Epson Photo EX & Mottling problem!

[NM]

Hi All

I hope somebody here can help with a little problem I am having.

At the moment I am trying to ICC profile a Epson Stylus Photo EX using a
X-Rite DTP41B spectrophotometer and MonacoPROFILER 4.7.2 software. PC Based!

When I print my targets using Epson photo paper all is fine however when I
use HP photo paper I get a distinct mottling problem on anything above 60%
saturation. I first noticed this problem before calibration. Hence the
motivating factor for building accurate ICC profiles.

I am concerned that the 60% and above saturation, mottling gets steadily
worse and that this will course an inaccurate ICC profile also its very
noticeable on saturated colours in my digital photos. I would expect this
problem from cheap and cheerful inkjet papers but surely not from HP Photo
Paper which is of reasonably good quality?

How can I reduce or even stop this mottling? Reduce the amount of ink
hitting the paper? Any help would be appreciated.


Many Thanks & Regards
NM

 

[Roy G]

Hi All

I hope somebody here can help with a little problem I am having.

At the moment I am trying to ICC profile a Epson Stylus Photo EX using a
X-Rite DTP41B spectrophotometer and MonacoPROFILER 4.7.2 software. PC
Based!

When I print my targets using Epson photo paper all is fine however when I
use HP photo paper I get a distinct mottling problem on anything above 60%
saturation. I first noticed this problem before calibration. Hence the
motivating factor for building accurate ICC profiles.

I am concerned that the 60% and above saturation, mottling gets steadily
worse and that this will course an inaccurate ICC profile also its very
noticeable on saturated colours in my digital photos. I would expect this
problem from cheap and cheerful inkjet papers but surely not from HP Photo
Paper which is of reasonably good quality?

How can I reduce or even stop this mottling? Reduce the amount of ink
hitting the paper? Any help would be appreciated.


Many Thanks & Regards
NM

Hi.

It should be obvious to you that the HP paper is proving incompatible with
the Ink Sets in your EX.

This has nothing to do with any so called "Quality".

It has to do with the inks that paper is designed for. Kodak paper also
won't work.

Stick to papers which get absorbed and dry without mottling.

Roy G

 

[NM]

Hi.

It should be obvious to you that the HP paper is proving incompatible with
the Ink Sets in your EX.

This has nothing to do with any so called "Quality".

It has to do with the inks that paper is designed for. Kodak paper also
won't work.

Stick to papers which get absorbed and dry without mottling.

Roy G

Hi Roy

Thanks for a very quick response. I'm interested as to why you think it
should be obvious to me?

I'm lucky enough to work for a large pre-press manufacturing company as a
network specialist. Basically I design computer networks for clients needing
a fast, efficient workflow, my work is mostly based upon the Harlequin /
Global Graphics RIPS.

Because of this job, I have built a little understanding of how the graphics
workflow operates, which of course is only a good thing. I was lucky enough
to borrow the ICC profiling kit for a few days but wont be able to speak to
the pre-press specialist until Monday (when the kit needs to be returned)

If I understand what you are saying - then my ink cartridges are not
compatible with the paper, is that right? I am using PCLINE (common, cheep
ink cartridges, in the UK) these cartridges work fine for Epson photopaper
but not HP photopaper.

Also, this problem is not only visible in my profiling patches but is
clearly visible in fine photography (taken on a Nikon Digital SLR (D70))

Surely there must be something I can do during calibration to reduce the
mottling? like reducing the amount of ink hitting the paper?

Any help would be appreciated

Many Thanks
Nikki

 

[Tony]

Hi Roy

Thanks for a very quick response. I'm interested as to why you think it
should be obvious to me?

I'm lucky enough to work for a large pre-press manufacturing company as a
network specialist. Basically I design computer networks for clients needing
a fast, efficient workflow, my work is mostly based upon the Harlequin /
Global Graphics RIPS.

Because of this job, I have built a little understanding of how the graphics
workflow operates, which of course is only a good thing. I was lucky enough
to borrow the ICC profiling kit for a few days but wont be able to speak to
the pre-press specialist until Monday (when the kit needs to be returned)

If I understand what you are saying - then my ink cartridges are not
compatible with the paper, is that right? I am using PCLINE (common, cheep
ink cartridges, in the UK) these cartridges work fine for Epson photopaper
but not HP photopaper.

Also, this problem is not only visible in my profiling patches but is
clearly visible in fine photography (taken on a Nikon Digital SLR (D70))

Surely there must be something I can do during calibration to reduce the
mottling? like reducing the amount of ink hitting the paper?

