Graphics with HP LaserJet 4L

C

chuck clark

Hi,
I picked up an inexpensive HP LJ 4L for printing simple b/w graphics.
The images i print
are 300dpi or less so i thought this printer would be ideal. Whenever i
print a graphics however,
I get really poor quality prints. I have played around with the
advanced controls under the Windows
XP drivers and still get poor graphics.
http://largebuttons.com/hp/

Is there something i am doing incorrectly or can i just not print with
the quality i need?

Thanks for your help.
Chuck
 
P

puss

Hi,
I picked up an inexpensive HP LJ 4L for printing simple b/w graphics.
The images i print
are 300dpi or less so i thought this printer would be ideal. Whenever i
print a graphics however,
I get really poor quality prints. I have played around with the
advanced controls under the Windows
XP drivers and still get poor graphics.
http://largebuttons.com/hp/

Is there something i am doing incorrectly or can i just not print with
the quality i need?

Thanks for your help.
Chuck


B/W Printing is a problem with these LaserJets, I have seen the same problem
with Copiers as well.

Do you have the Extra Ram fitted..?

Can you point me to a Image so I can try it myself..
 
C

chuck clark

B/W Printing is a problem with these LaserJets, I have seen the same problem
with Copiers as well.

Do you have the Extra Ram fitted..?

Can you point me to a Image so I can try it myself..

Hi,
I only have 1 meg of ram. I will buy a second meg if i knew i could
print in a higher quality/

http://largebuttons.com/hp/
This link has the original image(left) and the image after i printed it out and scanned it(right).
The printed image is unacceptable to what i am trying to do. Can someone print out the left
image and see if they can get a better print? Thanks!!!
Chuck
 
M

magpie

Hi,
I only have 1 meg of ram. I will buy a second meg if i knew i could
print in a higher quality/

http://largebuttons.com/hp/
This link has the original image(left) and the image after i printed it out and scanned it(right).
The printed image is unacceptable to what i am trying to do. Can someone print out the left
image and see if they can get a better print? Thanks!!!
Chuck

Best guess from viewing your image is a dirty printer. If you bought
the printer used, you plrobably need to replace the transfer roller
and/or the fuser as well. Might even want to clean the lenses and
mirrors in the scanner. I'd also have the cartridge checked if at all
possible. The simple printing jobs you have will not print any better
with more memory installed. Memory has nothing whatsoever to do with
your problem here. Best regard.

Frank
 
B

Bill Frankel

Best guess from viewing your image is a dirty printer. If you bought
the printer used, you plrobably need to replace the transfer roller
and/or the fuser as well. Might even want to clean the lenses and
mirrors in the scanner. I'd also have the cartridge checked if at all
possible. The simple printing jobs you have will not print any better
with more memory installed. Memory has nothing whatsoever to do with
your problem here. Best regard.

Frank

Ok now it's my turn for a best guess. After looking at the iamges it
looks like you are using the HP LaserJet 4, 5, 6 PCL5e Driver instead
of the HP LaserJet 4, 5, 6 PostScript Driver. Try switching drivers.

Bill Frankel (www.theaschergroup.com)
 
M

magpie

Ok now it's my turn for a best guess. After looking at the iamges it
looks like you are using the HP LaserJet 4, 5, 6 PCL5e Driver instead
of the HP LaserJet 4, 5, 6 PostScript Driver. Try switching drivers.

Bill Frankel (www.theaschergroup.com)


I'll be a monkey's uncle if I don't learn something new every day in
this group. Thanks for the insight. :)

Frank
 
C

chuck clark

Hi Bill,
I hope you don't mind me contacting you directly. I seem to be
getting no where on the group. I
followed your advice and installed the PS drivers for the laserjet 4L .
Whenever I print, i just get
a mess of code and useless numbers and letters. I have since learned
that the 4L is not a PS printer,
which makes me wonder why there are PS drivers for it. Have you
succesfully printed with the
PS drivers?
Thanks for your time,
Chuck
 
G

Gordon

Hi Bill,
I hope you don't mind me contacting you directly. I seem to be
getting no where on the group. I
followed your advice and installed the PS drivers for the laserjet 4L .
Whenever I print, i just get
a mess of code and useless numbers and letters. I have since learned
that the 4L is not a PS printer,
which makes me wonder why there are PS drivers for it. Have you
succesfully printed with the
PS drivers?
Thanks for your time,
Chuck

The HP 4L has a fuser sleeve. I upgraded the OS on my work computer,
I'm using an HP3D, going from 98 to win 2000 the printer driver was a
big DOWN GRADE in graphic printing. Most likely its a poor printer
driver, in XP. For good graphic printing you have to get a newer
printer as MS will not give you any drivers that will do good graphics
on these older printers.

