Drive Image destroyed partition

[Terry Pinnell]

I'd appreciate a bit of urgent hand-holding please. It's been two
years since the first time I used Drive Image 2002. Nor do I have a
confident grasp of partition management anyway.

I have 2 identical Maxtor '60 GB' HDs on this Windows XP Home PC. Up
until last night they each had 2 similar partitions:
Disk 1
C: system 11.72 GB
D: Data etc 44.14 GB

Disk 2
E: 2 year old copy of system 11.72 GB
F: Routine backup etc 44.14 GB

Last night, after some basic house-keeping, and making 2 'Drive Image
Rescue diskettes', I ran DI 2002, using Copy Drives (note, not making
an 'image'). I accepted the default, presumably set as I left it 2
years ago, to copy C to E. (My aim was to get this alternative XP
system up to date, in case I ever have to boot into it.) FWIW, I did
change a couple of the settings:
'Check for file system errors' YES
Verify Disk writes YES

Anyway, it all seemed to go as planned at first. DI 2002 asked to
reboot, then started work in 'Caldera DOS', steadily indexing then
copying. But then, after an hour or two, with some 2 or 3 GB copied,
it just stopped unceremoniously, no messages, and my PC rebooted.

The system could not then find E. My PC didn't recognise its
existence.

I repeated the exercise in DI, except this time DI was copying C to
'Unallocated space on HD 2', or something like that. I got the same
result - an unceremonious reboot.

So that entire partition is now zapped ;-(
If I now use DI Drive Operations, this is what I see:

http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Images/DriveImage1.gif

Any suggestions on what next to try to get a working E: 'system 2'
partition back would be greatly welcomed please! I'm very nervous of
making matters worse. Could I use the rescue diskettes? Or must I face
it that E is gone for good? In which case, how can I *confidently*
make a new E? I feel very exposed to losing my entire system if DI can
destroy a partition with such apparent ease.

FWIW, I do also have Partition Magic 7.0, with which I'm equally
inexperienced.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated please. I may post this to a
couple of other groups too.

 

[Terry Pinnell]

Some more potentially significant information has turned up. I had
decided that my next step would be to use DI 2002 to make an image of
C. I did some housekeeping again, such as Run chkdsk c: /f, and using
Startup Cop to remove all my many startup programs/processes. I ran DI
and started the image from C to D (both on Disk 1). All was going
smoothly, as before, but then it stopped. This time however I got a
message: "Error #48 Sector Not Found"

Further research turned up several users reporting that this error
arose even though they had done a thorough CHKDSK run. However, I will
repeat my CHKDSK and try again. Must say I'm still very nervous!

 

[John .]

Some more potentially significant information has turned up. I had
decided that my next step would be to use DI 2002 to make an image of
C. I did some housekeeping again, such as Run chkdsk c: /f, and using
Startup Cop to remove all my many startup programs/processes. I ran DI
and started the image from C to D (both on Disk 1). All was going
smoothly, as before, but then it stopped. This time however I got a
message: "Error #48 Sector Not Found"

Further research turned up several users reporting that this error
arose even though they had done a thorough CHKDSK run. However, I will
repeat my CHKDSK and try again. Must say I'm still very nervous!

The Drive Image "copy disk" function is usually used to copy an
existing partition to a new blank disk drive. That is why DI wants to
copy to an unused part of Disk2.

If e: was just DI backup images, then the simplest solution I believe
is to use the XP Disk Management function to create e: on Disk 2, then
format e:. Then you can you use DI to create a normal image from c:
to e:.

If e: contained other data and you want to recover that data, then you
need other data recovery software to attempt that.

Also, the rescue diskettes have all the functions of the Windows
version. You can boot from those 2 diskettes and run DI that way if
you want.

 

[Terry Pinnell]

The Drive Image "copy disk" function is usually used to copy an
existing partition to a new blank disk drive. That is why DI wants to
copy to an unused part of Disk2.

If e: was just DI backup images, then the simplest solution I believe
is to use the XP Disk Management function to create e: on Disk 2, then
format e:. Then you can you use DI to create a normal image from c:
to e:.

If e: contained other data and you want to recover that data, then you
need other data recovery software to attempt that.

Also, the rescue diskettes have all the functions of the Windows
version. You can boot from those 2 diskettes and run DI that way if
you want.

Thanks John. But as I explained, E is meant to be a copy of C, my
system partition, allowing me to boot into it during the XP boot-up
process as an alternative to C. They appear as
'Windows XP Home Edition'
'Windows XP Home Edition #1'

An image wouldn't achieve that.

