Ge Force 6800 GT Heat!

C

Clark

I have an Nvidia GeForce 6800 GT video card. The card works fine, but
it seems to put out a lot of heat. I just replaced the original cooling
fan with a Zalman one, but the heat is still being produced. I normally
run the computer with the side panel removed to allow the heat to
escape. During game play, the fan goes into overdrive---!

I have two questions:

First, is there anything I can do with this card to lower the heat produced?

Do the newer Nvidia chipsets produce less heat, or will I have the same
type of problem with a new card?

Thanks,
Clark
 
K

kony

I have an Nvidia GeForce 6800 GT video card. The card works fine, but
it seems to put out a lot of heat.

Sure, modern gaming video cards are the rough equivalent of
a motherboard with a processor and memory onboard, and based
on how well endowed they are, will produce a proportional
level of heat.


I just replaced the original cooling
fan with a Zalman one, but the heat is still being produced.

A different heatsink doesn't decrease heat production, it
just (hopefully) removes that heat from the part in contact
with the heatsink at a higher rate, or quieter, or more
reliably in the case of OEM video card fans which are often
failure-prone.

I normally
run the computer with the side panel removed to allow the heat to
escape. During game play, the fan goes into overdrive---!

I have two questions:

First, is there anything I can do with this card to lower the heat produced?

1) Underclock it in the nVidia display properties menu.
Google for "coolbits" if you see no clock settings options,
as coolbits is a registry entry that will reveal them.

2) For further heat reduction after underclocking it, you
might find that with it underclocked it will run stabily at
a lower voltage than previously. You'd then want to get the
bios for that card, edit the bios so the formerly temporary
underclocked setting becomes permanent, then flash the
edited bios to the card. Next, reverse engineer the card's
onboard power regulation subcircuit to cause a lower
voltage. Don't drop the voltage too much, a rough guess
would be 0.1-0.2V is all you'd want to aim for.

The first option above is easy enough but will reduce gaming
performance. The second option is probably more involved
and/or risky than you had in mind. Beyond this, the more
prarctical solution is to focus on getting the heat out of
the case more effectively instead of trying to make the card
product less. There are a number of case modifications or
changes that might help depending on what case you're using
or in worst scenario you might need to replace the case with
one having better airflow.

The typical case with better airflow would have both the PSU
exhaust and a larger rear case exhaust fan, that fan not
having an overly restrictive stamped-out metal grill over
it. It would help to know what case you have, some can't
even accomdate a rear fan but those are rarer today. Some
can have their rear metal fan grill cut out.

The case front bezel should have reasonably large intake
area so the rear exhaust fans work most effectively.

If all else is impossible one of the easier ways to
significantly improve airflow around a video card is to take
off the case side panel, marking a spot adjacent to the
video card, and cutting out a large fan hole in which to
install a new fan. By large I mean ideally at least 92 to
120mm diameter, and then you'll have to decide what RPM of
fan to choose (or use a fan controller) to arrive at your
preferred noise:airflow ratio.

This side mounted fan is easier than many fan additions
because with a removable side panel you don't have any
worries of getting metal fragments into the system parts,
don't have to remove everything from the case to cut out the
hole, and no metal fragments left behind in the case after
it's cut. Further, when the fan is directly across from the
video card it certainly puts the most airflow possible on
that hot part. What air comes into the system must then
exit at the same rate, the side panel fan is an intake fan
if this wasn't clear.





Do the newer Nvidia chipsets produce less heat, or will I have the same
type of problem with a new card?


It depends on the specific card you choose. As a group,
gaming oriented video cards do produce more heat. It isn't
usually, reasonable to replace a video card only to aim for
lower heat. A large part of the reason why is that a
replacement card will cost $100, $200 or more and even if it
produces less heat, 20W difference one way or the other may
not substantially reduce your whole case temps because that
20W difference is but a small fraction of total system heat
production in situations where the card is producing a lot
of heat (in gaming, when other parts like the CPU are also
producing higher than average heat). The more reasonable
solution is usually to improve case airflow.
 
D

DaveW

A properly designed computer case with proper fan sizes and numbers will
cool a case far better than leaving the side of the case off.
 
C

Clark

kony said:
I had meant to include this link,
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/ati-vs-nv-power_3.html

and you can compare the power consumption of other video
cards (power consumption directly producing the heat) by
seeking more video card power consumption comparisons with a
web search.
I checked out the Coolbits reference and it doesn't seem to work on my
system. The driver I have says clocking changes can only be made using
nTune, which I downloaded and seems to possibly work, although the
Monitor and settings don't seem to agree. Perhaps it is true it is to
be used with the nForce chipsets on motherboards, but I will keep
playing with it.

I haven't looked at your second reference, but I will later.

I noticed some of the new cards are built with an exhaust fan
configuration, which would make sense since the fan on an AGP card
forces the hot air down in the case, away from the exhaust fans. I
bought on of the PCI exhaust fans to try, but so far it doesn't seem to
be helping much.

