external drive question

[Twayne]

message



Twayne:
All I can tell you is based upon our experience
with hundreds of PCs,
we have never been successful in booting to a
USB-connected external
HDD in the XP environment (at least in any
reliable way). And we've
worked with a large variety of systems that
ostensibly had USB boot
capability. However, a number of various
newsgroup contributors and
other commentators users have reported that they
have indeed been
successful in booting to a USBEHD containing a
potentially-bootable
XP OS. Usually their claims are couched in
phrases like "as long as
the motherboard's BIOS supports this
capability", or some such. But
as I've indicated we have never been able to
duplicate this
capability. And I can't tell you how many BIOS's
we've come across
that contain a setting that indicates a boot
from a USB device is
possible.
Having said all that, if you want to pursue the
matter further...

Take a look at this Fred Lange article where
Fred purports to have
come up with a process to achieve this
"bootability". See
http://www.informationweek.com/shared/printableArticleSrc.jhtml?articleID=177102101

Also, a poster to one of the MS XP newsgroups
claimed that he too has
come up with a methodology to do this as well.
See
http://www.ngine.de/index.jsp?pageid=4176

And here's another one...
http://www.vandomburg.net/installing-windows-xp-from-usb/

(I haven't checked the above links in some time
to determine if
they're still active but I'm sure you'll come
across - via a Google
search - a good deal of info from commentators
who provide info
purporting to achieve this USB-boot capability.)

As an aside...

Assuming a user is working with a PC that has
SATA capability, what we
recommend to achieve boot capability via an
*externally-connected*
HDD is to use a SATA external HDD that provides
SATA-to-SATA
connectivity (between the external enclosure's
SATA HDD and the PC).
Naturally the system must have SATA capability
to begin with and a
connection must be made to one of the
motherboard's SATA connectors
or through a SATA or eSATA ("e" for "external")
port on the PC, or
through a SATA adapter on the desktop PC's case.
This capability can
also (but not always) be achieved with a
laptop/notebook using an
eSATA ExpressCard device). Anna

Thanks, Anna, experience is always a good
indicator. I'm still really curious, but not
enough to actually try it unless/until I have to
replace/add one. I've stuck your post in an
e-mail box for later reference though.

Twayne

 

[Twayne]

The date and time was Friday, January 16, 2009

6:54:11 AM, and on a
whim, Twayne pounded out on the keyboard:


Everyone has an opinion I guess. Like whether a
computer should be
powered down each day or left on.

From experience, I have had well over a dozen
external USB drives from
clients fail when left plugged in constantly. I
did say to Debbie
that if the drive was designed for constant use
(network drive), then
that's different. But not the cheapy drives
with no fans.

I wouldn't risk my data on that type by leaving
them plugged in all
the time. I have quite a few external drives.
I plug them in, back
up, and unplug them. Even the little time they
run they get quite
warm.
Maybe your drives are 4,200 or 5,400 rpm drives.
Mine are all 7,200
rpm.
Kind of like issues with laptop drives that
overheat. No one says
they should be shut down, but quite a few brands
have suffered issues
with hard drives dying because of overheating.
I had one client who
went through 3 hard drives within her warranty
period and finally
gave up and purchased a new one (she left it
running all the time). She actually gave it to
me and I replaced the drive with a 7,200 rpm
drive and make sure it has enough ventilation
and I've been using it
for 3 years with no issues.

No, my drives are all 7200 rpm, including the
externals. One external is an IDE and the other a
SATA. The IDE drive is the warmer of the two, but
neither dispenses much heat and only the older IDE
has a fan.

I understand what you're saying though it does
make me "curiouser and curiouser". Maybe it's
time to upgrade the old IDE ext USB for a larger
SATA and try it out<g>. I won't be surprised if
it fails, but ... not if it works either, I guess.
Think I'll peg Gateway for a chat too and see
what kind of a line they give me. If I can
remember, that is; the ol' carbon-based memory
aint' what it used to be.

Cheers,

Twayne

 

[Debbie Graham]

Mine doesn't have a power button, that was the better version that had that.
I did have it on all night the first day I got it and it wasn't that hot, it
felt as hot as my router is.

Debbie

 

[Debbie Graham]

Here's the one I got, please check it out and LMK if you would let it run
all the time or not.
http://freeagent.seagate.com/en-us/hard-drive/desktop-hard-drive/Free-Agent.html


Debbie

 

[Terry R.]

The date and time was Friday, January 16, 2009 6:19:46 PM, and on a
whim, Debbie Graham pounded out on the keyboard:

Here's the one I got, please check it out and LMK if you would let it run
all the time or not.
http://freeagent.seagate.com/en-us/hard-drive/desktop-hard-drive/Free-Agent.html


Debbie

If it was mine, I wouldn't leave it running 24/7. I would plug it in
when it was needed, and unplug when finished.

