Ed Bott & George Ou: Vista Upgrade Questions Unanswered by MSFT

C

Chad Harris

MSFT's curreng MSKB covering Upgrades and leaving much out:

How to install Windows Vista (See upgrade section of this MSKB)
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/918884/en-us

MSFT's Current Upgrade to Vista Page:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/buyorupgrade/upgradepaths.mspx

Extreme Tech's article on Vista Upgrades:

Upgrade From Windows XP to Vista

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2082979,00.asp

What's the real story with Vista upgrades?

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=189

Vista Upgrade Edition is lame by design

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=414&tag=nl.e589

What's the Real Story With Vista Upgrades?
Ed Bott
January 29th, 2007

"A story by Ken Fisher on Ars Technica this morning is raising alarm flags.
Fisher points to Microsoft Knowledge Base article 930985, which documents a
change in the setup process for upgrade versions of Windows Vista. The
article's title reads: "You cannot use an upgrade key to perform a clean
installation of Windows Vista."

Fisher concludes, "[Once] again, Microsoft appears to have made licensing
decisions without considering how people actually use their products."

George Ou calls it "another one of those 'what were you thinking' moments
for Microsoft management."

I'm not certain what's actually going on here. The KB article itself is
ambiguous. In Microsoft's world, a clean install requires booting from
optical media (CD or DVD). Here's Microsoft's definition of a clean
installation, as contained in an earlier KB article:

A clean installation refers to removing all data from your hard disk by
repartitioning and reformatting your hard disk and reinstalling the
operating system and programs to an empty (clean) hard disk.

So how is the upgrade media going to work? It sounds like it won't be
bootable, which means that you won't be able to start your PC using the
upgrade DVD. Will it include the disk management tools included on a retail
Vista DVD? Will you be able to install Vista without a product key, as you
can with a retail DVD? Will you be able to install Vista to its own
directory or to an existing disk partition without migrating current
settings - what most people outside Redmond consider a "clean install"?

The answer to all those questions, at this point, is "Nobody knows." At
least, nobody outside of Redmond. So far, the only copies of Windows Vista
that have been distributed to the public and the press have been full retail
copies. I have yet to hear from a single source that has actually seen one
of these upgrade disks and documented the experience. Everything written so
far is just speculation until those disks are in customers' hands tomorrow.
This may turn out to be a headache, as predicted. Or it may turn out to be
much ado about nothing.

Stay tuned."


Vista Upgrade Edition is lame by design
George Ou
January 29, 2007

Arstechnica is reporting that Windows Vista Upgrade edition will not permit
"clean" installs like all previous versions of Windows Upgrade editions.
Will Microsoft pick up the extra hour tab from Geek Squad?This is another
one of those "what were you thinking" moments for Microsoft management
similar to their bone headed decision to lock the retail version of Vista to
one hardware migration. Microsoft backed out of their ridiculous license
change after Ed Bott sounded the alarm and others picked up on the story.
So Vista Upgrade Edition should really be called Vista "Not Clean" "time
waster" Edition. [Update 4:10AM - A reader clarifies that you can
technically do a clean install by telling Vista to wipe the hard drive
before installing after it confirms a full copy of Windows XP is installed.
This however is still lame because you can't just install Vista on a freshly
formatted hard drive and it will still be a huge time waster.]

In the past, Microsoft has always respected their customer's time and
allowed upgrade versions of Windows to install on a fresh machine so long as
the customer could provide proof of possession of the old software. These
new Vista Upgrade DVDs which I'm assuming have already been stamped out will
lack the ability to install on a system unless Windows XP or 2000 was
present. This means anyone looking to do a fresh install for any reason
will not be able to. Someone who is doing disaster recovery after a hard
drive failure or a virus infection won't be able to wipe their hard drive
and install Vista, they'll have to install XP first and then install Vista
on top of XP. That could easily mean nearly an hour wasted. If you're
paying someone to rebuild your computer, this will mean an extra hour of
labor that will be billed to you for the installation of Windows XP. Will
Microsoft pick up the extra hour tab from Geek Squad for everyone?

Some might just say tough; you don't have to buy Windows Vista Upgrade
Edition if you don't like the terms of the agreement. But the problem is
that there are probably already millions of people who bought in to the
promise of Vista upgrade coupons during this last holiday shopping season
with their new computers or their copy of Windows XP and they weren't told
that the upgrade terms have been changed. The Vista Upgrade coupons were
used to lure people in to buying brand new computers for the holiday 2006
shopping season when many people would have probably opted to wait until
after Vista launches at the end of January had they known about these new
restrictions. Now these people are going to be in for a big shock after
they wipe their computers and find out that their copy of Vista won't
install without XP on the computer.

So why is Microsoft making a bone headed decision like this? One
possibility is that Microsoft is afraid that people might try to keep
running XP or Media Center on their existing machines and use Vista on a new
computer. This would mean that Microsoft would be giving away two copies of
Windows for the price of one. While I realize that a company has to make
money off of a commercial Operating System, surely Microsoft could have
worked out a better arrangement. Why not ask people to turn in their old
Windows XP serial number when they get their Full Vista DVD and then
blacklist that serial number from Windows Genuine Advantage. This would be
a fair free trade-up from Windows XP to Windows Vista and no one should
expect to get two versions of Windows for the price of one.

But it could be too late for Microsoft to avoid a backlash because Vista is
launching at the end of today and all those copies of Vista Upgrade with no
way to do clean installs have probably already been manufactured. If
Microsoft wants to set things right for people who want to do clean installs
of Windows Vista especially those who bought in to the promise of Vista
coupons during this last holiday season, Microsoft should allow these people
to opt for a trade-up to the full version of Vista where the old XP serial
number is blacklisted on WGA 30 days after the Vista is shipped to them.
That would seem to be the least they can do.



Sould Microsoft allow a full trade-up to Vista?"

January 29th, 2007

CH
 
C

Chad Harris

MSFT has blocked your ability to repair Vista in two major ways it turns
out:

1) If you do not get a Vista DVD (Dell says you will from them) when you pay
$1000-2000 for your new Vista preloaded computer today, tonight or in the
future you cannot access the repair modalities I describe below from Win RE
on the Vista DVD or the Windows Repair Environment.

2) If you buy an Upgrade DVD.

See below:

And with all the excellent upgrade posts here, including Colin Barnhorst's I
haven't seen this little issue raised. Suppose that you cannot use Win RE's
major components to repair Vista which would be Startup Repair, System
Restore *from Win RE which I find superior to SR using the Volume Shadow
system adapted from the Windows Server environment, restoring the boot
sector using the bootsect /nt52 SYS from the Windows Recovery Environment
discussed in the MSKB directly below

How to troubleshoot scenarios in which the rollback phase was unsuccessful
after you upgrade from Windows XP to Windows Vista
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927523/en-us

and something that has not been mentioned that I can tell to date on this
group or much in the TBT groups:

How to use the Bootrec.exe tool in the Windows Recovery Environment to
troubleshoot and repair startup issues in Windows Vista
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927392/en-us

Startup Repair can also be used when there is not a problem booting into
Windows Vista and when it works which is not all the time (you should repeat
2-3 times if it does not) fix major broken Vista components:

A Stop error occurs, or the computer stops responding when you try to start
Windows Vista
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/925810/en-us

So suppose all these repair modalities used correctly and I emphasize there
are a minority of times when Startup Repair may need to be tried, i.e.
repeated 2-3 times until it works, and you have this scnario mentioned by
George Ou on his ZDNET blog this morning (January 29, 2007) in my time zone:

(I would think you could avoid a lot of "Geek Squad" money by the way by
simply searching this group, the setup group and the other MSFT Vista public
groups using View>Find):

From George Ou and a point that has not been raised that I can tell on this
group or the setup group and certainly has not been touched by Jill Zoeller
or Darrel Gorter who occasionally particpate here from MSFT:

From:
January 29th, 2007
Vista Upgrade Edition is lame by design

by George Ou

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=414&tag=nl.e589


"These new Vista Upgrade DVDs which I'm assuming have already been stamped
out will lack the ability to install on a system unless Windows XP or 2000
was present. This means anyone looking to do a fresh install for any reason
will not be able to. Someone who is doing disaster recovery after a hard
drive failure or a virus infection won't be able to wipe their hard drive
and install Vista, they'll have to install XP first and then install Vista
on top of XP. That could easily mean nearly an hour wasted. If you're
paying someone to rebuild your computer, this will mean an extra hour of
labor that will be billed to you for the installation of Windows XP. Will
Microsoft pick up the extra hour tab from Geek Squad for everyone?"


MSFT's current MSKB covering Upgrades and leaving much out:

How to install Windows Vista (See upgrade section of this MSKB)
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/918884/en-us

MSFT's Current Upgrade to Vista Page:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/buyorupgrade/upgradepaths.mspx

Extreme Tech's article on Vista Upgrades:

Upgrade From Windows XP to Vista

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2082979,00.asp

What's the real story with Vista upgrades?

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=189

Vista Upgrade Edition is lame by design

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=414&tag=nl.e589

CH


Chad Harris said:
MSFT's curreng MSKB covering Upgrades and leaving much out:

How to install Windows Vista (See upgrade section of this MSKB)
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/918884/en-us

MSFT's Current Upgrade to Vista Page:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/buyorupgrade/upgradepaths.mspx

Extreme Tech's article on Vista Upgrades:

Upgrade From Windows XP to Vista

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2082979,00.asp

What's the real story with Vista upgrades?

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=189

Vista Upgrade Edition is lame by design

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=414&tag=nl.e589

What's the Real Story With Vista Upgrades?
Ed Bott
January 29th, 2007

"A story by Ken Fisher on Ars Technica this morning is raising alarm
flags. Fisher points to Microsoft Knowledge Base article 930985, which
documents a change in the setup process for upgrade versions of Windows
Vista. The article's title reads: "You cannot use an upgrade key to
perform a clean installation of Windows Vista."

Fisher concludes, "[Once] again, Microsoft appears to have made licensing
decisions without considering how people actually use their products."

George Ou calls it "another one of those 'what were you thinking' moments
for Microsoft management."

I'm not certain what's actually going on here. The KB article itself is
ambiguous. In Microsoft's world, a clean install requires booting from
optical media (CD or DVD). Here's Microsoft's definition of a clean
installation, as contained in an earlier KB article:

A clean installation refers to removing all data from your hard disk by
repartitioning and reformatting your hard disk and reinstalling the
operating system and programs to an empty (clean) hard disk.

So how is the upgrade media going to work? It sounds like it won't be
bootable, which means that you won't be able to start your PC using the
upgrade DVD. Will it include the disk management tools included on a
retail Vista DVD? Will you be able to install Vista without a product key,
as you can with a retail DVD? Will you be able to install Vista to its own
directory or to an existing disk partition without migrating current
settings - what most people outside Redmond consider a "clean install"?

The answer to all those questions, at this point, is "Nobody knows." At
least, nobody outside of Redmond. So far, the only copies of Windows Vista
that have been distributed to the public and the press have been full
retail copies. I have yet to hear from a single source that has actually
seen one of these upgrade disks and documented the experience. Everything
written so far is just speculation until those disks are in customers'
hands tomorrow. This may turn out to be a headache, as predicted. Or it
may turn out to be much ado about nothing.

Stay tuned."


