DreamPC2006 died again probably because of usb port/plug misalignment on pins.


S

Skybuck Flying

Skybuck's Dream PC from 2006 has died again it seems.

Possible causes:

1. Static electricity discharge from either me or the vacuum cleaner.
2. AMD X2 3800+ dual core processor wear and tear of motherboard.
3. DeLock card reader short circuit.
4. Denon Receiver voltage/ampere loop back.

Cause of death as of yet unknown.

DreamPC came back alive 1 more day just like last time before ultimately
dieing.
(Symptom during death was a hearable feedback loop on speakers during
freeze, this same sound was heard on other pc when ground wire was badly
connected.
USB DeLock might have been wrongly connected at first causing a short
circuit cause damage ?! :()

Most likely cause of death: USB DeLock Card Reader USB plug misplaced
causing short circuit, possible ground wire related.

Suspected damage: ASRock Socket 939 motherboard components damaged/failed
because of usb plug/port short circuit.

Blame: USB port/Plug designers.

Recommendations/Adviced for fututre: Make it impossible to plug in plugs
wrongly too prevent short circuits.

Bye,
Skybuck.

P.S.:

Reposting of this message, apperently google didn't post it, also cannot use
google anymore on Pentium III 450 mhz. Google has turned into slow poo.

So I cannot research this topic properly:

"Connecting USB plugs wrongly can cause motherboard death"

Typing in such a long sentence would take forever on www.google.com LOL.

Bye,
Skybuck.

Double P.S.: Don't even think about suggesting BING because I already tried
that and it forwards me to my own postings via google newsgroup which is
slow poo as well.

It's quite ensobering to see how the world turns into poo when these big
services are not working anymore !

It will be most interesting to watch the IT world come to a screeching halt
within oh say 15 years thanks to the web/HTML 6 billion crap.

Do yourselfs a favor: stick to navive executable code, and void
parsers/text/html/xml LIKE THE PLAGUE... it's slow ass poo.
 
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S

Skybuck Flying

Pins were like this:

.. = pin
= missing pin

+-+-+
|.| |
+-+-+
|.|.|
+-+-+
|.|.|
+-+-+
|.|.|
+-+-+
|.|.|
+-+-+

Plug was connected 1 row too high like this:

X = blocked hole on plug.

O X
+-+-+
|O|O|
+-+-+
|O|O|
+-+-+
|O|O|
+-+-+
|O|O|
+-+-+
|.|.|
+-+-+


The blocked hole did not prevent it from placing it wrongly.

I shall take a closer look at the asrock 790GX manual and post the pin
assignments for the usb port here:

(It was middle usb port):

+-+-+
|1|2|
+-+-+
|3|4|
+-+-+
|5|6|
+-+-+
|7|8|
+-+-+
|9|0|
+-+-+


1 = dummy
2 = missing pin
3 = GND
4 = GND
5 = P+7
6 = P+6
7 = P-7
8 = P-6
9 = USB_PWR
10 = USB_PWR


The device wrongly attached to it was:

http://www.delock.com/produkte/F_276_intern_91674/merkmale.html

"
Delock USB 2.0 Card Reader 3.5 57 in 1 + 1 x USB 2.0 port

Description
This Delock Card Reader can be installed into the 3.5 drive bay of your PC.
This card reader can read and write 57 different memory card formats.


Specification
- USB 2.0 Card Reader 57 in 1 with 1x USB 2.0 port
in a metal case for 3.5 bay installation
- Data transfer rate up to 480 Mbps
- Hot Swap, Plug & Play