It isn't designed as a network drive. It's touts it's design as,
"Brushed metal, Ultra stylish". I don't see anything that would lead me
to believe that unit was made to run all the time. The case is too
small, there are no fans. This is just my opinion. But the design is
exactly the same as all the other drives that I have seen fail.


--
Terry R.

***Reply Note***
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[Debbie Graham]

Thanks Terry. That's what I have been doing just shutting it down through
the safely remove hardware but I leave the power and usb plugged in. I
assume it isn't running until I reboot again or pull the usb out and plug it
in again.

Debbie

 

[Terry R.]

The date and time was Saturday, January 17, 2009 9:34:25 AM, and on a
whim, Debbie Graham pounded out on the keyboard:

Thanks Terry. That's what I have been doing just shutting it down through
the safely remove hardware but I leave the power and usb plugged in. I
assume it isn't running until I reboot again or pull the usb out and plug it
in again.

Debbie

The date and time was Friday, January 16, 2009 6:19:46 PM, and on a whim,
Debbie Graham pounded out on the keyboard:

If it was mine, I wouldn't leave it running 24/7. I would plug it in when
it was needed, and unplug when finished.

It isn't designed as a network drive. It's touts it's design as, "Brushed
metal, Ultra stylish". I don't see anything that would lead me to believe
that unit was made to run all the time. The case is too small, there are
no fans. This is just my opinion. But the design is exactly the same as
all the other drives that I have seen fail.

It may still be running. You said it didn't have a power switch, so
leaving it plugged in may keep the drive running. All mine do.

Terry R.

 

[Twayne]

Hi Debbie,

Well, truthfully, I'd have no problems using it
for 24/7 and only the occasional powerdown if your
situation merits that kind of use; IMO no problem.
The 5 year limited warranty is one thing you can
key on if you wish, although I find such things
pretty meaningless as I also view things like MTBF
etc..

In all honesty, I think it comes down to one's own
preferences based on information that's already
been presented here, both pro and con, and your
own wishese/preferences.
IMO there isn't really one camp or the other
that's 100% surely right, and both camps have
their own good points. So in the end, it boils
down to our own preferences. If it was a clearcut
issue, there would be little debate over it.

If you need it to run whenever you're using the
computer plus overnight for backups, then go ahead
and do so.
OTOH if your security paranoia (of which a
healthy amount is always good) is too high to
allow overnight/unattended operation, then don't.
It's true that a disconnected, powered down drive
is completely safe from hacking, viruses, trojans,
worms, etc., at least while It's turned off, and
it's also protected from any electrical anamolies
such as surges, brownouts, etc., while you aren't
there if it's turned off.
That's pretty basic, but I think it really is
that basic a decision. It's highly likely the
drive will outlive the life of the computer IF you
are like most people and update your machine every
2-3 years, but if you plan to keep it for 5+
years, then you might see drives beginning to go
awry at some point.

I do like the looks of that drive but I didn't
look into pricing, etc.. Seagate drives have been
around for a long, long time and aren't going away
anytime soon. As long as a vendor isn't using
seconds, or refurbbed drives, etc, then it's also
a good brand to have. There is a good installed
base of Seagate drives out there.

Happy computing, and good luck,

Twayne

 

[Twayne]

The date and time was Saturday, January 17, 2009

9:34:25 AM, and on a
whim, Debbie Graham pounded out on the keyboard:


It may still be running. You said it didn't
have a power switch, so
leaving it plugged in may keep the drive
running. All mine do.

Terry R.

Terry,

Are they Seagates as hers are?

I very much dislike it when power switches are
either missing or not easily reachable. I've
begun to buy only peripherals that have easily
reachable power swithes anymore, and the attendant
indicator to show its on or off.

Actually, when there is no power switch, I'd say
that is a pretty good indicator that the device is
meant to operate 24/7, and all Seagates have
always been fine running 24/7. Any drive is
subject to failure at any time and one failure
doesn't indicate a trend necessarily.
OTOH it could be blamed on mfr cheapness, too;
save the few cents a switch costs for labor &
parts. But it's not typical of Seagate or most of
the well known brands.

Cheers,

Twayne

 

[Terry R.]

The date and time was Saturday, January 17, 2009 3:48:52 PM, and on a
whim, Twayne pounded out on the keyboard:

Terry,

Are they Seagates as hers are?

I very much dislike it when power switches are
either missing or not easily reachable. I've
begun to buy only peripherals that have easily
reachable power swithes anymore, and the attendant
indicator to show its on or off.

Actually, when there is no power switch, I'd say
that is a pretty good indicator that the device is
meant to operate 24/7, and all Seagates have
always been fine running 24/7. Any drive is
subject to failure at any time and one failure
doesn't indicate a trend necessarily.
OTOH it could be blamed on mfr cheapness, too;
save the few cents a switch costs for labor &
parts. But it's not typical of Seagate or most of
the well known brands.

