Deployment/Imaging Suggestions Needed

[Guest]

We are a company with approx. 700 users and 900 laptop/desktops to support.
We average about 20 instances a month of new computers or computers needing
to be rebuilt. We are currently using RIS w\ PXE to install very static and
fully inclusive images. In conjunction with the imaging system, we use FAST
before and after to migrate the user’s profile. We then go through and
configure and setup certain specific applications (ex. Lotus Notes). For
asset management and software deployment we use LANDesk with some success.

The process works, but there is an image for every hardware platform, and we
then need to re-image devices when changes in our environment occur, hardware
changes, or even if MS critical updates begin to accumulate. We buy Dell
pretty exclusively, but we vary in models. I have been tasked with coming up
with ideas for improvements to make the systems more automated, quicker, and
more consistent.

Can you guys make some recommendations in regards to what you have found
effective?
Norton? Acronis? SMS? Some combination? Cost is not a significant issue at
this point.

I would guess the goal is to have something that will put a standard image
across as many hardware platforms as possible with the least amount of
touches, and with a minimal amount of images to be stored and contained. In
the case of rebuilt machines, we would want the same thing, but with the
ability to easily and comprehensively migrate the user profile.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Shenan Stanley]

We are a company with approx. 700 users and 900 laptop/desktops to
support. We average about 20 instances a month of new computers or
computers needing to be rebuilt. We are currently using RIS w\ PXE
to install very static and fully inclusive images. In conjunction
with the imaging system, we use FAST before and after to migrate
the user's profile. We then go through and configure and setup
certain specific applications (ex. Lotus Notes). For asset
management and software deployment we use LANDesk with some
success.

The process works, but there is an image for every hardware
platform, and we then need to re-image devices when changes in our
environment occur, hardware changes, or even if MS critical updates
begin to accumulate. We buy Dell pretty exclusively, but we vary in
models. I have been tasked with coming up with ideas for
improvements to make the systems more automated, quicker, and more
consistent.

Can you guys make some recommendations in regards to what you have
found effective?
Norton? Acronis? SMS? Some combination? Cost is not a significant
issue at this point.

I would guess the goal is to have something that will put a
standard image across as many hardware platforms as possible with
the least amount of touches, and with a minimal amount of images to
be stored and contained. In the case of rebuilt machines, we would
want the same thing, but with the ability to easily and
comprehensively migrate the user profile.

Thanks for the help.

Networks..
Pushing the images in a variety of ways.

By CD/DVD...
http://unattended.msfn.org/

By network...
http://unattended.sourceforge.net/

Your other choice might be to create a universal image - but I think you
would get more flexibility with an unattended installation.

http://www.leinss.com/uniimg.html
(See the WinXP Blog addition - imaging with universal image)

http://www.gc.peachnet.edu/www/wbeck/W2KXP.htm#Master
(More on building and ghosting a master image)

 

[Guest]

I simply dont get why these mvp ALWAYS refer everything out of microsofts
web site.....Youre best solution(s),would be at:http://www.microsoft.com/msdn
or at:http://www.microsoft.com/technet If youre doing all this with windows
xp,seems you'd have far more controll with windows server software,its
ability
is almost endless with a pc

 

[Tomasz Chmielewski]

We are a company with approx. 700 users and 900 laptop/desktops to support.
We average about 20 instances a month of new computers or computers needing
to be rebuilt. We are currently using RIS w\ PXE to install very static and
fully inclusive images. In conjunction with the imaging system, we use FAST
before and after to migrate the user’s profile. We then go through and
configure and setup certain specific applications (ex. Lotus Notes). For
asset management and software deployment we use LANDesk with some success.

The process works, but there is an image for every hardware platform, and we
then need to re-image devices when changes in our environment occur, hardware
changes, or even if MS critical updates begin to accumulate. We buy Dell
pretty exclusively, but we vary in models. I have been tasked with coming up
with ideas for improvements to make the systems more automated, quicker, and
more consistent.

Can you guys make some recommendations in regards to what you have found
effective?
Norton? Acronis? SMS? Some combination? Cost is not a significant issue at
this point.

I would guess the goal is to have something that will put a standard image
across as many hardware platforms as possible with the least amount of
touches, and with a minimal amount of images to be stored and contained. In
the case of rebuilt machines, we would want the same thing, but with the
ability to easily and comprehensively migrate the user profile.

Have you tried using WPKG - http://wpkg.org ?

With this tool, you can deploy software/settings etc. to your computers.

It should work for you like that:

1. Use whatever method of your choice to deploy the initial operating
system you want
2. Use WPKG to deploy applications, settings etc.

 

[Shenan Stanley]

I simply dont get why these mvp ALWAYS refer everything out of
microsofts web site.....Youre best solution(s),would be
at:http://www.microsoft.com/msdn or
at:http://www.microsoft.com/technet If youre doing all this with
windows xp,seems you'd have far more controll with windows server
software,its ability
is almost endless with a pc

If it was the best solution, there would not be alternatives, Andrew E.
There are alternatives - most work better than any Microsoft has come up
with and/or they work in conjunction with the solutions Microsoft has.

