Followup on Laptop with several XP problems

[mm]

NEVER use one of these driver detecting programs. They charge you money to
download drivers that are available for free from the manufacturer's website,
and they frequently offer obsolete or completely wrong drivers- a sure way to
hose your system.

Well this is what finally happened tonight (Sunday). Don't start
your reply until reading the whole thing.

I had already left the laptop with my young friend with instructions
to backup any data to CD's, when I came home and read Mark's post that
I'm replying to.

Turns out the CD writer wasn't working either (No CD in drive) so then
I was going to have him gat some google storage space and upload it
there.

Then I read Mark's post

Go to the Averatec website and download all the drivers for your model
machine and burn them to CD.

I made the CD and went there tonight. Sunday

Install the drivers from the CD. If a "chipset"
driver is listed, install it first and reboot the computer.

There was, also called 4in1, four in one, and I ran that driver .exe
first and rebooted, and I think it didn't help. Then I ran it again,
and it detected the USB flashdrive. Hooray. And thanks.

That will
probably get the USB ports working by providing support for the "Enhanced USB
Controller".

Yes indeedy.

Install the video and audio drivers next. Reboot and go to

Installed audio, from the self-extracting file, and got a long string
of "Creation of folder Failed". In fact it didn't extract anything.
Did it again, same result.

Skipped video for now because video seemed good.

Did CPU Power, but it wanted to uninstall things. I guess because
everything was installed. Hmmmm. Maybe we should have uninstalled
and installed, but I just put that one aside for later, and then
skipped it.

Ran MousePad, or SomethingPad, Touchpad, because his cursor had been
moving when no one was touching it, usually falling down the screen.
Not enough time for me to decide if this fixed it, and my
young friend wasn't sure if it was better or not.

WLAN and LAN have been working fine so I put them aside for later and
skipped them.

I don't know what CARD is. And he probably won't ever need Modem,
plus we have no way to test it.

Device Manager and look for yellow exclamation points next to devices.
Continue to install the drivers for those devices.

Device Manager still didn't work. Googled error message for Blank
Device Manager and first hit said that the Plug and Play Service has
to be enabled. It wasn't. How did that change??

Also the error message when I tried to use Windows Help said the Help
& Support service was not working.

Ran services.msc and both services are disabled. Put both on
Automatic.

Sound now works, icon in systray for removing USB device appears, File
Manager works (and there are no yellow exclamation marks!.


The remaining questions are: What could mess up the USB so that the
chipset driver had to be reinstalled? How do such things happen?
And, any chance these services disabled themselves, or must my young
friend have done so?

Under grilling he admitted that he might have done something when he
was trying to stop something he didn't like. That could account for
the services but what about the USB driver?

He's 23, impatient, antsy, might even have DPDT or DBA or one of those
antsy syndromes. Probably not but I like the line.

So everything is fixed except maybe the CD burning. (Reading works.)
He or we should be able to fix that.

And it was all in all the chipset driver, two services. and maybe the
Touchpad driver.

Thanks a lot Mark, Daave, news, mike S, windrider, Ken, and Jim.

He had no money for another computer and had been trying to fix up a
win98 box. This is much better.

 

[Mark Adams]

Well this is what finally happened tonight (Sunday). Don't start
your reply until reading the whole thing.

I had already left the laptop with my young friend with instructions
to backup any data to CD's, when I came home and read Mark's post that
I'm replying to.

Turns out the CD writer wasn't working either (No CD in drive) so then
I was going to have him gat some google storage space and upload it
there.

Then I read Mark's post

I made the CD and went there tonight. Sunday


There was, also called 4in1, four in one, and I ran that driver .exe
first and rebooted, and I think it didn't help. Then I ran it again,
and it detected the USB flashdrive. Hooray. And thanks.


Yes indeedy.


Installed audio, from the self-extracting file, and got a long string
of "Creation of folder Failed". In fact it didn't extract anything.
Did it again, same result.

Skipped video for now because video seemed good.

Did CPU Power, but it wanted to uninstall things. I guess because
everything was installed. Hmmmm. Maybe we should have uninstalled
and installed, but I just put that one aside for later, and then
skipped it.

Ran MousePad, or SomethingPad, Touchpad, because his cursor had been
moving when no one was touching it, usually falling down the screen.
Not enough time for me to decide if this fixed it, and my
young friend wasn't sure if it was better or not.