Gordon
 
B

Bill Frankel

Chuck:

Yeah I just found out the same thing. Well there is no good way to
put this. You can emulate PS with a PCL printer but it will never
work quite the same. That's why HP offers PS on some printers (PS is
Adobe and PCL is HP). The only thing I can think of to do is to
convert this into a GIFF, TIFF or JPEG and then print it from a non PS
program like Paint or Microsoft Image. You're going to lose a little
but not as much as you are right now. The reason why I knew that it
was a PS problem was that the image was getting through just not very
clearly. When you emulate PS you lose some of the sharpness in
graphics. All of this is kind of a guess for me (since I always get
or spec PS printers in graphic intensive situations).

If the printer is not postscript (which it's not) then you have to
send it from a program (and/or format) that does not require PS.
Sorry.


Bill Frankel (www.theaschergroup.com)
 
W

Warren Block

Bill Frankel said:
Yeah I just found out the same thing. Well there is no good way to
put this. You can emulate PS with a PCL printer but it will never
work quite the same. That's why HP offers PS on some printers (PS is
Adobe and PCL is HP). The only thing I can think of to do is to
convert this into a GIFF, TIFF or JPEG and then print it from a non PS
program like Paint or Microsoft Image. You're going to lose a little
but not as much as you are right now. The reason why I knew that it
was a PS problem was that the image was getting through just not very
clearly. When you emulate PS you lose some of the sharpness in
graphics. All of this is kind of a guess for me (since I always get
or spec PS printers in graphic intensive situations).

Please don't spread misinformation. PCL printers can print the same
quality of graphics as PostScript. The dots on the page are the same.
The difference is in how they are laid out. PCL is a relatively simple
escape code language. Most stuff that prints PCL graphics just sends a
large PCL-encoded bitmap to the printer.

PostScript is a programming language. When you print with it, the
printer actually receives a program. The printer itself runs that
program, which draws the bitmap.

PCL and PostScript are just two ways to get to the same bitmap in the
end.

The original post's quality problem is due to resolution and scaling
settings in software, not the printer language. Probably this is
happening in a print driver setting or some application setting.
 
W

Warren Block

A final followup:

I took a closer look at the images at http://largebuttons.com/hp, and
located the problem.

It is a resolution problem, and also a perception problem.

Look at the source image. Looks nice and smooth, huh? Zoom in on it.
That is a grayscale image that has been antialiased like crazy.

Laser printers don't print grayscale. They print black or white. To
simulate gray, they use halftones, or patterns of black and white dots
in various combinations.

The original poster tried to print that image at 300 DPI. The printer's
dots are 300 DPI, so it can only print a black dot or a white dot for
each pixel of the image. Dots in the image that are more than 50% black
print as black, and dots that are less than 50% black print as white.

On paper, the various gray antialiasing dots become either solid black
or solid white, so the image gets spotty and jaggy.

One cure is to print at a higher resolution, so the printer can use more
dots for halftone patterns. A problem with that is that the printer's
resolution is fixed at 300 DPI (or 600, not sure on the 4L).

I'm not certain that even a 1200 DPI laser would be able to print enough
halftones to make it look smooth. At 1200 DPI, you only have four dots
per 300-DPI dot, which is still only white, black, and four levels of
gray.

The way this is usually addressed is to not treat black and white images
as color. Scan it in black and white or "line art" mode, so there will
be no grays in the image. The image you get will not be as smooth as a
grayscale image, but the paper version will match the screen version.
 
B

Bill Frankel

Warren Block said:
Please don't spread misinformation. PCL printers can print the same
quality of graphics as PostScript. The dots on the page are the same.
The difference is in how they are laid out. PCL is a relatively simple
escape code language. Most stuff that prints PCL graphics just sends a
large PCL-encoded bitmap to the printer.

PostScript is a programming language. When you print with it, the
printer actually receives a program. The printer itself runs that
program, which draws the bitmap.

PCL and PostScript are just two ways to get to the same bitmap in the
end.

The original post's quality problem is due to resolution and scaling
settings in software, not the printer language. Probably this is
happening in a print driver setting or some application setting.

Warren:

Please do not spread misinformation here. PS and PCL do not print the
same. According to HP(who created PCL):
When would you need to use PostScript?

Generally, you would need to use PostScript in the
following scenarios:

+ To match font styles with other users in the
organization.
+ To work with Macintosh computers.
+ The work requires the rendering of graphic images in
a particular way which possibly only PostScript can provide.
+ To be compatible with a particular application or
environment (this is more common in certain UNIX (R) environments).

Notice that they say "The work requires the rendering of graphic
images in a particular way which possibly only PostScript can
provide."

Also if PCL and PS can produce the same output, then why does HP and
IMB pay (Adobe)for PS to be added on their printers when using PCL
would be free?