 

[Adam Leinss]

I simply dont get why these mvp ALWAYS refer everything out of
microsofts web site.....Youre best solution(s),would be
at:http://www.microsoft.com/msdn or
at:http://www.microsoft.com/technet If youre doing all this with
windows xp,seems you'd have far more controll with windows server
software,its ability is almost endless with a pc

Simple: Microsoft covers how something should work and then there are the
"in the trenches" guides how to really get it to work. Microsoft
(specifically Michael Niehaus) does frown on my guide on universal
images, because I force a HAL across all hardware platforms. Guess what?
Works perfectly fine! Did it on ~700 PCs at my last company with Windows
2000 and countless Windows XP machines at the company I'm at now.

There isn't a Microsoft solution for universal images unless you go with
Windows Vista. I'll be damned if I have to maintain 8 images if I can
just getting away with just maintaining one, even if it is not sanctioned
by Microsoft.

If Microsoft solutions are so good, please explain why they bought out
Softricity, Winternals, DesktopStandard, and AssetMetrix and turned it
into the Microsoft Desktop Optimization Pack.

Adam

 

[Darrell Gorter[MSFT]]

Hello Adam,
Manually forcing the hals is really bad thing to do.
This affects items the behavior of items like Power Managment and Plug and
Play.
The systems may appear to work properly but the options that are available
or presented may not be right for the system that it is installed on.
The registry settings around these items may or may not exist plus the
registry settings may exist for multiple types.

This also affects servicing, so any updates that make changes to the
affected files can now not be properly serviced or not serviced at all. The
incorrect hal and associated files may not be updated or may be updated
with the initial version that was used. So options that were available
prior to update are now gone.
This can cause hangs, bluescreens or random other types of problems.
Sure it may boot and appear to work properly, underneath the initial
impressions, there are many problems that can and do occur.
Your OS is in a bad state.
Thanks,
Darrell Gorter[MSFT]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights
--------------------
<Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.setup_deployment
<Subject: RE: Deployment/Imaging Suggestions Needed
<From: Adam Leinss <[email protected]>
<References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<Organization: StudInc
<Message-ID: <[email protected]>
<User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25
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<X-Complaints-To: (e-mail address removed)
<X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly.
<Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 18:06:42 GMT
<Path:
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microsoft.public.windowsxp.setup_deployment:155296
<X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.windowsxp.setup_deployment
<
<<
<> I simply dont get why these mvp ALWAYS refer everything out of
<> microsofts web site.....Youre best solution(s),would be
<> at:http://www.microsoft.com/msdn or
<> at:http://www.microsoft.com/technet If youre doing all this with
<> windows xp,seems you'd have far more controll with windows server
<> software,its ability is almost endless with a pc
<
<Simple: Microsoft covers how something should work and then there are the
<"in the trenches" guides how to really get it to work. Microsoft
<(specifically Michael Niehaus) does frown on my guide on universal
<images, because I force a HAL across all hardware platforms. Guess what?
<Works perfectly fine! Did it on ~700 PCs at my last company with Windows
<2000 and countless Windows XP machines at the company I'm at now.
<
<There isn't a Microsoft solution for universal images unless you go with
<Windows Vista. I'll be damned if I have to maintain 8 images if I can
<just getting away with just maintaining one, even if it is not sanctioned
<by Microsoft.
<
<If Microsoft solutions are so good, please explain why they bought out
<Softricity, Winternals, DesktopStandard, and AssetMetrix and turned it
<into the Microsoft Desktop Optimization Pack.
<
<Adam
<

 

[Adam Leinss]

(e-mail address removed) ("Darrell Gorter[MSFT]") wrote in

Hello Adam,
Manually forcing the hals is really bad thing to do.
This affects items the behavior of items like Power Managment and
Plug and Play.
The systems may appear to work properly but the options that are
available or presented may not be right for the system that it is
installed on. The registry settings around these items may or may
not exist plus the registry settings may exist for multiple types.

Hi Darrell.

Thanks for your concern. I have not experienced any of the problems you
have mentioned. For power management: we leave it at "Always on" and
it seems to work fine. No apparent problems with Plug and Play either.
My web site clearly states that the solution is not Microsoft
recommended. I believe one of the deployment MVPs stated that this
method was used on ~100,000+ PCs worldwide without problems.

I believe this analogous to the following: I have no problem running
an electrical extension cord to power a device. The fire department
and electricians may disagree, stating that this is a fire hazard and
that it's not recommended. In reality, however, it works just fine,
even if it is not the best solution or sanctioned by UL.

P.S. My universal imaging guide is the #2 hotspot on my web site,
second only to my blog. Lots of people are itching for an universal
solution.

