Quieter Power Supply

[Scott]

I've found that most of the fan noise on my Gateway E-3200
desktop comes from the Newton Power Ltd Power Supply,
Model #NPS-145PB-84A 145 Watt. I'd like to replace it with
a low-noise model. Star-Tech and CoolMax claim very low fan
noise. My motherboard is a Maverick JN440BX....450 Mhz CPU.

Any suggestions for a quieter power supply? Also, is there
any issue with fitting it to my motherboard and case? The Gateway
E-3200 is a very compact case. The power supply sits underneath
the primary hard drive mount with no room to spare.

Thanks!
Scott

 

[Scott]

As it turns out, I have another Gateway E-3200 in storage. It's
power supply fan runs quieter.

The only difference:

Newton Model #NPS-145PB-84A 145 Watt
Newton Model #NPS-145PB-84D Rev:00 145 Watt

Both show Output +5V / 13.0A

I'm thinking of swapping the two PSU's. Can I assume that they are
close enough to be swappable?

Thanks!
Scott

 

[Paul]

As it turns out, I have another Gateway E-3200 in storage. It's
power supply fan runs quieter.

The only difference:

Newton Model #NPS-145PB-84A 145 Watt
Newton Model #NPS-145PB-84D Rev:00 145 Watt

Both show Output +5V / 13.0A

I'm thinking of swapping the two PSU's. Can I assume that they are
close enough to be swappable?

Thanks!
Scott

NPS-145PB-84A (6500330)
http://support.gateway.com/s/POWER/q00330/Q00330TC.shtml

NPS-145PB-84D (6500464)
http://support.gateway.com/s/POWER/6500464/6500464tc.shtml

I would check the wiring harnesses real careful, to make
sure they are wired the same. Companies don't make two
different things (two different part numbers, more spare
parts stocking cost) for no reason. I would be suspicious.
The output ratings look to be the same. The wire bundle
comes out of one supply, in a different location than the
other.

You can search on the web for either NPS-145PB-84A or 6500330
and locate a spare. Or, if you have a friend who is gifted
at electronics (or a TV repair shop), install a replacement
fan. I do not recommend that to someone unfamiliar with
electronics, as you wouldn't know what is safe to touch.
There is at least one cap in a PSU that is charged to a
high DC voltage, and touching something wired to that, will
ruin your day. Yes, there can be a bleeder resistor on it,
but you never know if the bleeder is still functional or
not, and thus must always treat those cap(s) with respect.
(The last one I did, the fan plugged into a header, and
it was easy to replace. But a cheap design could be soldered
to the PCB inside the power supply, and then things get
dicey. You also need to know what CFM of fan to buy, and
what voltage it uses for proper operation. As they say,
"no user servicable parts" inside. If you mess around
inside the PSU, and your house burns down due to some
problem you created, imagine what the insurance company
would say. Buying a replacement supply is a whole lot
cheaper in the long run.)

Paul

 

[Scott]

NPS-145PB-84A (6500330)
http://support.gateway.com/s/POWER/q00330/Q00330TC.shtml

NPS-145PB-84D (6500464)
http://support.gateway.com/s/POWER/6500464/6500464tc.shtml

I would check the wiring harnesses real careful, to make
sure they are wired the same. Companies don't make two
different things (two different part numbers, more spare
parts stocking cost) for no reason. I would be suspicious.
The output ratings look to be the same. The wire bundle
comes out of one supply, in a different location than the
other.

You can search on the web for either NPS-145PB-84A or 6500330
and locate a spare. Or, if you have a friend who is gifted
at electronics (or a TV repair shop), install a replacement
fan. I do not recommend that to someone unfamiliar with
electronics, as you wouldn't know what is safe to touch.
There is at least one cap in a PSU that is charged to a
high DC voltage, and touching something wired to that, will
ruin your day. Yes, there can be a bleeder resistor on it,
but you never know if the bleeder is still functional or
not, and thus must always treat those cap(s) with respect.
(The last one I did, the fan plugged into a header, and
it was easy to replace. But a cheap design could be soldered
to the PCB inside the power supply, and then things get
dicey. You also need to know what CFM of fan to buy, and
what voltage it uses for proper operation. As they say,
"no user servicable parts" inside. If you mess around
inside the PSU, and your house burns down due to some
problem you created, imagine what the insurance company
would say. Buying a replacement supply is a whole lot
cheaper in the long run.)

Paul

Paul,

Wow, you're right! While the specs look the same, there are slight
physical differences. I always thoughts PSU's were pretty standardized.

Any suggesstions on what brand of "quieter" PSU to buy? Are there
issues with mounting hole positioning, etc? I've never replaced a PSU
before.