WLAN and LAN have been working fine so I put them aside for later and
skipped them.

I don't know what CARD is. And he probably won't ever need Modem,
plus we have no way to test it.


Device Manager still didn't work. Googled error message for Blank
Device Manager and first hit said that the Plug and Play Service has
to be enabled. It wasn't. How did that change??

Also the error message when I tried to use Windows Help said the Help
& Support service was not working.

Ran services.msc and both services are disabled. Put both on
Automatic.

Sound now works, icon in systray for removing USB device appears, File
Manager works (and there are no yellow exclamation marks!.


The remaining questions are: What could mess up the USB so that the
chipset driver had to be reinstalled? How do such things happen?
And, any chance these services disabled themselves, or must my young
friend have done so?

Under grilling he admitted that he might have done something when he
was trying to stop something he didn't like. That could account for
the services but what about the USB driver?

He's 23, impatient, antsy, might even have DPDT or DBA or one of those
antsy syndromes. Probably not but I like the line.

So everything is fixed except maybe the CD burning. (Reading works.)
He or we should be able to fix that.

And it was all in all the chipset driver, two services. and maybe the
Touchpad driver.

Thanks a lot Mark, Daave, news, mike S, windrider, Ken, and Jim.

He had no money for another computer and had been trying to fix up a
win98 box. This is much better.

.

Copy the drivers from the CD to the hard drive before installing. Those that
have a self extracting file, by default usually create the extracted folder
in the same location as the parent folder. If the parent folder is on a CD
the extraction process attempts to write the new folder to the CD, which
can't be done. Copy the self extracting folders to the hard drive and perform
the extraction there.

Good to see that the USB ports are working now. Flash drives are a little
easier to use for driver installs. Still, always copy the driver installers
and zip files to the hard drive before installing.

 

[mm]

Copy the drivers from the CD to the hard drive before installing. Those that
have a self extracting file, by default usually create the extracted folder
in the same location as the parent folder.

Darn. We used s second program that had options of where to extract
it to, and one was "Here", and even that didn't make me think of where
Here was or even the possibility of what you just said. I'm so used
to dl'ing drivers to the harddrive. 5 or 10 years or more since I
unzipped from a CD. I'm going to blame it on that.

If the parent folder is on a CD
the extraction process attempts to write the new folder to the CD, which
can't be done. Copy the self extracting folders to the hard drive and perform
the extraction there.

Right. I didn't mention that we extracted it 3 times with the same
bad result and didn't come close to thinking of the reason.

Good to see that the USB ports are working now.

What's interesting is that when they WERE NOT working, the light in
the mouse and flashdrive woudl still go on, and they would still go on
when the computer WAS OFF. Now that the usb works, the lights are off
when the computer is off.

Flash drives are a little
easier to use for driver installs. Still, always copy the driver installers
and zip files to the hard drive before installing.

Okay. I'll do that.

CC: my friend.

 

[Mark Adams]

A couple of other things, inline below:



The 4 in 1 driver provides support for hardware that other drivers may need
before they will install or function properly. That's why it's important to
install the chipset drivers first.



See above.


Don't have an answer for this.

Anybody?



Maybe he uninstalled the 4 in 1 driver from Add/Remove Programs. Grill him
some more, he might still be "rare."



CD burner won't burn without burning software, but will still read. Download
CDBurnerXP for free. Google for it.

Darn. We used s second program that had options of where to extract
it to, and one was "Here", and even that didn't make me think of where
Here was or even the possibility of what you just said. I'm so used
to dl'ing drivers to the harddrive. 5 or 10 years or more since I
unzipped from a CD. I'm going to blame it on that.


Right. I didn't mention that we extracted it 3 times with the same
bad result and didn't come close to thinking of the reason.

What's interesting is that when they WERE NOT working, the light in
the mouse and flashdrive woudl still go on, and they would still go on
when the computer WAS OFF. Now that the usb works, the lights are off
when the computer is off.

Funny how drivers work, huh?

Okay. I'll do that.

CC: my friend.
.

You'll get her sorted yet. Keep plugging away.

 

[Mike S]

Don't have an answer for this.

