Dell to Sell Linux PCs

[Stephan Rose]

Widely available stats for the percentage of Linux installs on the
desktop.

What does that have to do with how many PCs Dell sells with a given
operating system?

I still haven't seen a reference...

--
Stephan Rose
2003 Yamaha R6

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[Stephan Rose]

Not really. Driver support for new hardware is still shite. Upgrading
libraries still breaks applications. Setting up shares with Windows is
still a pain in the arse. Dependency hell still exists although Debians
package manager goes towards hiding a lot of that.

Odd then how all my hardware is perfectly supported. =)

--
Stephan Rose
2003 Yamaha R6

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[norm]

And no one thinks this has anything to do with Dell pressuring MS for
better agreements?

LOL.

Lang

Seems like if dell at one time took pressure for ms, then turnabout is
fair play, no?

 

[Conor]

Odd then how all my hardware is perfectly supported. =)

Whooptie friggin do for you.

 

[Stephan Rose]

Whooptie friggin do for you.

Oh and just for clarification:

Processor: Intel E6600 Core 2 Duo
Ram: 2 gig Dual Channel HyperX 800MHz DDR2
Video: nVidia 7800 GT running well with nVidia 97.46 Driver
Hard Drives: 320Gig SATAII, 300 Gig SATA, 300 Gig SATA
DVD/CD Burner with highest possible speeds and every feature there is to
get.
Sound: Audigy 2 ZS

It's not a 5 year old system with outdated hardware. =)

--
Stephan Rose
2003 Yamaha R6

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[Gary VanderMolen]

What does that have to do with how many PCs Dell sells with a given
operating system?

I still haven't seen a reference...

I' sure Dell considers that proprietary information.
But if you want to see some actual desktop usage stats, go to
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
scroll down to the OS Platform Statistics, and you'll see Linux at 3.3%,
Mac at 3.5%, and the rest (93.2%) consists of various Windows flavors.
I don't think MS has anything to worry about.

Gary VanderMolen

 

[Stephan Rose]

I' sure Dell considers that proprietary information.

Then at that point in time his numbers are pulled out of his ass and are
bullshit.

But if you want to see some actual desktop usage stats, go to
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
scroll down to the OS Platform Statistics, and you'll see Linux at 3.3%,
Mac at 3.5%, and the rest (93.2%) consists of various Windows flavors.
I don't think MS has anything to worry about.

So? that is irrelevant. He didn't make a comparison to existing usage
statistics. He made a comparison to Dell sales. Existing usage statics also
include sources other than Dell and sales.

And actually, if Dell does do what they claim it can actually shift that
percentage. Reason why is simple.

Linux at that point in time will be of interest to *anyone* that doesn't
want to shell out 2,000 dollars for a computer high-end enough to run a
reasonable edition of Vista that is not stripped down to the level of
Win2000. Just using W2K because someone mentioned in another thread that
the explorer classic view is W2K's view not XP's view...

Anyone that wants a machine for less than 1,000 bucks just to go check their
e-mail, surf their web, do some word processing, etc. will have interest in
it. Many smaller laptops fall into this category more so than desktops as
they are generally not as good gaming rigs and high-end machines as
Desktops due to the inherent limitations of their size.

That person also does not need Aero (besides, beryl can actually do more) as
it wouldn't even un on that computer (beryl actually might as it runs on
hardware Aero does not). Matter of fact, it wouldn't even be available with
the lowest edition of Vista so it doesn't even matter.

That person does not need DirectX10 as no DX10 Game would actually run on
the system at any playable level.

That person will NOT have any hardware compatibility issues if using linux
because it becomes pre-installed and configured. At the very least not with
the actual computer itself. Peripherals can be a problem in any operating
system.

That person will NOT have any install issues because it is already
installed.

On the bottom line, Vista is not even feasible for that person as that
person doesn't even have any need to buy a machine powerful enough to run
it!

For all those people a computer with Linux on it is a very viable
alternative especially if it comes pre-installed and pre-configured with no
hassle and problems.

