Does DriveImage 7 include the MBR in its image of a primary partition?

[Chris]

Does DriveImage 7 include the MBR in its image of a primary partition?

This is what I want to do:

Partition the 80 GB HDD thus:
C: 10 GB for XP
E: 50 GB for Drive Images and data
Remainder for experimenting with Linux

Install XP.
Image its partition to E.
Install Linux.
Image its partition to E.

But I'm wondering whether I need to do anything special about the MBR?
Maybe after the Linux install I need to image C again?
But would that include its changed MBR (with LILO on it)?

 

[Alex Nichol]

Does DriveImage 7 include the MBR in its image of a primary partition?

This is what I want to do:

Partition the 80 GB HDD thus:
C: 10 GB for XP
E: 50 GB for Drive Images and data
Remainder for experimenting with Linux

Install XP.
Image its partition to E.
Install Linux.
Image its partition to E.

But I'm wondering whether I need to do anything special about the MBR?
Maybe after the Linux install I need to image C again?
But would that include its changed MBR (with LILO on it)?

The MBR is outside any partitions, in the very first sector of the disk.
If you copy across the partitions and want to boot the resulting disk
directly, you will have to arrange for MBR code to be written - probably
in your case by installing lilo again. Another approach is to install
lilo in the root partition rather than MBR, and use an external Boot
manager, eg BootIT NG, installed in MBR and its own area

 

[Chris]

Chris wrote:

The MBR is outside any partitions, in the very first sector of the disk.
If you copy across the partitions and want to boot the resulting disk
directly, you will have to arrange for MBR code to be written - probably
in your case by installing lilo again. Another approach is to install
lilo in the root partition rather than MBR, and use an external Boot
manager, eg BootIT NG, installed in MBR and its own area

Still trying to understand.
To image XP and Linux, would I need to:
1.Install XP and image it;
2.Install Linux and image it;
3.Image XP again to capture its new MBR (with LILO on it)?
Or wouldn't it matter that LILO was still there?
The XP boot would work - but the Linux would not - if the Linux
partition had been deleted.
I'm groping here because of confusion.
If you can guess what I'm trying to say, please help!
Does DriveImage ignore the MBR?

 

[I'm Dan]

Still trying to understand.
To image XP and Linux, would I need to:
1.Install XP and image it;
2.Install Linux and image it;
3.Image XP again to capture its new MBR (with LILO on it)?
Or wouldn't it matter that LILO was still there?
The XP boot would work - but the Linux would not - if the Linux
partition had been deleted.
I'm groping here because of confusion.
If you can guess what I'm trying to say, please help!
Does DriveImage ignore the MBR?

As Alex said, the MBR is *outside* any partitions. Your Step 3 will not
capture any MBR changes.

Think of the disk (in your example) as having *four* distinct parts: the
MBR, partition 1 (XP), partition 2 (data), and partition 3 (linux).
DriveImage works on partitions. It will image part.1 or part.3 and save it
to a file on part.2, but none of those encompasses the MBR. (There are good
reasons for that.)

When you install linux, you are normally given a choice of where to install
the linux loader (lilo or grub). You can install it in the MBR or in the
linux root partition (part.3). If you install it in the root partition,
then your image of part.3 will include lilo, but you will need some other
means to get the computer's boot process redirected from the MBR to lilo in
part.3 -- hence, Alex's suggestion of a boot manager like BootIt-NG. If you
install lilo to the MBR, then you won't need another boot manager, but lilo
will not be included in your DriveImage images. Fortunately, there are easy
ways to backup the MBR -- such as using MBRwork, a freebie available from
www.bootitng.com.

BTW, if you haven't already shelled out the bucks for DI7, I'd use BootIt-NG
instead. Besides being a good boot manager, it does triple-duty as a
partition imager (ala, DriveImage or Ghost) and a partition manager/resizer
(ala, PartitionMagic) -- *three* useful utilities for less than the price of
any *one* of the competitors.

 

[Al Smith]

The MBR is outside any partitions, in the very first sector of the disk.

Still trying to understand.
To image XP and Linux, would I need to:
1.Install XP and image it;
2.Install Linux and image it;
3.Image XP again to capture its new MBR (with LILO on it)?
Or wouldn't it matter that LILO was still there?
The XP boot would work - but the Linux would not - if the Linux partition had been deleted.
I'm groping here because of confusion.
If you can guess what I'm trying to say, please help!
Does DriveImage ignore the MBR?

I've wondered this myself, and I don't know the answer. My guess
is that if Drive Image does a mirror of the entire disk, it would
copy the MBR, since the MBR is on the disk. But I'd like this
confirmed, also.

 

[Rock]

I've wondered this myself, and I don't know the answer. My guess is that
if Drive Image does a mirror of the entire disk, it would copy the MBR,
since the MBR is on the disk. But I'd like this confirmed, also.

No, it doesn't copy the mbr.