- Supports following memory cards:
Slot 1: Compact Flash / Micro Drive CF I, CF II, CF 4.0, CF Extreme, CF
Extreme III, CF Extreme IV, CF Extreme IV UDMA, UDMA Extreme, UDMA 6 Extreme
Pro, ULTIMA II, Micro Drive, Magicstor
Slot 2: Secure Digital / Multi Media Card SD, SD High Capacity (SDHC), SDXC,
SD Ultra II, SD UDMA II, SD Extreme III, SDHC Turbo, SDHC Ultra, SDHC
Extreme, SDHC Extreme III, Turbo-SD, Turbo Mini SD*, Mini SD*, Mini SDHC*,
MMC-I, MMC-II, MMC plus, MMC plus Turbo, HS-MMC, HC-MMC, MMCmobile*,
MMCmobile* Dual-Voltage, RS-MMC*, RS-MMC 4.0*
Slot 3: Memory Stick xD, xD type M, xD type H
Slot 4: xD MicroSD, Micro SDHC, Micro SDHC Turbo, Mirco SDXC, T-Flash,
MMCmicro
Slot 5: M2 MS, MS-ROM, MS Magic Gate, MS Pro, MS-Pro Magic Gate, MS-Duo,
MS-Duo Magic Gate, MS-Pro Duo, MSPro HighSpeed, MS-Pro HG-Duo, MS-Pro Duo
Magic Gate, MS Micro (M2)*
*Adapter required

System requirements
- Windows 2000/XP/XP-64/Vista/Vista-64/7, Mac OS 8.6x or above,
Linux OS 2.4 or above
- PC with one free 3.5 Bay
- One free internal 9-pin USB 2.0 port

Package content
- Card Reader with cable for Mainboard
- User manual

Package
- Retail Box
"

Now I want to know why would this device cause the motherboard to die if
wrongly connected ?!

Bye,
Skybuck.
 
P

Pete

Sorry to hear about your troubles.

Do M/B USB headers not normally have a blank pin to stop you plugging it
in in the wrong orientation? Or do you mean you plugged it into another
header which was not intended for USB?

The main reason for using common connectors & M/B pins is to keep the
cost of the parts as low as possible. Considering the number of them on
the M/B it is a substantial piece part cost reduction.

On the bright side, now you can spec & build a new dream-machine :)

Pete
 
J

Johann Klammer

Skybuck said:
Skybuck's Dream PC from 2006 has died again it seems.

Possible causes:

1. Static electricity discharge from either me or the vacuum cleaner.
which model? I suspect there's one of these here, too.
 
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J

Johann Klammer

Pete said:
Sorry to hear about your troubles.

Do M/B USB headers not normally have a blank pin to stop you plugging it
in in the wrong orientation? Or do you mean you plugged it into another
header which was not intended for USB?

That is _usually_ right, but unfortunately there are(at least) two
different pinouts for USB mainboard connectors, and the breakout units
do not always fit. So do not rely on the manufacturers to do the
thinking for you.

for example:
oldish msi k7tPro2-A
1 vcc
2 gnd
3 usbd3-
4 gnd
5 usbd3+
6 usbd2+
7 gnd
8 usbd2-
9 gnd
10vcc

oldish asrock k7vt4A Pro
1 usb-pwr
2 usb-pwr
3 p-4
4 p-5
5 p+4
6 p+5
7 gnd
8 gnd
9 (missing)
10dummy
 
P

Pete

That is _usually_ right, but unfortunately there are(at least) two
different pinouts for USB mainboard connectors, and the breakout units
do not always fit. So do not rely on the manufacturers to do the
thinking for you.

for example:
oldish msi k7tPro2-A
1 vcc
2 gnd
3 usbd3-
4 gnd
5 usbd3+
6 usbd2+
7 gnd
8 usbd2-
9 gnd
10vcc

oldish asrock k7vt4A Pro
1 usb-pwr
2 usb-pwr
3 p-4
4 p-5
5 p+4
6 p+5
7 gnd
8 gnd
9 (missing)
10dummy

I assume this has been resolved with an industry standard for USB 3.0?
 
S

Skybuck Flying

I will tell you guys (and girls ;)?:)) exactly how this happened.

It's kinda stupid but somewhat logical at the same time, so conflicting
requirements/logics:

Circumstances which led to the death:

1. I had to build in the new usb card reader (unfortunately it had no floppy
drive ?! :()
2. I had to remove the old floppy drive.
3. I was worried about motherboard death.
4. I was worried about harddisk death.


So what I did was the following:

1. Remove the floppy drive/old card reader.
2. Build in the new usb card reader.
3. Take pictures with my new canon powershot sx50 hs. (I was confused about
the card reader only have a usb cable and nothing else)
4. I left the new usb card reader unconnected because I wanted to make sure
that the motherboard and harddisks were still working.
I was worried that connecting the new usb drive would blow it up/cause
damage. I wanted to check first if all the building didn't damage anything.
5. I booted the PC everything was working.
6. I shutdown the PC.
7. I tried to connect the usb plug... somewhat dark... while everything was
plugged in...