Cheers,

Twayne

Hi Twayne,

Just because there isn't a power switch doesn't mean the device was
meant to run 24/7. That would mean that Dell computers are never meant
to be turned off, because the power supplies don't have on and off
switches. Or that they are ever meant to be hard reset, because there
isn't a reset button.

You hit it on the head. It's saving money. And why would a
manufacturer warn a user to unplug the unit when not in use? Their
whole business is based on sales. If you don't replace the units, you
don't have sales. Most external drives I've seen (consumer), are cheap
IMO. No fans, no on/off switches. Most manufacturers just jumped on a
bandwagon where they saw there was money to be made. They could care
less if it lasts more than a year. You can buy higher quality drives
designed for running 24/7, but most people don't spend the extra money
for them, they buy the cheapest thing they can find.

Terry R.

 

[Terry R.]

The date and time was Saturday, January 17, 2009 3:41:57 PM, and on a
whim, Twayne pounded out on the keyboard:

Hi Debbie,

Well, truthfully, I'd have no problems using it
for 24/7 and only the occasional powerdown if your
situation merits that kind of use; IMO no problem.
The 5 year limited warranty is one thing you can
key on if you wish, although I find such things
pretty meaningless as I also view things like MTBF
etc..

In all honesty, I think it comes down to one's own
preferences based on information that's already
been presented here, both pro and con, and your
own wishese/preferences.
IMO there isn't really one camp or the other
that's 100% surely right, and both camps have
their own good points. So in the end, it boils
down to our own preferences. If it was a clearcut
issue, there would be little debate over it.

If you need it to run whenever you're using the
computer plus overnight for backups, then go ahead
and do so.
OTOH if your security paranoia (of which a
healthy amount is always good) is too high to
allow overnight/unattended operation, then don't.
It's true that a disconnected, powered down drive
is completely safe from hacking, viruses, trojans,
worms, etc., at least while It's turned off, and
it's also protected from any electrical anamolies
such as surges, brownouts, etc., while you aren't
there if it's turned off.
That's pretty basic, but I think it really is
that basic a decision. It's highly likely the
drive will outlive the life of the computer IF you
are like most people and update your machine every
2-3 years, but if you plan to keep it for 5+
years, then you might see drives beginning to go
awry at some point.

I do like the looks of that drive but I didn't
look into pricing, etc.. Seagate drives have been
around for a long, long time and aren't going away
anytime soon. As long as a vendor isn't using
seconds, or refurbbed drives, etc, then it's also
a good brand to have. There is a good installed
base of Seagate drives out there.

Happy computing, and good luck,

Twayne

And your comments are based on the drives you own. Mine were based on
experience of many client failures.

Who cares about a warranty when your hard drive fails and your backup
isn't there when you need it? Every one of the clients who owned failed
drives didn't even know the drives were no longer working until I told
them. They were plugged in and dead.

"Highly likely" isn't a reliable suggestion when you're depending on
data backup. It doesn't matter whether someone owns a computer for one
day or ten years. Drives fail, not "IF" but "WHEN". I had three IBM
Deskstars fail in my workstation in one year. Without the redundancy, I
would have been screwed.

And I have never thought much of Seagate drives...

Terry R.

 

[Lil' Dave]

I don't know too much about them but I just got one and was wondering if
you could only store files on it or actually install a program on them?
Right now I'm using it for storing my larger videos on and pictures.
Thanks

Debbie

Program installations can be "pointed at" most any partition, inclucing a
partition on an external hard drive, for installation. The critical part,
the registry entries for program installation, go to the windows partition
not on such an external hard drive. So, if you're anticipating saving your
application from an onboard hard drive crash where windows is installed, it
won't be successful. Therefore, I highly suggest you use the default
location for installing applications/programs.

Use your external hard drive for backup of your data, and at least one
backup of your windows partition installation as an image. See "imaging
software".

An external hard drive should be used for backup as stated. For data
safety, the external hard drive should be energized only when anticipating
immediate use. And, should be immediately de-energized when done using.
How well you keep this external hard drive isolated when not in use
determines the degree of data safety from external influences.

If you need additional space on the windows partition as the hard drive is
nearing full, get a bigger capacity hard drive.

 

[Debbie Graham]

thanks for all the replies and opinions. The 5 year warranty is a good
plus. I think I'll email their tech or customer service and see what they
say. I know like what Terry said, their not going to openly tell you
because they want that drive to fail so they can make sales
Debbie

 

[Terry R.]

The date and time was Sunday, January 18, 2009 4:14:11 PM, and on a
whim, Debbie Graham pounded out on the keyboard:

thanks for all the replies and opinions. The 5 year warranty is a good
plus. I think I'll email their tech or customer service and see what they
say. I know like what Terry said, their not going to openly tell you
because they want that drive to fail so they can make sales
Debbie

You're welcome Debbie,


Terry R.