Now someone might argue this has come up time and time again with previous
editions of windows. Possibly so. But there is a distinct difference.

Previous editions of windows didn't annihilate the lower end computer users.
I mean XP will run on a 6 year old laptop of ours!! Vista won't. I actually
even have XP running on even older than 6 year desktop machine. Matter of
fact only 2 out of the 9 computers that we have would be able to run Vista
at any reasonable level. All others would either need memory or video
upgrades or would simply not even be possible.

With the exception of that one laptop and desktop, the remaining 7 computers
are all bought or built within the last 24 months.

Vista's high requirements so severely put the low-end users at a
disadvantage that they are going not just going to want an alternative,
they are going to need one.

--
Stephan Rose
2003 Yamaha R6

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[Charlie Wilkes]

It'll last about a month until the Dell forums get filled with shitloads
of rants from disgruntled users who couldn't use X hardware or Y
software.

Conventional wisdom says you're right. But this time might be
different. Linux has gotten a whole lot better over the past couple of
years, whereas Windows has mainly gotten a lot bigger and more expensive.

Charlie

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

Linux has changed a tad since 2000. I, for one, never dreamed I would
even consider Linux until MS did me the favor of accusing me of being a
thief until I prove otherwise THREE times with XP. That motivated me to
try Ubuntu and I was pleasantly surprised on how user friendly it is and
how I can get support without being sneered at by some MVP who is high
on self importance.

Alias

I have had the same experience with Ubuntu... it's easy to install and
use, it is fast and stable, and the peer-to-peer support model has
provided all the help I need. It's vastly different from the experience
I had with Linux a few years ago, when it was hard to configure and
hardware support was sketchy at best.

Charlie

 

[Robert Moir]

Linux has changed a tad since 2000. I, for one, never dreamed I would
even consider Linux until MS did me the favor of accusing me of being
a thief until I prove otherwise THREE times with XP. That motivated
me to try Ubuntu and I was pleasantly surprised on how user friendly
it is and how I can get support without being sneered at by some MVP
who is high on self importance.

You can get sneered at by plenty of "Linux Geeks" if you want to look
around, so I don't see the benefit there myself.

As for the rest of it, I hope Dell go ahead and I hope others join them. I
like choice, even if the choice being pushed is not one I would make myself.
If nothing else, I can buy one of these Linux machines on the cheap, flatten
it and put a fresh install of whatever I want on there without the crudware
dell typically cram onto computers, without feeling like I wasted the cost
of an OEM licence.

 

[Alias]

I' sure Dell considers that proprietary information.
But if you want to see some actual desktop usage stats, go to
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
scroll down to the OS Platform Statistics, and you'll see Linux at 3.3%,
Mac at 3.5%, and the rest (93.2%) consists of various Windows flavors.
I don't think MS has anything to worry about.

Gary VanderMolen

That's what Elvis thought until he got home from Germany. Popularity can
be a fleeting thing.

Alias

 

[Thor]

Microsoft has been number 1 for twenty years.
That's "fleeting"?

 

[Lang Murphy]

I'm not passing judgement either way... just think it could be a case of
Dell rubbing MS's nose in Linux. I suppose Dell wouldn't engage Linux unless
it thought there were good business reasoning behind it. For servers? No
brainer. For workstations and laptops for end users? I have a hard time
believing anyone other than true Linux geeks (and that's intended as a
compliment, btw...) would order a end-user setup with Linux and ultimately
(no pun intended) be happy with it.

Lang

 

[Guest]

Dell Sucks, Linux sucks...ah a match made in hell!

 

[Alias]

Microsoft has been number 1 for twenty years.
That's "fleeting"?

Very when compared, say, to the British Empire or the Moors domination
of the Iberian Peninsula. There was a long time when Spain, for example,
could say that the sun never sets in Spain. We're talking hundreds of
years, chum, not a fleeting twenty.

Alias

 

[Conor]

Conventional wisdom says you're right. But this time might be
different. Linux has gotten a whole lot better over the past couple of
years, whereas Windows has mainly gotten a lot bigger and more expensive.