When I did it initially, two years ago, I'm pretty sure I created the
two partitions, E and F, on my new hard disk, and then used Copy Drive
to copy C to E. That's what I'm attempting again now.

-------

Yesterday I made some progress. But I still have some
worries. The devil is in the details, so I'll explain fully.

I started by recovering my E partition, which I managed
more simply than I expected, just using XP Computer Management>Disk
Management.

Then, because of that bad sector message, I ran
chkdsk c: /r
as I'd realised that previously I'd not checked the sectors. I was
encouraged that it found a bad sector: "Windows replaced bad clusters
in file 10904 of name windows/system32/glmf32.dll"

I then meant to do a similar chkdsk /r on e:, but carelessly repeated
it on c:. As there appeared to be no Cancel option, I sat through it
again. But I was surprised to see that identical message appear again.
Is that because XP doesn't actually *repair* the sector or cluster,
but just sort of fixes the index or whatever?

Anyway, I then tried to repeat my drive copy of C to E with DI 2002.
But this time, although both C and E were apparently identical sizes
of 11.72 GB, I noticed that it said the destination was too small.
Presumably by a whisker?

So then I ran PM 7 and nervously moved E and F around, and marginally
increased E's size. That ran 9 'operations' and took about 3 hours!

But now I am very confused by the display I see in PM:
http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Misc/PM-AfterChanges.gif

For one thing, I don't recall previously seeing anything about an
'Extended' partition before the changes, although I could be mistaken.
Is this an error on my part? Can I get rid of this Extended partition,
which just adds another level complexity as far as I'm concerned?

But more important, the sizes shown do not square with what I get from
XP Disk Management:
http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Misc/XPDiskMgmt.gif

That shows E as only 11.83 GB, not 12.11 GB.

Any further help would be greatly appreciated please, as I am *very*
uncomfortable with all this stuff.

 

[Terry Pinnell]

The Drive Image "copy disk" function is usually used to copy an
existing partition to a new blank disk drive. That is why DI wants to
copy to an unused part of Disk2.

Since my reply earlier today, I think the penny is finally beginning
to drop here! It's as you say: DI apparently won't let me copy 'into'
an empty partition. My intuition said it obviously would, but clearly
it won't, for whatever reason!

So I must have been wrong in my recollection of how I achieved this
originally, two years ago. Which raises the question of how I *did*
achieve it?! I know for sure it was with the Copy Drive feature of DI
2002. How could I have got to the state of E and F on my new HD, with
an 11 GB E partition containing a copy of C, alongside a 45 GB F
partition containing data? I've booted into that E copy of XP Home
several times in that two years, fortunately in a spirit of experiment
and not in emergency due to failure of C.

That's now just a matter of intellectual curiosity though. The
important point is how can I do it *now*?

If e: was just DI backup images, then the simplest solution I believe
is to use the XP Disk Management function to create e: on Disk 2, then
format e:. Then you can you use DI to create a normal image from c:
to e:.

As mentioned yesterday, out of nervousness I made my first *image* of
C onto F, and now have 3 files there:
MyBackup-C8Sep04-1330.002
MyBackup-C8Sep04-1330.003
MyBackup-C8Sep04-1330.pqi

So, in an emergency, I could presumably use DI 2002 to restore C, yes?
But, as mentioned earlier, I don't see how placing that image in E
would have helped me achieve my objective?

The bottom line is, how can I now get to my objective, from the
current state as shown in the various screenshots I've uploaded,
repeated here?
http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Misc/PM-AfterChanges.gif
http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Misc/XPDiskMgmt.gif
http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Misc/DI-AfterChanges.gif

I'm sure it will be embarrassingly obvious when I finally grasp how to
do it!

 

[John .]

But now I am very confused by the display I see in PM:
http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Misc/PM-AfterChanges.gif

For one thing, I don't recall previously seeing anything about an
'Extended' partition before the changes, although I could be mistaken.
Is this an error on my part? Can I get rid of this Extended partition,
which just adds another level complexity as far as I'm concerned?

No you can't. Look back at your DI picture and you can see that d:
and F: are logical partitions, which is correct.
http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Images/DriveImage1.gif

Normally there is one primary partition on a physical drive, along
with, if wanted, one extended partition. Within the extended
partition can be one or more logical partitions.

If you're just trying to have an IDENTICAL Disk2, then why not take a
simple approach: Delete all partitions on Disk2, Use Drive Image to
"copy disk" copying disk1 to disk2.