Thanks!
Scott

 

[UCLAN]

Paul,

Wow, you're right! While the specs look the same, there are slight
physical differences. I always thoughts PSU's were pretty standardized.

Any suggesstions on what brand of "quieter" PSU to buy? Are there
issues with mounting hole positioning, etc? I've never replaced a PSU
before.

The supply, as shown in
http://support.gateway.com/s/POWER/q00330/Q0033001.shtml
is quite proprietary.

 

[Paul]

The supply, as shown in
http://support.gateway.com/s/POWER/q00330/Q0033001.shtml
is quite proprietary.

Comparing the Gateway web page for the 6500330, to this
NLX power supply spec, makes it look like the electrical
pinout might be standard. But the screw holes and the
appearance of the supply itself look different, not at all
like the mechanical drawing shown here.

(There is a table with wire colors for the main power connector)
http://www.formfactors.org/developer\specs\nlxps11.pdf

When I go back and look at the 84A and the 84D, the difference
I see, is that where the cables come out on one supply is
the mirror image of the other supply. If you were to borrow
the supply from one machine, and put it in the other, then
the cable length might not be sufficient, or maybe some other
mechanical assembly gets in the way of the wires.

NLX supplies are not really mainstream any more, but when I
searched on www.altavista.com, I could find matches for
NPS-145PB-84A or 6500330.

It is interesting that this web store, offers their product
as a replacement for a 6500330 or a 6500464.

http://store.yahoo.com/logicalplus/14neposup656.html

And the same here, which means you might well be able to
use the 84D in place of the 84A:
http://www.pcpartsohio.com/gateway_detail.aspx?item_id=55&

http://www.codemicro.com/store/check_price.php?partid=907459

Run the company names through resellerratings.com to make
sure they are not a disaster to deal with. It is best if
there are enough reviews, so that there isn't any "ballot
box stuffing".

You should phone and ask these companies, whether the
supplies for sale, are "pulls" from old equipment, or
are brand new replacement parts. Since I did see replacement
Gateway motherboards available as "pulls", that means someone
has disassembled old Gateway computers for the parts. Notice
in the three listings above, there is quite a difference in
price, and the supplies are quite pricey compared to your
run-of-the-mill ATX supply.

So you have options to get a new power supply or swap from
your other Gateway.

Good luck,
Paul

 

[kony]

I've found that most of the fan noise on my Gateway E-3200
desktop comes from the Newton Power Ltd Power Supply,
Model #NPS-145PB-84A 145 Watt. I'd like to replace it with
a low-noise model. Star-Tech and CoolMax claim very low fan
noise. My motherboard is a Maverick JN440BX....450 Mhz CPU.

Any suggestions for a quieter power supply? Also, is there
any issue with fitting it to my motherboard and case? The Gateway
E-3200 is a very compact case. The power supply sits underneath
the primary hard drive mount with no room to spare.

Thanks!
Scott

If the power supply still works satisfactorily, you might
consider just replacing the fan. However, if these two
systems differ in the load put upon the supply, OR you had
only powered up the one in storage long enough to hear the
fan, the result could be that this supply is simply
lower-noise at the moment because it is not yet (or would
not due to lower load) as warm inside.

A fan swap should be relatively simple, it is unlikely that
uses anything but a standard fan size so primarily you would
need deterine the fan size, a ballpark estimate for it's
spec'd RPM (or just match replacement based on amperage) and
whether you can find a suitably plugged connector on
replacement fan, will have to graft and solder a new fan
lead onto the new fan or it's lead onto the original fan
wires (particularly if the original fan was soldered to the
circuit board instead of using connectors).

Is the fan serving as the only cooling for the entire
system? Does the CPU heatsink even have a fan or is this
"it"? You may need be careful not to choose too low a fan
speed to keep ample cooling, and it's even possible the need
is not a lower speed fan but merely that the present fan has
worn out, and same thing new might suffice or if it's a
sleeve-bearing fan, relubing it might help.

Do to the reduced size of the PSU and that it might be
cooling whole system, it is to be expected that it would be
noisier than a larger supply, all else being equal.

 

[Scott]

Comparing the Gateway web page for the 6500330, to this
NLX power supply spec, makes it look like the electrical
pinout might be standard. But the screw holes and the
appearance of the supply itself look different, not at all
like the mechanical drawing shown here.

(There is a table with wire colors for the main power connector)
http://www.formfactors.org/developer\specs\nlxps11.pdf

When I go back and look at the 84A and the 84D, the difference
I see, is that where the cables come out on one supply is
the mirror image of the other supply. If you were to borrow
the supply from one machine, and put it in the other, then
the cable length might not be sufficient, or maybe some other
mechanical assembly gets in the way of the wires.

