Do Not Upgrade XP Pro with Beta 2

[Guest]

If you are running Outlook 2003 and install Vista Beta 2 Business as an
upgrade and try to backup your Outlook file you are in for a rude awakening.
You will lose all the emails that you thought you had backed up and the
original backup file and archive backup will both get corrupted and rendered
useless. I found this out the hard way earlier today. I've lost over $600.00
worth of software that was purchased and downloaded over the past 6 months
because of this MAJOR problem. Without the emails with the order info and
serials, etc. the software cannot be replaced.

The fact that Beta 2 was unleasehed on an unsuspecting and unprepared public
just makes it that much worse. I've been a beta tester since the days of
Windows 3.1 and never experienced anything like this. No more will I defend
Microsoft or its software as I have in the past.

We, as Beta testers, were asked to perform "upgrade scenarios" because Beta
2 was stable enough to do so. That was nothing but a lie. It is not stable by
any stretch of the imagination. Build 5381 was far more stable than Beta 2
and that's unacceptable.

Beware and be warned that Microsoft can no longer be trusted as far as I'm
concerned. And the $5.00 maximum for damages they refer to in the Beta 2 EULA
is a joke for a multi-billion dollar company. I would venture to bet that no
one ever receives one cent for their losses. I know I won't recoup anything
for the losses I have suffered - all my emails from January 2006 through May
2006 are lost forever and most of them were business related correspondence.

I am so stressed out and frustrated at this point, I want nothing to do with
Windows Vista or Microsoft products ever again. I don't feel like the company
can be trusted at all. If/when a class action lawsuit comes out of this
premature release of an unstable beta to the general public, I will be sure
to get in on it as quick as I can.

 

[Todd]

This post is not addressed to the original poster, but to those who may be
considering upgrading their operating systems from XP to Vista Beta 2.

I don't agree with the original poster that losing his data is Microsofts
fault.

Microsoft says the following about Vista Beta 2:

Note: This is beta code and should not be used in a production environment
or on a main machine in the home. Beta 2 is intended for developers, IT
professionals and technology experts to continue or begin their testing of
Windows Vista. Before you decide to use Beta 2, you should feel comfortable
with installing operating systems, updating drivers, and general PC
troubleshooting. Some risks of using beta operating systems include hardware
and software incompatibility and system instability. If you have concerns
about installing this beta software on your computer, we encourage you to
obtain the final release version of Windows Vista when it is available in
2007.

I do agree with the original poster that you should not upgrade a production
or main home machine. If you do decide to upgrade an XP installation with
Vista Beta 2, you must, at a minimum, back-up all data, and it would be
better to image your drive. And if you image your hard drive, ask your self
if you know how to make an image and restore it. In many cases computers
cann0ot be restored from images, because the images were not made correctly.
I blame the imaging software for this. If someone sells imaging software,
it should not depend on a first time user intuiting the exact correct
procedure. But it does. So even if you make an image, copy the data too.

And backups must not be stored on the same partition that you are going to
install Vista on. At a minimum they must be on another partition, and
really they shouldn't be on the same computer. Put the backups on DVDs,
tapes, external hard drives, or on other computers.

Better than upgrading your XP operating system is doing a clean install to
another partition (dual booting), and better than that, is getting a new
hard drive, and putting your old hard drive with your data on it in a drawer
where it will be safe. If you want to upgrade your system, you could use
the copy utility that most drive manufacturers supply, to copy your
operating system from your old disk to the new disk. Then you would have
all your data for testing, and when Vista ate your data, you could just pull
the old drive out of the drawer, and be back in business.

If you do a clean install to another partition, you are still not out of the
woods. Vista does not use boot.sys. It installs its own boot manager to
your XP partition. To go back to XP, you will have to either edit the boot
manager to remove Vista and point it to XP, or delete it and restore the XP
boot.sys.

If you are still considering upgrading your XP system to Vista go through
some of the other posts from people who have lost all their data.

To summarize

Don't upgrade a production or main home machine. Do a clean install to
another partition.

If you decide to upgrade a production or main home machine back it up first.
Back up the data, and then do an image.

A new hard drive is better. Remove your old hard drive from the system to
protect it.

 

[Guest]

Apparently the concept of a backup has escaped you. I have a stand-alone
300GB hard-drive sitting on my desk. Every night a 2:00am, Norton Ghost does
a complete image of my primary drive and puts it on the external drive.
Every morning, I check the status. Call me paranoid or whatever, but I will
never have to write about losing data.

 

[Guest]

I agree...