Then disk2 will be same as disk1.

(Always be certain you have a GOOD backup (CDR or DVD or external
disk, etc.) of disk1 before doing all this)

 

[Terry Pinnell]

No you can't. Look back at your DI picture and you can see that d:
and F: are logical partitions, which is correct.
http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Images/DriveImage1.gif

Thanks for bearing with me. But I think you're out of synch! That link
was to yesterday's status. In the post to which you are replying, I
gave two new links showing the latest status, as seen in PM and XP
Disk Management respectively.

To repeat those here for convenience, the latest position, reached
last night and still unchanged while I ponder what to do, is shown in:
http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Misc/PM-AfterChanges.gif
http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Misc/XPDiskMgmt.gif
http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Misc/DI-AfterChanges.gif

Did you have any thoughts on my question as to the discrepancy in
sizes please?

Also, I've just encountered another puzzle: if open My Computer, my
new E partition is not included. Any idea why not please?

Normally there is one primary partition on a physical drive, along
with, if wanted, one extended partition. Within the extended
partition can be one or more logical partitions.

If you're just trying to have an IDENTICAL Disk2, then why not take a
simple approach: Delete all partitions on Disk2, Use Drive Image to
"copy disk" copying disk1 to disk2.

But I don't want to have identical disks. I described what I had (and
what I want to retrieve) in my first post:

While I want E to be a copy of C, I don't want F to be a copy of D.

Then disk2 will be same as disk1.

(Always be certain you have a GOOD backup (CDR or DVD or external
disk, etc.) of disk1 before doing all this)

I wish I could say I did have that. Do many users really back up 45 GB
or so to CD? Some 65 or 70 CDs? And, without testing it, have
confidence it would be restored without a hitch?

But I back up most of my data (to F) each night, and - up until the
present disaster! - I had an oldish version of C in E, to which I
could always boot if required.

 

[Terry Pinnell]

Pending any replies to my last post, one approach I thought should
work was to take advantage of the precautionary *image* of C that I
wrote in F. It seems to me that I should now be able to restore this
to E, the new, empty partition I've created. But I can't get my mind
around why DI 2002 says it's going to *delete* E to do this! The very
last message I get before I commit to this restore is this:
-------
Deleting partition: E:System 2
(NTFS, Primary volume, 12111.5 MB on Disk:2)

Restoring partition(s):
System (*) 8.21 GB
From image file: F:\MyBackup-C8Sep04-1330.pqi
To free space location (12111.5 MB in size) on Disk: 2
-------

Can someone explain to me why I cannot just get the restore into E
please? Why would DI instead place it in 'free space'?

I have the feeling there's a basic concept here I just have not
grasped. Surely it shouldn't be this hard to achieve what I'm trying
to do, namely get back to where I was a couple of days ago, with an
alternative system partition for booting to in emergency?

I've chickened out of this restore until I can understand better what
it implies.

 

[John .]

Since my reply earlier today, I think the penny is finally beginning
to drop here! It's as you say: DI apparently won't let me copy 'into'
an empty partition. My intuition said it obviously would, but clearly
it won't, for whatever reason!

So I must have been wrong in my recollection of how I achieved this
originally, two years ago. Which raises the question of how I *did*
achieve it?! I know for sure it was with the Copy Drive feature of DI
2002. How could I have got to the state of E and F on my new HD, with
an 11 GB E partition containing a copy of C, alongside a 45 GB F
partition containing data? I've booted into that E copy of XP Home
several times in that two years, fortunately in a spirit of experiment
and not in emergency due to failure of C.

Two years ago, I'm guessing that disk2 was empty. So DI "Copy disk"
function copied into the empty disk and created the partitions.

That's now just a matter of intellectual curiosity though. The
important point is how can I do it *now*?


As mentioned yesterday, out of nervousness I made my first *image* of
C onto F, and now have 3 files there:
MyBackup-C8Sep04-1330.002
MyBackup-C8Sep04-1330.003
MyBackup-C8Sep04-1330.pqi

So, in an emergency, I could presumably use DI 2002 to restore C, yes?
But, as mentioned earlier, I don't see how placing that image in E
would have helped me achieve my objective?

The bottom line is, how can I now get to my objective, from the
current state as shown in the various screenshots I've uploaded,
repeated here?
http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Misc/PM-AfterChanges.gif
http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Misc/XPDiskMgmt.gif
http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Misc/DI-AfterChanges.gif

I'm sure it will be embarrassingly obvious when I finally grasp how to
do it!