Vista Upgrade Edition is lame by design
George Ou
January 29, 2007

Arstechnica is reporting that Windows Vista Upgrade edition will not
permit "clean" installs like all previous versions of Windows Upgrade
editions. Will Microsoft pick up the extra hour tab from Geek Squad?This
is another one of those "what were you thinking" moments for Microsoft
management similar to their bone headed decision to lock the retail
version of Vista to one hardware migration. Microsoft backed out of their
ridiculous license change after Ed Bott sounded the alarm and others
picked up on the story. So Vista Upgrade Edition should really be called
Vista "Not Clean" "time waster" Edition. [Update 4:10AM - A reader
clarifies that you can technically do a clean install by telling Vista to
wipe the hard drive before installing after it confirms a full copy of
Windows XP is installed. This however is still lame because you can't just
install Vista on a freshly formatted hard drive and it will still be a
huge time waster.]

In the past, Microsoft has always respected their customer's time and
allowed upgrade versions of Windows to install on a fresh machine so long
as the customer could provide proof of possession of the old software.
These new Vista Upgrade DVDs which I'm assuming have already been stamped
out will lack the ability to install on a system unless Windows XP or 2000
was present. This means anyone looking to do a fresh install for any
reason will not be able to. Someone who is doing disaster recovery after
a hard drive failure or a virus infection won't be able to wipe their hard
drive and install Vista, they'll have to install XP first and then install
Vista on top of XP. That could easily mean nearly an hour wasted. If
you're paying someone to rebuild your computer, this will mean an extra
hour of labor that will be billed to you for the installation of Windows
XP. Will Microsoft pick up the extra hour tab from Geek Squad for
everyone?

Some might just say tough; you don't have to buy Windows Vista Upgrade
Edition if you don't like the terms of the agreement. But the problem is
that there are probably already millions of people who bought in to the
promise of Vista upgrade coupons during this last holiday shopping season
with their new computers or their copy of Windows XP and they weren't told
that the upgrade terms have been changed. The Vista Upgrade coupons were
used to lure people in to buying brand new computers for the holiday 2006
shopping season when many people would have probably opted to wait until
after Vista launches at the end of January had they known about these new
restrictions. Now these people are going to be in for a big shock after
they wipe their computers and find out that their copy of Vista won't
install without XP on the computer.

So why is Microsoft making a bone headed decision like this? One
possibility is that Microsoft is afraid that people might try to keep
running XP or Media Center on their existing machines and use Vista on a
new computer. This would mean that Microsoft would be giving away two
copies of Windows for the price of one. While I realize that a company
has to make money off of a commercial Operating System, surely Microsoft
could have worked out a better arrangement. Why not ask people to turn in
their old Windows XP serial number when they get their Full Vista DVD and
then blacklist that serial number from Windows Genuine Advantage. This
would be a fair free trade-up from Windows XP to Windows Vista and no one
should expect to get two versions of Windows for the price of one.

But it could be too late for Microsoft to avoid a backlash because Vista
is launching at the end of today and all those copies of Vista Upgrade
with no way to do clean installs have probably already been manufactured.
If Microsoft wants to set things right for people who want to do clean
installs of Windows Vista especially those who bought in to the promise of
Vista coupons during this last holiday season, Microsoft should allow
these people to opt for a trade-up to the full version of Vista where the
old XP serial number is blacklisted on WGA 30 days after the Vista is
shipped to them. That would seem to be the least they can do.



Sould Microsoft allow a full trade-up to Vista?"

January 29th, 2007

CH
 
C

Colin Barnhorst

I beleive Darrel told us months ago that WinRE is available when you boot a
retail dvd no matter what box (upgrade or full) it came out of because all
retail dvd's are exactly the same.

Chad Harris said:
MSFT has blocked your ability to repair Vista in two major ways it turns
out:

1) If you do not get a Vista DVD (Dell says you will from them) when you
pay $1000-2000 for your new Vista preloaded computer today, tonight or in
the future you cannot access the repair modalities I describe below from
Win RE on the Vista DVD or the Windows Repair Environment.

2) If you buy an Upgrade DVD.

See below:

And with all the excellent upgrade posts here, including Colin Barnhorst's
I
haven't seen this little issue raised. Suppose that you cannot use Win
RE's
major components to repair Vista which would be Startup Repair, System
Restore *from Win RE which I find superior to SR using the Volume Shadow
system adapted from the Windows Server environment, restoring the boot
sector using the bootsect /nt52 SYS from the Windows Recovery Environment
discussed in the MSKB directly below

How to troubleshoot scenarios in which the rollback phase was unsuccessful
after you upgrade from Windows XP to Windows Vista
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927523/en-us

and something that has not been mentioned that I can tell to date on this
group or much in the TBT groups:

How to use the Bootrec.exe tool in the Windows Recovery Environment to
troubleshoot and repair startup issues in Windows Vista
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927392/en-us

Startup Repair can also be used when there is not a problem booting into
Windows Vista and when it works which is not all the time (you should
repeat
2-3 times if it does not) fix major broken Vista components:

A Stop error occurs, or the computer stops responding when you try to
start
Windows Vista
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/925810/en-us

So suppose all these repair modalities used correctly and I emphasize
there
are a minority of times when Startup Repair may need to be tried, i.e.
repeated 2-3 times until it works, and you have this scnario mentioned by
George Ou on his ZDNET blog this morning (January 29, 2007) in my time
zone:

(I would think you could avoid a lot of "Geek Squad" money by the way by
simply searching this group, the setup group and the other MSFT Vista
public
groups using View>Find):

From George Ou and a point that has not been raised that I can tell on
this
group or the setup group and certainly has not been touched by Jill
Zoeller
or Darrel Gorter who occasionally particpate here from MSFT:

From:
January 29th, 2007
Vista Upgrade Edition is lame by design

by George Ou

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=414&tag=nl.e589


"These new Vista Upgrade DVDs which I'm assuming have already been stamped
out will lack the ability to install on a system unless Windows XP or 2000
was present. This means anyone looking to do a fresh install for any
reason
will not be able to. Someone who is doing disaster recovery after a hard
drive failure or a virus infection won't be able to wipe their hard drive
and install Vista, they'll have to install XP first and then install Vista
on top of XP. That could easily mean nearly an hour wasted. If you're
paying someone to rebuild your computer, this will mean an extra hour of
labor that will be billed to you for the installation of Windows XP. Will
Microsoft pick up the extra hour tab from Geek Squad for everyone?"


MSFT's current MSKB covering Upgrades and leaving much out:

How to install Windows Vista (See upgrade section of this MSKB)
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/918884/en-us

MSFT's Current Upgrade to Vista Page:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/buyorupgrade/upgradepaths.mspx

Extreme Tech's article on Vista Upgrades:

Upgrade From Windows XP to Vista

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2082979,00.asp

What's the real story with Vista upgrades?

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=189

Vista Upgrade Edition is lame by design

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=414&tag=nl.e589

CH


Chad Harris said:
MSFT's curreng MSKB covering Upgrades and leaving much out:

How to install Windows Vista (See upgrade section of this MSKB)
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/918884/en-us

MSFT's Current Upgrade to Vista Page:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/buyorupgrade/upgradepaths.mspx

Extreme Tech's article on Vista Upgrades:

Upgrade From Windows XP to Vista

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2082979,00.asp

What's the real story with Vista upgrades?

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=189

Vista Upgrade Edition is lame by design

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=414&tag=nl.e589

What's the Real Story With Vista Upgrades?
Ed Bott
January 29th, 2007

"A story by Ken Fisher on Ars Technica this morning is raising alarm
flags. Fisher points to Microsoft Knowledge Base article 930985, which
documents a change in the setup process for upgrade versions of Windows
Vista. The article's title reads: "You cannot use an upgrade key to
perform a clean installation of Windows Vista."

Fisher concludes, "[Once] again, Microsoft appears to have made licensing
decisions without considering how people actually use their products."

George Ou calls it "another one of those 'what were you thinking' moments
for Microsoft management."

I'm not certain what's actually going on here. The KB article itself is
ambiguous. In Microsoft's world, a clean install requires booting from
optical media (CD or DVD). Here's Microsoft's definition of a clean
installation, as contained in an earlier KB article:

A clean installation refers to removing all data from your hard disk by
repartitioning and reformatting your hard disk and reinstalling the
operating system and programs to an empty (clean) hard disk.

So how is the upgrade media going to work? It sounds like it won't be
bootable, which means that you won't be able to start your PC using the
upgrade DVD. Will it include the disk management tools included on a
retail Vista DVD? Will you be able to install Vista without a product
key, as you can with a retail DVD? Will you be able to install Vista to
its own directory or to an existing disk partition without migrating
current settings - what most people outside Redmond consider a "clean
install"?

The answer to all those questions, at this point, is "Nobody knows." At
least, nobody outside of Redmond. So far, the only copies of Windows
Vista that have been distributed to the public and the press have been
full retail copies. I have yet to hear from a single source that has
actually seen one of these upgrade disks and documented the experience.
Everything written so far is just speculation until those disks are in
customers' hands tomorrow. This may turn out to be a headache, as
predicted. Or it may turn out to be much ado about nothing.

Stay tuned."


Vista Upgrade Edition is lame by design
George Ou
January 29, 2007

Arstechnica is reporting that Windows Vista Upgrade edition will not
permit "clean" installs like all previous versions of Windows Upgrade
editions. Will Microsoft pick up the extra hour tab from Geek Squad?This
is another one of those "what were you thinking" moments for Microsoft
management similar to their bone headed decision to lock the retail
version of Vista to one hardware migration. Microsoft backed out of
their ridiculous license change after Ed Bott sounded the alarm and
others picked up on the story. So Vista Upgrade Edition should really be
called Vista "Not Clean" "time waster" Edition. [Update 4:10AM - A
reader clarifies that you can technically do a clean install by telling
Vista to wipe the hard drive before installing after it confirms a full
copy of Windows XP is installed. This however is still lame because you
can't just install Vista on a freshly formatted hard drive and it will
still be a huge time waster.]

In the past, Microsoft has always respected their customer's time and
allowed upgrade versions of Windows to install on a fresh machine so long
as the customer could provide proof of possession of the old software.
These new Vista Upgrade DVDs which I'm assuming have already been stamped
out will lack the ability to install on a system unless Windows XP or
2000 was present. This means anyone looking to do a fresh install for
any reason will not be able to. Someone who is doing disaster recovery
after a hard drive failure or a virus infection won't be able to wipe
their hard drive and install Vista, they'll have to install XP first and
then install Vista on top of XP. That could easily mean nearly an hour
wasted. If you're paying someone to rebuild your computer, this will
mean an extra hour of labor that will be billed to you for the
installation of Windows XP. Will Microsoft pick up the extra hour tab
from Geek Squad for everyone?

Some might just say tough; you don't have to buy Windows Vista Upgrade
Edition if you don't like the terms of the agreement. But the problem is
that there are probably already millions of people who bought in to the
promise of Vista upgrade coupons during this last holiday shopping season
with their new computers or their copy of Windows XP and they weren't
told that the upgrade terms have been changed. The Vista Upgrade coupons
were used to lure people in to buying brand new computers for the holiday
2006 shopping season when many people would have probably opted to wait
until after Vista launches at the end of January had they known about
these new restrictions. Now these people are going to be in for a big
shock after they wipe their computers and find out that their copy of
Vista won't install without XP on the computer.