Anybody?

http://www.theeldergeek.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=10065

To access Device Manager, use any of the following methods:

• Click Start, click Run, and then type devmgmt.msc.
• Right-click My Computer, click Manage, and then click Device Manager.
• Right-click My Computer, click Properties, click the Hardware tab, and
then click Device Manager.
• Type the following command at a command prompt: start devmgmt.msc

Do any of those work?
If not do you see any error message?
---

http://www.techsupportforum.com/mic...port/372757-plug-play-service-wont-start.html

try this command: NET START "PlugPlay"

try this approach: Click start, click run, type services.msc and click
ok. Find the service (It would help if you sorted it alphabetically
first. Click the "name" tab to do so.), right click it and click start.

Did either of those work?

Mike

 

[Mike S]

Well, since you can't think of anything, I'm going to assume he
disabled the services. And maybe other services we haven't found yet.

He's supposed to call me up and we'll compare all the Services I have
with the ones he has. I have about 93 listed on msconfig, 53 of them
running. And he has about 19 even now that he put back the two I
wrote abot. I didn't realize the difference was so much. Makes it
more likely that that's the problem.

I referred to it somewhere that he may have marked them disabled.

You have a point there! Can you really uninstall something as
important as the 4 in 1 driver?

(only 2 of the parts seem to get used on this model.)

He had something that used to work iiuc and it said, Can't find drive.

But we'll try your thing too. Some of the free and privately written
stuff has better errror messages, too. Like when Verizon wouldn't
let me forward an email I got from some party-club, Eudora gave me the
entire error message, which said it had identified my outgoing email
as spam. A couple other email programs wouldn't let me send it
either, but the error message was truncated, or wasn't even there,
only some indication from the program, but none of the text.

For sure.

Thanks.

In spite of what a previous poster said, I have had very good results
using the freeware DriverMax.
http://www.innovative-sol.com/drivermax/index.htm

Myself I would download every driver I could find for that machine, do a
factory restore from the iso on the hidden partition, install all of the
latest downloaded drivers, then see how well it worked.

Mike

 

[Mark Adams]

In spite of what a previous poster said, I have had very good results
using the freeware DriverMax.
http://www.innovative-sol.com/drivermax/index.htm

Hmmm... I'll check into this one. I've got an old box kicking around I could
try it on.

Myself I would download every driver I could find for that machine, do a
factory restore from the iso on the hidden partition, install all of the
latest downloaded drivers, then see how well it worked.

Mike
.

Might be the best solution if there is a recovery partition. Won't need to
download the drivers either. They should already be in the recovery image.

 

[Mike S]

Might be the best solution if there is a recovery partition. Won't need to
download the drivers either. They should already be in the recovery image.

Yeah I like starting clean, and every time I've done that no matter what
the OS it's always been faster and less cluttered.

And I completely agree about the drivers, they might be completely
sufficient... I read that newer drivers actually can perform better or
replace buggy versions, bit I haven't experienced that updating drivers
made any difference. If they are made more secure then that's something
I wouldn't notice (until it was hacked - heh) but other than that I
haven't ever seen a difference.

Have you ever noticed any noticeable improvement by updating drivers,
for anything, anytime, anywhere?

Mike

 

[mm]

Thanks, and thanks for your prior post. I dl'd it and it looks good.
I have only looked, haven't dl'd anything yet

Then I'll see how my young friend is doing. He sent me a list of
remaining problems but I can't remember even how many there were.

Hmmm... I'll check into this one. I've got an old box kicking around I could
try it on.


Might be the best solution if there is a recovery partition. Won't need to
download the drivers either. They should already be in the recovery image.

There's a factory restore point in this case. Is that in fact the
same as a hidden recovery partition?

(I have an old copy of partition manager somewhere, but have to find
it.)

 

[Mike S]

Thanks, and thanks for your prior post. I dl'd it and it looks good.
I have only looked, haven't dl'd anything yet

Then I'll see how my young friend is doing. He sent me a list of
remaining problems but I can't remember even how many there were.


There's a factory restore point in this case. Is that in fact the
same as a hidden recovery partition?

(I have an old copy of partition manager somewhere, but have to find
it.)