The thing is, there'll be a ton of "Joe Clueless" AOL types who'll get
Dells with Linux on because "someone told me it doesn't get viruses".
Linux is a whole load better than it was but it's not at a stage where
AOhellers can use it.

Also, they're not as likely to find anyone they know who knows anything
about Linux and from my experience, Linux newsgroups and forums are the
last place to ask as you'll get told to bugger off because you're a
clueless noob who doesn't know how to GREP.

 

[Stephan Rose]

The thing is, there'll be a ton of "Joe Clueless" AOL types who'll get
Dells with Linux on because "someone told me it doesn't get viruses".
Linux is a whole load better than it was but it's not at a stage where
AOhellers can use it.

Also, they're not as likely to find anyone they know who knows anything
about Linux and from my experience, Linux newsgroups and forums are the
last place to ask as you'll get told to bugger off because you're a
clueless noob who doesn't know how to GREP.

Not all that true. I got excellent help when I started working with Kubuntu.
Not a single person told me to bugger off.

How a person asks for help though also generally has a lot to do with that.
Clear, precise and polite questions generally go a lot farther than the
ranting, whining and moaning of a 15yr old AOLer.

I also watched a whole bunch of people sincerely try to help someone new to
the OS who clearly couldn't be helped due to his arrogant and bad attitude.

That person was told to bugger off eventually but...with every right to.

--
Stephan Rose
2003 Yamaha R6

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[Nina DiBoy]

I'm not passing judgement either way... just think it could be a case of
Dell rubbing MS's nose in Linux. I suppose Dell wouldn't engage Linux
unless it thought there were good business reasoning behind it. For
servers? No brainer. For workstations and laptops for end users? I have
a hard time believing anyone other than true Linux geeks (and that's
intended as a compliment, btw...) would order a end-user setup with
Linux and ultimately (no pun intended) be happy with it.

Lang

They are so far only doing certifications for desktop/laptop machines
for Suse/Novell who is in bed with MS. Note that this is not installs
or support. Until I see Dell engaging a linux variant other than
Suse/Novell for desktop/laptop machines, I'm going to see this as Dell
dropping trousers and bending over the table for MS.



--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

Most recent idiotic quote added to KICK (Klassic Idiotic Caption Kooks):
"You can get dog shi* for free also!"

"Good poets borrow; great poets steal."
- T. S. Eliot

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

The thing is, there'll be a ton of "Joe Clueless" AOL types who'll get
Dells with Linux on because "someone told me it doesn't get viruses".
Linux is a whole load better than it was but it's not at a stage where
AOhellers can use it.

I have installed Ubuntu on a couple of machines at this point, and didn't
run into any problems with the installation or using the basic features.
An old lady could have done it.

In fact, it was easier than a Windows install. I didn't have to install
the OS and then install proprietary chipset drivers, video card drivers,
and audio drivers as is usually necessary with Windows.

Also, they're not as likely to find anyone they know who knows anything
about Linux and from my experience, Linux newsgroups and forums are the
last place to ask as you'll get told to bugger off because you're a
clueless noob who doesn't know how to GREP.

That is not the experience I had. Ubuntu has a web forum called
"Absolute Beginner Talk" where I had someone patiently walk me through
the process of installing Beryl (4 or 5 posts back and forth, including
detailed instructions about what to install and how to edit xorg.conf)
and I also got help with a couple of other issues.

I'm not slavishly loyal to Ubuntu, because I've only been using it for a
couple of months, but it looks a hell of a lot better than Linux did the
last time I dipped my toes in the water.

Charlie

 

[Gary VanderMolen]

Very when compared, say, to the British Empire or the Moors domination
of the Iberian Peninsula. There was a long time when Spain, for example,
could say that the sun never sets in Spain. We're talking hundreds of
years, chum, not a fleeting twenty.

That has got to be a prime example of a logical fallacy known as
a red herring. We were discussing computer operating systems, not
ancient empires.

Gary VanderMolen