Adam

 

[Darrell Gorter[MSFT]]

Hello Adam,
I am glad that it's working for you right now and I understand that a lot
people want this type of solution.
but if they use this and have problems who do they call?
i'ts hard to identify the problems that this can manifest as. So any
random type of issue in the system, hangs, crashes, detection, shutdown,
etc could be as a result. Not saying that they are, but the os is in a
unstable state.
Unfortunately is a very difficult situation to resolve. Windows Vista
resolves the issue.
The more appropriate analogy would be a tire that has been cut multiple
times through most of the treads.
It's still not losing air or leaking however at any point to could go down.
Sure you can still drive on it, but the odds are it's going to cause a
problem sooner that a tire that doesn't have those cuts. it's working but
it could go down at any time. It's adding a lot of risk to a situation
that could potentially cause a serious problem down the road.
Thanks,
Darrell Gorter[MSFT]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights
--------------------
<Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.setup_deployment
<Subject: RE: Deployment/Imaging Suggestions Needed
<From: Adam Leinss <[email protected]>
<References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<#[email protected]>
<Organization: Stud Inc.
<Message-ID: <[email protected]>
<User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25
<X-Flames-To: (e-mail address removed)
<Lines: 33
<X-Complaints-To: (e-mail address removed)
<X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly.
<Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 20:24:57 GMT
<Path:
TK2MSFTNGXA01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTFEEDS02.phx.gbl!msrtrans!m
srn-in!newshub.sdsu.edu!newsfeed.news2me.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.co
m!easynews.com!easynews!easynews-local!fe04.news.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for
-mail
<Xref: TK2MSFTNGXA01.phx.gbl
microsoft.public.windowsxp.setup_deployment:155329
<X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.windowsxp.setup_deployment
<
<[email protected] ("Darrell Gorter[MSFT]") wrote in
<<
<> Hello Adam,
<> Manually forcing the hals is really bad thing to do.
<> This affects items the behavior of items like Power Managment and
<> Plug and Play.
<> The systems may appear to work properly but the options that are
<> available or presented may not be right for the system that it is
<> installed on. The registry settings around these items may or may
<> not exist plus the registry settings may exist for multiple types.
<>
<
<Hi Darrell.
<
<Thanks for your concern. I have not experienced any of the problems you
<have mentioned. For power management: we leave it at "Always on" and
<it seems to work fine. No apparent problems with Plug and Play either.
<My web site clearly states that the solution is not Microsoft
<recommended. I believe one of the deployment MVPs stated that this
<method was used on ~100,000+ PCs worldwide without problems.
<
<I believe this analogous to the following: I have no problem running
<an electrical extension cord to power a device. The fire department
<and electricians may disagree, stating that this is a fire hazard and
<that it's not recommended. In reality, however, it works just fine,
<even if it is not the best solution or sanctioned by UL.
<
<P.S. My universal imaging guide is the #2 hotspot on my web site,
<second only to my blog. Lots of people are itching for an universal
<solution.
<
<Adam
<

 

[Shenan Stanley]

I am glad that it's working for you right now and I understand that
a lot people want this type of solution.
but if they use this and have problems who do they call?
i'ts hard to identify the problems that this can manifest as. So
any random type of issue in the system, hangs, crashes, detection,
shutdown, etc could be as a result. Not saying that they are, but
the os is in a unstable state.
Unfortunately is a very difficult situation to resolve. Windows
Vista resolves the issue.
The more appropriate analogy would be a tire that has been cut
multiple times through most of the treads.
It's still not losing air or leaking however at any point to could
go down. Sure you can still drive on it, but the odds are it's
going to cause a problem sooner that a tire that doesn't have those
cuts. it's working but it could go down at any time. It's adding
a lot of risk to a situation that could potentially cause a serious
problem down the road.

Yes - but it is 5 years of use so far on such solutions and now - a new tire
is coming out that supposedly will have better tools instead of these
hacks/work-arounds.

Most of the time - in the end - all system administrators have for any OS is
their own skill to come up with working solutions. =)

 

[Adam Leinss]

(e-mail address removed) ("Darrell Gorter[MSFT]") wrote in

Hello Adam,
I am glad that it's working for you right now and I understand
that a lot people want this type of solution.
but if they use this and have problems who do they call?
i'ts hard to identify the problems that this can manifest as. So
any random type of issue in the system, hangs, crashes, detection,
shutdown, etc could be as a result. Not saying that they are, but
the os is in a unstable state.

Point noted. In all fairness, I don't think the type of people using
my guide will be calling PSS when it breaks.

Here's an example of Microsoft posting a solution that works, but they
don't support:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q314082

This would be an "in the trenches" solution. They clearly state in the
article:

"Note that although this method might enable the relocated system disk
to start successfully, other hardware differences can lead to other
problems."

You are right: I did run into issues with very old Deskpros when
forcing the ACPI HAL. Changing the HAL to a Standard HAL (the one that
should have picked during setup) fixed the issue.

In closing...yes, I realize that Microsoft really doesn't like this
method and won't support it. I promise to never call PSS about it!

Adam