FWIW - I have installed Vista Beta 2 on my workstation at work (Upgraded
over XP SP2 Corp) and at home (Upgraded over XP SP2 Pro). Both systems are
completely usable and have experienced very few issues related to Vista
programs. In fact using the Aero Theme with Aero Glass itself turned off both
systems are quick and responsive.

Work System - 1ghz PIII - 768meg ram - Geforce 5600 256meg AGP
Home System - 2600+ AMD XP, 1 Gig Ram, Geforce 6200 128meg AGP

The Intel system seems to remain more responsive than my home machine but I
have never had good luck with AMD setups and my home system has been no
exception even with XP installed.

As said before me though.. .this is beta... if you thought it was 100%
stable you had no business downloading the Beta.

This is one of the things I hate about releasing software to the public.

This post is not addressed to the original poster, but to those who may be
considering upgrading their operating systems from XP to Vista Beta 2.

I don't agree with the original poster that losing his data is Microsofts
fault.

Microsoft says the following about Vista Beta 2:

Note: This is beta code and should not be used in a production environment
or on a main machine in the home. Beta 2 is intended for developers, IT
professionals and technology experts to continue or begin their testing of
Windows Vista. Before you decide to use Beta 2, you should feel comfortable
with installing operating systems, updating drivers, and general PC
troubleshooting. Some risks of using beta operating systems include hardware
and software incompatibility and system instability. If you have concerns
about installing this beta software on your computer, we encourage you to
obtain the final release version of Windows Vista when it is available in
2007.

I do agree with the original poster that you should not upgrade a production
or main home machine. If you do decide to upgrade an XP installation with
Vista Beta 2, you must, at a minimum, back-up all data, and it would be
better to image your drive. And if you image your hard drive, ask your self
if you know how to make an image and restore it. In many cases computers
cann0ot be restored from images, because the images were not made correctly.
I blame the imaging software for this. If someone sells imaging software,
it should not depend on a first time user intuiting the exact correct
procedure. But it does. So even if you make an image, copy the data too.

And backups must not be stored on the same partition that you are going to
install Vista on. At a minimum they must be on another partition, and
really they shouldn't be on the same computer. Put the backups on DVDs,
tapes, external hard drives, or on other computers.

Better than upgrading your XP operating system is doing a clean install to
another partition (dual booting), and better than that, is getting a new
hard drive, and putting your old hard drive with your data on it in a drawer
where it will be safe. If you want to upgrade your system, you could use
the copy utility that most drive manufacturers supply, to copy your
operating system from your old disk to the new disk. Then you would have
all your data for testing, and when Vista ate your data, you could just pull
the old drive out of the drawer, and be back in business.

If you do a clean install to another partition, you are still not out of the
woods. Vista does not use boot.sys. It installs its own boot manager to
your XP partition. To go back to XP, you will have to either edit the boot
manager to remove Vista and point it to XP, or delete it and restore the XP
boot.sys.

If you are still considering upgrading your XP system to Vista go through
some of the other posts from people who have lost all their data.

To summarize

Don't upgrade a production or main home machine. Do a clean install to
another partition.

If you decide to upgrade a production or main home machine back it up first.
Back up the data, and then do an image.

A new hard drive is better. Remove your old hard drive from the system to
protect it.

 

[Guest]

You've been beta testing that long and haven't done backups??? It's about
time you had your butt bit if you ask me. No beta test in his right mind
would do anything without backing up. Serves you right. No way in any sense
of the word is this Microsoft's fault. Use your head.

 

[Michael Bryett]

PLEASE somebody shoot this guy

I dont want to even waste any time in trying to help this dude with his
problem which is probably just a permissions issue that he can solve by
taking ownership of the relevant parts of the harddrive.

What a dumass!!!!!

Go back to beta testing 3.1 you frickin idiot you've SO much to learn!!!!!

 

[Todd]

It's easy to become exasperated with people who have ignored all the
warnings, especially those who are now trying to blame someone else for what
they have done, but even if he has only himself to blame, the loss is still
real.

It's probably possible to find, and therefore save at least some of his
data, and maybe most of it. Did Visto save his XP data to windows.old, as
it has for other users?

Does Vista try to do some kind of conversion on the Outlook 2003 .dbx files?
If not, it's hard to see how it could have corrupted them. It's more likely
they are still in the C:\Documents and Settings\User Name\Local
Settings\Identities\{...}\Microsoft\Outlook Express folder, and the Vista
mail utiltiy just doesn't know where it is.

It may still not be too late.