So why is Microsoft making a bone headed decision like this? One
possibility is that Microsoft is afraid that people might try to keep
running XP or Media Center on their existing machines and use Vista on a
new computer. This would mean that Microsoft would be giving away two
copies of Windows for the price of one. While I realize that a company
has to make money off of a commercial Operating System, surely Microsoft
could have worked out a better arrangement. Why not ask people to turn
in their old Windows XP serial number when they get their Full Vista DVD
and then blacklist that serial number from Windows Genuine Advantage.
This would be a fair free trade-up from Windows XP to Windows Vista and
no one should expect to get two versions of Windows for the price of one.

But it could be too late for Microsoft to avoid a backlash because Vista
is launching at the end of today and all those copies of Vista Upgrade
with no way to do clean installs have probably already been manufactured.
If Microsoft wants to set things right for people who want to do clean
installs of Windows Vista especially those who bought in to the promise
of Vista coupons during this last holiday season, Microsoft should allow
these people to opt for a trade-up to the full version of Vista where the
old XP serial number is blacklisted on WGA 30 days after the Vista is
shipped to them. That would seem to be the least they can do.



Sould Microsoft allow a full trade-up to Vista?"

January 29th, 2007

CH
 
D

Darrell Gorter[MSFT]

Hello,
Correct. Retail and upgrade media should be the same. The product key
detemines the behavior..
Both are bootable, both contain WinRE. You can boot to the Upgrade DVD and
get to WinRE to use the repair functionality
The only media that may not be bootable is the Volume License Upgrade
Media. ( I don't have a copy of that media to test whether it's bootable or
not, but I have been told that Volume License Upgrade media is not supposed
to be bootable)

Thanks,
Darrell Gorter[MSFT]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights
--------------------
|>From: "Colin Barnhorst" <[email protected]>
|>References: <[email protected]>
<#9bp#[email protected]>
|>In-Reply-To: <#9bp#[email protected]>
|>Subject: Re: How MSFT has blocked your repairing Vista--if No DVD or
Upgrade DVD
|>Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 19:43:37 -0700
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|>Path: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl
|>Xref: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl microsoft.public.windows.vista.general:24923
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|>
|>I beleive Darrel told us months ago that WinRE is available when you boot
a
|>retail dvd no matter what box (upgrade or full) it came out of because
all
|>retail dvd's are exactly the same.
|>
|>"Chad Harris" <fixvista-itneedsit.net> wrote in message
|>|>>
|>> MSFT has blocked your ability to repair Vista in two major ways it
turns
|>> out:
|>>
|>> 1) If you do not get a Vista DVD (Dell says you will from them) when
you
|>> pay $1000-2000 for your new Vista preloaded computer today, tonight or
in
|>> the future you cannot access the repair modalities I describe below
from
|>> Win RE on the Vista DVD or the Windows Repair Environment.
|>>
|>> 2) If you buy an Upgrade DVD.
|>>
|>> See below:
|>>
|>> And with all the excellent upgrade posts here, including Colin
Barnhorst's
|>> I
|>> haven't seen this little issue raised. Suppose that you cannot use Win
|>> RE's
|>> major components to repair Vista which would be Startup Repair, System
|>> Restore *from Win RE which I find superior to SR using the Volume Shadow
|>> system adapted from the Windows Server environment, restoring the boot
|>> sector using the bootsect /nt52 SYS from the Windows Recovery
Environment
|>> discussed in the MSKB directly below
|>>
|>> How to troubleshoot scenarios in which the rollback phase was
unsuccessful
|>> after you upgrade from Windows XP to Windows Vista
|>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927523/en-us
|>>
|>> and something that has not been mentioned that I can tell to date on
this
|>> group or much in the TBT groups:
|>>
|>> How to use the Bootrec.exe tool in the Windows Recovery Environment to
|>> troubleshoot and repair startup issues in Windows Vista
|>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927392/en-us
|>>
|>> Startup Repair can also be used when there is not a problem booting into
|>> Windows Vista and when it works which is not all the time (you should
|>> repeat
|>> 2-3 times if it does not) fix major broken Vista components:
|>>
|>> A Stop error occurs, or the computer stops responding when you try to
|>> start
|>> Windows Vista
|>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/925810/en-us
|>>
|>> So suppose all these repair modalities used correctly and I emphasize
|>> there
|>> are a minority of times when Startup Repair may need to be tried, i.e.
|>> repeated 2-3 times until it works, and you have this scnario mentioned
by
|>> George Ou on his ZDNET blog this morning (January 29, 2007) in my time
|>> zone:
|>>
|>> (I would think you could avoid a lot of "Geek Squad" money by the way by
|>> simply searching this group, the setup group and the other MSFT Vista
|>> public
|>> groups using View>Find):
|>>
|>> From George Ou and a point that has not been raised that I can tell on
|>> this
|>> group or the setup group and certainly has not been touched by Jill
|>> Zoeller
|>> or Darrel Gorter who occasionally particpate here from MSFT:
|>>
|>> From:
|>> January 29th, 2007
|>> Vista Upgrade Edition is lame by design
|>>
|>> by George Ou
|>>
|>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=414&tag=nl.e589
|>>
|>>
|>> "These new Vista Upgrade DVDs which I'm assuming have already been
stamped
|>> out will lack the ability to install on a system unless Windows XP or
2000
|>> was present. This means anyone looking to do a fresh install for any
|>> reason
|>> will not be able to. Someone who is doing disaster recovery after a
hard
|>> drive failure or a virus infection won't be able to wipe their hard
drive
|>> and install Vista, they'll have to install XP first and then install
Vista
|>> on top of XP. That could easily mean nearly an hour wasted. If you're
|>> paying someone to rebuild your computer, this will mean an extra hour of
|>> labor that will be billed to you for the installation of Windows XP.
Will
|>> Microsoft pick up the extra hour tab from Geek Squad for everyone?"
|>>
|>>
|>> MSFT's current MSKB covering Upgrades and leaving much out:
|>>
|>> How to install Windows Vista (See upgrade section of this MSKB)
|>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/918884/en-us
|>>
|>> MSFT's Current Upgrade to Vista Page:
|>>
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/buyorupgrade/upgradep
aths.mspx
|>>
|>> Extreme Tech's article on Vista Upgrades:
|>>
|>> Upgrade From Windows XP to Vista
|>>
|>> http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2082979,00.asp
|>>
|>> What's the real story with Vista upgrades?
|>>
|>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=189
|>>
|>> Vista Upgrade Edition is lame by design
|>>
|>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=414&tag=nl.e589
|>>
|>> CH
|>>
|>>
|>> "Chad Harris" <fixvista-itneedsit.net> wrote in message
|>> |>>> MSFT's curreng MSKB covering Upgrades and leaving much out:
|>>>
|>>> How to install Windows Vista (See upgrade section of this MSKB)
|>>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/918884/en-us
|>>>
|>>> MSFT's Current Upgrade to Vista Page:
|>>>
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/buyorupgrade/upgradep
aths.mspx
|>>>
|>>> Extreme Tech's article on Vista Upgrades:
|>>>
|>>> Upgrade From Windows XP to Vista
|>>>
|>>> http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2082979,00.asp
|>>>
|>>> What's the real story with Vista upgrades?
|>>>
|>>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=189
|>>>
|>>> Vista Upgrade Edition is lame by design
|>>>
|>>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=414&tag=nl.e589
|>>>
|>>> What's the Real Story With Vista Upgrades?
|>>> Ed Bott
|>>> January 29th, 2007
|>>>
|>>> "A story by Ken Fisher on Ars Technica this morning is raising alarm
|>>> flags. Fisher points to Microsoft Knowledge Base article 930985, which
|>>> documents a change in the setup process for upgrade versions of
Windows
|>>> Vista. The article's title reads: "You cannot use an upgrade key to
|>>> perform a clean installation of Windows Vista."
|>>>
|>>> Fisher concludes, "[Once] again, Microsoft appears to have made
licensing
|>>> decisions without considering how people actually use their products."
|>>>
|>>> George Ou calls it "another one of those 'what were you thinking'
moments
|>>> for Microsoft management."
|>>>
|>>> I'm not certain what's actually going on here. The KB article itself
is
|>>> ambiguous. In Microsoft's world, a clean install requires booting from
|>>> optical media (CD or DVD). Here's Microsoft's definition of a clean
|>>> installation, as contained in an earlier KB article:
|>>>
|>>> A clean installation refers to removing all data from your hard disk
by
|>>> repartitioning and reformatting your hard disk and reinstalling the
|>>> operating system and programs to an empty (clean) hard disk.
|>>>
|>>> So how is the upgrade media going to work? It sounds like it won't be
|>>> bootable, which means that you won't be able to start your PC using
the
|>>> upgrade DVD. Will it include the disk management tools included on a
|>>> retail Vista DVD? Will you be able to install Vista without a product
|>>> key, as you can with a retail DVD? Will you be able to install Vista
to
|>>> its own directory or to an existing disk partition without migrating
|>>> current settings - what most people outside Redmond consider a "clean
|>>> install"?
|>>>
|>>> The answer to all those questions, at this point, is "Nobody knows."
At
|>>> least, nobody outside of Redmond. So far, the only copies of Windows
|>>> Vista that have been distributed to the public and the press have been
|>>> full retail copies. I have yet to hear from a single source that has
|>>> actually seen one of these upgrade disks and documented the
experience.
|>>> Everything written so far is just speculation until those disks are in
|>>> customers' hands tomorrow. This may turn out to be a headache, as
|>>> predicted. Or it may turn out to be much ado about nothing.
|>>>
|>>> Stay tuned."
|>>>
|>>>
|>>> Vista Upgrade Edition is lame by design
|>>> George Ou
|>>> January 29, 2007
|>>>
|>>> Arstechnica is reporting that Windows Vista Upgrade edition will not
|>>> permit "clean" installs like all previous versions of Windows Upgrade
|>>> editions. Will Microsoft pick up the extra hour tab from Geek
Squad?This
|>>> is another one of those "what were you thinking" moments for Microsoft
|>>> management similar to their bone headed decision to lock the retail
|>>> version of Vista to one hardware migration. Microsoft backed out of
|>>> their ridiculous license change after Ed Bott sounded the alarm and
|>>> others picked up on the story. So Vista Upgrade Edition should really
be
|>>> called Vista "Not Clean" "time waster" Edition. [Update 4:10AM - A
|>>> reader clarifies that you can technically do a clean install by
telling
|>>> Vista to wipe the hard drive before installing after it confirms a
full
|>>> copy of Windows XP is installed. This however is still lame because
you
|>>> can't just install Vista on a freshly formatted hard drive and it will
|>>> still be a huge time waster.]
|>>>
|>>> In the past, Microsoft has always respected their customer's time and
|>>> allowed upgrade versions of Windows to install on a fresh machine so
long
|>>> as the customer could provide proof of possession of the old software.
|>>> These new Vista Upgrade DVDs which I'm assuming have already been
stamped
|>>> out will lack the ability to install on a system unless Windows XP or
|>>> 2000 was present. This means anyone looking to do a fresh install for
|>>> any reason will not be able to. Someone who is doing disaster
recovery
|>>> after a hard drive failure or a virus infection won't be able to wipe
|>>> their hard drive and install Vista, they'll have to install XP first
and
|>>> then install Vista on top of XP. That could easily mean nearly an
hour
|>>> wasted. If you're paying someone to rebuild your computer, this will
|>>> mean an extra hour of labor that will be billed to you for the
|>>> installation of Windows XP. Will Microsoft pick up the extra hour tab
|>>> from Geek Squad for everyone?
|>>>
|>>> Some might just say tough; you don't have to buy Windows Vista Upgrade
|>>> Edition if you don't like the terms of the agreement. But the problem
is
|>>> that there are probably already millions of people who bought in to
the
|>>> promise of Vista upgrade coupons during this last holiday shopping
season
|>>> with their new computers or their copy of Windows XP and they weren't
|>>> told that the upgrade terms have been changed. The Vista Upgrade
coupons
|>>> were used to lure people in to buying brand new computers for the
holiday
|>>> 2006 shopping season when many people would have probably opted to
wait
|>>> until after Vista launches at the end of January had they known about
|>>> these new restrictions. Now these people are going to be in for a big
|>>> shock after they wipe their computers and find out that their copy of
|>>> Vista won't install without XP on the computer.
|>>>
|>>> So why is Microsoft making a bone headed decision like this? One
|>>> possibility is that Microsoft is afraid that people might try to keep
|>>> running XP or Media Center on their existing machines and use Vista on
a
|>>> new computer. This would mean that Microsoft would be giving away two
|>>> copies of Windows for the price of one. While I realize that a
company
|>>> has to make money off of a commercial Operating System, surely
Microsoft
|>>> could have worked out a better arrangement. Why not ask people to
turn
|>>> in their old Windows XP serial number when they get their Full Vista
DVD
|>>> and then blacklist that serial number from Windows Genuine Advantage.
|>>> This would be a fair free trade-up from Windows XP to Windows Vista
and
|>>> no one should expect to get two versions of Windows for the price of
one.
|>>>
|>>> But it could be too late for Microsoft to avoid a backlash because
Vista
|>>> is launching at the end of today and all those copies of Vista Upgrade
|>>> with no way to do clean installs have probably already been
manufactured.
|>>> If Microsoft wants to set things right for people who want to do clean
|>>> installs of Windows Vista especially those who bought in to the
promise
|>>> of Vista coupons during this last holiday season, Microsoft should
allow
|>>> these people to opt for a trade-up to the full version of Vista where
the
|>>> old XP serial number is blacklisted on WGA 30 days after the Vista is
|>>> shipped to them. That would seem to be the least they can do.
|>>>
|>>>
|>>>
|>>> Sould Microsoft allow a full trade-up to Vista?"
|>>>
|>>> January 29th, 2007
|>>>
|>>> CH
|>>
|>
|>
 
