File system error

[Guest]

A WinXP HE box, riddled with malware, keeps restarting.

I’ve run McAfee CLAV to clean out the malware, defrag to defrag the badly
fragmented files (which occupy 30/40GB), and chkdsk (/f from a reboot) to
check for and fix any file errors.

Then to isolate whether the constant rebooting (once every 1 to 15 minutes)
was to do with Windows or hardware, I ran the SeaTools Caldera DOS diagnostic
utility put out by Seagate. The utility ran happily for half an hour or more
with no rebooting, and it found no hardware errors, including no errors on
the surface of the drive. However it reported critical file system errors.

Questions:

1. Can anyone who has used SeaTools, confirm that the utility is accurate?
2. Should I believe SeaTools, which reports critical errors, or chkdsk,
which either missed the errors or failed to fix them?
3. If SeaTools is not lying, how do I fix the errors, without reformatting
and losing 30GB of data?

Thanks in advance.

 

[David Vair]

Try the online scan at www.antivirus.com Have it scan for viruses and malware. The rebooting sounds
like the sasser virus.

 

[Guest]

Thanks for that David,, and I may well try your suggestion if McAfee CLAV
fails to knock all the infections on the head.

However, my questions to this forum related to the file system errors
reported by SeaTools. I’d be pleased to hear from anyone who has any answers
to these questions.

 

[Bill Blanton]

What were the errors? NTFS?

There was similar problem posted in here a couple of weeks ago.
Seatools showed an error after an NTFS format, and massive file copy to
restore the volume. Chkdsk showed nothing wrong.

Does Seagate have access to the Microsoft NTFS documentation, or do they
use a hacked version? Dunno...

 

[Guest]

SeaTools certainly recognises NTFS sectors and yes, the file system error was
reported on the main NTFS sector of the HD.

As a leading HD maker I imagine Seagate work with MS NTFS code.

 

[Bill Blanton]

I wasn't implying that it didn't recognize or check the file system.

There are plenty of tools that work directly with NTFS that don't have access
to the "official" Microsoft documentation on the structure. Whether or not Seagate
has access to the documentatiion or not is speculation. I wasn't aware that MS
made that information available to anybody.

Not knowing the exact error reported, it's hard to comment. Have you asked
Seagate about the error?

 

[Guest]

I apologise for the slow response. I’ve been away from the desk.

The exact wording of the relevant section of the SeaTools report is:

Quote

SeaTools Desktop v3.00.07
Copyright (c) 2004 Kroll Ontrack Inc.

8/14/2006 @ 2:51 PM

The following information has been generated by SeaTools Desktop. Use
this information to help you recognize and resolve potential data access
problems.

File Structure Test Result:

Partition 1 (NTFS (39.9 GB) Shenton) Result: Failed with critical
Errors

NOTE: Any report of possible errors in the file system tests are for
informational purposes only. We suggest you should consider testing with
the official file system diagnostic utilities for your operating system.
Seagate is not able to assist with troubleshooting or reviewing
file system test results.

Unquote

This clearly throws the onus back on chkdsk to fix it. But I’ve run chkdsk
already, and either it hasn’t fixed the problem, or there isn’t a problem.

I haven’t contacted Seagate because I suspect they’ll only repeat what the
report says: that is, go back to your file system vendor. And that is why I
am posting the question in a Microsoft forum.

 

[Malke]

I apologise for the slow response. I’ve been away from the desk.

The exact wording of the relevant section of the SeaTools report is:

Quote

SeaTools Desktop v3.00.07
Copyright (c) 2004 Kroll Ontrack Inc.

8/14/2006 @ 2:51 PM

The following information has been generated by SeaTools Desktop. Use
this information to help you recognize and resolve potential data access
problems.

File Structure Test Result:

Partition 1 (NTFS (39.9 GB) Shenton) Result: Failed with critical
Errors

NOTE: Any report of possible errors in the file system tests are for
informational purposes only. We suggest you should consider testing
with the official file system diagnostic utilities for your operating
system. Seagate is not able to assist with troubleshooting or
reviewing file system test results.

Unquote

This clearly throws the onus back on chkdsk to fix it. But I’ve run
chkdsk already, and either it hasn’t fixed the problem, or there isn’t a
problem.

I haven’t contacted Seagate because I suspect they’ll only repeat what the
report says: that is, go back to your file system vendor. And that is why
I am posting the question in a Microsoft forum.

If Chkdsk can't fix the file system errors, back up your data and do a clean
install.

Malke

 

[Guest]

While I thank you for your reply, I find the tone extraordinarily flippant.
I can only assume that elephant computers provide their services free of
charge. The computer in question here is worth about USD200. The owners
can’t afford to buy a new one. They have neither the equipment nor the
expertise to back up their 30GB of data, reformat the drive and reinstall
Windows and all their programs. Nor can they afford to pay a technician to
spend a day or so to do it for them.

So what does a Microsoft MVP recommend they do?

I thought the old reformat and reinstall solution for everything went out
with Windows 95. I guess I was over optimistic. Windows hasn’t improved in
10 years. It’s still the same old muddle it’s always been.

 

[Malke]

While I thank you for your reply, I find the tone extraordinarily
flippant. I can only assume that elephant computers provide their services
free of
charge. The computer in question here is worth about USD200. The owners
can’t afford to buy a new one. They have neither the equipment nor the
expertise to back up their 30GB of data, reformat the drive and reinstall
Windows and all their programs. Nor can they afford to pay a technician
to spend a day or so to do it for them.