I thought that had been covered thoroughly in previous posts. If there
is a hidden partition with an intact iso image, and if this is enabled
in the BIOS, you will be able to restore the software to the condition
it was in when it was sold. So all of the drivers it requires should
exist, and all of the hardware should react correctly (if the hardware
is functioning properly). There may be newer drivers for it, but all of
the problems you initially described should go away, and Windows should
be more responsive and fully functional. Personally I would definitely
do this. And you do not need a partition manager for this, the computer
has the software to read the iso image from the hidden partition and
overwrite the C:\ drive with the files saved in that iso image. All you
need to do is press the correct key while the machine is booting up to
access this feature. Is that confusing at all? Do you understand that
you do NOT need any third party software to do the factory restore?

Mike

 

[mm]

I thought that had been covered thoroughly in previous posts. If there

Well, both things were discussed but iirc sort of separately, and I
just wanted to make sure they were the same.

is a hidden partition with an intact iso image, and if this is enabled
in the BIOS, you will be able to restore the software to the condition
it was in when it was sold.

I don't know directly. All I know is that the Phoenix restore
software calls it a Factory Restore Point, but now I'm convinced they
are the same.

So all of the drivers it requires should
exist, and all of the hardware should react correctly (if the hardware
is functioning properly). There may be newer drivers for it, but all of
the problems you initially described should go away, and Windows should
be more responsive and fully functional

It's the quicker, more responsive part that has finally attracted my
attention. He keeps complaining about this. I didn't notice it when I
had it, and a large part of what he complains about is the interenet,
but probably not all.**

. Personally I would definitely
do this. And you do not need a partition manager for this, the computer
has the software to read the iso image from the hidden partition and
overwrite the C:\ drive with the files saved in that iso image. All you
need to do is press the correct key while the machine is booting up to
access this feature. Is that confusing at all? Do you understand that
you do NOT need any third party software to do the factory restore?

Yes. Thank you.

In fact I was hoping I could put something like this on my XP
computer. The Phoenix site no longer even mentions it. The downlaod
site I found just points to the Phoenix page, but to a page that no
longer exists. Some Torrents sites have it, but I thought all of
their downloads were improper. So I would ignore them except that
Phoenix has it seems abandoned this product and won't lose anything if
I get it via torrents. Or is there another freeware or paid product
I should look for. Or should I just use ImgBurn to make a copy of my
C: partition into another partition.

Mike

**My female friend, he, and I all have verizon, and she says its
slower lately, and i've seen it slower sometimss. So maybe most of
his slowness is in verizon, but maybe not and why am I arguing with
this guy I finally realized. Let him do this, and if he's still not
happy with it, not my problem.

(I guess I'm afraid he won't backup adequately, including several
years of his mother's case reports from when they had only one
computer. She'll probably be furious if he loses all of those, even
though it is her responsibilty. He lost one backup when a harddrive
failed, and another was on a zip disk, but people here warned about
zip disks, and the zip drive was in the computer that. I think the
only good backup is paper, which will last at least until his mother
dies.)

Thanks.

 

[Mike S]

I don't know directly. All I know is that the Phoenix restore
software calls it a Factory Restore Point, but now I'm convinced they
are the same.

Factory Restore Point it is. Is your friend willing to learn how to work
on her own computer? This is a great opportunity for her: with your help
she could restore to a clean version of XP, install the s/w she wants to
use, configure windows to look and run the way she wants, she could
learn a lot. And if she ever gets a really bad virus where cleaning it
would be too much trouble, she could repeat the process herself.

It's the quicker, more responsive part that has finally attracted my
attention. He keeps complaining about this. I didn't notice it when I
had it, and a large part of what he complains about is the interenet,
but probably not all.**

Hmm, I don't know what that means or how to diagnose it. I'd want to
deal with a specific problem to diagnose it. It may be that doing the
Factory Restore wouldn't affect this at all. Which browser is loading
which page, and with or without which add-ons, and how is the Verizon
service that day, can she d/l the same page w/the same browser faster at
another wireless location that uses a different ISP, etc.? I would
consider starting a new thread for this if you decide to pursue it,
since this one is getting quite long.

In fact I was hoping I could put something like this on my XP
computer. The Phoenix site no longer even mentions it. The downlaod
site I found just points to the Phoenix page, but to a page that no
longer exists. Some Torrents sites have it, but I thought all of
their downloads were improper. So I would ignore them except that
Phoenix has it seems abandoned this product and won't lose anything if
I get it via torrents. Or is there another freeware or paid product
I should look for. Or should I just use ImgBurn to make a copy of my
C: partition into another partition.

