Bazza said:I've got a ASUS P4C800-E Deluxe mobo, with 2 SATA HDD's installed. A Pioneer DVD-121 ROM drive is installed as master on the secondary IDE channel and it is the only device on the channel. On the primary IDE is a Plextor Premium CD Burner. It's also the only device on the channel. I'm running WinXP PRO SP1.
I'm not sure of the BIOS version, I know it's not the latest, I think it's 1009 or similar.
Anyway, Device Manager shows the Plextor using Ultra DMA Mode 4, while the Pioneer is using Ultra DMA Mode 2. The Pioneer is SIGNIFICANTLY slower than the Plextor, eg. ripping music.
According to http://www.pioneeraus.com.au/computer/dvd-romdrives/dvd121/index.html, it states the Interface supports:
ATA PIO Mode 4 / Multi Word DMA Mode 2 / Ultra DMA Mode 4
Device manager shows everthing is working OK. WU doesn't have any device updates, etc. There are no Firmware updates listed in the Pioneer sites that I've found. However, I've found a FW DVD region crack that states that it is built on v1.07 ... the Pioneer came with FW v1.02.
As yet I haven't tried swapping cables or similar. Is it even worth trying?
Is this normal? If not, where would the problem most likely be ... the DVD drive (firmware?) or some where else (Driver/BIOS/whatever)?
Cheers
Bazza...
If you're using a 40-wire IDE cable, then it will revert to ATA33 (UDMA
mode 2). So try swapping cables (since the Plextor is running in UDMA
mode 4, it definitely has a proper cable) and upon confirmation, just
get yourself another 40-pin 80-wire cable.
Regards
Nikos
I've got a ASUS P4C800-E Deluxe mobo, with 2 SATA HDD's installed. A =
Pioneer DVD-121 ROM drive is installed as master on the secondary IDE =
channel and it is the only device on the channel. On the primary IDE is =
a Plextor Premium CD Burner. It's also the only device on the channel. =
I'm running WinXP PRO SP1.
I'm not sure of the BIOS version, I know it's not the latest, I think =
it's 1009 or similar.
Anyway, Device Manager shows the Plextor using Ultra DMA Mode 4, while =
the Pioneer is using Ultra DMA Mode 2. The Pioneer is SIGNIFICANTLY =
slower than the Plextor, eg. ripping music.
According to =
http://www.pioneeraus.com.au/computer/dvd-romdrives/dvd121/index.html, =
it states the Interface supports:
ATA PIO Mode 4 / Multi Word DMA Mode 2 / Ultra DMA Mode 4
Device manager shows everthing is working OK. WU doesn't have any =
device updates, etc. There are no Firmware updates listed in the =
Pioneer sites that I've found. However, I've found a FW DVD region =
crack that states that it is built on v1.07 ... the Pioneer came with FW =
v1.02.
As yet I haven't tried swapping cables or similar. Is it even worth =
trying?
Is this normal? If not, where would the problem most likely be ... the =
DVD drive (firmware?) or some where else (Driver/BIOS/whatever)?
Cheers
Bazza...
Check your cabling. There are two types of IDE cables. The older ones
have 40 wires and 40 pin connectors. The newer ones have 80 wires and
40 pin connectors. On the 80 wire one, every second wire is a ground
wire, and this improves the signal quality of the other 40 wires. On
the 40 wire cable, the wires look "fatter" than the wires on the 80
wire cable.
Your computer can tell, most of the time, what kind of cable you are
using. (There is a recipe in one of the ATA/ATAPI standards for how
to tell.) The higher transfer rates are restricted to use with the 80
wire cable. That is a possible reason for the slower operation.
Also, there is a Windows feature, where the transfer rate gets cranked
down, if the system detects problems reading from the device. This
probably isn't your problem, but I've included links anyway.
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/storage/IDE-DMA.mspx
http://www.gmayor.com/cd_writer_udma_mode.htm
HTH,
Paul
I have the same MB and OS and much the same configuration: a Plextor DVD-ROM
as master and only device on the primary IDE channel and a Plextor
DVD-burner on the secondary IDE channel, also as master and only device on
that channel. I get the same UDMA readings as you do: UDMA mode 4 on the
primary channel and mode 2 on the secondary channel. I use Bios vs. 1016. In
the Bios the maximum UDMA mode is autodetected and it is not possible for
the user to change these settings to higher UDMA modes, only to lower ones.
I personally think however, that UDMA mode 2 (33 MB/s) gives quite
sufficient bandwith for optical storage hardware. When you take 16-speed DVD
as an example, the maximum bandwith needed is 16x1380 KB/s = 21.6 MB/s.
Remember this the theoretical max throughput and in the real world the speed
will be (much) lower. In my situation there is no noticable difference in
speed between UDMA 4 (66 MB/s) and UDMA 2 (33 MB/s) for the optical drives.
This is consistent with the fact that only 21.6 MB/s is needed for the
maximum bandwith.