PLEASE somebody shoot this guy

I dont want to even waste any time in trying to help this dude with his
problem which is probably just a permissions issue that he can solve by
taking ownership of the relevant parts of the harddrive.

What a dumass!!!!!

Go back to beta testing 3.1 you frickin idiot you've SO much to learn!!!!!

 

[Guest]

It is not a permissions issue and you are the dumbass for saying so. When a
file goes from over 50MB's in size down to 255KB, that is not a permissions
problem it is a very serious bug. I have been in the tech field and hacking
probably longer than you've been on this planet. You'd best be careful whom
you call a "frickin' idiot". The idiots are people like you who think they
know what they are talking about. To think that I'm terminally ill because I
chose to defend this country with people like you in it is nauseating.

If you're so smart: 1) why can't you spell? and 2) why aren't you helping to
catch all the ID thieves and phishers and hackers? I am using my talents for
that and have gotten quite a few people arrested around the world. What have
you done? Can you drop into an IRC chat without being visible? That's what it
takes in order to catch the real cyber criminals. Can you say that you have
beta tested every operating system since Win 3.1 without any problems until
this major one? Can you tell just by the behavior of your computer whether
there is a root kit present? I can. Can you get into the CIA's main system
without being detected? I have. Do you know how to program in assembler
language? Probably not.

Now go back to your cubicle and leave those of us that know what we are
doing alone.
--
When all else fails....
read the instructions.

PLEASE somebody shoot this guy

I dont want to even waste any time in trying to help this dude with his
problem which is probably just a permissions issue that he can solve by
taking ownership of the relevant parts of the harddrive.

What a dumass!!!!!

Go back to beta testing 3.1 you frickin idiot you've SO much to learn!!!!!

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Please don't turn the instruction of another person into a flame war.

It is not a permissions issue and you are the dumbass for saying so. When
a
file goes from over 50MB's in size down to 255KB, that is not a
permissions
problem it is a very serious bug. I have been in the tech field and
hacking
probably longer than you've been on this planet. You'd best be careful
whom
you call a "frickin' idiot". The idiots are people like you who think they
know what they are talking about. To think that I'm terminally ill because
I
chose to defend this country with people like you in it is nauseating.

If you're so smart: 1) why can't you spell? and 2) why aren't you helping
to
catch all the ID thieves and phishers and hackers? I am using my talents
for
that and have gotten quite a few people arrested around the world. What
have
you done? Can you drop into an IRC chat without being visible? That's what
it
takes in order to catch the real cyber criminals. Can you say that you
have
beta tested every operating system since Win 3.1 without any problems
until
this major one? Can you tell just by the behavior of your computer whether
there is a root kit present? I can. Can you get into the CIA's main system
without being detected? I have. Do you know how to program in assembler
language? Probably not.

Now go back to your cubicle and leave those of us that know what we are
doing alone.
--
When all else fails....
read the instructions.

PLEASE somebody shoot this guy

I dont want to even waste any time in trying to help this dude with his
problem which is probably just a permissions issue that he can solve by
taking ownership of the relevant parts of the harddrive.

What a dumass!!!!!

Go back to beta testing 3.1 you frickin idiot you've SO much to
learn!!!!!

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Please don't flame people in the newsgroup.

PLEASE somebody shoot this guy

I dont want to even waste any time in trying to help this dude with his
problem which is probably just a permissions issue that he can solve by
taking ownership of the relevant parts of the harddrive.

What a dumass!!!!!

Go back to beta testing 3.1 you frickin idiot you've SO much to learn!!!!!

 

[Guest]

FYI: Outlook and Outlook Express do not use the same folders nor are they set
up the same way - for example, Outlook doesn't use identities like Outlook
Express does.

To all of you that have made your accusations and assumptions as to what
happened to my data and my ability to properly back it up:

Put yourself in my shoes for a bit. You've been testing OS's for MS for
years and always keep the second hard drive in your PC for just that purpose.
If there isn't any beta testing then the drive remains empty. You've done a
clean install of Vista Ultimate Build 5381 and installed Office 2003 Standard
to see how it behaves. It works fine and without bugs and the backup program
add-in in Outlook is functioning properly. Along comes Beta 2 with an email
requesting that the upgrade scenario be tested. Past experience with the OS
beta's never had a problem once they had reached the Beta 2 phase and the
fact that this particular beta was also released to the general public
implied that it was quite stable. So you backup everything to DVD's and a
separate hard drive partition from the OS just in case the discs are faulty
or get damaged. You run the Vista ready test program to see what headaches
you should expect form the upgrade and address them. Then you install Beta 2
Business as an upgrade for XP Pro SP2 and start testing things for stability
and security. Everything seems to be functioning as it should but you can't
be sure until you try to backup something and recover it. Since I was going
to reinstall XP I figured that Outlook was the best choice since I had to
back up the emails I had received since installing Beta 2 anyway. That's when
things went awry. The backup acted like it had done what it was supposed to
do but it hadn't. That's when I went searching for the original Outlook files
to see if they could be used and they were corrupted as well. The cause of
the corruption is anybody's guess. I don't know if they were corrupted during
the backup process or when Outlook was closed. I do know that the original
backup file size was 79.8MB and suddenly was down to 255KB.

