FYI: MSDG not displaying posts; expects duplicates :-(

[Joe User]

FYI, the MS Discussion Groups web interface is not displaying postings
again. It appears to be accepting and propagating postings; they are simply
not visible using the MSDG interface. So expect to see a lot of duplicate
postings :-(.

The MSDG interface seems to have broken some time after 2:51am PST today,
Jan 9. At least, that is the last posting that I found which can be read
using the MSDG interface as well as Google Groups and the MSNews server.

I believe this is a problem with the MSDG server, not the MSNews server,
because normally it takes 30-40 min for postings through the MSNews server
to be readable using the MSDG interface, whereas it typically takes only 1-3
min for postings through the MSDG interface to be readable using the MSDG
interface. Ergo, the MSDG interface is not sending new postings first to
the MSNews server, then waiting for the MSNews server to propagate them back
or otherwise make them accessible to the MSDG server.

 

[Joe User]

What's the most effective way to report techinal problems with the MSDG
systems?

I resorted to clicking on the Feedback link. But I doubt that that goes to
the right people.

I believe MVPs have special NGs that they can use to inform MS techs
directly. I hope someone will forward the information below.

But is there any effective way that us "plebes" can report problems to MSDG
techs?


----- original message -----

 

[Peter T]

Looks like there's currently a 6-8 hour delay for NNTP posts to appear in
WebNews. This was a regular scenario a few months ago, thought it had been
fixed. I'll report it, again!

Regards,
Peter T

 

[Joe User]

Looks like there's currently a 6-8 hour delay for
NNTP posts to appear in WebNews.

That may or may not be the case. There is no way to know. In any case,
that is not exactly the problem I am alerting people to now.

The problem is exactly as I described it. It is a problem with the MSDG web
interface, not with "NNTP posts" per se, by which I assume you mean posting
through other NG servers, e.g. Google Groups and MSnews.

I know this for a fact because a message posted through the MSDG web
interface is readable from the MSnews server, but it is not visible using
the MSDG web interface. It is:

From: =?Utf-8?B?TmV3IFVzZXI=?= <New (e-mail address removed)>
Subject: sum=d11+c13 but hide result untill c13 value is entered
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 08:48:01 -0800
Message-ID: <[email protected]>

If there is a delay of 6-8 hours, it is not for "NNTP posts" per se.
Instead, it affects all postings.

I believe the internal link between the MSDG web interface servers and the
MSDG NG archive servers is broken. But of course, it could simply be a
"delay" -- perhaps an "infinite delay" ;-).

This was a regular scenario a few months ago, thought
it had been fixed.

I would say it is a recurring problem, not a "regular scenario".

The problem comes and goes. It is a reliability issue. It is not something
that is fixed once and for all, unless of course they can address the
reliability issue. Wild-ass guess: some IT person made a configuration
change that broke communication. Happens "all the time". The fix: fire
the IT person ;-).

I'll report it, again!

Good. I'm sure everyone would appreciate it. I only hope you will report
the problem as I stated it, not your interpretation of it.

 

[Peter T]

That may or may not be the case. There is no way to know.

I looked at the most recent NNTP posts visible in WebNews. Then I looked at
the next few NNTP posts in my newsreader, these are about 7 hours old and
not yet visible in WedNews. That's the basis on which I conclude there is
currently a 6-8 hour delay.

If there is a delay of 6-8 hours, it is not for "NNTP posts" per se.
Instead, it affects all postings.

AFAIK there are only two types of postings, NNTP (newservers and numerous
web mirrors which in turn post NNTP) and via the MS Webnews interface
(there are at least two of these representations of these, I assume though
they are one and the same). From what I can make out the WebNews posts
arrive both to WebNews and NNTP within a few minutes. NNTP posts get
propogated pretty quickly, but with the delay to MS-WebNews.

Good. I'm sure everyone would appreciate it. I only hope you will report
the problem as I stated it, not your interpretation of it.

I simply reported the 6-8 hour delay of NNTP posts becoming visble to
WebNews (fwiw similar problems sometimes with delays of many delays occurred
through several periods last year). But if you think I've missed something
feel free to explain.

Regards,
Peter T

 

[Joe User]

I looked at the most recent NNTP posts visible in WebNews.
Then I looked at the next few NNTP posts in my newsreader,
these are about 7 hours old and not yet visible in WedNews.
That's the basis on which I conclude there is currently a
6-8 hour delay.

Your observations may or may not be valid. Since you do not provide any
specifics, I really do not know what you are looking at, so I cannot vet
your statements.

Regardless, I believe it has nothing to do with the problem that I am
observing, unless you are talking about the same thing, but misinterpreting
your observations.

As I said before, the simplest problem statement is: messages posted using
the MSDG web interface are not readable using the MSDG web interface;
however, they are readable using other NG servers.

(For the most part, I use msnews.microsoft.com, which I call MSnews. But I
did spot-check Google Groups as well.)

I could speculate about the root cause; and I could speculate about how that
root cause explains why external postings (e.g. through the MSnews and
Google Groups servers) are also not readable using the MSDG web interface.

But I prefer to simply state the facts, and let IT personnel who are
knowledgable about the MSDG architecture figure out the root cause and
troubleshoot the problem.

Is it merely a delay of some sort? I doubt it; but we cannot know. I can
tell you now that it is much longer than the 6-8-hour delay that you say you
observed.