The reply was not meant to be "flippant". It was a direct and practical
answer. I'm so sorry that you took it wrong. If your feelings were hurt, I
apologize even though I didn't mean to offend you. Naturally, I'm sure you
will now apologize to me for the gratuitous insult to me and my company.

I'm sorry that the practical answer doesn't fit in with your friends'
situation but I stand by my answer. I believe I've previously given you the
ways in which the data can be retrieved, but if you and/or your friends
don't have the expertise (or patience to learn how) to do this, I can't
help that. In case I'm misremembering all the details of this thread, here
is how to recover data using Knoppix:

An easy way to retrieve Windows files is to boot with Knoppix, a Linux
distro on a live cd. You will need a computer with two cd drives, one of
which is a cd/dvd-rw OR a usb thumb drive with enough capacity to hold your
data OR an external usb/firewire hard drive formatted FAT32 (not NTFS). To
get Knoppix, you need a computer with a fast Internet connection and
third-party burning software. Download the Knoppix .iso from
www.knoppix.net and create your bootable cd. Then boot with it and it will
be able to see the Windows files. If you are using the usb thumb drive or
the external hard drive, right-click on its icon (on the Desktop) to get
its properties and uncheck the box that says "Read Only". Then click on it
to open it. Note that the default mouse action in the window manager used
by Knoppix (KDE) is a single click to open instead of the traditional MS
Windows' double-click. Otherwise, use the K3b burning program to burn the
files to cd/dvd-r's.

I thought the old reformat and reinstall solution for everything went out
with Windows 95.

While XP is far more robust than Win9x/ME, it is not indestructible. No
operating system is. Sometimes the file system is too damaged to be fixed
by anything except a clean install. I believe the computer you have
described is in that state. I have no way of knowing what your friends did
to this installation, but the bottom line is that if all other methods of
fixing the file system have failed - and IIRC they have - the solution of
last resort is to back up the data and clean install Windows. I'm sure I've
given you these helpful links before, but here they are again for your
convenience:

http://michaelstevenstech.com/cleanxpinstall.html - Clean Install How-To
http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/page2.html#reinstall_Windows - What you
will need on-hand

After this is all over, have your friends learn to back up their data. It is
not difficult or expensive, and computers fail - both hardware and
software.

http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/page2.html#Backing_Up

Malke

 

[Bill Blanton]

Not much to go on, is it...As Malke basically said, if chkdsk doesn't see it,
and Seatools won't fix it, then you don't have many options. FWIW, I'm still not
convinced that Seagate's util is up to the task completely, and it may be an
incorrect diagnosis (but..).

A quick "Google groups" shows similar situations where Seatools failed the
file system and chkdsk passed it. The vagueness of the error message doesn't
give much to go on. So what prompted you to run the Seatools in the first place?

 

[Guest]

Good question.

Essentially because it is a DOS utility, which takes a long time to run.
The machine had been crashing a lot. I wanted to see if it crashed in DOS.
And it didn’t, which was good news. But then there was this pesky file
system error reported by SeaTools, and I posted a question here in order to
test opinion on the relative integrity of SeaTools versus chkdsk.

 

[Guest]

Thank you again. Your method of retrieving data from a faulty hard drive is
interesting. It is not the method I usually use, nor would I necessarily
recommend it for a machine with USB 1.1 ports, an old CD burner, and 30 GB to
save. But it is interesting, and I have filed it for future reference.

However, if you read the first post in this thread, you would realise that I
was not asking this forum for advice on how to install Windows XP, or even
how to save data from a faulty drive. I was asking for opinions on the
relative integrity, power and usefulness of chkdsk, versus third party
utilities such as the one put out by Seagate (SeaTools).

 

[Malke]

Jonno wrote:


Thank you for the graceful apology for insulting me. Oh wait, there wasn't
one.

Thank you again. Your method of retrieving data from a faulty hard drive
is
interesting. It is not the method I usually use, nor would I necessarily
recommend it for a machine with USB 1.1 ports, an old CD burner, and 30 GB
to
save. But it is interesting, and I have filed it for future reference.

In that case, I wouldn't be booting with Knoppix or some other rescue disk
either. I'd pull the drive and slave it in another machine.

However, if you read the first post in this thread, you would realise that
I was not asking this forum for advice on how to install Windows XP, or
even
how to save data from a faulty drive. I was asking for opinions on the
relative integrity, power and usefulness of chkdsk, versus third party
utilities such as the one put out by Seagate (SeaTools).

In a long and older thread that I thought was closed, it is extremely
unlikely that I would research the first post. Since you've refreshed my
memory as to your original question, here is my answer and then I'm done
with this thread:

I use Chkdsk when there are Windows file system errors. If the file system
isn't too damaged, it works well.

I use SeaTools to test Seagate drives and to test other drives where I can't
find a drive mftr.'s utility (or have the right one handy). I trust
SeaTools and other hard drive diagnostic utilities for various brands of
drives to tell me if the hard drive is physically bad. If the utility
reports that the drive is physically healthy but there are file system
errors, I take that under advisement and run Chkdsk if I haven't already.

If Chkdsk doesn't fix the file system errors and the hard drive is healthy,
I 1) try a Repair Install; 2) if the Repair Install doesn't work, I format
the drive and clean install Windows.

You will need to make your own assessment of the Windows file system based
on how the operating system behaves.

Malke

 

[Guest]

A genuine thank-you this time. That is useful feedback.

And an apology for any hard feelings caused by my initial reply to you.