Regading the data, I searched everywhere for a way to retrieve it and it was
nowhere to be found. The backup files were corrupted for some reason with
this particular build of Vista. I don't know if it's because of the Business
version or what. I do know that I never had any problems with the Ultimate
version on the "test drive" (my second physical hard drive) doing clean
installs. Office 2003 worked fine and I would put it through some tough tests
based on experience with some of my computer illiterate business clients. I
tried to duplicate some of the things that they had done to cause crashes and
mysterious disappearing emails and it performed fine. I accept the blame for
trusting that when asked to test the upgrade scenario I should have known
better than to do so. But we as beta testers have an obligation to the Beta
team as well as the consumer and business that expect this OS to function
properly when they upgrade their systems. Unfortunately, the only way to do
that LEGALLY is to upgrade a legitimate copy of XP Home or Pro. Since you can
only install the OS on one PC and one notebook that means either purchasing
another copy of the OS or breaking the law. I also discovered that there was
a root kit installed on the test drive when I was disecting the OS looking
for what may have caused the Outlook data to have gotten corrupted. Since
there are very limited choices for the security software compatible with
Vista at this point that doesn't surprise me.
--
When all else fails....
read the instructions.

It's easy to become exasperated with people who have ignored all the
warnings, especially those who are now trying to blame someone else for what
they have done, but even if he has only himself to blame, the loss is still
real.

It's probably possible to find, and therefore save at least some of his
data, and maybe most of it. Did Visto save his XP data to windows.old, as
it has for other users?

Does Vista try to do some kind of conversion on the Outlook 2003 .dbx files?
If not, it's hard to see how it could have corrupted them. It's more likely
they are still in the C:\Documents and Settings\User Name\Local
Settings\Identities\{...}\Microsoft\Outlook Express folder, and the Vista
mail utiltiy just doesn't know where it is.

It may still not be too late.

 

[Guest]

Dude, your OWN signature says to RTFM. You claim to be knowledgable, yet you
completely ignored MS's warnings, and then blame them for releasing the beta.
You sicken me.

Did you try an undelete tool scanning your hard drive to see if your old
file could be recovered? If you haven't used the drive much after the
incident, it might not be too late.

I hope your next install goes better.
John

 

[Guest]

Dude,
You sound like me when I was 10. And yes, it's pretty obvious you are lying.

You claim to have hacked the CIA, which is a cyber crime, then brag about
getting cyber criminals arrested. Think a bit before you start typing.

I can understand you are angry, but take the anger out on the 1 person who
has caused your suffering. You.

It is not a permissions issue and you are the dumbass for saying so. When a
file goes from over 50MB's in size down to 255KB, that is not a permissions
problem it is a very serious bug. I have been in the tech field and hacking
probably longer than you've been on this planet. You'd best be careful whom
you call a "frickin' idiot". The idiots are people like you who think they
know what they are talking about. To think that I'm terminally ill because I
chose to defend this country with people like you in it is nauseating.

If you're so smart: 1) why can't you spell? and 2) why aren't you helping to
catch all the ID thieves and phishers and hackers? I am using my talents for
that and have gotten quite a few people arrested around the world. What have
you done? Can you drop into an IRC chat without being visible? That's what it
takes in order to catch the real cyber criminals. Can you say that you have
beta tested every operating system since Win 3.1 without any problems until
this major one? Can you tell just by the behavior of your computer whether
there is a root kit present? I can. Can you get into the CIA's main system
without being detected? I have. Do you know how to program in assembler
language? Probably not.

Now go back to your cubicle and leave those of us that know what we are
doing alone.
--
When all else fails....
read the instructions.

PLEASE somebody shoot this guy

I dont want to even waste any time in trying to help this dude with his
problem which is probably just a permissions issue that he can solve by
taking ownership of the relevant parts of the harddrive.