Thanks,
Clark
 
C

Clark

DaveW said:
A properly designed computer case with proper fan sizes and numbers will
cool a case far better than leaving the side of the case off.
Normally I would agree, except my case seems to allow the hot air from
the Video card to be trapped in the lower portion, since the exhaust
fans are up higher. I may need to add a side fan to the case to get the
air where it needs to be. Adding a PCI slot exhaust fan has not seemed
to help much.

Thanks,
Clark
 
C

Clark

darklight said:
just a trick i found out on my cpu i have the fan extracting heat instead of
blowing air onto the heat sink keeps my cpu cooler
I was looking at reversing the fan for the GPU cooler, but right now, it
blows across the memory coolers. If I were to reverse it, some
effectiveness may be lost. But it would seem pulling cooler air across
would be better than blowing hot air across.

Thanks,
Clark
 
K

kony

I was looking at reversing the fan for the GPU cooler, but right now, it
blows across the memory coolers. If I were to reverse it, some
effectiveness may be lost. But it would seem pulling cooler air across
would be better than blowing hot air across.

Thanks,
Clark


Generally the memory remains cool enough as-is if it isn't
locking up or showing artifacts in games.

You didn't ever tell us what temp your card is reporting.
"Hot" is relative, there's no doubt your card will run
hotter than some anemic non-gaming card, but is it _overly_
hot?

If you do anything with the card's fan, I suggest replacing
the whole heatsink with one having a higher reliability fan.
I don't know what's best for that specific card though,
you'll have to research that.

Otherwise, the easiest solution is as I'd mentioned
previously. Take the side panel off, use a hole saw to cut
an appropriate sized hole (or a sabre saw for a larger hole
if the appropriate hole saw is not available). Next use the
fan as a template to mark the 4 corner holes for the
mounting screws.

If the cut panel looks unpleasing, you can dress it by
getting a piece of automotive door-edge molding from an auto
parts store. For example I believe Pep Boys sells 2 pieces
of appropriate material for around $2.50, or some online
computer gear 'sites might sell something similar but
specified for fan holes.

The best fan would probably be one with less than 2500 RPM,
you don't need a high speed from an 80mm+ x 25mm thick sized
fan to have a significant effect on the video card. A fan
with 4 pin molex connector that plugs directly into a PSU
connector would be easiest. If you left the case's rear
slot-bracket cover off on the slot immediately below the
video card (and of course, that adjacent motherboard slot is
empty), that will allow for some passive flow-by air in or
out of the case past the video card.
 
K

kony

I checked out the Coolbits reference and it doesn't seem to work on my
system. The driver I have says clocking changes can only be made using
nTune, which I downloaded and seems to possibly work, although the
Monitor and settings don't seem to agree. Perhaps it is true it is to
be used with the nForce chipsets on motherboards, but I will keep
playing with it.

What driver do you have and what OS? I suggest getting a
fairly recent driver from http://www.nvidia.com



I haven't looked at your second reference, but I will later.

I noticed some of the new cards are built with an exhaust fan
configuration, which would make sense since the fan on an AGP card
forces the hot air down in the case, away from the exhaust fans. I
bought on of the PCI exhaust fans to try, but so far it doesn't seem to
be helping much.

The PCI exhaust fans move a little air, but generally tend
to make a lot of noise doing so, and unfortunately many use
fairly low quality fans.

See my other reply regarding a need to establish what temps
the card is currently seeing (ideally this temp while
running a fairly demanding 3D game or even better looping a
gaming benchmark). If the card isn't extremely hot, it
may only require making one more change (if any). If it is
extremely hot, perhaps changing the heatsink and putting in
a side panel fan.
 
K

kony

Normally I would agree, except my case seems to allow the hot air from
the Video card to be trapped in the lower portion, since the exhaust
fans are up higher.

"Sometimes", if you have a straight-through hard drive rack
and not too many drives, a front intake fan will move some
air past the video card. Also, leaving the case slot
bracket cover off on the slot immediately below the video
card will help move air past it as well, even without any
other fan changes. I would take that cover off now if you
haven't, and if you have a card in the adjacent slot, move
that card to another slot if possible.


I may need to add a side fan to the case to get the
air where it needs to be. Adding a PCI slot exhaust fan has not seemed
to help much.


The side fan is pretty much guaranteed to help, unless the
problem was that the video card heatsink wasn't properly
mounted on the GPU. That's another thing to look at, if you
have some decent thermal grease you might take the heatsink
off, clean off t he original thermal grease or material
(using a petroleum solvent on a paper towel to dissolve it
if necessary), and apply a very thin layer of grease. Some
heatsinks are a bit fiddly to remove due to their springed
screws, be careful... especially if the GPU is an open
flipchip type without a heat spreader on top.
 
C

Clark

If the monitoring utility is correct, the card is running around 135 to
145 degrees F. What normally gets my attention is the fan speed
increasing when the side panel is installed when only doing normal
stuff, no gaming. I realize the card is not at it's limits, but the fan
can be very irritating.I am running the system in a room at around 84
degrees ambient, so winter coming back will also help.