And that's when it happened.
Wrongly connected :(

8. I boot up the PC.
9. I tried and read something from the card
10. I play some music or something.
11. One minute after boot... FREEZE/HUMMING sounds on receiver/speakers.

And the thing I feared the most probably actually happened... it blew up the
fokking motherboard.

Not 100% sure, but it seems most likely cause of death.

It happened after about 1 minute of operation/playing some music or so.

Bye,
Skybuck.
 
S

Skybuck Flying

This methology is the same way I program software.

I take it step by step.

Unfortunately that methology apperently doesn't work to well with
electronics... DEATH OCCURED ! NOOOOOOOO !

Bye,
Skybuck.
 
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S

Skybuck Flying

I also had more bad luck.

There were only 3 light bulbs working at the time...

I bought 4 light bulbs, had to replace a few...

Unfortunatel 1 light bulb had the wrong fitting... it was too small...
packaging almost looked identical.

Perhaps if all 4 light bulbs were working I might have had enough light to
spot the mis alignment.

Then again the high up on the ceiling...

It's dark inside a PC... and the plugs/pins real tiny... really hard to get
it right.

I even had a super hard time getting the power connectors/leds connectors
and stuff connected to the Old Pentium III 450 mhz... even with a light bulb
right next to it...

Next time I should take a small little lamp and place it right next to it...
or just take PC apart again... but this risks more damage to harddisks if
they inside...

Perhaps me should be glad that at least my harddisks are not dead ! At least
I hope so ;)

I am not really glad though... all this shit just because of one little
stupid plug :(

I now have to find either:

1. A new socket 939 motherboard for sale somewhere.

or

2. A new motherboard + new cpu, hopefully memory compatible, otherwise new
memory too, that could become expensive.

maybe I should try and fix it as cheaply as possible... I kinda hate giving
up on a CPU... this amd cpu... I would like to keep it working for
historical reason ya know ! ;)

I can always buy a new PC in the future.

Now I just need to find a dutch store with a socket 939 motherboard.

Perhaps I will go for the asrock 785 motherboard... not sure if that will
fit my PC needs... I dismissed it in favor of the 790GX not sure why
anymore... might have to look into my own postings for that...

Pentium III 450 mhz a bit too slow for surfing probably too low memory...
it's a bit slow as well... but 256 MB just not enough for XP... even with
more memory it would still be too slow... so not going to spent any more
money on it sorry, little computer ! ;) :)

Saving my money for a new computer in the future... just need to get this
one back online ! ;)

I guess I will have to read the 785 manual again to see what it's got and if
it's suited... what I remember from it is it's more tiny and probably has
some wireless stuff on it ?!

Actually my memory is coming back to me... I think it actually uses
different memory slots.

So it could be useless... oh-oh...

I'll just have to find me another webshop which has ASRock 790GX
motherboard... that would be best...

And then I have to make sure not to blow it up anymore ! ;)

Ouch !

Bye,
Skybuck.
 
S

Skybuck Flying

Also one of the problems with these tiny power switch/led connectors is the
following:

The plugs are black and so are the ports/headers.

All that blackness makes it very hard to see how they are aligning up...

And they are hardly shiny... so even adding light doesn't change much.

There would need to be a shading difference or highlights to notice
anything... but with total blackness it's just not there.

So using different colors for these plugs/headers would be nice and make
things a bit easier to see.

How much more that would cost I don't know ;)

Bye,
Skybuck.
 
S

Skybuck Flying

I just came up with a hopefully good plan/experiment for the DreamPC... yes
still not done with it, because me not statisfied with the results so far.

The last year or so... I put the fans on medium speed, and no dust filters,
end result:

CPU Heatsink full with dust !

Power Supply full with dust !

All passively cooled things were okish, slight dust particles but not to
bad.

Also fans full with dust.

So new plan is the following, since I have two motherboards:

1. The coming year I will put fans on low speed. (If that aint working
because of high temperatures I might set it back to medium speed, but low
speed will probably be ok).

