File Sharing

[Boris]

I rarely move/copy files across networks, so I'm not that familiar with
file sharing 'rules'. Long ago, I used to use NetBEUI and a hub <g>.

Yesterday I needed to move about 10GB of files from one machine A (XP
Pro) to machine B (XP). I have a wireless router with SSID "codenine".
Machine A connects to codenine wirelessly, and macnine B is hardwired to
the router. Once I changed the workgroup setting on both machines to
"codenine", we could see each other. Then I set up sharing.

I thought that if on machine A, I set C:\ to share, I'd be able to see
all of the folders on machine A, from machine B. I mean ALL the folders
(and files on partition C, not just the folders/files one level down.
But that wasn't the case.

I could see certain folders, but not all. What I wanted to see was all
of the folders in Documents and Settings\My Documents, such as My Music,
My Pictures, etc, but I couldn't by just sharing C:\. I had to set
sharing on My Documents and Settings.

Microsoft tells me:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/304040

"Through the Simple File Sharing UI, you can configure both share and
NTFS file system permissions at the folder level. These permissions apply
to the folder, all the files in that folder, subfolders, and all the
files in the subfolders."

This seems to be inconsistent with what I experienced.

What am I doing wrong or misunderstanding?


Thanks.

 

[John Wunderlich]

I rarely move/copy files across networks, so I'm not that familiar
with file sharing 'rules'. Long ago, I used to use NetBEUI and a
hub <g>.

Yesterday I needed to move about 10GB of files from one machine A
(XP Pro) to machine B (XP).

What is more important here is whether "Simple File Sharing" is enabled
or disabled. Assuming machine B is XP-Home, then simple file sharing
is Enabled by policy. Since machine A is XP Pro, double-click any
folder, then Tools->Folder Options->View. Simple File Sharing will be
the last item on the list.

[...]

I thought that if on machine A, I set C:\ to share, I'd be able to
see all of the folders on machine A, from machine B. I mean ALL
the folders (and files on partition C, not just the folders/files
one level down. But that wasn't the case.

This could be a true statement *if* Simple File Sharing is Disabled on
machine A. In which case, you authenticate to the server by username
and password and then have rights on machine A as if you were that user
on that machine.

I could see certain folders, but not all. What I wanted to see
was all of the folders in Documents and Settings\My Documents,
such as My Music, My Pictures, etc, but I couldn't by just sharing
C:\. I had to set sharing on My Documents and Settings.

Microsoft tells me:
"How to configure file sharing in Windows XP"
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/304040

"Through the Simple File Sharing UI, you can configure both share
and NTFS file system permissions at the folder level. These
permissions apply to the folder, all the files in that folder,
subfolders, and all the files in the subfolders."

This seems to be inconsistent with what I experienced.

You just didn't read far enough. With Simple File Sharing Enabled,
every network-connected user authenticates as the user "Guest" on the
file serving system. The table below "Managing levels of access to
shares and to files" indicates that "Everyone (Share)" (which is what
the "Guest" user is), can only access Level 4 and Level 5
files/folders. Then it goes on to say:
"By default, files that are stored in "My Documents" are at Level 2".
So a Guest user cannot access any files or folders directly in the "My
Documents" folder. As soon as any file/folder not at level 4 or 5 is
reached, access will be denied. This also applies to the Windows
folder and Program Files folders.

Recommendation: Disable Simple File Sharing on machine A and create
identical username / password logins on both machines. Then, if you
share the C: drive on machine A, you will have access to all files
accessible by your username from machine B.

"How to disable simple file sharing and how to set permissions on a
shared folder in Windows XP"
<http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307874>


HTH,
John

 

[Boris]

I rarely move/copy files across networks, so I'm not that familiar
with file sharing 'rules'. Long ago, I used to use NetBEUI and a
hub <g>.

Yesterday I needed to move about 10GB of files from one machine A
(XP Pro) to machine B (XP).

What is more important here is whether "Simple File Sharing" is enabled
or disabled. Assuming machine B is XP-Home, then simple file sharing
is Enabled by policy. Since machine A is XP Pro, double-click any
folder, then Tools->Folder Options->View. Simple File Sharing will be
the last item on the list.

[...]

I thought that if on machine A, I set C:\ to share, I'd be able to
see all of the folders on machine A, from machine B. I mean ALL
the folders (and files on partition C, not just the folders/files
one level down. But that wasn't the case.

This could be a true statement *if* Simple File Sharing is Disabled on
machine A. In which case, you authenticate to the server by username
and password and then have rights on machine A as if you were that user
on that machine.

I could see certain folders, but not all. What I wanted to see
was all of the folders in Documents and Settings\My Documents,
such as My Music, My Pictures, etc, but I couldn't by just sharing
C:\. I had to set sharing on My Documents and Settings.