I think your suggestion of a side fan will probably be my final solution
since that would put the air exactly where it is needed. The PCI cooler
does help, but not much.

My next computer will probably have a ganged fan for the video card to
exhaust air out the back, and maybe a system fan lower in the case to help.

Thanks for your help,
Clark
 
K

kony

If the monitoring utility is correct, the card is running around 135 to
145 degrees F.

145F is about 63C (many of us are more familiar with Celsius
temps for computer hardware). That's not alarmingly hot for
this video card, especially considering that (as you noticed
and mention below), it changes fan speed when it gets
hotter, but similarly slows down the fan speed when cooler,
so in theory the card designer roughly wanted this state,
this temp range, in order to reduce noise and/or fan wear.

What normally gets my attention is the fan speed
increasing when the side panel is installed when only doing normal
stuff, no gaming. I realize the card is not at it's limits, but the fan
can be very irritating.I am running the system in a room at around 84
degrees ambient, so winter coming back will also help.

Yes 84F is part of the reason it's needing to speed up the
fan, though if it is significantly faster by just installing
the side panel, I would consider improving the case airflow
for the reasons mentioned above, to reduce noise and/or fan
wear, and also with a slower spinning fan it will tend to
build up dust slower so the cleaning interval is extended.

I think your suggestion of a side fan will probably be my final solution
since that would put the air exactly where it is needed. The PCI cooler
does help, but not much.

My next computer will probably have a ganged fan for the video card to
exhaust air out the back, and maybe a system fan lower in the case to help.

The nice thing about building your own with a plan like
this, is you can buy the case ahead of time and modify it as
you see necessary, instead of having to strip it down. It
seems as though most cases that have a side panel fan (hole)
preinstalled have it up higher to correspond to the
manufacturer's best guess as to where the CPU would be
positioned, which may or may not provide significant enough
improvement in airflow around the video card. It will tend
to cool the top (back side but it's facing upwards) of a
card some, but we don't care so much about the top side.


Generally cards set up like this produce a lot more heat,
that's why they use such an elaborate design. This design
can also be significantly louder, and the dust more time
consuming to clean out. I can't predict what your gaming
performance needs are, but personally I prefer a simplier
old-school style of heatsink where it takes up an extra
slot due to the height, but also uses a larger fan spinning
at lower RPM.

The following is an example of what I put on an overclocked
7600GT, but even o'c it still produces less heat than your
card, so to achieve best results with this kind of
configuration at lowest noise levels, a side panel fan
would still help. Unfortunately I don't know where you
might buy a heatsink like this for video cards (but I
haven't looked much for one) as I made it by sawing then
belt sanding down an old Tualatin Celeron heatsink with a
Coppermine CPU heatsink's fan on top, then drilling
appropriate holes to match those on the card for mounting
it.

http://69.36.166.207/usr_1034/video/7600gt.jpg

Actually there are some manufacturers that make low profile
heatsinks a bit like this size, for example Alpha and I know
of one at a very low price here,
http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G13955
but for your card it may not provide enough cooling, though
I have used one on an FX5700 and o'c TI4200 cards in the
past. It might be sufficient for a 6800 at higher fan
speed, but that is something we both seem to want to avoid.
 
C

Clark

I will check all your good info.

I did notice Zalman now has one with heat pipes and no fans--wonder how
it works?? VFN100 here http://www.zalmanusa.com/

I don't think I am ready for water cooling yet!! ;)

Thanks,
Clark
 
K

kony

I will check all your good info.

I did notice Zalman now has one with heat pipes and no fans--wonder how
it works?? VFN100 here http://www.zalmanusa.com/

I don't think I am ready for water cooling yet!! ;)

Thanks,
Clark


It looks like it might do a good job, though I've never been
a fan (pun intended) of fanless heatsinks for any card that
produces over roughly 15W of heat, because the lack of fan
combined with the passive cooling can make the memory,
capacitors, and 'fets on the card power supply subcircuits
all run that much hotter. I would put a fan in a side
panel to blow across it, and I'll speculate that it might be
a good combination with the side case fan being longer
lived, potentially quieter, and easier to clean the dust out
of.

However, if Newegg's price is an approximation of the
expected industry avg. low price, it's a bit pricey at $45
delivered, and seeking some web reviews would be far better
than my guess that it would perform acceptibly (that being
with a fan in side panel, unfortunately a review of a
product like this won't or can't easily forcast whether the
aforementioned discrete parts on a video card would be
shorter lived, probably only what the GPU temp is and if
it's stable during gaming.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118029&Tpk=VNF100
 
C

Clark

I appreciate all your input. I think I will go look at cases today to
see if there is anything I like. I could put a fan in this one, but a
new case isn't that much. I also enjoy disassembling the computer and
rebuilding it. Almost like getting a new one!!

Thanks,
Clark
 

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