Deafening Silence

[Pat Garard]

FIRST POSTED AUG 16, 2003 - Windows XP TCP/IP - ISP Issues with an
attachment.

1 reply to Group, 4 responses by e-mail (all experiencing similar problems)
and a Deafening Silence from Microsoft!

The attachment is now included in full (below).

Pat Garard
Australia
=============== Begin Original Attachment =====================
Telstra (Australia) ISP Connectivity - TCP/IP Issues


I am comparing the behaviour of Telstra (Australia) LaunchPad under Windows
XP, with that under Windows 2000. In both cases the IP address is obtained
using Telstra DHCP and DNS.



For the purposes of comparison during testing, I have used the generic ISP
software called BPALogin.



There appear to be some issues with Windows XP TCP/IP.



Windows 2000


Telstra LaunchPad (Proprietary connectivity tool) could be set up to start
in "Startup" and auto-connect to Telstra consistently and without problems.
This was entirely transparent to the User.



Windows XP Professional - After upgrade


Telstra LaunchPad could be set up to start in "Startup" but auto-connect to
Telstra consistently failed.



It was necessary to remove LaunchPad from "Startup", and always to manually
start LaunchPad after User Startup was complete (little or no disk activity
after services had started). This usually worked ok, but the connection
would "drop out" 2 to 3 times per session of about 7 hours. LaunchPad would
show "Connected", and a Network Connection "Repair" would normally restore
service.



Windows XP Professional - After IIS and ActiveSync


There are two (2) Network connections: ISP via Cable Modem and 10Mbs-1
Ethernet Card, and ActiveSync via COM1 and Direct Cable (VPN).



Immediately after User Startup but before connection:



It could be seen (in a command window) that ping and ftp have access to DNS,
on the Telstra Network, and that ftp is capable of remote access on the
Telstra WAN - the lower layers of the OSI Model are working as expected.



Two ISP Connectivity Tools are available:

Telstra LaunchPad

BPALogin

(BUT NEITHER IS YET RUNNING).



Windows Messenger will not Sign In.

Using Telstra LaunchPad


It connects to Telstra, but with a time lag of 10-15 seconds, however:



Windows Messenger is unable to Sign In (error message)...



There is no Internet Access via Internet Explorer (Page not Found in IE 6)..



And no e-mail Send/Receive in Outlook (Pop Server Error Window)..



For the purpose of discussion, I have arbitrarily named this state the
Stagnation State. The Upper layers of the OSI Model appear to be denied
access to the Middle Layers, even though it appears that the Session Layer
is ok. This ALWAYS occurs after User Login & User Startup.



It can also occur spontaneously - up to 4 or 5 times per day, usually
signalled by the Outlook Error Message, since Outlook is usually left
running Minimised.



Try a repair:



MsgBox:

"The following steps of the repair operation failed:

Flushing the ARP cache."

..however, in terms of the OSI Model, all Layers seem to be working ok, so
the repair has worked.



To avoid the repair error issue, I have created a batch file REPAIR.BAT,
with a shortcut on the Desktop. This file essentially executes the commands:

arp -d

ipconfig /release

ipconfig /renew.



REPAIR is executed manually:

a.. immediately after User Startup, before using ISP connectivity
software.
(After REPAIR, LaunchPad connects in less than 2 seconds).

a.. each time Stagnation occurs spontaneously.


Using BPALogin


There is no substantial performance difference or advantage over LaunchPad.

Stagnation


Stagnation can therefore be defined as a Windows TCP/IP State in which:



TCP/IP tools, such as ping and ftp, can reach out over the Telstra WAN,
indicating that the Lower OSI Layers are operating as expected.



Both ISP connectivity programmes will connect and disconnect BUT with a 10
to 15 second lag.



Neither program seems "aware" of Stagnation, nor are Session Errors
generated.



No Application Level program, requiring transport services via the Session
Layer, will operate correctly - Outlook, Internet Explorer, Windows
Messenger nor any other.



Normal OSI Middle Layer Services can usually be restored by executing
REPAIR.BAT (without disconnecting).



This Windows State is ALWAYS attained after User Login/Startup. REPAIR is
always necessary, after which either ISP Connectivity programme will connect
in less than 2 seconds and the Network performs correctly.



This Windows State occurs spontaneously 4 to 5 times during a 7-8 hour
login, at intervals varying from a few minutes to over two hours



This Windows State is signalled by Application Errors.



Discussion


The IP address appears to be acquired early in the System Startup process,
and, by the time
User Startup is complete, some portion(s) of the TCP/IP Stack enter(s) a
so-called Stagnation State and require(s) "Repair".



This Windows Stagnation State also arises spontaneously 4 to 5 times each
day, regardless of the ISP connectivity software used.