I would consider starting a new thread for this one too. There are
different approaches you can use with freeware programs.

**My female friend, he, and I all have verizon, and she says its
slower lately, and i've seen it slower sometimss. So maybe most of
his slowness is in verizon, but maybe not and why am I arguing with
this guy I finally realized. Let him do this, and if he's still not
happy with it, not my problem.

(I guess I'm afraid he won't backup adequately, including several
years of his mother's case reports from when they had only one
computer. She'll probably be furious if he loses all of those, even
though it is her responsibilty. He lost one backup when a harddrive
failed, and another was on a zip disk, but people here warned about
zip disks, and the zip drive was in the computer that. I think the
only good backup is paper, which will last at least until his mother
dies.)

Apologoies for calling her a him. I'd consider suggesting that she
bring the computer to her mother, explain that she's going to wipe ALL
of the data, and that the mother should remove all of her files before
giving the computer back. Myself I would burn the files to CD, and copy
them to another hdd or two zipped (IZARC is a great freeware program for
this). Problem solved. No need to add a layer of people problems to the
technical problems. And yes you've helped her quite a lot already.

Best Regards,
Mike

 

[mm]

Factory Restore Point it is. Is your friend willing to learn how to work
on her own computer?

He had been, but all of a sudden he's been busy. I don't like to ask
prying questions.

For now I'm the driving force, I guess, because I want to see how this
turns out.

This is a great opportunity for her: with your help
she could restore to a clean version of XP, install the s/w she wants to
use, configure windows to look and run the way she wants, she could
learn a lot. And if she ever gets a really bad virus where cleaning it
would be too much trouble, she could repeat the process herself.
Exactly.


Hmm, I don't know what that means or how to diagnose it. I'd want to
deal with a specific problem to diagnose it. It may be that doing the

Of course.

Factory Restore wouldn't affect this at all. Which browser is loading
which page, and with or without which add-ons, and how is the Verizon
service that day, can she d/l the same page w/the same browser faster at
another wireless location that uses a different ISP, etc.? I would

Alternatively, I could take it to my house and compare my computer
with his, using the same ISP. But he also says there are non-browser
slownesses. I didn't follow him or forget which they are.

He wanted to restore, but for the sake of learning something, I wanted
to at least attempt to do it the other way. And I have learned
things.

consider starting a new thread for this if you decide to pursue it,
since this one is getting quite long.


I would consider starting a new thread for this one too. There are
different approaches you can use with freeware programs.

Okay, when I have time, a new thread.

Apologoies for calling her a him.

He is a he. The female friend is a third person altogether, whose
only connection is that she says Verizon is slow lately.

I do a little bit for her but not much, and most of it is over the
phone, helping her do it herself. She used to have a boyfriend who
just did things for her and never said what he was doing. She likes
my style better. (She took a course at a high school or junior
college years ago, and it seems to have given her a good start. Plus
she's pretty smart. OTOH, it's hard to get her to look at all the
options something has, so years later, I can still make her happy by
telling her about some feature that she could have found herself years
ago. But we're just friends. We tried dating and it doesn't work.)

I'd consider suggesting that she
bring the computer to her mother, explain that she's going to wipe ALL
of the data, and that the mother should remove all of her files before
giving the computer back.

It doesn't work that way at their house. Even though the mother's
files are intrinsically her responsibility, since he "inherited" the
computer that had them, she has declared the responsibilty to be his.
Like certain household chores are his. (There might be another copy
in her possession. I've forgotten but afaik, she still wants to
preserve these. She's a clinical psychologist and I think she could
conceivably still be called to explain what she did, although every
year it gets less likely. Plus I guess she might want to review what
she did for some similar patient.)

Myself I would burn the files to CD, and copy
them to another hdd or two zipped (IZARC is a great freeware program for
this). Problem solved. No need to add a layer of people problems to the
technical problems. And yes you've helped her quite a lot already.

He didn't have a CD burner, but now that the USB is working, he can
copy everything to a flashdrive, and I can burn them for them. Or he
might have one soon for his win98 computer. !