Lastly, About.com says:
When do I use a PS driver? When do I use a PCL driver?

Both Adobe's PS and HP's PCL drivers are page desciption languages.
This means they are both languages that describe how to print a page.
Each has its own positive and negative qualities, and they are good
for different things.

PCL drivers do most of the rendering on the local workstation and the
information is sent in essentially binary form to printer. Postscript
drivers essentially send a page description to the printers where it
is rendered. Since local workstations are generally MUCH faster than
the printers, PCL printing is much faster than postscript and because
it requires less printer memory some jobs may only print if sent using
PCL drivers. However, PCL is also a simpler language than Postscript
so it lacks many of the complex drawing and scaling functions that are
available in Postscript. Therefore, if you are using a package which
takes advantage of postscript's capabilities (e.g. most Adobe products
and some others), you may get better quality output using postscript
drivers and your complex print job may not print properly or at all
using the PCL driver.

If your file is not printing correctly using one driver, go ahead and
try the other. That's one of the first things we'll try when we visit
your station.

Some Printers in the COF have both PCL and PS drivers available. A
Postscript print queue, usually has a "-ps" appended at the end of the
queue name. Choose your driver based on the guidelines above or call
the helpdesk for a recommendation.

PCL and PS are not the same.

I thought the issue was PS vs. PCL simply because the image looks to
be at about 50 x 50 dpi not the printer rated 300 x 300. Heck, the
thing is not even printing the letters out smoothly. I did a little
research and it seems that there are two programs (probably more but
that's what I found) that might help. According to about.com:
"Programs such as GhostScript and PowerRIP provide varying degrees of
PostScript capability to non-PostScript laser and inkjet printers."
That just might be a solution.

Bill Frankel (www.theaschergroup.com)
 
W

Warren Block

Bill Frankel said:
Please do not spread misinformation here. PS and PCL do not print the
same.

Nor did I say that. Here is what I said:

"PCL printers can print the same quality of graphics as PostScript. The
dots on the page are the same."

That statement is true and accurate.
research and it seems that there are two programs (probably more but
that's what I found) that might help. According to about.com:
"Programs such as GhostScript and PowerRIP provide varying degrees of
PostScript capability to non-PostScript laser and inkjet printers."
That just might be a solution.

If the problem had anything to do with the PDL, it might.

Since the problem is perceived resolution versus actual resolution, it
will not.

The original image is a bitmap, in this case a grayscale jpeg. It can
be printed by PCL to a LaserJet 4L, or by PostScript to a PostScript
printer. The PDL is a method of getting that bitmap to the printer.

Bitmap formats are not PDL-dependent.

My previous post in this thread explains the problem the original poster
saw with printing the image. As expected, it has nothing to do with the
PDL. This can be easily proven by printing the image to a PostScript
printer at 300DPI. It comes out just as it did on the 4L through PCL.
 
B

Bill Frankel

Warren Block said:
Nor did I say that. Here is what I said:

"PCL printers can print the same quality of graphics as PostScript. The
dots on the page are the same."

That statement is true and accurate.


If the problem had anything to do with the PDL, it might.

Since the problem is perceived resolution versus actual resolution, it
will not.

The original image is a bitmap, in this case a grayscale jpeg. It can
be printed by PCL to a LaserJet 4L, or by PostScript to a PostScript
printer. The PDL is a method of getting that bitmap to the printer.

Bitmap formats are not PDL-dependent.

My previous post in this thread explains the problem the original poster
saw with printing the image. As expected, it has nothing to do with the
PDL. This can be easily proven by printing the image to a PostScript
printer at 300DPI. It comes out just as it did on the 4L through PCL.


Hmmm funny. Turned out fine on my PS Printer set to 300 dpi. But it
couldn't if you were right. Hmmm.

Bill Frankel (www.theaschergroup.com)
 
W

Warren Block

Bill Frankel said:
Hmmm funny. Turned out fine on my PS Printer set to 300 dpi. But it
couldn't if you were right. Hmmm.

It will print adequately (for certain values of adequate) if you print
it larger. The image comes out something under 1.5 inches wide if you
print it at 300 DPI. There may be antialiasing issues from the software
you are using also.
 
M

Michael J Davis

Warren Block said:
It will print adequately (for certain values of adequate) if you print
it larger. The image comes out something under 1.5 inches wide if you
print it at 300 DPI. There may be antialiasing issues from the software
you are using also.
My experiments suggested that, in spite of the HP4L's excellent memory
management, you will need a lot more memory for full A4 sheets.

Mike
[The reply-to address is valid for 30 days from this posting]
--
Michael J Davis
<><
Some newsgroup contributors appear to have confused
the meaning of "discussion" with "digression".
<><
 

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