
want to use it. I was basically looking for a program that just monitors the
temperature. But I thought the cooling part would be good.

The cooling benefit can be good, but the full-load temp will always be
the same. Since it seems to fulfill your needs you might try it and
stop using if it introduces any problems. I don't recall but there
may be a way to simply, temporarily disable it if the utmost
performance is needed for something.

I tend to be a bit
paranoid when I leave my computer on when I'm not home, that it's going to
overheat and fry. But I don't want to always being shutting it off if I'm only
going to be gone a short while. I know, probably not a realistic scenario...

Test the system at full-load, for a couple hours. If the system can
cope with that, it should be fine. The other thing to focus on is
parts that are dependable... for example, CPU heatsink fan and power
supply fan are name-brand dual ball bearing models. Generally a good
ball-bearing fan will last many years, and when it does near the end
of it's lifespan, it'll become noticably louder yet still functional
for weeks or more. Of course this is no guarantee, but of all the
risks in life the computer would be the least thing to worry about.

So do you know of any good freeware programs that monitor the temp? I have VIA
Hardware Monitor. I don't know why, but it always reports CPU temp is lower
than the CPU hysteresis, and that the Sytem temperature is lower than the
system hysteresis temp. I have no clue what that means.

Via hardware monitor should have an alarm temp too... that alarm temp
is the temp needed to turn on the alarm, and the hysterisis temp is
the temp at which the alarm turns back off if the temp falls. These
sometimes seem somewhat arbitrarily set, usually setting the alarm to
a value like 75C is good, with hysterisis at least 5C lower. However,
you could just set the motherboard bios to shut off the system at 75C
if temp change option is offered with that bios setting, so the
hardware monitor alarm would never come into play.

The most popular and universal monitor is motherboard monitor:
http://mbm.livewiredev.com/


Dave

 

[PawsForThought]

From: kony (e-mail address removed)

scenario...

Test the system at full-load, for a couple hours. If the system can
cope with that, it should be fine. The other thing to focus on is
parts that are dependable... for example, CPU heatsink fan and power
supply fan are name-brand dual ball bearing models. Generally a good
ball-bearing fan will last many years, and when it does near the end
of it's lifespan, it'll become noticably louder yet still functional
for weeks or more. Of course this is no guarantee, but of all the
risks in life the computer would be the least thing to worry about.

Well I've got the new Antec PSU with dual fans and I believe they are the ball
bearing kind. I also got a new Antec case fan. The CPU fan is what came with
the AMD Tbird. Do you think this would be a decent fan? It does look a bit
dirty.

The most popular and universal monitor is motherboard monitor:
http://mbm.livewiredev.com/

Thanks, Dave, I'll definitely check it out. I know this is OT, but I'm
wondering if you know of any newsgroups for home networks and also for Windows
98. I have a network at work between my computer and my boss's computer. I
had to reinstall Windows on my machine and now I can't get the network working.
Although my boss's computer can be mapped to mine, I can't map to his. It
keeps telling me he's not logged on but I know he is. Then my Windows problem
is that
I seemed to have lost my settings so that my desktop is viewed as a webpage and
that the icons are hidden when doing so. I go into Windows Explorer, then into
View and then Folder Options and then click on View My Desktop as Webpage. It
will do this but then next time I boot up, I'm back to having all the icons on
the desktop. So that's why I'm looking for these newsgroups and just wondered
if you knew of any. Thanks

 

[kony]

Well I've got the new Antec PSU with dual fans and I believe they are the ball
bearing kind. I also got a new Antec case fan. The CPU fan is what came with
the AMD Tbird. Do you think this would be a decent fan? It does look a bit
dirty.

I haven't heard of abnormally high failure rates for the stock fan,
but I have no systems using the stock fan. After AMD CPUs exceeded
around 1.2GHz I switched to using only aftermarket heatsinks wearing
low-RPM 80 mm fans... just don't like the noise of a high-RPM fan.

Thanks, Dave, I'll definitely check it out. I know this is OT, but I'm
wondering if you know of any newsgroups for home networks and also for Windows
98.

Most likely you can just do a Google groups search, these topics are
pretty well covered. You might try alt.windows98 or browse through
sites like these:
http://www.practicallynetworked.com/
http://www.helmig.com/

I have a network at work between my computer and my boss's computer. I
had to reinstall Windows on my machine and now I can't get the network working.
Although my boss's computer can be mapped to mine, I can't map to his.
It keeps telling me he's not logged on but I know he is. Then my Windows problem
is that
I seemed to have lost my settings so that my desktop is viewed as a webpage and
that the icons are hidden when doing so. I go into Windows Explorer, then into
View and then Folder Options and then click on View My Desktop as Webpage. It
will do this but then next time I boot up, I'm back to having all the icons on
the desktop. So that's why I'm looking for these newsgroups and just wondered
if you knew of any. Thanks

To keep "View as Web Page" setting you should be able to right-click
on the desktop, in the menu, Active Destop->View As Web Page. The
other method is in Display Properites on the "Web" tab. Beyond that
I'm drawing a blank, don't remember.


Dave