Microsoft tells me:
"How to configure file sharing in Windows XP"
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/304040

"Through the Simple File Sharing UI, you can configure both share
and NTFS file system permissions at the folder level. These
permissions apply to the folder, all the files in that folder,
subfolders, and all the files in the subfolders."

This seems to be inconsistent with what I experienced.

You just didn't read far enough. With Simple File Sharing Enabled,
every network-connected user authenticates as the user "Guest" on the
file serving system. The table below "Managing levels of access to
shares and to files" indicates that "Everyone (Share)" (which is what
the "Guest" user is), can only access Level 4 and Level 5
files/folders. Then it goes on to say:
"By default, files that are stored in "My Documents" are at Level 2".
So a Guest user cannot access any files or folders directly in the "My
Documents" folder. As soon as any file/folder not at level 4 or 5 is
reached, access will be denied. This also applies to the Windows
folder and Program Files folders.

Recommendation: Disable Simple File Sharing on machine A and create
identical username / password logins on both machines. Then, if you
share the C: drive on machine A, you will have access to all files
accessible by your username from machine B.

"How to disable simple file sharing and how to set permissions on a
shared folder in Windows XP"
<http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307874>


HTH,
John

Yes, that was very helpful. And you're right, I just didn't read far
enough, esp. re: Simple File Sharing.

Both machines have, by default I guess, have an Administrator account,
and a Guest account. I am the only user on both, and my user name on
both is "Dad". When I start up either machine, I'm never asked for a
user name or password. Once the desktop comes up on either machine, if I
click Start, I see "Dad" in the upper left side of the pop up Start menu.

On the XP Pro machine A, once the screen saver comes on, when I shake the
mouse (or hit any key) to get back to my desktop, I'm presented with the
Dad icon, and all I have to do is hit the Enter key to get back to my
desktop. On the XP Home machine B, once the screen saver comes on, when
I shake the mouse (or hit any key) to get back to my desktop, I get right
back to my desktop.

Question...What I'm saying is that I have no passwords set up. Do I need
to set up passwords to accomplish what you've laid out, or am I ok, since
each machine can see the other on the network, and all I need to do at
this point is to follow file sharing set up rules?

Thanks again.

 

[RB]

Recommendation: Disable Simple File Sharing on machine A and create

identical username / password logins on both machines. Then, if you
share the C: drive on machine A, you will have access to all files
accessible by your username from machine B.

Hmmm that is an interesting scenario. I may try and see how that works on my
confused laptop. I had recently had set logon passwords on my desktop
and laptop in an effort to gain better lan shared security. It worked great going
from my desktop to my laptop, asks for my password when I try to access a
share just like clockwork. However if I try to access the desktop on my laptop it
baulks and gives an Access Denied msg. Have not ever been able to figure
out why. Maybe I will try the same identical user/pswd thing and see.

 

[John Wunderlich]

Both machines have, by default I guess, have an Administrator
account, and a Guest account. I am the only user on both, and my
user name on both is "Dad". When I start up either machine, I'm
never asked for a user name or password. Once the desktop comes
up on either machine, if I click Start, I see "Dad" in the upper
left side of the pop up Start menu.

On the XP Pro machine A, once the screen saver comes on, when I
shake the mouse (or hit any key) to get back to my desktop, I'm
presented with the Dad icon, and all I have to do is hit the Enter
key to get back to my desktop. On the XP Home machine B, once the
screen saver comes on, when I shake the mouse (or hit any key) to
get back to my desktop, I get right back to my desktop.

Question...What I'm saying is that I have no passwords set up. Do
I need to set up passwords to accomplish what you've laid out, or
am I ok, since each machine can see the other on the network, and
all I need to do at this point is to follow file sharing set up
rules?

With Simple File Sharing disabled, authentication when connecting to
a remote server goes something like this:

If a user name exists on the remote machine that matches the
currently logged-in username on the local machine, then if the
passwords are the same you are granted access on the remote machine
as that user. If the passwords are different, then you are denied
access. If there is no username on the remote machine that matches
the local logged-in username, then a dialog is displayed requesting a
username and password that is recognized on the remote server.

Somewhere I remember reading that Administrator access is not
permitted with a blank password in a Domain environment. I'm not
sure if this applies to the at-home more common Workgroup
environment. I would guess that "Dad" accounts on both machines with
blank passwords should work. If blank passwords on both machines
work and you are OK with that, then stick with it. As an
alternative, you can assign a user password that is the same on both
machines and use "TweakUI" to set up "Autologon" with that password
on both machines if you prefer not to enter a password.

HTH,
John

 

[John Wunderlich]

I had recently had set logon passwords on my desktop
and laptop in an effort to gain better lan shared security. It
worked great going from my desktop to my laptop, asks for my
password when I try to access a share just like clockwork.

Assuming Simple File Sharing is disabled, asking for
username/password indicates that the user you are logged onto on the
desktop does not match a username on the laptop. Otherwise, it
would grant you access if your passwords matched or deny if they
didn't.