If the system dies again because of cleaning operation in the future, then
my final experiment will be:

2. Disconnect FANS from the front, and maybe the back too... perhaps leave
big fan on, or maybe disconnect that too... and only leave power fan
spinning... but maybe one back fan should be on... low or so... So the Antec
1200 would become an almost passively cooled system... there is plenty of
room/air in it... so perhaps a modest airflow is enough to keep the CPU
cool... and also the passively cooled GPU.

If the motherfokker dies again because of overheat (probably not) or
dust-related-cleaning the fokking thing will go into the waste basket lol.

Then I will buy a new PC, make sure it can attach my new drives... and new
PC should remain dust free as much as possible and be low heat as much as
possible ;)

Hopefully the dreampc won't die with this somewhat open antec 1200 grid
inlet... and hopefully modest airflow will not cause dust issues ! ;)

I think it probably will cause dust issues, so this means next PC must have
a closed front to prevent dust from getting sucked in... ;)

Time will tell ! ;)

Place your dust-bets now ! ;) :)

Bye,
Skybuck.
 
P

Pete

450 mhz.... bin the heap and upgrade. Out of curiosity what size are
your HDD's?

I'm assuming something that old is IDE?
 
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P

Pete

It must be me being from a younger generation, I like to move on and
keep with the latest hw/sw
 
J

Jeroen Belleman

It must be me being from a younger generation, I like to move on and
keep with the latest hw/sw

Must be because you are just playing with it. When you've
got work to do, these incessant upgrades quickly grow tiring.

Jeroen Belleman
 
P

Pete

Must be because you are just playing with it. When you've
got work to do, these incessant upgrades quickly grow tiring.

Jeroen Belleman

Well you are half right, I design computer based security systems so I
am constantly working with the tech but I still enjoy setting up
elaborate systems at home also.

Perhaps after a large number of years I will get bored.
 
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P

Paul

Skybuck said:
I will tell you guys (and girls ;)?:)) exactly how this happened.

It's kinda stupid but somewhat logical at the same time, so conflicting
requirements/logics:

Circumstances which led to the death:

1. I had to build in the new usb card reader (unfortunately it had no floppy
drive ?! :()
2. I had to remove the old floppy drive.
3. I was worried about motherboard death.
4. I was worried about harddisk death.


So what I did was the following:

1. Remove the floppy drive/old card reader.
2. Build in the new usb card reader.
3. Take pictures with my new canon powershot sx50 hs. (I was confused about
the card reader only have a usb cable and nothing else)
4. I left the new usb card reader unconnected because I wanted to make sure
that the motherboard and harddisks were still working.
I was worried that connecting the new usb drive would blow it up/cause
damage. I wanted to check first if all the building didn't damage anything.
5. I booted the PC everything was working.
6. I shutdown the PC.
7. I tried to connect the usb plug... somewhat dark... while everything was
plugged in...

And that's when it happened.
Wrongly connected :(

8. I boot up the PC.
9. I tried and read something from the card
10. I play some music or something.
11. One minute after boot... FREEZE/HUMMING sounds on receiver/speakers.

And the thing I feared the most probably actually happened... it blew up the
fokking motherboard.

Not 100% sure, but it seems most likely cause of death.

It happened after about 1 minute of operation/playing some music or so.

Bye,
Skybuck.

That's probably latchup on the Southbridge, from the mis-connected header.
The Southbridge is probably ruined. The one under the aluminum heatsink
next to the three USB2 headers.

I have a floor lamp with an adjustable arm on it, that I use for
lighting the PC when working inside. Makes a big difference.
Plenty of light, so I can move wiring safely.

When fitting USB headers, turn off all power. You can do that
by switching the PC off at the back. Or, unplug the PC.
That's to ensure there is no +5VSB inside the chassis
(which also powers the USB header). Then fit the header.
Fitting one of those headers with the power on, is asking
for trouble.

And like it says in the motherboard manuals, if the
computer has both IEEE1394 headers and USB2 headers,
they have the same pin pattern. Don't install the USB2
header on a IEEE1394 2x5. Both have the keying pin in
the same place.

Paul
 

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