Defrag and Chkdsk issue not yet resolved?

[Guest]

I've read about 8 threads on this problem but none has come up with a
solution. I am trying to defrag a PC running XP Pro, SP1. In 3 years, it has
never been defragged to my knowledge. The user complains about slow startup.
When I log on as admin and try to defrag, I get the message that Chkdsk is
scheduled to run and I must run Chkdsk/f. Yet, there are no scheduled tasks.
On my own PC, same age, same O/S,I log on as admin and can run defrag with no
problems. Both PCs on the same network, with same anti-virus and Windows
updates. No special spyware or other progs are installed on the problem PC -
it can't even go out to the internet.
After reading all the threads on this topic, I'm lost. Suggestions have
included to defrag in safe mode, to change registry settings, to run Chkdsk
from cmd and reboot, etc. No one with the problem has posted to say it was
resolved.
Bottom line: Does this message indicate a disk error? Can I just ignore it?
Does the problem lie with disk defrag in XP? An awful lot of people seem to
be experiencing it, some apparently after having been able to defrag in the
past.
Advice appreciated!

 

[Ronnie Vernon MVP]

Go to the following website, scroll down to Line 82, "Disable or Enable Check Disk upon boot" and click the Disable link to download the file to the Desktop. Double click the downloaded file and confirm the registry merge.

Troubleshooting Windows XP, Tweaks and Fixes for Windows XP:
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_tweaks.htm

 

[cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)]

On Fri, 7 Jul 2006 09:51:01 -0700, Peggy

I am trying to defrag a PC running XP Pro, SP1. In 3 years, it has
never been defragged to my knowledge. The user complains about slow startup.

Before we zoom in on defragging, I'd want to make sure the system is
stable, and the hardware is OK.

If it's slow all the time (rather than just on startup, then there may
well be problems with the hard drive at a physical level. Such
problems put the contents of the hard drive at risk and make it very
dangerous to defrag (in fact, any instability or bad hardware makes
defrag far to dangerous to attempt).

A sick hard drive slows down the system in the following ways:
- multiple attempts to read or write failing sectors
- attempts to auto-relocate data from failing sectors
- XP will drop to slower methods of using the hard drive
- these slower methods require more processor effort (PIO vs. UDMA)

If only the startup (and perhaps shutdown) is slow, then the cause may
be related to software that is set to start up with Windows. OTOH, a
defrag may help this problem, especially if none done for years,
because it can move frequently-used code to the start of the HD.

So my approach would be:
- verify hardware is OK and system is stable
- run the Disk Cleanup to de-clutter and free space
- reduce Internet Explorer web cache to (say) 20M
- repeat the above step for every user account
- do the defrag

When I log on as admin and try to defrag, I get the message that Chkdsk is
scheduled to run and I must run Chkdsk/f. Yet, there are no scheduled tasks.

ChkDsk (or rather, AutoChk) is set up to run when Windows starts by a
different mechanism; specifically, by setting a "dirty" bit within the
file system itself. When Windows starts, it sees that this bit is
set, and runs AutoChk early in the boot process, before Windows is
banging away at the disk - often the only way to "fix" C:

Bottom line: Does this message indicate a disk error? Can I just ignore it?
Does the problem lie with disk defrag in XP? An awful lot of people seem to
be experiencing it, some apparently after having been able to defrag in the
past. Advice appreciated!

My main concern is that there may be a problem that is one/more of:
- corrupting the file system
- causing bad shutdowns (thus leaving "dirty" bit set)
- failing hard drive (sets a different bit to trigger "ChkDsk /r")

Any of the above would make me not want to risk a defrag!

To check the hard drive for physical defects, I'd use HT Tune (all
tests, any bad sectors = Bad) from www.hd-tune.com

------------ ----- --- -- - - - -

Drugs are usually safe. Inject? (Y/n)

 

[meherlahashbaz]

On Fri, 7 Jul 2006 09:51:01 -0700, Peggy


Before we zoom in on defragging, I'd want to make sure the system is
stable, and the hardware is OK.

If it's slow all the time (rather than just on startup, then there may
well be problems with the hard drive at a physical level. Such
problems put the contents of the hard drive at risk and make it very
dangerous to defrag (in fact, any instability or bad hardware makes
defrag far to dangerous to attempt).

A sick hard drive slows down the system in the following ways:
- multiple attempts to read or write failing sectors
- attempts to auto-relocate data from failing sectors
- XP will drop to slower methods of using the hard drive
- these slower methods require more processor effort (PIO vs. UDMA)

If only the startup (and perhaps shutdown) is slow, then the cause may
be related to software that is set to start up with Windows. OTOH, a
defrag may help this problem, especially if none done for years,
because it can move frequently-used code to the start of the HD.