N

Nina DiBoy

Darrell said:
Hello,
Onl;y the upgrade volume media may not be bootable.
Since all Volume License media is assumed that you have a compliant OS
license already.
The VL licenses are for upgrade media licensing even though you can request
full media, the license is still upgrade.
Thanks,
Darrell Gorter[MSFT]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights

Is there anyway to use the VL upgrade media/licence to do a full, clean
fresh install?
--------------------
|>From: Nina DiBoy <[email protected]>
|>Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>Subject: Re: How MSFT has blocked your repairing Vista--if No DVD or
Upgrade
|> DVD
|>Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 19:13:29 -0600
|>Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
|>Lines: 31
|>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
|>References: <[email protected]>
<#9bp#[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
|>NNTP-Posting-Host: rYp1t+S3FYRG/mSujoIWjQ.user.aioe.org
|>Mime-Version: 1.0
|>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
|>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|>X-Complaints-To: (e-mail address removed)
|>In-Reply-To:
|>User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207)
|>Path:
TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTFEEDS01.phx.gbl!newsfeed0
0.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newspeer1.de.telia.net!newspeer4.de.telia.net!
de.telia.net!aioe.org!not-for-mail
|>Xref: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl microsoft.public.windows.vista.general:25906
|>X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>
|>Darrell Gorter[MSFT] wrote:
|>> Hello,
|>> Correct. Retail and upgrade media should be the same. The product key
|>> detemines the behavior..
|>> Both are bootable, both contain WinRE. You can boot to the Upgrade DVD
and
|>> get to WinRE to use the repair functionality
|>> The only media that may not be bootable is the Volume License Upgrade
|>> Media. ( I don't have a copy of that media to test whether it's
bootable or
|>> not, but I have been told that Volume License Upgrade media is not
supposed
|>> to be bootable)
|>>
|>> Thanks,
|>> Darrell Gorter[MSFT]
|>>
|>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights
|>
|>Hi Darrell.
|>
|>Why would the volume license media not be bootable?
|>



--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

"Good poets borrow; great poets steal."
- T. S. Eliot
 
D

Darrell Gorter[MSFT]

Hello,
Why? when you can request the full media instead?
Since Volume License Upgrade is not bootable, your options are limited, so
just request full media.
Thanks,
Darrell Gorter[MSFT]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights
--------------------
|>From: Nina DiBoy <[email protected]>
|>Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>Subject: Re: How MSFT has blocked your repairing Vista--if No DVD or
Upgrade
|> DVD
|>Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 12:00:26 -0600
|>Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
|>Lines: 76
|>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
|>References: <[email protected]>
<#9bp#[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
|>NNTP-Posting-Host: D1fZ/3G+2PqNUka41YI5Pw.user.aioe.org
|>Mime-Version: 1.0
|>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
|>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|>X-Complaints-To: (e-mail address removed)
|>In-Reply-To:
|>User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207)
|>Path:
TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTFEEDS01.phx.gbl!newsfeed0
0.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.karotte.org!news2.arglkargh.de!news.cnetm
..de!news.motzarella.org!aioe.org!not-for-mail
|>Xref: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl microsoft.public.windows.vista.general:26482
|>X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>
|>Darrell Gorter[MSFT] wrote:
|>> Hello,
|>> Onl;y the upgrade volume media may not be bootable.
|>> Since all Volume License media is assumed that you have a compliant OS
|>> license already.
|>> The VL licenses are for upgrade media licensing even though you can
request
|>> full media, the license is still upgrade.
|>> Thanks,
|>> Darrell Gorter[MSFT]
|>>
|>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights
|>
|>Is there anyway to use the VL upgrade media/licence to do a full, clean
|>fresh install?
|>
|>> --------------------
|>> |>From: Nina DiBoy <[email protected]>
|>> |>Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>> |>Subject: Re: How MSFT has blocked your repairing Vista--if No DVD or
|>> Upgrade
|>> |> DVD
|>> |>Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 19:13:29 -0600
|>> |>Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
|>> |>Lines: 31
|>> |>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
|>> |>References: <[email protected]>
|>> <#9bp#[email protected]>
|>> <[email protected]>
|>> <[email protected]>
|>> |>NNTP-Posting-Host: rYp1t+S3FYRG/mSujoIWjQ.user.aioe.org
|>> |>Mime-Version: 1.0
|>> |>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
|>> |>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|>> |>X-Complaints-To: (e-mail address removed)
|>> |>In-Reply-To:
|>> |>User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207)
|>> |>Path:
|>>
TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTFEEDS01.phx.gbl!newsfeed0
|>>
0.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newspeer1.de.telia.net!newspeer4.de.telia.net!
|>> de.telia.net!aioe.org!not-for-mail
|>> |>Xref: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl
microsoft.public.windows.vista.general:25906
|>> |>X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>> |>
|>> |>Darrell Gorter[MSFT] wrote:
|>> |>> Hello,
|>> |>> Correct. Retail and upgrade media should be the same. The product
key
|>> |>> detemines the behavior..
|>> |>> Both are bootable, both contain WinRE. You can boot to the Upgrade
DVD
|>> and
|>> |>> get to WinRE to use the repair functionality
|>> |>> The only media that may not be bootable is the Volume License
Upgrade
|>> |>> Media. ( I don't have a copy of that media to test whether it's
|>> bootable or
|>> |>> not, but I have been told that Volume License Upgrade media is not
|>> supposed
|>> |>> to be bootable)
|>> |>>
|>> |>> Thanks,
|>> |>> Darrell Gorter[MSFT]
|>> |>>
|>> |>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
|>> rights
|>> |>
|>> |>Hi Darrell.
|>> |>
|>> |>Why would the volume license media not be bootable?
|>> |>
|>
|>
|>
|>--
|>Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
|>http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html
|>
|>"Good poets borrow; great poets steal."
|>- T. S. Eliot
|>
 
C

Chad Harris

Darrell--

That's good
"Correct. Retail and upgrade media should be the same. The product key
detemines the behavior..
Both are bootable, both contain WinRE. You can boot to the Upgrade DVD and
get to WinRE to use the repair functionality."

But..what possible reason could there be for this crazy inconsistency if
it's true? If I understand this correctly, if it's not bootable, then
people who buy upgrade media via volume licensing are not able to access the
Win RE recovery tools. What possible logic could there be in this?

"The only media that may not be bootable is the Volume License Upgrade
Media. ( I don't have a copy of that media to test whether it's bootable or
not, but I have been told that Volume License Upgrade media is not supposed
to be bootable)"

Okay. Having read the rest of the thread I assume then that the solution is
to request full media in that situation. I hope that's correct.

"Hello,
Why? when you can request the full media instead?
Since Volume License Upgrade is not bootable, your options are limited, so
just request full media.
Thanks,
Darrell Gorter[MSFT]"

And you've clarified that if you aren't in the volume license scenario with
upgraded media that upgrade media is bootable and Win RE equipped.

There is a real need for someone appropriate on one of your teams, or a
writer on one of your teams to write a comprehensive FAQ or article on
upgrade scenarios and put it in an easily located place on MSFT's site or to
supplement the current vague Upgrade section on the Vista MSKB below:

How to install Windows Vista (See upgrade section of this MSKB)
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/918884/en-us

MSFT's Current Upgrade to Vista Page:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/buyorupgrade/upgradepaths.mspx

Thanks very much,

CH

"Darrell Gorter[MSFT]" said:
Hello,
Correct. Retail and upgrade media should be the same. The product key
detemines the behavior..
Both are bootable, both contain WinRE. You can boot to the Upgrade DVD
and
get to WinRE to use the repair functionality
The only media that may not be bootable is the Volume License Upgrade
Media. ( I don't have a copy of that media to test whether it's bootable
or
not, but I have been told that Volume License Upgrade media is not
supposed
to be bootable)