 

[Chris]

As Alex said, the MBR is *outside* any partitions. Your Step 3 will not
capture any MBR changes.
Think of the disk (in your example) as having *four* distinct parts: the
MBR, partition 1 (XP), partition 2 (data), and partition 3 (linux).
DriveImage works on partitions. It will image part.1 or part.3 and save it
to a file on part.2, but none of those encompasses the MBR. (There are good
reasons for that.)
When you install linux, you are normally given a choice of where to install
the linux loader (lilo or grub). You can install it in the MBR or in the
linux root partition (part.3). If you install it in the root partition,
then your image of part.3 will include lilo, but you will need some other
means to get the computer's boot process redirected from the MBR to lilo in
part.3 -- hence, Alex's suggestion of a boot manager like BootIt-NG. If you
install lilo to the MBR, then you won't need another boot manager, but lilo
will not be included in your DriveImage images. Fortunately, there are easy
ways to backup the MBR -- such as using MBRwork, a freebie available from
www.bootitng.com.
BTW, if you haven't already shelled out the bucks for DI7, I'd use BootIt-NG
instead. Besides being a good boot manager, it does triple-duty as a
partition imager (ala, DriveImage or Ghost) and a partition manager/resizer
(ala, PartitionMagic) -- *three* useful utilities for less than the price of
any *one* of the competitors.

Thanks - that's very useful indeed - and has made me browse my (old)
Scott Mueller book to find out how hard drives actually work.

Unfortunately I did buy Drive Image 7 - and so I'm wondering what is my
best strategy. Everything I consider raises further questions!

1. LILO in MBR and image the various versions of the MBR to go with the
various images of the partitions (using something like MBRwork that you
mentioned).

2. Use BootMagic if I can find it - I know I had it once.

3. Some other strategy that I am not yet aware of!

What I'm aiming at is a dual-boot system where I can quickly and easily
restore either Operating System once my experiments have mucked it up.

How would you do it?
Or, how *do* you do it?

 

[I'm Dan]

\> >available from www.bootitng.com.
....(snipped)...

Thanks - that's very useful indeed - and has made me browse my
(old) Scott Mueller book to find out how hard drives actually work.

Unfortunately I did buy Drive Image 7 - and so I'm wondering what
is my best strategy. Everything I consider raises further questions!

1. LILO in MBR and image the various versions of the MBR to go
with the various images of the partitions (using something like
MBRwork that you mentioned).

2. Use BootMagic if I can find it - I know I had it once.

3. Some other strategy that I am not yet aware of!

What I'm aiming at is a dual-boot system where I can quickly and
easily restore either Operating System once my experiments have
mucked it up.

How would you do it?
Or, how *do* you do it?

See if my webpage at www.goodells.net/multiboot helps.

If you will have just one Microsoft OS and linux, lilo should be adequate
and installed in the MBR. Save images of both OS partitions, and save an
image of the MBR via MBRwork or similar. Note there is only one MBR, so no
need to worry about saving "various versions" of the MBR. Your MBR would
have lilo and be able to boot both Windows and linux. If you ever need to
go back to a Windows-only machine, the original MBR is easily restored from
the XP CD.

If you think you might install more than one Microsoft OS, then I would use
a different approach. Lilo and the native MS bootloader cannot hide
multiple MS OS partitions from each other, so I would recommend a competent
third-party boot manager (such as XOSL or BootIt-NG) that has the ability to
hide partitions from each other. Leave the MBR for the boot manager and
install lilo in the linux root partition, with the boot manager chaining to
lilo to boot linux. Again, you can save images of the separate OS
partitions, and use MBRwork to save the MBR area (with its third-party boot
manager) if you want. FWIW, I don't bother saving the MBR -- boot managers
are usually easy to reinstall, so saving the MBR is of minimal benefit.
Besides, the master boot sector also contains the master partition table, so
any saved MBR image is obsolete if you subsequently make partition changes.

One use for multiple MS OS installs is to enable a "testbed" or "sandbox"
partition that you can use to test new software before committing it to your
stable OS installation. Clone your XP partition, hide the original
partition from the clone, and use the clone to check things out with
impunity. Sometimes you may need to run this "untrusted" partition for
several days or weeks before you're sure the new software won't screw up
your carefully maintained OS.

I'm no linux expert, but if you plan future partition changes, I think it
might make sense to move your linux space closer to the front of the disk.
If you subsequently add/remove additional partitions to the hard disk, they
could mess with the embedded linux references ("/hda2", "/hda3", etc.) and
perhaps break linux. But if your linux partition is where there will not be
partition changes in front of it, then the embedded references should stay
the same.

 

[Chris]

See if my webpage at www.goodells.net/multiboot helps.

Dan - thanks very much - it helped a lot.
In fact you have restored my faith in Usenet.
You have gone to a lot of trouble - and I appreciate it.

I'm no linux expert, but if you plan future partition changes, I think it
might make sense to move your linux space closer to the front of the disk.
If you subsequently add/remove additional partitions to the hard disk, they
could mess with the embedded linux references ("/hda2", "/hda3", etc.) and
perhaps break linux. But if your linux partition is where there will not be
partition changes in front of it, then the embedded references should stay
the same.

I thought (perhaps wrongly) that all Windows partitions had to go before
the Linux partitions because Windows wouldn't see the Linux partitions.
Is that not so?

 

[I'm Dan]

I thought (perhaps wrongly) that all Windows partitions had to
go before the Linux partitions because Windows wouldn't see
the Linux partitions. Is that not so?

No, the partitions can go in any order. You can even have the extended
partition (if any) in the middle with some primary partition(s) following
it. (I'm not suggesting anyone organize their disk like that, but Windows
wouldn't have a problem with it.) Windows will not be able to access the
linux partition(s), but it will know they are there and simply skip over
them (probably showing up in XP's disk mgmt console as "unknown"
partitions).