Having said this, I don't understand why the primary channel has a maximum
of UDMA 4 and the secondary of UDMA 2. Opposed to you, my burner is on the
secondary channel and the DVD-ROM drive is on the primary. This means, that
it doesn't seem to matter what kind of optical drive is attached to channel
1 or 2. As a matter of fact I tried to switch the drives and this didn't
make any difference at all: still UDMA mode 4 on the primary channel and
UDMA 2 on the secondary one.
I also have 2 Seagate SATA HD-drives connected to the Intel (not Promise)
SATA connectors (no raid). According to the Bios they work in UDMA mode 5,
while you would expect to see UDMA mode 6 (133 MB/s). Again I don't think
this a problem, because Burst speed for the HD's is about 80 MB/s.
Although I don't think it's a big problem, I am curious about the technical
background. Maybe some of the other experts in this NG can shed some light
on this.
TIA!
Jan
I have the same MB and OS and much the same configuration: a Plextor DVD-ROM
as master and only device on the primary IDE channel and a Plextor
DVD-burner on the secondary IDE channel, also as master and only device on
that channel. I get the same UDMA readings as you do: UDMA mode 4 on the
primary channel and mode 2 on the secondary channel. I use Bios vs. 1016. In
the Bios the maximum UDMA mode is autodetected and it is not possible for
the user to change these settings to higher UDMA modes, only to lower ones.
I personally think however, that UDMA mode 2 (33 MB/s) gives quite
sufficient bandwith for optical storage hardware. When you take 16-speed DVD
as an example, the maximum bandwith needed is 16x1380 KB/s = 21.6 MB/s.
Remember this the theoretical max throughput and in the real world the speed
will be (much) lower. In my situation there is no noticable difference in
speed between UDMA 4 (66 MB/s) and UDMA 2 (33 MB/s) for the optical drives.
This is consistent with the fact that only 21.6 MB/s is needed for the
maximum bandwith.
Having said this, I don't understand why the primary channel has a maximum
of UDMA 4 and the secondary of UDMA 2. Opposed to you, my burner is on the
secondary channel and the DVD-ROM drive is on the primary. This means, that
it doesn't seem to matter what kind of optical drive is attached to channel
1 or 2. As a matter of fact I tried to switch the drives and this didn't
make any difference at all: still UDMA mode 4 on the primary channel and
UDMA 2 on the secondary one.
I also have 2 Seagate SATA HD-drives connected to the Intel (not Promise)
SATA connectors (no raid). According to the Bios they work in UDMA mode 5,
while you would expect to see UDMA mode 6 (133 MB/s). Again I don't think
this a problem, because Burst speed for the HD's is about 80 MB/s.
Although I don't think it's a big problem, I am curious about the technical
background. Maybe some of the other experts in this NG can shed some light
on this.
TIA!
Jan
"Jan" said:Yes Paul, that's what I thought. But when I switched the cables, the problem
remained (see my other posting). Besides that, I am sure both cables are 80
wire ones.
Jan
I've got a ASUS P4C800-E Deluxe mobo, with 2 SATA HDD's installed. A
Pioneer DVD-121 ROM drive is installed as master on the secondary IDE
channel and it is the only device on the channel. On the primary IDE is a
Plextor Premium CD Burner. It's also the only device on the channel. I'm
running WinXP PRO SP1.
Paul said:"Jan" said:Yes Paul, that's what I thought. But when I switched the cables, the problem
remained (see my other posting). Besides that, I am sure both cables are 80
wire ones.
Jan
From your other posting:
I've got a ASUS P4C800-E Deluxe mobo, with 2 SATA HDD's installed. A
Pioneer DVD-121 ROM drive is installed as master on the secondary IDE
channel and it is the only device on the channel. On the primary IDE is a
Plextor Premium CD Burner. It's also the only device on the channel. I'm
running WinXP PRO SP1.
Make sure the IDE is set to "Enhanced". You probably are already using
this to get your two SATA drives on the Southbridge working. The UDMA
mode cannot go any higher than the internal limits of the disk drive,
and as many disk drives use SATA bridge chips, they only do ATA100
internally before the SATA bridge. That is where non-native SATA is a
lie - don't expect to see a miracle until all-native SATA controllers
are introduced, and even then, your burst speed is only used to fill
the cache on the drive. The head rate limits sustained transfer, even
with native SATA. With a Raptor, that is about 70MB/sec.
The IDE operate mode _must_ be set to [S-ATA] when in Enhanced mode.
Otherwise, expect to see slowdowns in the interfaces, first reported
on Abxzone.
Report back what you find.
HTH,
Paul
"Jan" said:"Bazza" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
...
I've got a ASUS P4C800-E Deluxe mobo, with 2 SATA HDD's installed. A
Pioneer DVD-121 ROM drive is installed as master on the secondary IDE
channel and it is the only device on the channel. On the primary IDE is a
Plextor Premium CD Burner. It's also the only device on the channel. I'm
running WinXP PRO SP1.
I'm not sure of the BIOS version, I know it's not the latest, I think it's
1009 or similar.