Thanks,
Darrell Gorter[MSFT]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights
--------------------
|>From: "Colin Barnhorst" <[email protected]>
|>References: <[email protected]>
<#9bp#[email protected]>
|>In-Reply-To: <#9bp#[email protected]>
|>Subject: Re: How MSFT has blocked your repairing Vista--if No DVD or
Upgrade DVD
|>Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 19:43:37 -0700
|>Lines: 263
|>MIME-Version: 1.0
|>Content-Type: text/plain;
|> format=flowed;
|> charset="iso-8859-1";
|> reply-type=response
|>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|>X-Priority: 3
|>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
|>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16386
|>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16386
|>X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 000708-1, 01/29/2007), Outbound message
|>X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
|>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
|>Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>NNTP-Posting-Host: c-24-9-8-31.hsd1.co.comcast.net 24.9.8.31
|>Path: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl
|>Xref: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl
microsoft.public.windows.vista.general:24923
|>X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>
|>I beleive Darrel told us months ago that WinRE is available when you
boot
a
|>retail dvd no matter what box (upgrade or full) it came out of because
all
|>retail dvd's are exactly the same.
|>
|>"Chad Harris" <fixvista-itneedsit.net> wrote in message
|>|>>
|>> MSFT has blocked your ability to repair Vista in two major ways it
turns
|>> out:
|>>
|>> 1) If you do not get a Vista DVD (Dell says you will from them) when
you
|>> pay $1000-2000 for your new Vista preloaded computer today, tonight or
in
|>> the future you cannot access the repair modalities I describe below
from
|>> Win RE on the Vista DVD or the Windows Repair Environment.
|>>
|>> 2) If you buy an Upgrade DVD.
|>>
|>> See below:
|>>
|>> And with all the excellent upgrade posts here, including Colin
Barnhorst's
|>> I
|>> haven't seen this little issue raised. Suppose that you cannot use
Win
|>> RE's
|>> major components to repair Vista which would be Startup Repair, System
|>> Restore *from Win RE which I find superior to SR using the Volume
Shadow
|>> system adapted from the Windows Server environment, restoring the
boot
|>> sector using the bootsect /nt52 SYS from the Windows Recovery
Environment
|>> discussed in the MSKB directly below
|>>
|>> How to troubleshoot scenarios in which the rollback phase was
unsuccessful
|>> after you upgrade from Windows XP to Windows Vista
|>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927523/en-us
|>>
|>> and something that has not been mentioned that I can tell to date on
this
|>> group or much in the TBT groups:
|>>
|>> How to use the Bootrec.exe tool in the Windows Recovery Environment to
|>> troubleshoot and repair startup issues in Windows Vista
|>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927392/en-us
|>>
|>> Startup Repair can also be used when there is not a problem booting
into
|>> Windows Vista and when it works which is not all the time (you should
|>> repeat
|>> 2-3 times if it does not) fix major broken Vista components:
|>>
|>> A Stop error occurs, or the computer stops responding when you try to
|>> start
|>> Windows Vista
|>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/925810/en-us
|>>
|>> So suppose all these repair modalities used correctly and I emphasize
|>> there
|>> are a minority of times when Startup Repair may need to be tried, i.e.
|>> repeated 2-3 times until it works, and you have this scnario mentioned
by
|>> George Ou on his ZDNET blog this morning (January 29, 2007) in my time
|>> zone:
|>>
|>> (I would think you could avoid a lot of "Geek Squad" money by the way
by
|>> simply searching this group, the setup group and the other MSFT Vista
|>> public
|>> groups using View>Find):
|>>
|>> From George Ou and a point that has not been raised that I can tell on
|>> this
|>> group or the setup group and certainly has not been touched by Jill
|>> Zoeller
|>> or Darrel Gorter who occasionally particpate here from MSFT:
|>>
|>> From:
|>> January 29th, 2007
|>> Vista Upgrade Edition is lame by design
|>>
|>> by George Ou
|>>
|>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=414&tag=nl.e589
|>>
|>>
|>> "These new Vista Upgrade DVDs which I'm assuming have already been
stamped
|>> out will lack the ability to install on a system unless Windows XP or
2000
|>> was present. This means anyone looking to do a fresh install for any
|>> reason
|>> will not be able to. Someone who is doing disaster recovery after a
hard
|>> drive failure or a virus infection won't be able to wipe their hard
drive
|>> and install Vista, they'll have to install XP first and then install
Vista
|>> on top of XP. That could easily mean nearly an hour wasted. If
you're
|>> paying someone to rebuild your computer, this will mean an extra hour
of
|>> labor that will be billed to you for the installation of Windows XP.
Will
|>> Microsoft pick up the extra hour tab from Geek Squad for everyone?"
|>>
|>>
|>> MSFT's current MSKB covering Upgrades and leaving much out:
|>>
|>> How to install Windows Vista (See upgrade section of this MSKB)
|>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/918884/en-us
|>>
|>> MSFT's Current Upgrade to Vista Page:
|>>
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/buyorupgrade/upgradep
aths.mspx
|>>
|>> Extreme Tech's article on Vista Upgrades:
|>>
|>> Upgrade From Windows XP to Vista
|>>
|>> http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2082979,00.asp
|>>
|>> What's the real story with Vista upgrades?
|>>
|>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=189
|>>
|>> Vista Upgrade Edition is lame by design
|>>
|>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=414&tag=nl.e589
|>>
|>> CH
|>>
|>>
|>> "Chad Harris" <fixvista-itneedsit.net> wrote in message
|>> |>>> MSFT's curreng MSKB covering Upgrades and leaving much out:
|>>>
|>>> How to install Windows Vista (See upgrade section of this MSKB)
|>>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/918884/en-us
|>>>
|>>> MSFT's Current Upgrade to Vista Page:
|>>>
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/buyorupgrade/upgradep
aths.mspx
|>>>
|>>> Extreme Tech's article on Vista Upgrades:
|>>>
|>>> Upgrade From Windows XP to Vista
|>>>
|>>> http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2082979,00.asp
|>>>
|>>> What's the real story with Vista upgrades?
|>>>
|>>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=189
|>>>
|>>> Vista Upgrade Edition is lame by design
|>>>
|>>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=414&tag=nl.e589
|>>>
|>>> What's the Real Story With Vista Upgrades?
|>>> Ed Bott
|>>> January 29th, 2007
|>>>
|>>> "A story by Ken Fisher on Ars Technica this morning is raising alarm
|>>> flags. Fisher points to Microsoft Knowledge Base article 930985,
which
|>>> documents a change in the setup process for upgrade versions of
Windows
|>>> Vista. The article's title reads: "You cannot use an upgrade key to
|>>> perform a clean installation of Windows Vista."
|>>>
|>>> Fisher concludes, "[Once] again, Microsoft appears to have made
licensing
|>>> decisions without considering how people actually use their
products."
|>>>
|>>> George Ou calls it "another one of those 'what were you thinking'
moments
|>>> for Microsoft management."
|>>>
|>>> I'm not certain what's actually going on here. The KB article itself
is
|>>> ambiguous. In Microsoft's world, a clean install requires booting
from
|>>> optical media (CD or DVD). Here's Microsoft's definition of a clean
|>>> installation, as contained in an earlier KB article:
|>>>
|>>> A clean installation refers to removing all data from your hard disk
by
|>>> repartitioning and reformatting your hard disk and reinstalling the
|>>> operating system and programs to an empty (clean) hard disk.
|>>>
|>>> So how is the upgrade media going to work? It sounds like it won't be
|>>> bootable, which means that you won't be able to start your PC using
the
|>>> upgrade DVD. Will it include the disk management tools included on a
|>>> retail Vista DVD? Will you be able to install Vista without a product
|>>> key, as you can with a retail DVD? Will you be able to install Vista
to
|>>> its own directory or to an existing disk partition without migrating
|>>> current settings - what most people outside Redmond consider a "clean
|>>> install"?
|>>>
|>>> The answer to all those questions, at this point, is "Nobody knows."
At
|>>> least, nobody outside of Redmond. So far, the only copies of Windows
|>>> Vista that have been distributed to the public and the press have
been
|>>> full retail copies. I have yet to hear from a single source that has
|>>> actually seen one of these upgrade disks and documented the
experience.
|>>> Everything written so far is just speculation until those disks are
in
|>>> customers' hands tomorrow. This may turn out to be a headache, as
|>>> predicted. Or it may turn out to be much ado about nothing.
|>>>
|>>> Stay tuned."
|>>>
|>>>
|>>> Vista Upgrade Edition is lame by design
|>>> George Ou
|>>> January 29, 2007
|>>>
|>>> Arstechnica is reporting that Windows Vista Upgrade edition will not
|>>> permit "clean" installs like all previous versions of Windows Upgrade
|>>> editions. Will Microsoft pick up the extra hour tab from Geek
Squad?This
|>>> is another one of those "what were you thinking" moments for
Microsoft
|>>> management similar to their bone headed decision to lock the retail
|>>> version of Vista to one hardware migration. Microsoft backed out of
|>>> their ridiculous license change after Ed Bott sounded the alarm and
|>>> others picked up on the story. So Vista Upgrade Edition should really
be
|>>> called Vista "Not Clean" "time waster" Edition. [Update 4:10AM - A
|>>> reader clarifies that you can technically do a clean install by
telling
|>>> Vista to wipe the hard drive before installing after it confirms a
full
|>>> copy of Windows XP is installed. This however is still lame because
you
|>>> can't just install Vista on a freshly formatted hard drive and it
will
|>>> still be a huge time waster.]
|>>>
|>>> In the past, Microsoft has always respected their customer's time and
|>>> allowed upgrade versions of Windows to install on a fresh machine so
long
|>>> as the customer could provide proof of possession of the old
software.
|>>> These new Vista Upgrade DVDs which I'm assuming have already been
stamped
|>>> out will lack the ability to install on a system unless Windows XP or
|>>> 2000 was present. This means anyone looking to do a fresh install
for
|>>> any reason will not be able to. Someone who is doing disaster
recovery
|>>> after a hard drive failure or a virus infection won't be able to wipe
|>>> their hard drive and install Vista, they'll have to install XP first
and
|>>> then install Vista on top of XP. That could easily mean nearly an
hour
|>>> wasted. If you're paying someone to rebuild your computer, this will
|>>> mean an extra hour of labor that will be billed to you for the
|>>> installation of Windows XP. Will Microsoft pick up the extra hour
tab
|>>> from Geek Squad for everyone?
|>>>
|>>> Some might just say tough; you don't have to buy Windows Vista
Upgrade
|>>> Edition if you don't like the terms of the agreement. But the
problem
is
|>>> that there are probably already millions of people who bought in to
the
|>>> promise of Vista upgrade coupons during this last holiday shopping
season
|>>> with their new computers or their copy of Windows XP and they weren't
|>>> told that the upgrade terms have been changed. The Vista Upgrade
coupons
|>>> were used to lure people in to buying brand new computers for the
holiday
|>>> 2006 shopping season when many people would have probably opted to
wait
|>>> until after Vista launches at the end of January had they known about
|>>> these new restrictions. Now these people are going to be in for a
big
|>>> shock after they wipe their computers and find out that their copy of
|>>> Vista won't install without XP on the computer.
|>>>
|>>> So why is Microsoft making a bone headed decision like this? One
|>>> possibility is that Microsoft is afraid that people might try to keep
|>>> running XP or Media Center on their existing machines and use Vista
on
a
|>>> new computer. This would mean that Microsoft would be giving away
two
|>>> copies of Windows for the price of one. While I realize that a
company
|>>> has to make money off of a commercial Operating System, surely
Microsoft
|>>> could have worked out a better arrangement. Why not ask people to
turn
|>>> in their old Windows XP serial number when they get their Full Vista
DVD
|>>> and then blacklist that serial number from Windows Genuine Advantage.
|>>> This would be a fair free trade-up from Windows XP to Windows Vista
and
|>>> no one should expect to get two versions of Windows for the price of
one.
|>>>
|>>> But it could be too late for Microsoft to avoid a backlash because
Vista
|>>> is launching at the end of today and all those copies of Vista
Upgrade
|>>> with no way to do clean installs have probably already been
manufactured.
|>>> If Microsoft wants to set things right for people who want to do
clean
|>>> installs of Windows Vista especially those who bought in to the
promise
|>>> of Vista coupons during this last holiday season, Microsoft should
allow
|>>> these people to opt for a trade-up to the full version of Vista where
the
|>>> old XP serial number is blacklisted on WGA 30 days after the Vista is
|>>> shipped to them. That would seem to be the least they can do.
|>>>
|>>>
|>>>
|>>> Sould Microsoft allow a full trade-up to Vista?"
|>>>
|>>> January 29th, 2007
|>>>
|>>> CH
|>>
|>
|>
 
C

Chad Harris

Hi Darrell--

"Hello,
Why? when you can request the full media instead?
Since Volume License Upgrade is not bootable, your options are limited, so
just request full media.
Thanks,"

Darrell Gorter[MSFT]

You cannot request full media with a volume license according to Volume
Licesning at MSFT and the web page they referred me to.