Why not just use DI to create images of c: and d: into one of the
partitions on disk 2? In the event of a failure of disk1:, you boot
from the CD or emergency diskettes, and restore the image back onto c:
or d: (or a replacement disk1)

I can't follow all your other scenarios. KIS (keep it simple)

 

[Terry Pinnell]

Two years ago, I'm guessing that disk2 was empty. So DI "Copy disk"
function copied into the empty disk and created the partitions.

Thanks for your patience on this.

Why not just use DI to create images of c: and d: into one of the
partitions on disk 2? In the event of a failure of disk1:, you boot
from the CD or emergency diskettes, and restore the image back onto c:
or d: (or a replacement disk1)

I can't follow all your other scenarios. KIS (keep it simple)

Pleased to say I have now managed to get a copy of my XP Home system
partition C onto partition E. FWIW, I restored the precautionary image
of C (which I had place on D), onto E. This meant ignoring what I now
regard as misleading/ambiguous warnings from DI 2002 that confused me
for a long time, that it would 'delete the partition'. I think it
meant it would delete the partition *contents*, because after the
restore I still *had* E, and it looks identical to C. I can
copy/move/etc in it with Explorer.

So on the face of it I now have what I originally had, except that E
is now an up to date copy of C, rather than nearly 2 years old, i.e.
what the exercise set out to achieve:

HD 1 (60 GB MAXTOR)
-------------------
C system
D data

HD 2 (60 GB MAXTOR)
------------------
E system 2 (copy of C)
F more data

However...the bad news is that it doesn't work. When I reboot and get
the familiar 3 options for a few seconds:
Windows XP Home Edition
Windows XP Home Edition #1
XP Recovery Console

if I choose the second, instead of booting into XP as it used to do, I
now get this error message:

"Windows could not start because the following file is missing or
corrupt:
<Windows root>\system32\hal.dll.
Please reinstall a copy of the above file"

Yet that file looks identical in both C and E (75.6 KB, 29th Aug
2002).

Any suggestions on how I might try fixing that please?

Sorry for length of these posts <g>. But the devil is in the details
as they say, and I always think it's better to offer as much info as
possible.

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

Thanks for your patience on this.



Pleased to say I have now managed to get a copy of my XP Home system
partition C onto partition E. FWIW, I restored the precautionary image
of C (which I had place on D), onto E. This meant ignoring what I now
regard as misleading/ambiguous warnings from DI 2002 that confused me
for a long time, that it would 'delete the partition'. I think it
meant it would delete the partition *contents*, because after the
restore I still *had* E, and it looks identical to C. I can
copy/move/etc in it with Explorer.

And what has that got to do whether DI did or didn't delete the partition first (and then created it again to the proper size needed
for copying)?
Point is that the original e: drive is deleted.

 

[John .]

So on the face of it I now have what I originally had, except that E
is now an up to date copy of C, rather than nearly 2 years old, i.e.
what the exercise set out to achieve:

HD 1 (60 GB MAXTOR)
-------------------
C system
D data

HD 2 (60 GB MAXTOR)
------------------
E system 2 (copy of C)
F more data

However...the bad news is that it doesn't work. When I reboot and get
the familiar 3 options for a few seconds:
Windows XP Home Edition
Windows XP Home Edition #1
XP Recovery Console

if I choose the second, instead of booting into XP as it used to do, I
now get this error message:

"Windows could not start because the following file is missing or
corrupt:
<Windows root>\system32\hal.dll.
Please reinstall a copy of the above file"

Yet that file looks identical in both C and E (75.6 KB, 29th Aug
2002).

Any suggestions on how I might try fixing that please?

Sorry for length of these posts <g>. But the devil is in the details
as they say, and I always think it's better to offer as much info as
possible.

You will need to research and/or post the Windows error message in one
of the XP newsgroups probably.

I still don't understand why it is so important to be able to
dual-boot to an alternate disk drive at any time. If you need this
kind of immediate backup protection, look at RAID controllers and
mirroring.

If you just want a good backup image in case of a problem, then just
make Disk2 one large data partition, and use DI or Ghost 9 or Acronis
True Image to create a backup image of Disk1 to your Disk2 data
partition.

Keep it simple.

 

[Terry Pinnell]

You will need to research and/or post the Windows error message in one
of the XP newsgroups probably.

I still don't understand why it is so important to be able to
dual-boot to an alternate disk drive at any time. If you need this
kind of immediate backup protection, look at RAID controllers and
mirroring.

Pleased to say, after another entire day on it, it's now achieved.