So my approach would be:
- verify hardware is OK and system is stable
- run the Disk Cleanup to de-clutter and free space
- reduce Internet Explorer web cache to (say) 20M
- repeat the above step for every user account
- do the defrag


ChkDsk (or rather, AutoChk) is set up to run when Windows starts by a
different mechanism; specifically, by setting a "dirty" bit within the
file system itself. When Windows starts, it sees that this bit is
set, and runs AutoChk early in the boot process, before Windows is
banging away at the disk - often the only way to "fix" C:


My main concern is that there may be a problem that is one/more of:
- corrupting the file system
- causing bad shutdowns (thus leaving "dirty" bit set)
- failing hard drive (sets a different bit to trigger "ChkDsk /r")

Any of the above would make me not want to risk a defrag!

To check the hard drive for physical defects, I'd use HT Tune (all
tests, any bad sectors = Bad) from www.hd-tune.com



Drugs are usually safe. Inject? (Y/n)

Yes , there are times when a drive can start failing, and
progress in a steady progressive rate (kind of like fruit
blight.

I had a similar instance, but was able to verify it as a
failing data cable (on back of the drive - the one between
the controller and the drive). Now I have all IO to CD and
HD thru one controller channel (primary). All seems well if
I could only get rid of "Data execution prevention" all
would be fine.

 

[Guest]

Thanks for your thorough answer. The users are only complaining about slow
startup. Shutdown is quick. To be honest, I assumed this was impatient users
who tried to open programs as soon as the desktop appeared, before everything
had finished loading. Furthermore, they are trying to open an ODBC connection
on a remote server, and the first connection after booting up is always slow
- that's true for every PC on the network. However, I thought I should at
least check it out and do some system maintenance. That's where I ran into
the defrag error message. Now I'm more concerned about the inability to run
system tools than about slow startup that may be related to users not waiting
long enough.

I've told the users to wait a full 2 minutes after they first see the
desktop, and if the hourglass appears when they highlight a desktop shortcut,
to wait longer. I will also ask them to let me know if slowness recurs
throughout the day.

I already performed disk cleanup and will follow your suggestions re IE
cache. I will check out the HT Tune site. If HT Tune doesn't detect any
problems, and I still can't run defrag, I'll post again. After reading about
all the suggested fixes for the specific message I'm getting, none of which
seem to be working for anyone else, I'm a bit leery to try anything. Don't
want to make the problem worse than it is.

Thanks again.

Peggy

 

[Guest]

Thanks for replying. I visited this site after seeing it mentioned on a few
other threads. I'm going to check out the HD per another suggestion on this
thread first, then if defrag still won't run, will look into this again. To
be honest, I was a little confused about this.

Thanks,

Peggy

 

[Guest]

On Fri, 7 Jul 2006 09:51:01 -0700, Peggy


Before we zoom in on defragging, I'd want to make sure the system is
stable, and the hardware is OK.

If it's slow all the time (rather than just on startup, then there may
well be problems with the hard drive at a physical level. Such
problems put the contents of the hard drive at risk and make it very
dangerous to defrag (in fact, any instability or bad hardware makes
defrag far to dangerous to attempt).

A sick hard drive slows down the system in the following ways:
- multiple attempts to read or write failing sectors
- attempts to auto-relocate data from failing sectors
- XP will drop to slower methods of using the hard drive
- these slower methods require more processor effort (PIO vs. UDMA)

If only the startup (and perhaps shutdown) is slow, then the cause may
be related to software that is set to start up with Windows. OTOH, a
defrag may help this problem, especially if none done for years,
because it can move frequently-used code to the start of the HD.

So my approach would be:
- verify hardware is OK and system is stable
- run the Disk Cleanup to de-clutter and free space
- reduce Internet Explorer web cache to (say) 20M
- repeat the above step for every user account
- do the defrag


ChkDsk (or rather, AutoChk) is set up to run when Windows starts by a
different mechanism; specifically, by setting a "dirty" bit within the
file system itself. When Windows starts, it sees that this bit is
set, and runs AutoChk early in the boot process, before Windows is
banging away at the disk - often the only way to "fix" C:


My main concern is that there may be a problem that is one/more of:
- corrupting the file system
- causing bad shutdowns (thus leaving "dirty" bit set)
- failing hard drive (sets a different bit to trigger "ChkDsk /r")

Any of the above would make me not want to risk a defrag!

To check the hard drive for physical defects, I'd use HT Tune (all
tests, any bad sectors = Bad) from www.hd-tune.com

Update on this problem: I was able to resolve the slow startup by disabling
the HP updates software from loading at startup. The defrag error remains.

Before going to HDTune, I tried to run chdsk, since I had not actually gone
to that step. I was unable to get it to run with either the f, r or c
switches. I got the message that errors were found and chkdsk was unable to
continue in read-only mode.

Does this mean there is definitely a problem with the HD? Performance seems
OK and it's not making any funny sounds. Is it safe to run HD Tune? Why will
a 3rd party app work when the Windows error check will not?

Thanks again for your help.

Peggy