We still have an outstanding question on this because I JUST called Volume
Licensing at 1-800-MICROSOFT, and they said the option you mentioned for
full media is not part of their program and referred me to a web page that
confirms this:

http://www.microsoft.com/resources/howtotell/ww/windows/quiz_vol.mspx

They referred me to this statement and confirmed it so I am not sure where
you are hearing that Volume Licensing has an option for full media. Volume
Licensing at MSFT says "clearly that's not the case."

The outstanding question is are volume licensing DVDs bootable since the
Volume License purchaser is getting an upgrade DVD.

I'm also not clear what this phrase you used means exactly and I mean the
one "assumed you have a compliant OS licesnse already."

What is a compliant license and why would there be an assumption that a new
volume licesne purchaser might have any license alreay--what does compliant
mean in this context?

"Hello,
Only the upgrade volume media may not be bootable.
Since all Volume License media is assumed that you have a compliant OS
license already.
The VL licenses are for upgrade media licensing even though you can request
full media, the license is still upgrade.
Thanks,"

Darrell Gorter[MSFT]



Note: It's important to understand that Volume License Agreements do not
cover the full windows operating system; Volume Licensing provides for
Windows OS upgrades only. Customers must first have a qualifying underlying
operating system license before installing Volume License software on their
computers.

So I would appreciate it if you could clarify whether a Volume License DVD
is bootable?

Also can you state that *every upgrade DVD that MSFT sells is bootable*
including anything OEM from MSFT because MSFT does have OEM DVDs--I have
them from XP and Office in prior years--but they are also marked not for
sale.

I'm looking for any scenario where someone who purchases an upgrade DVD from
MSFT cannot boot with it and use Win RE's panoply of tools which I
understand to be these (and the Memory Diagnostic Tool) which can be
accessed to run on the next boot from Vista as well as from the Win RE
environment.

Win RE's major components to repair Vista which would be Startup Repair,
System
Restore *from Win RE which I find superior to SR using the Volume Shadow
system adapted from the Windows Server environment, restoring the boot
sector using the bootsect /nt52 SYS from the Windows Recovery Environment
discussed in the MSKB directly below, and the Memory Diagnostics Tool.

How to troubleshoot scenarios in which the rollback phase was unsuccessful
after you upgrade from Windows XP to Windows Vista
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927523/en-us

and something that has not been mentioned that I can tell to date on this
group or much in the TBT groups:

How to use the Bootrec.exe tool in the Windows Recovery Environment to
troubleshoot and repair startup issues in Windows Vista
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927392/en-us

Startup Repair can also be used when there is not a problem booting into
Windows Vista and when it works which is not all the time (you should repeat
2-3 times if it does not) fix major broken Vista components:

A Stop error occurs, or the computer stops responding when you try to start
Windows Vista
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/925810/en-us

Thank you,

CH



"Darrell Gorter[MSFT]" said:
Hello,
Why? when you can request the full media instead?
Since Volume License Upgrade is not bootable, your options are limited, so
just request full media.
Thanks,
Darrell Gorter[MSFT]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights
--------------------
|>From: Nina DiBoy <[email protected]>
|>Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>Subject: Re: How MSFT has blocked your repairing Vista--if No DVD or
Upgrade
|> DVD
|>Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 12:00:26 -0600
|>Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
|>Lines: 76
|>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
|>References: <[email protected]>
<#9bp#[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
|>NNTP-Posting-Host: D1fZ/3G+2PqNUka41YI5Pw.user.aioe.org
|>Mime-Version: 1.0
|>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
|>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|>X-Complaints-To: (e-mail address removed)
|>In-Reply-To:
|>User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207)
|>Path:
TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTFEEDS01.phx.gbl!newsfeed0
0.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.karotte.org!news2.arglkargh.de!news.cnetm
de!news.motzarella.org!aioe.org!not-for-mail
|>Xref: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl
microsoft.public.windows.vista.general:26482
|>X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>
|>Darrell Gorter[MSFT] wrote:
|>> Hello,
|>> Onl;y the upgrade volume media may not be bootable.
|>> Since all Volume License media is assumed that you have a compliant OS
|>> license already.
|>> The VL licenses are for upgrade media licensing even though you can
request
|>> full media, the license is still upgrade.
|>> Thanks,
|>> Darrell Gorter[MSFT]
|>>
|>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights
|>
|>Is there anyway to use the VL upgrade media/licence to do a full, clean
|>fresh install?
|>
|>> --------------------
|>> |>From: Nina DiBoy <[email protected]>
|>> |>Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>> |>Subject: Re: How MSFT has blocked your repairing Vista--if No DVD or
|>> Upgrade
|>> |> DVD
|>> |>Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 19:13:29 -0600
|>> |>Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
|>> |>Lines: 31
|>> |>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
|>> |>References: <[email protected]>
|>> <#9bp#[email protected]>
|>> <[email protected]>
|>> <[email protected]>
|>> |>NNTP-Posting-Host: rYp1t+S3FYRG/mSujoIWjQ.user.aioe.org
|>> |>Mime-Version: 1.0
|>> |>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
|>> |>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|>> |>X-Complaints-To: (e-mail address removed)
|>> |>In-Reply-To:
|>> |>User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207)
|>> |>Path:
|>>
TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTFEEDS01.phx.gbl!newsfeed0
|>>
0.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newspeer1.de.telia.net!newspeer4.de.telia.net!
|>> de.telia.net!aioe.org!not-for-mail
|>> |>Xref: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl
microsoft.public.windows.vista.general:25906
|>> |>X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>> |>
|>> |>Darrell Gorter[MSFT] wrote:
|>> |>> Hello,
|>> |>> Correct. Retail and upgrade media should be the same. The
product
key
|>> |>> detemines the behavior..
|>> |>> Both are bootable, both contain WinRE. You can boot to the
Upgrade
DVD
|>> and
|>> |>> get to WinRE to use the repair functionality
|>> |>> The only media that may not be bootable is the Volume License
Upgrade
|>> |>> Media. ( I don't have a copy of that media to test whether it's
|>> bootable or
|>> |>> not, but I have been told that Volume License Upgrade media is not
|>> supposed
|>> |>> to be bootable)
|>> |>>
|>> |>> Thanks,
|>> |>> Darrell Gorter[MSFT]
|>> |>>
|>> |>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
no
|>> rights
|>> |>
|>> |>Hi Darrell.
|>> |>
|>> |>Why would the volume license media not be bootable?
|>> |>
|>
|>
|>
|>--
|>Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
|>http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html
|>
|>"Good poets borrow; great poets steal."
|>- T. S. Eliot
|>
 
N

Nina DiBoy

Darrell said:
Hello,
Why? when you can request the full media instead?
Since Volume License Upgrade is not bootable, your options are limited, so
just request full media.
Thanks,
Darrell Gorter[MSFT]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights
--------------------

Thanks Darrell! That'll work for me.
|>From: Nina DiBoy <[email protected]>
|>Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>Subject: Re: How MSFT has blocked your repairing Vista--if No DVD or
Upgrade
|> DVD
|>Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 12:00:26 -0600
|>
|>Darrell Gorter[MSFT] wrote:
|>> Hello,
|>> Onl;y the upgrade volume media may not be bootable.
|>> Since all Volume License media is assumed that you have a compliant OS
|>> license already.
|>> The VL licenses are for upgrade media licensing even though you can
request
|>> full media, the license is still upgrade.
|>> Thanks,
|>> Darrell Gorter[MSFT]
|>>
|>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights
|>
|>Is there anyway to use the VL upgrade media/licence to do a full, clean
|>fresh install?
|>
|>> --------------------
|>> |>From: Nina DiBoy <[email protected]>
|>> |>Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>> |>Subject: Re: How MSFT has blocked your repairing Vista--if No DVD or
|>> Upgrade
|>> |> DVD
|>> |>Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 19:13:29 -0600
|>> |>
|>> |>Darrell Gorter[MSFT] wrote:
|>> |>> Hello,
|>> |>> Correct. Retail and upgrade media should be the same. The product
key
|>> |>> detemines the behavior..
|>> |>> Both are bootable, both contain WinRE. You can boot to the Upgrade
DVD
|>> and
|>> |>> get to WinRE to use the repair functionality
|>> |>> The only media that may not be bootable is the Volume License
Upgrade
|>> |>> Media. ( I don't have a copy of that media to test whether it's
|>> bootable or
|>> |>> not, but I have been told that Volume License Upgrade media is not
|>> supposed
|>> |>> to be bootable)
|>> |>>
|>> |>> Thanks,
|>> |>> Darrell Gorter[MSFT]
|>> |>>
|>> |>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
|>> rights
|>> |>
|>> |>Hi Darrell.
|>> |>
|>> |>Why would the volume license media not be bootable?

--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

Most recent idiotic quote added to KICK (Klassic Idiotic Caption Kooks):
"Nope. Just CLUELESS CUNTS LIKE YOU too stupid to work it out. Thank
the bittorent brigade."

"Good poets borrow; great poets steal."
- T. S. Eliot
 
C

Chad Harris

Nina--

Ain't no way you can request "full media" as Darrell Says. Volume licensing
at MSFT sad they absolutely don't allow it, and they also pointed me to a
website that emphasizes that.

The question still remains--is upgrade media which is the *only media volume
licensing ships, bootable. Darrell indicated it "may" not be, and Volume
Licensing doesn't have a clue about that.

1-800-MICROSOFT ("We don't know if our media boots or not.")

http://www.microsoft.com/resources/howtotell/ww/windows/quiz_vol.mspx

Volume licensing referred me to this paragraph:

Note: It's important to understand that Volume License Agreements do not
cover the full windows operating system; Volume Licensing provides for
Windows OS upgrades only. Customers must first have a qualifying underlying
operating system license before installing Volume License software on their
computers.

I have no idea from where Darrell Gorter [MSFT] pulled the idea you have the
option for a full OS with volume licensing or why he doesn't clear up
whether you can boot from the upgrade DVD or not.

The point is to find out for me if all their upgrade DVDs are bootable or
just some of them, and if they are equipped with Win RE. Why they all
wouldn't be bootable is a good question.