If you just want a good backup image in case of a problem, then just
make Disk2 one large data partition, and use DI or Ghost 9 or Acronis
True Image to create a backup image of Disk1 to your Disk2 data
partition.

What happens if your normal system HD fails? To what do you restore
the image?

And also I think I'd worry about whether that image would actually
work when the crunch came. With a (snapshot) copy of C now on E, I can
examine E with Explore, and boot to it at any time, without exposing
my normal system to risk.

 

[John .]

What happens if your normal system HD fails? To what do you restore
the image?

a new disk drive, for a total disk drive failure,

or to the existing c: partition if just the operating system failed or
you want to roll back.

 

[Terry Pinnell]

a new disk drive, for a total disk drive failure,

or to the existing c: partition if just the operating system failed or
you want to roll back.

I see your point. If the drive fails, I'm going to have to replace it!

I need to rethink my basic backup/recovery strategy. You've been
generous with your advice already, so hope you won't mind my follow up
questions here. Knowing what you now know of my setup, what approach
would *you* take? To remind you:

Drive 1
-------
C: system 11 GB
D: Data etc 44 GB (also now contains an image of C)

Drive 2
-------
E: Snapshot bootable copy 10th Sep 2004 of system 11 GB
F: Routine backup etc 44 GB (Often used to recover or compare files)

Finally (!) I now wonder whether I have after all resolved this issue
of drive letters and bootup. The position right now as I compose this
is:
http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Misc/XPDiskMgmt11Sep.gif

I now see 'Active' against E. Does that mean I am now 'running' from
that system, i.e. on my 2nd HD, not from C as I thought last night?

 

[John .]

I see your point. If the drive fails, I'm going to have to replace it!

I need to rethink my basic backup/recovery strategy. You've been
generous with your advice already, so hope you won't mind my follow up
questions here. Knowing what you now know of my setup, what approach
would *you* take? To remind you:

Drive 1
-------
C: system 11 GB
D: Data etc 44 GB (also now contains an image of C)

Drive 2

If you like the dual-boot and hot backup approach, it's fine. For
myself, I use a second disk just for backup. It contains images of my
disk1 partitions which I create using Ghost 9.

You should solicit other people's opinions however on this or other
newsgroups. Start a new thread with new topic. Also look at
newsgroup alt.backup-software or ask backup questions there also.

There are many backup approaches. Be thankful at least you are
proactive. Many unfortunately have no backup!

Finally (!) I now wonder whether I have after all resolved this issue
of drive letters and bootup. The position right now as I compose this
is:
http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Misc/XPDiskMgmt11Sep.gif

I now see 'Active' against E. Does that mean I am now 'running' from
that system, i.e. on my 2nd HD, not from C as I thought last night?

There can be more than one primary partition on a physical disk, but
only one primary partition can be active at any time. I believe that
is what this is indicating.

john

 

[Eric Gisin]

The current OS partition always shows up as Boot.

Active means bootable. The active part that booted shows up as System, and
other ones as Active.

 

[Terry Pinnell]

The current OS partition always shows up as Boot.

Active means bootable. The active part that booted shows up as System, and
other ones as Active.

Many thanks, Eric - at last I think I'm beginning to understand. Must
say I find it all very counter-intuitive! Can you and others bear with
me a few minutes while I try to explain further what I'm trying to do
please. From your definition above, it may be that I'm already there!.

I've booted to XP Home Edition, the 'first' of my 2 multi-boot
options. This is what my system looks like according to XP Disk
Management:
http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Misc/Sep12-XP.gif

From that, how can I tell definitively what partition I am 'running
in'?

BTW, both Drive Image 2002 and Partition Manager 7.0 just show both as
'Active'; no distinction.)

My interpretation before Eric's post was that I'm 'in' E, instead of C
where I want to be. That was based on seeing that 'Active' annotation
XP shows against E. But it now seems I was mistaken, and I'm 'in' C
after all, yes?

Why do I care? That's because I want to be back in *exactly* the same
state I've been in for the last 2 years.
C was exclusively my system and boot partition. No E involved at all.
E was just sitting patiently on my 2nd HD until some emergency (or
experiment) prompted me to boot to it instead. So, as I didn't
normally use the files on F either, only my 1st HD would actually be
being accessed. The 2nd HD (XP calls it Disk 1 to confuse me) would
just be spinning passively for most of the time. That's a mental
picture with which I'm comfortable!

Can anyone tell me if I'm already back in the required state, or
whether I still need to do something clever/complex/risky, as several
others in the XP groups have suggested?