However if I try to access the desktop [machine] on [from?] my
laptop it baulks and gives an Access Denied msg. Have not ever
been able to figure out why. Maybe I will try the same identical
user/pswd thing and see.

If the same username exists on the desktop as you are logged on to on
the laptop and the passwords mismatch, then you will be immediately
denied. You can use a command-line command to specify login
credentials different from your current logged-in name/pass.
Assuming your desktop machine is named "desktopbox", then the
following command line entered on the laptop should connect you to it
using the username/password credentials on desktopbox:

net use \\desktopbox\ipc$ /user:desktopbox\username password

The easier way would be to make usernames and passwords identical on
both machines.

HTH,
John

 

[RB]

Assuming Simple File Sharing is disabled, asking for

username/password indicates that the user you are logged onto on the
desktop does not match a username on the laptop. Otherwise, it
would grant you access if your passwords matched or deny if they
didn't.

I'm not sure if you understood me, I do not get a chance to type in
passwords or usernames, as soon as I click on the sharename (where it
shows up in the tree of My Networks places) I get the access denied
msg. This is only when trying to access my Desktop from my Laptop.
The reverse scenario works flawlessly.

net use \\desktopbox\ipc$ /user:desktopbox\username password

Hmmm when I tried the above Net returned a syntax err msg. I tried
every conceivable scenario I could imagine but same result. In the help
lists it speaks of Domains in this scenario but I don't have a server / domain
but only a peer to peer workgroup.

The easier way would be to make usernames and passwords identical on
both machines.

I have to run an errand now but when I get back I will try this and get
back with you.

 

[RB]

The easier way would be to make usernames and passwords identical on

both machines.

This doesn't help same thing, Access Denied, before I am even allowed
to type anything in as soon as I click on shared name folder.

It would appear I am doomed to return to Simple File&Print sharing
(at least that did work before) and give up passwords.

 

[John Wunderlich]

I'm not sure if you understood me, I do not get a chance to type
in passwords or usernames, as soon as I click on the sharename
(where it shows up in the tree of My Networks places) I get the
access denied msg. This is only when trying to access my Desktop
from my Laptop. The reverse scenario works flawlessly.

This usually happens when the user names match on both machines but the
passwords don't. It might also happen if the password is blank.

Hmmm when I tried the above Net returned a syntax err msg.

It would be nice to get past the syntax error returned here as the
error returned is sometimes more helpful. I am assuming that there is
an administrative share "ipc$". Try substituting your share name for
ipc$. Also pay attention to slashes vs back-slashes. (There should
only be one forward slash). Strictly speaking, the password belongs
between the share and the /user.

Try the following:

net use * \\desktopbox\c password /user:desktopbox\username

to see if we can get past the syntax error.

I tried every conceivable scenario I could imagine but same
result. In the help lists it speaks of Domains in this scenario
but I don't have a server / domain but only a peer to peer
workgroup.

Authenticating is to the remote computer, not a domain. So we should
be able to replace the domain name with the computer name. You can
also try leaving the computer name out as in:

net use * \\desktopbox\c password /user:username

HTH,
John

 

[John Wunderlich]

This doesn't help same thing, Access Denied, before I am even
allowed to type anything in as soon as I click on shared name
folder.

It would appear I am doomed to return to Simple File&Print sharing
(at least that did work before) and give up passwords.

One other thing comes to mind. Perhaps no sharing access is granted.
On the machine you're trying to connect to, right-click on the folder
that you have shared and are trying to connect to from the other
machine. Then select
Properties -> Sharing (Tab) -> Permissions

Then make sure that your user name or "Everyone" appears in the top
box. Click on it and verify that some permissions have been granted in
the "Allow" column in the lower window. If not, you may need to add
permissions in this window.

HTH,
John

 

[RB]

I think maybe one thing I am not doing right.

net use * \\desktopbox\c password /user:username
what is the difference between user and username ?

In my scenario I have the following
computername which is Desktop1 and RB.Laptop
usernames (also users) which are DesktopRB and Owner.RB
workgroup RB_HOME

 

[John Wunderlich]

I think maybe one thing I am not doing right.

net use * \\desktopbox\c password /user:username
what is the difference between user and username ?

In my scenario I have the following
computername which is Desktop1 and RB.Laptop
usernames (also users) which are DesktopRB and Owner.RB
workgroup RB_HOME

"user:" is literal. "username" should be replaced with your username.
In your case, on the laptop you would type:

net use * \\Desktop1\c password /useresktop1\DesktopRB
or
net use * \\Desktop1\c password /useresktopRB

Assuming the share name on Desktop1 is "c" and "DesktopRB"'s password
on Desktop1 is "password". If you leave "password" out and the
password is non-blank, it should come back and ask for your password.

HTH,
John