Anyway, Device Manager shows the Plextor using Ultra DMA Mode 4, while the
Pioneer is using Ultra DMA Mode 2. The Pioneer is SIGNIFICANTLY slower than
the Plextor, eg. ripping music.
According to
http://www.pioneeraus.com.au/computer/dvd-romdrives/dvd121/index.html, it
states the Interface supports:
ATA PIO Mode 4 / Multi Word DMA Mode 2 / Ultra DMA Mode 4
Device manager shows everthing is working OK. WU doesn't have any device
updates, etc. There are no Firmware updates listed in the Pioneer sites
that I've found. However, I've found a FW DVD region crack that states that
it is built on v1.07 ... the Pioneer came with FW v1.02.
As yet I haven't tried swapping cables or similar. Is it even worth trying?
Is this normal? If not, where would the problem most likely be ... the DVD
drive (firmware?) or some where else (Driver/BIOS/whatever)?
Cheers
Bazza...
-----
I should have looked at the Main menu in the BIOS BEFORE I posted the above.
There is shows:
Pri IDE Master: Pioneer
Pri IDE Slave: Empty
Sec IDE Master: Plextor
Sec IDE Slave: Empty
3rd IDE Master: Hitachi HDD (SATA)
4th IDE Master: Hitachi HDD (SATA)
Selecting the Pioneer it shows that it's using UDMA Mode 4, the Plextor:
UDMA Mode 2 and the 2 HDD's: UDMA Mode 5.
So it's the Plextor and NOT the Pioneer. However, taking a looking at the
Plextor site for the Premium and it only supports UDMA Mode 2 !!!
So everything is configured and working correctly.
The only question now is - Why is the Pioneer roughly 4 times slower at
ripping Audio CD's? I thought I was buying a decent brand / DVD drive.
The Pioneer site states the CD Data Transfer Rate at : 2586~ 6000
Kbytes/sec. (17.2X - 40X), I know you don't get this all of the time, but
I'm only getting 5X to 6X.
Being curious, does anyone have any idea why?
Oh well, I would have brought a Plextor DVD-ROM if the were available in
Australia (Plextor US don't sell them any more). Plextor Europe still has
DVD-ROM's on their web site. I *maybe* going to Germany later this year,
I'll look at buying one while I'm there.
Cheers and thanks to all
Barry...
Hi Bazza!
I told you, UDMA-2 is no problem at all for the Plextor to function
according to its specs. There are 2 possiblities now:
1) The Pioneer has a techinal problem
2) You are mistaken about the speed. The standard 1x speed standard for CD
is 150 kB/s, for DVD it's 1380 kB/s (about 9 times faster). There is a
possibility that the reading you get from that program you used is in
DVD-speed terms for the Pioneer(1380 kB/s) and in CD-speed terms for the
Plextor (150 kB/s).
Jan
Two comments.
1) Using a standard "quoting" character, like "> ", makes it easier
to figure out where one post ends, and the next begins. It will
also make it easy for you to converse "in line", i.e. to put
comments right next to someone else's text.
2) For CD/DVD questions, try the http://club.cdfreaks.com forum.
They know everything over there.
HTH,
Paul
...
I should have looked at the Main menu in the BIOS BEFORE I posted the above.
There is shows:
Pri IDE Master: Pioneer
Pri IDE Slave: Empty
Sec IDE Master: Plextor
Sec IDE Slave: Empty
3rd IDE Master: Hitachi HDD (SATA)
4th IDE Master: Hitachi HDD (SATA)
Selecting the Pioneer it shows that it's using UDMA Mode 4, the Plextor:
UDMA Mode 2 and the 2 HDD's: UDMA Mode 5.
So it's the Plextor and NOT the Pioneer. However, taking a looking at the
Plextor site for the Premium and it only supports UDMA Mode 2 !!!
So everything is configured and working correctly.
The only question now is - Why is the Pioneer roughly 4 times slower at
ripping Audio CD's? I thought I was buying a decent brand / DVD drive.
The Pioneer site states the CD Data Transfer Rate at : 2586~ 6000
Kbytes/sec. (17.2X - 40X), I know you don't get this all of the time, but
I'm only getting 5X to 6X.
Being curious, does anyone have any idea why?
Oh well, I would have brought a Plextor DVD-ROM if the were available in
Australia (Plextor US don't sell them any more). Plextor Europe still has
DVD-ROM's on their web site. I *maybe* going to Germany later this year,
I'll look at buying one while I'm there.
Cheers and thanks to all
Barry...
Hi Bazza!
I told you, UDMA-2 is no problem at all for the Plextor to function
according to its specs. There are 2 possiblities now:
1) The Pioneer has a techinal problem
2) You are mistaken about the speed. The standard 1x speed standard for CD
is 150 kB/s, for DVD it's 1380 kB/s (about 9 times faster). There is a
possibility that the reading you get from that program you used is in
DVD-speed terms for the Pioneer(1380 kB/s) and in CD-speed terms for the
Plextor (150 kB/s).
Jan
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