As of now (1:15am PST on Jan 10), almost 22 hours has elapsed since the
following message was posted at 3:20am PST on Jan 9 using the MSDG web
interface, and it is still not visible using the MSDG web interface; yet it
is readable using the MSnews and Google Groups servers.

From: =?Utf-8?B?R2FyeScncyBTdHVkZW50?=
<[email protected]>
Subject: RE: SIMPLE CONCATENATE FUNCTION
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 03:20:01 -0800
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.excel.worksheet.functions

Moreover, the following message, posted at 10:47pm PST on Jan 9 using the
MSDG web interface, is the latest one that I find on the MSnews and Google
Groups servers in the Excel NGs that I monitor. That demonstrates that the
MSDG systems are still pushing new postings to the MSnews server.

From: =?Utf-8?B?QXRvbSBPYWtz?= <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Need help creating macros
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 22:47:01 -0800
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.excel.newusers

By the way, the following message, posted at 3:05am PST on Jan 9 using the
MSDG web interface, is the last one in those Excel NGs that __is__ readable
using the MSDG web interface as well as the MSnews server and Google Groups.
So I think we can say that the problem started some time between 3:05am and
3:20am PST on Jan 9.

From: =?Utf-8?B?RHJlYW0=?= <[email protected]>
Subject: How to create a chart showing ranges of prices of different produc
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 03:06:01 -0800
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.excel.misc

I looked at the most recent NNTP posts visible in WebNews. [....]
AFAIK there are only two types of postings, NNTP (newservers
and numerous web mirrors which in turn post NNTP) and via the
MS Webnews interface

Don't confuse the communication protocol with archives and user interfaces
(applications).

First, there are NG archives. I know of three archives for MS NGs: MSnews,
MSDG, and Google Groups. MSDG and GG push new articles that they store in
their archives to MSnews, and they pull new articles from MSnews.

So I would say that those are three sources ("types") of postings. And yes,
NNTP is the protocol used for the push to and pull from the MSnews server.

Then, there are user interfaces. I know of several: Outlook Express (and
Windows Mail), Outlook (I think), the MSDG web interface, and the GG web
interface. In the UNIX/Linux world, there is also tin and rtin.

OE and some other applications communicate directly with the MSnews server
using the NNTP protocol. It is anybody's guess how the MSDG and GG web
interfaces communicate with their respective NG archives.

But my point is: there is no reason why someone cannot provide a web
interface that (actually its web server) communicates directly with the
MSnews server using the NNTP protocol.

(Indeed, I don't know if thecodecage.com maintains its own NG archive, or if
it is simply a web interface to the MSnews server.)

That is why I take exception to the bogus distinction "NNTP posts" and
postings "via a web interface". Those are not two types of postings, much
less the "only two types".


---- original message -----

 

[Peter T]

Your observations may or may not be valid. Since you do not provide any
specifics, I really do not know what you are looking at, so I cannot vet
your statements.

Look at the message headers. You are using Outlook Express, select the
message, Alt-Enter, Details (or do File / Properties / Details).

Regardless, I believe it has nothing to do with the problem that I am
observing, unless you are talking about the same thing, but
misinterpreting
your observations.

Looks like I under estimated the problem, it seems WebNews is not working at
all at the moment (no new messages in WebNews since I looked just before my
previous post here well over 12 hours ago. I haven't had any acknowledgment
to the earlier report I made (W/E I guess), but I'll add this latest
observation.

Regards,
Peter T

 

[Joe User]

Look at the message headers. You are using Outlook Express,
select the message, Alt-Enter, Details (or do File /
Properties / Details).

Y'mean like the headers I have been provided? Just exactly how d'ya thunk I
grabbed them? Klunk! Rhetorical questions.

It's up to you to justify your claims. I think I have done a thorough job
of justifying mine.

But I'm not going to waste any more time on you.


----- original message -----

 

[Peter T]

I forgot you gave headers yesterday. But you asked...

... therefore I explained, looking at the headers enables you to vet my
statements.

I tried to help you, firstly by reporting the issue that seems important to
you, then by attempting to explain what I was looking at. You reply with
rudeness just because I forgot you know about headers.

Regards,
Peter T

 

[Peter T]

Y'mean like the headers I have been provided? Just exactly how d'ya thunk
I grabbed them? Klunk! Rhetorical questions.

I took your remark at face value, but looking at your previous posts you
have not provided the headers as visible if you follow the instructions I
gave you. I withdraw my comment "I forgot you gave headers yesterday", I had
no way of knowing either way if you knew how to look at the headers.

From: "Joe User" <joeu2004>
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<#TKR#[email protected]>
<#Jtqx#[email protected]>
Subject: Re: MSDG not displaying posts; expects duplicates :-(
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 03:09:40 -0800
Lines: 49
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
format=flowed;
charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Newsgroups:
microsoft.public.excel,microsoft.public.excel.misc,microsoft.public.excel.newusers,microsoft.public.excel.programming,microsoft.public.excel.worksheet.functions
NNTP-Posting-Host: c-24-6-189-80.hsd1.ca.comcast.net 24.6.189.80
Path: TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl
Xref: TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl microsoft.public.excel.misc:891076
microsoft.public.excel.newusers:67327
microsoft.public.excel.programming:1106800
microsoft.public.excel.worksheet.functions:598456
microsoft.public.excel:187912

 

[trip_to_tokyo]

Web site real time refresh seems to have gone down again about 1200 London
time Tue Jan 12/10.