Electricity and devices dropping off the USB bus

[PaulAlex]

Hello. I have a problem/question regarding devices resetting
themselves on the USB bus, right after I turn on a fan, paper
shredder, etc.

By resetting, I mean, the device drops off the bus and then gets
detected.

I don't know much at all about electricity, but I suspect I'm getting
close to overloading?? Or am I way off base?

It seems like that USB devices require a constant feed of power, and
any miniscule interruption of that is enough to tell Windows that is
has dropped off the USB bus.

Is there a way in Windows to adjust the USB timeout? So even if a
device is "unavailable" for 1 second, it won't fall off the bus?

Here's the deal:

1) The computer itself is plugged into an APC CS350 backup. That in
turn is plugged into a surge protector, which in turn goes into the
wall outlet.

2) My APC CS350 has the USB connection plugged into a USB 1.1 hub,
connected to USB1 on the motherboard.

(For those that don't know, the APC software monitors when
the battery needs to kick in, so Windows can power-down
gracefully, and this is done over USB.)

3) My Epson USB scanner is plugged into a USB 2.0 hub, connected to
the USB3 header on the motherboard.

Things that will cause my USB scanner to reset, or my APC CS350
monitoring software to reset:

A) Turning on my paper shredder. This is plugged into second prong in
Outlet #1. The first prong in Outlet #1 has the surge protector (and
thus the APC daisy-chained to it) plugged into it.

B) Turning on my fan. This is plugged into outlet #2, which is across
the room.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Paul

 

[Marc Reinig]

Is your hub self powered or bus powered? Try making it self powered from a
wall wart.

Is this an ASUS p2b-d motherboard? There was a resistor problem with them
involving USB power.

Marc Reinig
System Solutions

 

[kony]

Hello. I have a problem/question regarding devices resetting
themselves on the USB bus, right after I turn on a fan, paper
shredder, etc.

By resetting, I mean, the device drops off the bus and then gets
detected.

I don't know much at all about electricity, but I suspect I'm getting
close to overloading?? Or am I way off base?

It seems like that USB devices require a constant feed of power, and
any miniscule interruption of that is enough to tell Windows that is
has dropped off the USB bus.

Is there a way in Windows to adjust the USB timeout? So even if a
device is "unavailable" for 1 second, it won't fall off the bus?

Here's the deal:

1) The computer itself is plugged into an APC CS350 backup. That in
turn is plugged into a surge protector, which in turn goes into the
wall outlet.

2) My APC CS350 has the USB connection plugged into a USB 1.1 hub,
connected to USB1 on the motherboard.

(For those that don't know, the APC software monitors when
the battery needs to kick in, so Windows can power-down
gracefully, and this is done over USB.)

3) My Epson USB scanner is plugged into a USB 2.0 hub, connected to
the USB3 header on the motherboard.

Things that will cause my USB scanner to reset, or my APC CS350
monitoring software to reset:

A) Turning on my paper shredder. This is plugged into second prong in
Outlet #1. The first prong in Outlet #1 has the surge protector (and
thus the APC daisy-chained to it) plugged into it.

B) Turning on my fan. This is plugged into outlet #2, which is across
the room.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Paul

Sounds like your house wiring is flaky, needs redone. A
higher-capacity, quality name-brand computer power supply might also
help if your current power supply is inadequate or generic/junk, but
isn't really a good substitute for redoing the house wiring.


Dave

 

[PaulAlex]

Sorry, I forgot to say. Both of my hubs are self-powered.

It's an Asus P4PE motherboard. I'll take a look-see over on
Asusboards.com and see if there are resistor type of issues with this
board, as well.