NLX supplies are not really mainstream any more, but when I
searched on www.altavista.com, I could find matches for
NPS-145PB-84A or 6500330.

It is interesting that this web store, offers their product
as a replacement for a 6500330 or a 6500464.

http://store.yahoo.com/logicalplus/14neposup656.html

And the same here, which means you might well be able to
use the 84D in place of the 84A:
http://www.pcpartsohio.com/gateway_detail.aspx?item_id=55&

http://www.codemicro.com/store/check_price.php?partid=907459

Run the company names through resellerratings.com to make
sure they are not a disaster to deal with. It is best if
there are enough reviews, so that there isn't any "ballot
box stuffing".

You should phone and ask these companies, whether the
supplies for sale, are "pulls" from old equipment, or
are brand new replacement parts. Since I did see replacement
Gateway motherboards available as "pulls", that means someone
has disassembled old Gateway computers for the parts. Notice
in the three listings above, there is quite a difference in
price, and the supplies are quite pricey compared to your
run-of-the-mill ATX supply.

So you have options to get a new power supply or swap from
your other Gateway.

Good luck,
Paul

Paul,

Thanks for checking out my options. Yes, when a reseller says something like
"Tested & Working, 30 Day Warranty", it must be a pull...and at a premium price.

Since the specs on the 6500330 and 6500464 appear to be the same, would I be
safe (as in not burning out the motherboard) in swapping out the current one for
the quieter one from the same model Gateway computer....assuming the cables reach
and the mounting holes line up?

Thanks!
Scott

 

[Paul]

Paul,

Thanks for checking out my options. Yes, when a reseller says something
like "Tested & Working, 30 Day Warranty", it must be a pull...and at
a premium price.

Since the specs on the 6500330 and 6500464 appear to be the same,
would I be safe (as in not burning out the motherboard) in swapping
out the current one for the quieter one from the same model Gateway
computer....assuming the cables reach and the mounting holes line up?

Thanks!
Scott

Perhaps phoning Gateway, they can give you an opinion on
how compatible the two units are. Doing a visual check
doesn't guarantee anything, except that the screw holes
are in the same place.

The fact that web sites selling replacements, sell you the
same supply to replace 6500330 and 6500464, tells you they
have the same pinout. For the mechanical details, you'll
just have to use your own judgement, as to whether the
wires are long enough, or there is a problem routing the
wire bundle past some structure inside the computer. If
the label on the two units, has exactly the same output
spec, then the new supply should not be overloaded by the
computer it is being place in.

Do you have backups for the data on your hard drive ?
Before doing any major surgery, you should make a backup.
I do that before moving my boot disk, from an old computer
to a new upgrade, because you can never be too safe with
your data. Backing up the data, while the computer is still
stable, is just good insurance. Who wants to pay a data
recovery firm $1000 to get some data back ?

HTH,
Paul

 

[Scott]

If the power supply still works satisfactorily, you might
consider just replacing the fan. However, if these two
systems differ in the load put upon the supply, OR you had
only powered up the one in storage long enough to hear the
fan, the result could be that this supply is simply
lower-noise at the moment because it is not yet (or would
not due to lower load) as warm inside.

A fan swap should be relatively simple, it is unlikely that
uses anything but a standard fan size so primarily you would
need deterine the fan size, a ballpark estimate for it's
spec'd RPM (or just match replacement based on amperage) and
whether you can find a suitably plugged connector on
replacement fan, will have to graft and solder a new fan
lead onto the new fan or it's lead onto the original fan
wires (particularly if the original fan was soldered to the
circuit board instead of using connectors).

Is the fan serving as the only cooling for the entire
system? Does the CPU heatsink even have a fan or is this
"it"? You may need be careful not to choose too low a fan
speed to keep ample cooling, and it's even possible the need
is not a lower speed fan but merely that the present fan has
worn out, and same thing new might suffice or if it's a
sleeve-bearing fan, relubing it might help.

Do to the reduced size of the PSU and that it might be
cooling whole system, it is to be expected that it would be
noisier than a larger supply, all else being equal.

kony,

How about if I just swap the fans between the two units? The CPU
has no fan, and the only other fan is a simple case inlet fan.

Scott

 

[Scott]

Perhaps phoning Gateway, they can give you an opinion on
how compatible the two units are. Doing a visual check
doesn't guarantee anything, except that the screw holes
are in the same place.

The fact that web sites selling replacements, sell you the
same supply to replace 6500330 and 6500464, tells you they
have the same pinout. For the mechanical details, you'll
just have to use your own judgement, as to whether the
wires are long enough, or there is a problem routing the
wire bundle past some structure inside the computer. If
the label on the two units, has exactly the same output
spec, then the new supply should not be overloaded by the
computer it is being place in.