CH


Nina DiBoy said:
Darrell said:
Hello,
Why? when you can request the full media instead?
Since Volume License Upgrade is not bootable, your options are limited,
so just request full media.
Thanks,
Darrell Gorter[MSFT]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights
--------------------

Thanks Darrell! That'll work for me.
|>From: Nina DiBoy <[email protected]>
|>Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>Subject: Re: How MSFT has blocked your repairing Vista--if No DVD or
Upgrade
|> DVD
|>Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 12:00:26 -0600
|>
|>Darrell Gorter[MSFT] wrote:
|>> Hello,
|>> Onl;y the upgrade volume media may not be bootable.
|>> Since all Volume License media is assumed that you have a compliant
OS |>> license already.
|>> The VL licenses are for upgrade media licensing even though you can
request |>> full media, the license is still upgrade.
|>> Thanks,
|>> Darrell Gorter[MSFT]
|>> |>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
no rights
|>
|>Is there anyway to use the VL upgrade media/licence to do a full, clean
|>fresh install?
|>
|>> --------------------
|>> |>From: Nina DiBoy <[email protected]>
|>> |>Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>> |>Subject: Re: How MSFT has blocked your repairing Vista--if No DVD
or |>> Upgrade
|>> |> DVD
|>> |>Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 19:13:29 -0600
|>> |>
|>> |>Darrell Gorter[MSFT] wrote:
|>> |>> Hello,
|>> |>> Correct. Retail and upgrade media should be the same. The
product key |>> |>> detemines the behavior..
|>> |>> Both are bootable, both contain WinRE. You can boot to the
Upgrade DVD |>> and |>> |>> get to WinRE to use the repair functionality
|>> |>> The only media that may not be bootable is the Volume License
Upgrade |>> |>> Media. ( I don't have a copy of that media to test
whether it's |>> bootable or |>> |>> not, but I have been told that
Volume License Upgrade media is not |>> supposed |>> |>> to be bootable)
|>> |>> |>> |>> Thanks,
|>> |>> Darrell Gorter[MSFT]
|>> |>> |>> |>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and
confers no |>> rights |>> |>
|>> |>Hi Darrell.
|>> |>
|>> |>Why would the volume license media not be bootable?

--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

Most recent idiotic quote added to KICK (Klassic Idiotic Caption Kooks):
"Nope. Just CLUELESS CUNTS LIKE YOU too stupid to work it out. Thank the
bittorent brigade."

"Good poets borrow; great poets steal."
- T. S. Eliot
 
C

Chad Harris

Darrell --

where did you get the idea that you "can request the full media". It's not
an option at all according to Volume Licensing MSFT at 1-800-MICROSOFT or
here

http://www.microsoft.com/resources/howtotell/ww/windows/quiz_vol.mspx

They referred me to this paragraph:

Note: It's important to understand that Volume License Agreements do not
cover the full windows operating system; Volume Licensing provides for
Windows OS upgrades only. Customers must first have a qualifying underlying
operating system license before installing Volume License software on their
computers.

Thanks,

CH

"Darrell Gorter[MSFT]" said:
Hello,
Why? when you can request the full media instead?
Since Volume License Upgrade is not bootable, your options are limited, so
just request full media.
Thanks,
Darrell Gorter[MSFT]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights
--------------------
|>From: Nina DiBoy <[email protected]>
|>Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>Subject: Re: How MSFT has blocked your repairing Vista--if No DVD or
Upgrade
|> DVD
|>Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 12:00:26 -0600
|>Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
|>Lines: 76
|>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
|>References: <[email protected]>
<#9bp#[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
|>NNTP-Posting-Host: D1fZ/3G+2PqNUka41YI5Pw.user.aioe.org
|>Mime-Version: 1.0
|>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
|>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|>X-Complaints-To: (e-mail address removed)
|>In-Reply-To:
|>User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207)
|>Path:
TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTFEEDS01.phx.gbl!newsfeed0
0.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.karotte.org!news2.arglkargh.de!news.cnetm
de!news.motzarella.org!aioe.org!not-for-mail
|>Xref: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl
microsoft.public.windows.vista.general:26482
|>X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>
|>Darrell Gorter[MSFT] wrote:
|>> Hello,
|>> Onl;y the upgrade volume media may not be bootable.
|>> Since all Volume License media is assumed that you have a compliant OS
|>> license already.
|>> The VL licenses are for upgrade media licensing even though you can
request
|>> full media, the license is still upgrade.
|>> Thanks,
|>> Darrell Gorter[MSFT]
|>>
|>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights
|>
|>Is there anyway to use the VL upgrade media/licence to do a full, clean
|>fresh install?
|>
|>> --------------------
|>> |>From: Nina DiBoy <[email protected]>
|>> |>Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>> |>Subject: Re: How MSFT has blocked your repairing Vista--if No DVD or
|>> Upgrade
|>> |> DVD
|>> |>Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 19:13:29 -0600
|>> |>Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
|>> |>Lines: 31
|>> |>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
|>> |>References: <[email protected]>
|>> <#9bp#[email protected]>
|>> <[email protected]>
|>> <[email protected]>
|>> |>NNTP-Posting-Host: rYp1t+S3FYRG/mSujoIWjQ.user.aioe.org
|>> |>Mime-Version: 1.0
|>> |>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
|>> |>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|>> |>X-Complaints-To: (e-mail address removed)
|>> |>In-Reply-To:
|>> |>User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207)
|>> |>Path:
|>>
TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTFEEDS01.phx.gbl!newsfeed0
|>>
0.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newspeer1.de.telia.net!newspeer4.de.telia.net!
|>> de.telia.net!aioe.org!not-for-mail
|>> |>Xref: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl
microsoft.public.windows.vista.general:25906
|>> |>X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>> |>
|>> |>Darrell Gorter[MSFT] wrote:
|>> |>> Hello,
|>> |>> Correct. Retail and upgrade media should be the same. The
product
key
|>> |>> detemines the behavior..
|>> |>> Both are bootable, both contain WinRE. You can boot to the
Upgrade
DVD
|>> and
|>> |>> get to WinRE to use the repair functionality
|>> |>> The only media that may not be bootable is the Volume License
Upgrade
|>> |>> Media. ( I don't have a copy of that media to test whether it's
|>> bootable or
|>> |>> not, but I have been told that Volume License Upgrade media is not
|>> supposed
|>> |>> to be bootable)
|>> |>>
|>> |>> Thanks,
|>> |>> Darrell Gorter[MSFT]
|>> |>>
|>> |>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
no
|>> rights
|>> |>
|>> |>Hi Darrell.
|>> |>
|>> |>Why would the volume license media not be bootable?
|>> |>
|>
|>
|>
|>--
|>Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
|>http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html
|>
|>"Good poets borrow; great poets steal."
|>- T. S. Eliot
|>
 
D

Darrell Gorter[MSFT]

Hello Chad,
That page is not talking about the media availability specifically.That is
talking about the license.

The license for volume programs is for upgrade ( which means that you need
to have a qualifying OS which would meet the compliance for upgrade
scenarios(compliance checks). this should be in the license agreement,
what Windows versions would meet the requirement.).
You are not required to do an upgrade, You are not required to have the
previous version of Windows installed. You are required to have a license
for the previous versions of Windows.
Some of the people posting in the newsgroups since November have posted the
names to the downloads that were available from their VL programs.
In each case they listed both the upgrade and full version names as
available for download. ( x64 volume is only available as a non-upgrade
option)
So I had to ask around and got to borrow an upgrade volume license DVD,so
as to confirm it is not bootable. This is only Volume upgrade media, all
other Windows upgrade media should be bootable.
however I also confirmed that the all the volume license programs have full
prodcut media available as an option as well. Either for download or you
can order a DVD. The default DVD shipped out is the Upgrade Volume Media.