What a dumass!!!!!

Go back to beta testing 3.1 you frickin idiot you've SO much to learn!!!!!

 

[Ian M. Walker]

Hmm, if you've the smarts to have been a beta tester for so long, why are
you still storing data on your C drive????

LOL


--
Ian M. Walker

http://www.IanMWalker.com

~ Look to your own life before worrying how others are living theirs ~

PLEASE somebody shoot this guy

I dont want to even waste any time in trying to help this dude with his
problem which is probably just a permissions issue that he can solve by
taking ownership of the relevant parts of the harddrive.

What a dumass!!!!!

Go back to beta testing 3.1 you frickin idiot you've SO much to learn!!!!!

 

[Guest]

This link is to the release notes for beta 2. You might find the answer to
your problem here I think....good luck

Setup

* This note applies to Windows Vista.

When you transfer Microsoft Office Outlook® .pst files to a Windows
Vista computer with Windows Easy Transfer, Outlook cannot access them
automatically. The files have been transferred to the new computer and are
located in the equivalent directory. You must manually configure Outlook to
locate the files.


http://download.microsoft.com/download/7/d/8/7d8965b9-4a7c-4510-9987-ffa57c9ad2fe/relnotes.htm

 

[MrVee]

I'm with John on this one. You knew the risks before you updated your
computer with a test product but did it anyway then come with this warning
like you've made some undocumented discovery. Now I don't know how you
upgraded but I did the upgrade option and I lost NOTHING! Not my favorites,
none of my email, a few apps wouldn't run but that was expected but by and
large this "beta" doing an upgrade option worked pretty well. Better than
expected.

Now when you tell your friends about how Microsoft Vista screwed up your
computer and how you lost 600 dollars to boot, make sure you tell the
complete story...that it was a BETA product that YOU elected to install and
that you ignored every warning you get PRIOR to the install.

-MrVee

Dude, your OWN signature says to RTFM. You claim to be knowledgable, yet
you
completely ignored MS's warnings, and then blame them for releasing the
beta.
You sicken me.

Did you try an undelete tool scanning your hard drive to see if your old
file could be recovered? If you haven't used the drive much after the
incident, it might not be too late.

I hope your next install goes better.
John

 

[Guest]

and so am i!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

I'm with John on this one. You knew the risks before you updated your
computer with a test product but did it anyway then come with this warning
like you've made some undocumented discovery. Now I don't know how you
upgraded but I did the upgrade option and I lost NOTHING! Not my favorites,
none of my email, a few apps wouldn't run but that was expected but by and
large this "beta" doing an upgrade option worked pretty well. Better than
expected.

Now when you tell your friends about how Microsoft Vista screwed up your
computer and how you lost 600 dollars to boot, make sure you tell the
complete story...that it was a BETA product that YOU elected to install and
that you ignored every warning you get PRIOR to the install.

-MrVee

Dude, your OWN signature says to RTFM. You claim to be knowledgable, yet
you
completely ignored MS's warnings, and then blame them for releasing the
beta.
You sicken me.

Did you try an undelete tool scanning your hard drive to see if your old
file could be recovered? If you haven't used the drive much after the
incident, it might not be too late.

I hope your next install goes better.
John

 

[2]

Too stupid for a beta OS.

When you help someone like this they will just be back in a few more
days with more stupid question.

This group is being flooded with moronic questions:
How do I get a product key
Where do I get a driver for xyz hardware
Won't install on my lapotop
Won't install on my computer circa 1968
My crappy video card won't run aero glass (the sky is falling)
My crappy sound card doesn't work
Can't figure out how to activate
Will my 16 bit program from 1992 run on Vista
How long can I use Vista Beta
How do I dual boot
I NEED STEP BY STEP INSTRUCTIONS HOW TO GET XP BACK
cannot delete windows.old file

Ignore them, children should only listen to adult conversations, not
be incouraged to join in.

and so am i!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

I'm with John on this one. You knew the risks before you updated your
computer with a test product but did it anyway then come with this warning
like you've made some undocumented discovery. Now I don't know how you
upgraded but I did the upgrade option and I lost NOTHING! Not my favorites,
none of my email, a few apps wouldn't run but that was expected but by and
large this "beta" doing an upgrade option worked pretty well. Better than
expected.

Now when you tell your friends about how Microsoft Vista screwed up your
computer and how you lost 600 dollars to boot, make sure you tell the
complete story...that it was a BETA product that YOU elected to install and
that you ignored every warning you get PRIOR to the install.

-MrVee