Do you have backups for the data on your hard drive ?
Before doing any major surgery, you should make a backup.
I do that before moving my boot disk, from an old computer
to a new upgrade, because you can never be too safe with
your data. Backing up the data, while the computer is still
stable, is just good insurance. Who wants to pay a data
recovery firm $1000 to get some data back ?

HTH,
Paul

Paul,

I'll have to pass on phoning Gateway. Like most manufacturers, their tech support
lines are now manned by know-nothings in India.

It sure sounds like the two power supplies are the same. The unit I want to
swap in has the wiring harness closer to the plug than the existing PSU. I'll
double-check the output specs again, and maybe try the swap.

Or, how about if I just swap the fans between the two nearly-identical units?

And, yes, I backup up my hard drive religiously.

Thanks!
Scott

 

[Paul]

Paul,

I'll have to pass on phoning Gateway. Like most manufacturers, their tech support
lines are now manned by know-nothings in India.

It sure sounds like the two power supplies are the same. The unit I want to
swap in has the wiring harness closer to the plug than the existing PSU. I'll
double-check the output specs again, and maybe try the swap.

Or, how about if I just swap the fans between the two nearly-identical units?

And, yes, I backup up my hard drive religiously.

Thanks!
Scott

If the fan is connectorized, it should be an easy swap. If the
fan is soldered, I'd put the cover back on and forget about it.
I've only been thrown across a room once by high voltage, and
that was enough (experiment with ignition coil in the basement
as a kid...). Since then I've worked with stuff up to 20KV and
never got zapped, but you can never be too careful. So if you
decide to open the supply, a connectorized fan means not having
to get too close to any of the high voltage DC on the primary
side of the PSU. Soldering would mean being exposed to all the
conductors on the solder side of the PSU's PCB.

If you want to see what is in a supply, here is the only
public schematic I know of. In this diagram C5 and C6 are
dangerous, amongst others. C5 and C6 are what gives the
power supply its "holdup" time, the ability to run for
a short period of time solely based on the energy
stored in those caps.

http://www.pavouk.comp.cz/hw/en_atxps.html

Since both of your options require pulling the supply from the
good computer, I would think either alternative is about the
same amount of work. You are likely out of warranty, so it won't
matter if you open the supply up.

If you don't work inside the computer that often, make careful
notes of where all the wires go. On some of my really old computers,
ones where there isn't good keying, I always make myself a drawing
of which side pin 1 of a cable goes on, when I take them
apart.

As to the choice of which route to take, flip a coin
Your HMO probably prefers the swap plan

Paul

 

[kony]

If the fan is connectorized, it should be an easy swap. If the
fan is soldered, I'd put the cover back on and forget about it.
I've only been thrown across a room once by high voltage, and
that was enough (experiment with ignition coil in the basement
as a kid...). Since then I've worked with stuff up to 20KV and
never got zapped, but you can never be too careful. So if you
decide to open the supply, a connectorized fan means not having
to get too close to any of the high voltage DC on the primary
side of the PSU. Soldering would mean being exposed to all the
conductors on the solder side of the PSU's PCB.

If you want to see what is in a supply, here is the only
public schematic I know of. In this diagram C5 and C6 are
dangerous, amongst others. C5 and C6 are what gives the
power supply its "holdup" time, the ability to run for
a short period of time solely based on the energy
stored in those caps.

http://www.pavouk.comp.cz/hw/en_atxps.html

That's why the power supply should be unplugged for a few
minutes beforehand. In above schematic, R2 & R3 will drain
the caps, but even if they didn't the majority would be
drained because it's an ATX supply continuing to produce
5VSB, and even without a load that is not a 100% efficient
operation, the losses still will drain it in addition to the
power for the control circuit.

Not knowing how old, how much runtime is on the other PSU
fan I'd probably be more inclined to get a new fan, but then
it may mean soldering it on, though we can't really assume
that even if both had connectors that they'd be compatible-
often it's a bi-pin with 2mm spacing but some did have .1",
2.54mm spacing- which can be bent out and forced to work but
there's risk that the connector might pop off later- I doubt
it but would still avoid that.

 

[kony]

kony,

How about if I just swap the fans between the two units? The CPU
has no fan, and the only other fan is a simple case inlet fan.

Scott

Yes it's possible, see my reply to Paul.

Briefly you'd have to determine if the other fan is new
enough, and of course compatible. I don't remember all the
details of these two units but it's possible two in the same
(even proprietary form) could have some construction
differences, especially from different manufacturers.
Gateway often used Newton and Astec, maybe a 3rd supplier I
dont' recall.