Thanks,
Darrell Gorter[MSFT]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights
--------------------
|>Reply-To: "Chad Harris" <youfixingorjiving.net>
|>From: "Chad Harris" <fixvista-itneedsit.net>
|>References: <[email protected]>
<#9bp#[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]> <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
|>In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
|>Subject: Re: VL has ***no option for full media***--and is it bootable?
|>Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 11:22:43 -0500
|>Lines: 228
|>MIME-Version: 1.0
|>Content-Type: text/plain;
|> format=flowed;
|> charset="Windows-1252";
|> reply-type=original
|>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|>X-Priority: 3
|>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
|>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16386
|>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16386
|>Message-ID: <#[email protected]>
|>Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>NNTP-Posting-Host: c-76-17-117-134.hsd1.ga.comcast.net 76.17.117.134
|>Path: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl
|>Xref: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl microsoft.public.windows.vista.general:27368
|>X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>
|>Hi Darrell--
|>
|>"Hello,
|>Why? when you can request the full media instead?
|>Since Volume License Upgrade is not bootable, your options are limited, so
|>just request full media.
|>Thanks,"
|>
|>Darrell Gorter[MSFT]
|>
|>You cannot request full media with a volume license according to Volume
|>Licesning at MSFT and the web page they referred me to.
|>
|>We still have an outstanding question on this because I JUST called
Volume
|>Licensing at 1-800-MICROSOFT, and they said the option you mentioned for
|>full media is not part of their program and referred me to a web page
that
|>confirms this:
|>
|>http://www.microsoft.com/resources/howtotell/ww/windows/quiz_vol.mspx
|>
|>They referred me to this statement and confirmed it so I am not sure
where
|>you are hearing that Volume Licensing has an option for full media.
Volume
|>Licensing at MSFT says "clearly that's not the case."
|>
|>The outstanding question is are volume licensing DVDs bootable since the
|>Volume License purchaser is getting an upgrade DVD.
|>
|>I'm also not clear what this phrase you used means exactly and I mean the
|>one "assumed you have a compliant OS licesnse already."
|>
|>What is a compliant license and why would there be an assumption that a
new
|>volume licesne purchaser might have any license alreay--what does
compliant
|>mean in this context?
|>
|>"Hello,
|>Only the upgrade volume media may not be bootable.
|>Since all Volume License media is assumed that you have a compliant OS
|>license already.
|>The VL licenses are for upgrade media licensing even though you can
request
|>full media, the license is still upgrade.
|>Thanks,"
|>
|>Darrell Gorter[MSFT]
|>
|>
|>
|>Note: It's important to understand that Volume License Agreements do not
|>cover the full windows operating system; Volume Licensing provides for
|>Windows OS upgrades only. Customers must first have a qualifying
underlying
|>operating system license before installing Volume License software on
their
|>computers.
|>
|>So I would appreciate it if you could clarify whether a Volume License
DVD
|>is bootable?
|>
|>Also can you state that *every upgrade DVD that MSFT sells is bootable*
|>including anything OEM from MSFT because MSFT does have OEM DVDs--I have
|>them from XP and Office in prior years--but they are also marked not for
|>sale.
|>
|>I'm looking for any scenario where someone who purchases an upgrade DVD
from
|>MSFT cannot boot with it and use Win RE's panoply of tools which I
|>understand to be these (and the Memory Diagnostic Tool) which can be
|>accessed to run on the next boot from Vista as well as from the Win RE
|>environment.
|>
|>Win RE's major components to repair Vista which would be Startup Repair,
|>System
|>Restore *from Win RE which I find superior to SR using the Volume Shadow
|>system adapted from the Windows Server environment, restoring the boot
|>sector using the bootsect /nt52 SYS from the Windows Recovery Environment
|>discussed in the MSKB directly below, and the Memory Diagnostics Tool.
|>
|>How to troubleshoot scenarios in which the rollback phase was unsuccessful
|>after you upgrade from Windows XP to Windows Vista
|>http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927523/en-us
|>
|>and something that has not been mentioned that I can tell to date on this
|>group or much in the TBT groups:
|>
|>How to use the Bootrec.exe tool in the Windows Recovery Environment to
|>troubleshoot and repair startup issues in Windows Vista
|>http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927392/en-us
|>
|>Startup Repair can also be used when there is not a problem booting into
|>Windows Vista and when it works which is not all the time (you should
repeat
|>2-3 times if it does not) fix major broken Vista components:
|>
|>A Stop error occurs, or the computer stops responding when you try to
start
|>Windows Vista
|>http://support.microsoft.com/kb/925810/en-us
|>
|>Thank you,
|>
|>CH
|>
|>
|>
|>|>> Hello,
|>> Why? when you can request the full media instead?
|>> Since Volume License Upgrade is not bootable, your options are limited,
so
|>> just request full media.
|>> Thanks,
|>> Darrell Gorter[MSFT]
|>>
|>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights
|>> --------------------
|>> |>From: Nina DiBoy <[email protected]>
|>> |>Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>> |>Subject: Re: How MSFT has blocked your repairing Vista--if No DVD or
|>> Upgrade
|>> |> DVD
|>> |>Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 12:00:26 -0600
|>> |>Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
|>> |>Lines: 76
|>> |>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
|>> |>References: <[email protected]>
|>> <#9bp#[email protected]>
|>> <[email protected]>
|>> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
|>> <[email protected]>
|>> |>NNTP-Posting-Host: D1fZ/3G+2PqNUka41YI5Pw.user.aioe.org
|>> |>Mime-Version: 1.0
|>> |>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
|>> |>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|>> |>X-Complaints-To: (e-mail address removed)
|>> |>In-Reply-To:
|>> |>User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207)
|>> |>Path:
|>>
TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTFEEDS01.phx.gbl!newsfeed0
|>>
0.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.karotte.org!news2.arglkargh.de!news.cnetm
|>> de!news.motzarella.org!aioe.org!not-for-mail
|>> |>Xref: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl
|>> microsoft.public.windows.vista.general:26482
|>> |>X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>> |>
|>> |>Darrell Gorter[MSFT] wrote:
|>> |>> Hello,
|>> |>> Onl;y the upgrade volume media may not be bootable.
|>> |>> Since all Volume License media is assumed that you have a compliant
OS
|>> |>> license already.
|>> |>> The VL licenses are for upgrade media licensing even though you can
|>> request
|>> |>> full media, the license is still upgrade.
|>> |>> Thanks,
|>> |>> Darrell Gorter[MSFT]
|>> |>>
|>> |>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
|>> rights
|>> |>
|>> |>Is there anyway to use the VL upgrade media/licence to do a full,
clean
|>> |>fresh install?
|>> |>
|>> |>> --------------------
|>> |>> |>From: Nina DiBoy <[email protected]>
|>> |>> |>Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>> |>> |>Subject: Re: How MSFT has blocked your repairing Vista--if No DVD
or
|>> |>> Upgrade
|>> |>> |> DVD
|>> |>> |>Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 19:13:29 -0600
|>> |>> |>Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
|>> |>> |>Lines: 31
|>> |>> |>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
|>> |>> |>References: <[email protected]>
|>> |>> <#9bp#[email protected]>
|>> |>> <[email protected]>
|>> |>> <[email protected]>
|>> |>> |>NNTP-Posting-Host: rYp1t+S3FYRG/mSujoIWjQ.user.aioe.org
|>> |>> |>Mime-Version: 1.0
|>> |>> |>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
|>> |>> |>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|>> |>> |>X-Complaints-To: (e-mail address removed)
|>> |>> |>In-Reply-To:
|>> |>> |>User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207)
|>> |>> |>Path:
|>> |>>
|>>
TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTFEEDS01.phx.gbl!newsfeed0
|>> |>>
|>>
0.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newspeer1.de.telia.net!newspeer4.de.telia.net!
|>> |>> de.telia.net!aioe.org!not-for-mail
|>> |>> |>Xref: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl
|>> microsoft.public.windows.vista.general:25906
|>> |>> |>X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>> |>> |>
|>> |>> |>Darrell Gorter[MSFT] wrote:
|>> |>> |>> Hello,
|>> |>> |>> Correct. Retail and upgrade media should be the same. The
|>> product
|>> key
|>> |>> |>> detemines the behavior..
|>> |>> |>> Both are bootable, both contain WinRE. You can boot to the
|>> Upgrade
|>> DVD
|>> |>> and
|>> |>> |>> get to WinRE to use the repair functionality
|>> |>> |>> The only media that may not be bootable is the Volume License
|>> Upgrade
|>> |>> |>> Media. ( I don't have a copy of that media to test whether it's
|>> |>> bootable or
|>> |>> |>> not, but I have been told that Volume License Upgrade media is
not
|>> |>> supposed
|>> |>> |>> to be bootable)
|>> |>> |>>
|>> |>> |>> Thanks,
|>> |>> |>> Darrell Gorter[MSFT]
|>> |>> |>>
|>> |>> |>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and
confers
|>> no
|>> |>> rights
|>> |>> |>
|>> |>> |>Hi Darrell.
|>> |>> |>
|>> |>> |>Why would the volume license media not be bootable?
|>> |>> |>
|>> |>
|>> |>
|>> |>
|>> |>--
|>> |>Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
|>> |>http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html
|>> |>
|>> |>"Good poets borrow; great poets steal."
|>> |>- T. S. Eliot
|>> |>
|>>
|>
|>
 
N

Nina DiBoy

Chad said:
Nina--

Ain't no way you can request "full media" as Darrell Says. Volume licensing
at MSFT sad they absolutely don't allow it, and they also pointed me to a
website that emphasizes that.

The question still remains--is upgrade media which is the *only media volume
licensing ships, bootable. Darrell indicated it "may" not be, and Volume
Licensing doesn't have a clue about that.

1-800-MICROSOFT ("We don't know if our media boots or not.")

http://www.microsoft.com/resources/howtotell/ww/windows/quiz_vol.mspx

Volume licensing referred me to this paragraph:

Note: It's important to understand that Volume License Agreements do not
cover the full windows operating system; Volume Licensing provides for
Windows OS upgrades only. Customers must first have a qualifying underlying
operating system license before installing Volume License software on their
computers.

I have no idea from where Darrell Gorter [MSFT] pulled the idea you have the
option for a full OS with volume licensing or why he doesn't clear up
whether you can boot from the upgrade DVD or not.

The point is to find out for me if all their upgrade DVDs are bootable or
just some of them, and if they are equipped with Win RE. Why they all
wouldn't be bootable is a good question.

CH

Hi Chad.

I understand what you are saying, but I'm not quite willing to give up
the ghost on this one yet.

At the following link, it says that you can order bootable media through
your Volume license portal

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/windowsvista/plan/volact1.mspx

(scroll about a quarter of the way down the page to "media
considerations" quoted below)

Media Considerations

Volume License Product Use Rights require that you have a previous
qualifying operating system license for each copy of Windows Vista you
deploy. The default 32-bit Volume License media are upgrade-only and are
not bootable (64-bit Volume License media are not restricted in this
way, since there is no supported upgrade path). You must first boot a
previous version of Windows and then run the setup to install Windows
Vista. Bootable media is also available on request through your Volume
License portal.

Some MSFT employees say you can, some MS webpages say you can, some
employees say you can't, some MS webpages say you can't. I say MS
should get up off their lazy arses and give us a clear answer. I get
vista dvds thru Technet plus at work, and they all boot. Are they
retail versions or VLM?

Darrell or anyone else from MSFT, would you please either provide a
clear answer or direct these questions to someone at MS who can?
Nina DiBoy said:
Darrell said:
Hello,
Why? when you can request the full media instead?
Since Volume License Upgrade is not bootable, your options are limited,
so just request full media.
Thanks,
Darrell Gorter[MSFT]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights
--------------------
Thanks Darrell! That'll work for me.
|>From: Nina DiBoy <[email protected]>
|>Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>Subject: Re: How MSFT has blocked your repairing Vista--if No DVD or
Upgrade
|> DVD
|>Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 12:00:26 -0600
|>
|>Darrell Gorter[MSFT] wrote:
|>> Hello,
|>> Onl;y the upgrade volume media may not be bootable.
|>> Since all Volume License media is assumed that you have a compliant
OS |>> license already.
|>> The VL licenses are for upgrade media licensing even though you can
request |>> full media, the license is still upgrade.
|>> Thanks,
|>> Darrell Gorter[MSFT]
|>> |>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
no rights
|>
|>Is there anyway to use the VL upgrade media/licence to do a full, clean
|>fresh install?
|>
|>> --------------------
|>> |>From: Nina DiBoy <[email protected]>
|>> |>Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>> |>Subject: Re: How MSFT has blocked your repairing Vista--if No DVD
or |>> Upgrade
|>> |> DVD
|>> |>Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 19:13:29 -0600
|>> |>
|>> |>Darrell Gorter[MSFT] wrote:
|>> |>> Hello,
|>> |>> Correct. Retail and upgrade media should be the same. The
product key |>> |>> detemines the behavior..
|>> |>> Both are bootable, both contain WinRE. You can boot to the
Upgrade DVD |>> and |>> |>> get to WinRE to use the repair functionality
|>> |>> The only media that may not be bootable is the Volume License
Upgrade |>> |>> Media. ( I don't have a copy of that media to test
whether it's |>> bootable or |>> |>> not, but I have been told that
Volume License Upgrade media is not |>> supposed |>> |>> to be bootable)
|>> |>> |>> |>> Thanks,
|>> |>> Darrell Gorter[MSFT]
|>> |>> |>> |>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and
confers no |>> rights |>> |>
|>> |>Hi Darrell.
|>> |>
|>> |>Why would the volume license media not be bootable?




--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

Most recent idiotic quote added to KICK (Klassic Idiotic Caption Kooks):
"Nope. Just CLUELESS CUNTS LIKE YOU too stupid to work it out. Thank
the bittorent brigade."

"Good poets borrow; great poets steal."
- T. S. Eliot
 
N

Nina DiBoy

Nina said:
I understand what you are saying, but I'm not quite willing to give up
the ghost on this one yet.

At the following link, it says that you can order bootable media through
your Volume license portal

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/windowsvista/plan/volact1.mspx

(scroll about a quarter of the way down the page to "media
considerations" quoted below)

Media Considerations

Volume License Product Use Rights require that you have a previous
qualifying operating system license for each copy of Windows Vista you
deploy. The default 32-bit Volume License media are upgrade-only and are
not bootable (64-bit Volume License media are not restricted in this
way, since there is no supported upgrade path). You must first boot a
previous version of Windows and then run the setup to install Windows
Vista. Bootable media is also available on request through your Volume
License portal.

Some MSFT employees say you can, some MS webpages say you can, some
employees say you can't, some MS webpages say you can't. I say MS
should get up off their lazy arses and give us a clear answer. I get
vista dvds thru Technet plus at work, and they all boot. Are they
retail versions or VLM?

Darrell or anyone else from MSFT, would you please either provide a
clear answer or direct these questions to someone at MS who can?

OK, disregard the above post, I have caught up now and I get it. But I
agree with Michael and Chad that there should have been a clear and
precise answer about this the first time it was asked. Thanks to all
who answered.


--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

Most recent idiotic quote added to KICK (Klassic Idiotic Caption Kooks):
"Nope. Just CLUELESS CUNTS LIKE YOU too stupid to work it out. Thank
the bittorent brigade."

"Good poets borrow; great poets steal."
- T. S. Eliot
 

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