They do loads of nice things for me too. I was driving by on Sunday,
yesterday, and stopped by largely to talk to him, but instead I got a
90 minute brunch, as part of their father's day celebration. They
feed me often, and the mother makes 4-course meals.

Best Regards,
Mike

Also to you. Thanks again.

 

[Mark Adams]

He had been, but all of a sudden he's been busy. I don't like to ask
prying questions.

For now I'm the driving force, I guess, because I want to see how this
turns out.


Of course.


Alternatively, I could take it to my house and compare my computer
with his, using the same ISP. But he also says there are non-browser
slownesses. I didn't follow him or forget which they are.

He wanted to restore, but for the sake of learning something, I wanted
to at least attempt to do it the other way. And I have learned
things.


Okay, when I have time, a new thread.


He is a he. The female friend is a third person altogether, whose
only connection is that she says Verizon is slow lately.

I do a little bit for her but not much, and most of it is over the
phone, helping her do it herself. She used to have a boyfriend who
just did things for her and never said what he was doing. She likes
my style better. (She took a course at a high school or junior
college years ago, and it seems to have given her a good start. Plus
she's pretty smart. OTOH, it's hard to get her to look at all the
options something has, so years later, I can still make her happy by
telling her about some feature that she could have found herself years
ago. But we're just friends. We tried dating and it doesn't work.)


It doesn't work that way at their house. Even though the mother's
files are intrinsically her responsibility, since he "inherited" the
computer that had them, she has declared the responsibilty to be his.
Like certain household chores are his. (There might be another copy
in her possession. I've forgotten but afaik, she still wants to
preserve these. She's a clinical psychologist and I think she could
conceivably still be called to explain what she did, although every
year it gets less likely. Plus I guess she might want to review what
she did for some similar patient.)

mm- Sorry, been away for a few days. As "Mike S" said, doing the factory
restore should return the machine to factory condition, assuming there are no
hardware failures. BUT, this is most likely a destructive reinstall, and any
data on the machine WILL BE PERMANENTLY LOST. Make sure your friend backs up
ALL of his and his mother's files to external media before doing this. Don't
trust flash drives for long term storage either. They're OK for moving files
to another computer for storage on the hard drive or burning to CD or DVD,
but they have a habit of failing when you least need them to. Double check
the condition of the copied files before deleting anything, or before
performing the factory restore.

 

[mm]

mm- Sorry, been away for a few days. As "Mike S" said, doing the factory
restore should return the machine to factory condition, assuming there are no
hardware failures. BUT, this is most likely a destructive reinstall, and any
data on the machine WILL BE PERMANENTLY LOST. Make sure your friend backs up
ALL of his files to external media before doing this. Don't trust
flash drives for long term storage either. They're OK for moving files
to another computer for storage on the hard drive or burning to CD or DVD,
but they have a habit of failing when you least need them to. Double check
the condition of the copied files before deleting anything, or before
performing the factory restore.

Okay. I'll baear all that in mind, and I'm sending him a copy.

I did mean that the flashdrive would be used to move the data
somewhere else, not permanent storage.

 

[Mark Adams]

Okay. I'll baear all that in mind, and I'm sending him a copy.

Great. Post back with his results.

 

[mm]

Great. Post back with his results.

It will be a while. He's either busy with something or he's lost
interest. He's using a win98 computer which he likes because it is so
fast. That's why I gave in and decided solving his speed problem was
most very important, even though I didn't experience too much of it.

I'll start a new thread. Is it bad form to put your name, or Mike
S's, in the subject line?

 

[Mark Adams]

It will be a while. He's either busy with something or he's lost
interest. He's using a win98 computer which he likes because it is so
fast. That's why I gave in and decided solving his speed problem was
most very important, even though I didn't experience too much of it.

I'll start a new thread. Is it bad form to put your name, or Mike
S's, in the subject line?

I don't mind if you use my name, I'll watch for it. I am interested to hear
the final resolution. Thanks.

 

[Mike S]

I'll start a new thread. Is it bad form to put your name, or Mike

I don't mind if you use my name, I'll watch for it. I am interested to hear
the final resolution. Thanks.

Agreed, it's been a good story, I'd like to hear the last chapter too.

 

[mm]

Agreed, it's been a good story, I'd like to hear the last chapter too.

It could be weeks or months it seems. I'm not in control.

But I will get back to you.