Any help would be appreciated

Many Thanks
Nikki

Nikki
The issue of compatibility between photo paper and ink is becoming increasingly
complex in my opinion.
I have had this discussion with literally hundreds of people and it is often
very hard to convince them that a particular paper will not necessarily work
with all inks, the reverse is also true. I guess I am sayiong that this issue
is far from obvious to most users, even those with imaging skills. There is one
manufacturer and formulator of compatible inks (they do not make generic inks)
and sell into more than 20 countries and they make their own paper. Their photo
paper works perfectly with Canon inks but not with their own inks (blotches and
smearing) and whilst they could easily fix this by modifying the paper they
choose not to do so for marketing reasons (they want to compete with Canon
paper) so the whole thing becomes even more confusing.
It is extremely unlikely that any adjustments to the profilies will improve the
situation markedly, experimenting with different papers is my recommendation
until you find one that suits. It would not necessarily be correct to blame
either the ink or the paper you are using.
Tony

 

[Roy G]

Hi Roy

Thanks for a very quick response. I'm interested as to why you think it
should be obvious to me?

I'm lucky enough to work for a large pre-press manufacturing company as a
network specialist. Basically I design computer networks for clients
needing a fast, efficient workflow, my work is mostly based upon the
Harlequin / Global Graphics RIPS.

Because of this job, I have built a little understanding of how the
graphics workflow operates, which of course is only a good thing. I was
lucky enough to borrow the ICC profiling kit for a few days but wont be
able to speak to the pre-press specialist until Monday (when the kit needs
to be returned)

If I understand what you are saying - then my ink cartridges are not
compatible with the paper, is that right? I am using PCLINE (common, cheep
ink cartridges, in the UK) these cartridges work fine for Epson photopaper
but not HP photopaper.

Also, this problem is not only visible in my profiling patches but is
clearly visible in fine photography (taken on a Nikon Digital SLR (D70))

Surely there must be something I can do during calibration to reduce the
mottling? like reducing the amount of ink hitting the paper?

Any help would be appreciated

Many Thanks
Nikki

Hi.

There are different kinds of paper and different kinds of ink.

Not every paper is suitable for any one ink.

If you can see a fault like mottling or bronzing or puddling, then you need
to change the paper / ink combination.

It is obvious, you can see there is a problem with HP but none with Epson.

Try another paper, like PC World's, that might work better with their inks.
I did say might.

Profiling in conjunction with an effective colour managed workflow will give
correct colour and density for your Ink / Paper combination, but you need to
get a compatible combination first.

And the profiling may need to be redone every so often, because Inks and
Papers change, and your EX must be getting rather long in the tooth by now.
They stopped making it well before 2000.

Roy G

 

[zakezuke]

Can the Epson photo EX do that? I rather thought it had a fixed drop
size. If i'm mistaken do let me know... I do have one but my experence
base on it is limited. It didn't do too badly using HP paper from my
experence using MicroWeave superX or whatever it's called.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Although some people will object to this, ink and paper do make a
system. Epson and HP use different ink formulations and distribution
patterns. HP papers are usually swellable polymer type, while most
Epson are microporous. Epson uses a cold system with piezoelectric head
components, HP, Canon and Lexmark use thermal heads that heat the ink to
propel it. Simply put, the technology is not the same.

I suggest sticking to a recommended Epson or 3rd party paper. Most HP
papers simply will not work well with Epson printers. I'm sure they
work very well with HP printers, however.

Art

 

[Arthur Entlich]

You can reduce the amount of ink in more dense areas, for sure, but you
may lose all shadow density and detail to accomplish this.

You can try taking the ink amounts down in those more dense areas, but
as you yourself noted, the paper is not designed to handle that amount
of ink. It would appear that the HP printers can use less inks, or are
simply more compatible for that paper technology.

Art

 

[Fenrir Enterprises]

Hi All

I hope somebody here can help with a little problem I am having.

At the moment I am trying to ICC profile a Epson Stylus Photo EX using a
X-Rite DTP41B spectrophotometer and MonacoPROFILER 4.7.2 software. PC Based!

When I print my targets using Epson photo paper all is fine however when I
use HP photo paper I get a distinct mottling problem on anything above 60%
saturation. I first noticed this problem before calibration. Hence the
motivating factor for building accurate ICC profiles.

I am concerned that the 60% and above saturation, mottling gets steadily
worse and that this will course an inaccurate ICC profile also its very
noticeable on saturated colours in my digital photos. I would expect this
problem from cheap and cheerful inkjet papers but surely not from HP Photo
Paper which is of reasonably good quality?

How can I reduce or even stop this mottling? Reduce the amount of ink
hitting the paper? Any help would be appreciated.


Many Thanks & Regards
NM

I have both an Epson dye (R340) and pigment (C88+) printer, and
neither of them work with any of HP's papers, even the ones that say
'for all printers'. The HP Premium and Premium Plus do not have any
wording on them that states that they will work with other brands. I
have found Kodak paper does not work well in most printers either. You
really need to use the same brand of paper for the printer that you're
using. Some generics are more compatible than others (I've found that
Office Depot Professional paper works fine in all the printers I've
tried it in), but may not be as fade resistant as the brand paper.

--

http://www.FenrirOnline.com

Computer services, custom metal etching,
arts, crafts, and much more.

 

[solohans1]

This thread didn't help me with an Epson specific printer, but the general answer was applied to my HP Photosmart 8750 printer. I never would have imaged that using an inferior or incompatible paper would produced such dramatically different results. Thank you forum for the help. Even more helpful than HP's own website.