Paul

 

[PaulAlex]

I currently have an Enermax EG-365 350 Watt Whisper Power Supply. And
since doing any type of house re-wiring is out of the question, do you
think the less desirable substitute is to upgrade to a higher-watt
power supply, as I might have too many devices plugged into my
computer? The existing power supply services the following:

- Intel P4 2.66GHz Northwood 512K Socket 478 533MHz FSB
- ASUS P4PE Motherboard
- 512MB, DDR333 PC2700 CL-2.5 Unbuffered, 184-pin
- 512MB, DDR333 PC2700 CL-2.5 Unbuffered, 184-pin
- Plextor 24x10x40 CD-RW internal IDE Drive Model PX-W2410TA-BPS
- Pioneer DVD-A04 DVD-R/RW
- Soundblaster Audigy X-Gamer sound card
- VisionTek GeForce3 video card
- Western Digital 200GB WD2000JBRTL 7200RPM
- Western Digital 200GB WD2000JBRTL 7200RPM
- IBM 75GB 75GXP Deskstar 7200RPM
- IBM 60GB 60GXP Deskstar 7200RPM

- USB devices (attached via 1.1 or 2.0 hub or directly to mobo):
- web cam #1
- web cam #2
- APC CS350
- Microsoft Sidewinder Game voice
- Epson scanner
- Gravis game controller
- Dell Axim USB cradle
- APP 8-in-1 media-card reader
- keyboard
- mouse
- Zoom modem
- cable running to Yamaha Clavanova piano

It doesn't seem to matter if the -- for example -- Epson scanner is
plugged into either hub or directly into the mobo, it still can drop
off/on the USB bus.

Paul

 

[kony]

I currently have an Enermax EG-365 350 Watt Whisper Power Supply. And
since doing any type of house re-wiring is out of the question, do you
think the less desirable substitute is to upgrade to a higher-watt
power supply, as I might have too many devices plugged into my
computer? The existing power supply services the following:

- Intel P4 2.66GHz Northwood 512K Socket 478 533MHz FSB
- ASUS P4PE Motherboard
- 512MB, DDR333 PC2700 CL-2.5 Unbuffered, 184-pin
- 512MB, DDR333 PC2700 CL-2.5 Unbuffered, 184-pin
- Plextor 24x10x40 CD-RW internal IDE Drive Model PX-W2410TA-BPS
- Pioneer DVD-A04 DVD-R/RW
- Soundblaster Audigy X-Gamer sound card
- VisionTek GeForce3 video card
- Western Digital 200GB WD2000JBRTL 7200RPM
- Western Digital 200GB WD2000JBRTL 7200RPM
- IBM 75GB 75GXP Deskstar 7200RPM
- IBM 60GB 60GXP Deskstar 7200RPM

- USB devices (attached via 1.1 or 2.0 hub or directly to mobo):
- web cam #1
- web cam #2
- APC CS350
- Microsoft Sidewinder Game voice
- Epson scanner
- Gravis game controller
- Dell Axim USB cradle
- APP 8-in-1 media-card reader
- keyboard
- mouse
- Zoom modem
- cable running to Yamaha Clavanova piano

It doesn't seem to matter if the -- for example -- Epson scanner is
plugged into either hub or directly into the mobo, it still can drop
off/on the USB bus.

Paul

That does look like quite a 12V load for a 350W Enermax, though USB
isn't 12V so it's unclear to me whether that will help much, enough,
any, etc.

That's a lot of USB devices, are you sure your total USB power
consumption from the motherboard ports is within spec, 500mA per? How
about the hub(s), are you sure they can deliver as much? Are they
powered hubs (they need be) ?

I'd try another powered USB hub, but that's only a guess.


Dave

 

[Phrederik]

Maybe you're just pulling too much power through the USB hubs.

Does the problem happen when you plug only one device directly into the PC?

Powered hubs are really recommended.

 

[PaulAlex]

Thank you for reminding me. I'm going to attempt just that; I'll
unplug all those USB devices that I really don't use that much and see
if the problem still reproes.

In my previous post, when I said "self-powered," I mispoke, or at
least wasn't very clear at all. Apologies about that.

I meant to say that the USB 1.1 and 2.0 hubs that I have are not
bus-powered, but rather, they do plug into an outlet.

Paul

 

[Marc Reinig]

Your terminology was correct. "Self Powered" means exactly that (as opposed
to "Bus Powered").

Marc Reinig
System Solutions

 

[Phrederik]

Thank you for reminding me. I'm going to attempt just that; I'll
unplug all those USB devices that I really don't use that much and see
if the problem still reproes.

In my previous post, when I said "self-powered," I mispoke, or at
least wasn't very clear at all. Apologies about that.

I was half alseep when I posted. I should have known.

....still a good thing to try is reduce the number of items on the USB busses
and see if that helps.