The Operating Procedure is to execute REPAIR.BAT after User Startup is
complete, and then Run LaunchPad.



The Operating Procedure is to also execute REPAIR.BAT whenever Stagnation
occurs.



Recommended Microsoft Action


Identify and fix so-called Windows Stagnation State.



Fix Network Connection Repair error(s).



Recommended Telstra Action


Better detection of the so-called Stagnation State and, possibly, initiate
"repair" of Network Connection.



=============== End Original Attachment ===========================

 

[Perdita X. Nitt]

Pat Garard wrote:

*This is not Microsoft tech support* - this is a peer-to-peer newsgroup. If
you wish to contact MS support then please do so using the appropriate
number.

 

[Pat Garard]

"Hi Mara,

It appears your computer has been infected with the Blaster virus. For more
information and how to fix this please see follow this link:

http://www.microsoft.com/security/incident/blast.asp

http://www.microsoft.com/security/protect/main.asp

Thanks,
Marc Reynolds
Microsoft Technical Support

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
"

 

[Pat Garard]

"Hi Robert,

You can go to Start/Run and type cmd. In the resulting command window type
netstat -ano and you will get a list of all listening ports and ports in
use.

Thanks,
Marc Reynolds
Microsoft Technical Support

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
"

 

[jym]

MS Pat ,

With you stupid response you have proven that you are bogus and appear
to be quite a idiot. Jym

 

[Shenan T. Stanley]

*This is not Microsoft tech support* - this is a peer-to-peer
newsgroup. If you wish to contact MS support then please do so
using the appropriate number.

Grazie Perdita,

Many Posts in this Group are acknowleged, and responded to by
Microsoft Support.

The Network_web group has many posts with similar symtoms to this -
all ignored.

I have simply stated the facts - I am very sorry if it stung.

Pat Garard
Australia

MS support never responds in this newsgroup. A MS employee might
respond on their own. Jym

"Hi Robert,

You can go to Start/Run and type cmd. In the resulting command window
type netstat -ano and you will get a list of all listening ports and
ports in use.

Thanks,
Marc Reynolds
Microsoft Technical Support

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights. "

Pat,

If you did not notice, they add the "This posting is provided "AS IS" with
no warranties, and confers no rights." to the end of their messages usually
because, AS STATED - they are replying as themselves - not as official
representatives of Microsoft - and their responses should be taken as such.

Not to mention - have you READ your own post? It's almost a thesis.
Perhaps if you got more to a question/point and less into details in the
beginning, more people might answer. I have read through it twice now.
What do you WANT as a response?

You seem to have a problem with the way your server is giving out IPs? You
are basing everything off of a test with one cable company. I have been
through two different cable modems, a T1 connection through a router and a
DSL connection and have never seen a difference between the connectivity of
Windows XP and Windows 2000. Perhaps it would be better to find out what is
different about "Telstra LaunchPad" instead of what's wrong with Windows XP?

 

[Pat Garard]

Thank you Shenan,

Thank you for reading; thank you for responding.

I appear to have upset you - and I am truly sorry!

It's a "thesis" simply because I investigated the problem as thoroughly as
was possible in the circumstances, before crying for help!

I also spent a great deal of time exploring the Knowlegebase and the
newsgroup; many people are experiencing difficulty with workgroups, with
network shares, with ftp, a few have tried ping - its a long list of
problems.

In a nutshell: - THERE ARE NETWORK PROBLEMS WITH XP THAT WERE NOT EVIDENT IN
Win 2000 - doing the same things, with the same settings, the same tools and
the same software.

I would respecfully add that everything Microsoft (and other software
vendors) provides is "AS IS", as indeed is sensible. I draw no inference
thereby.

With Respect,

Pat Garard
Autsralia

 

[Rob Schneider]

Pat,

I re-read again your original post. It seems that your evidence suggests
that Telstra Launchpad, a 3rd party bit of software, works differently
on Windows 2000 than it works on Windows XP. May well be true. Does
Telstra developers have a comment?

I realise your stated purpose is to test Telstra (first sentance) ...
yet the conclusion you draw from the test is that Microsoft XP has a
soi-called "stagnation state" TCP/IP stack problem. That wasn't the
hypothesis, was it?

In order to truly test XP, have you tried it on a "fresh" install of
XP--without any additional programs--following the instructions provided
by XP using server config info provided by the ISP (Telstra?).

 

[Pat Garard]

Hi Rob,

The "thesis" is only part of a 30-page Word Document that I kept as a
running sheet of my xp install and experience.

It has been supplied to MS Support in Australia.

1. The PC (Packard-Bell) was purchased Dec 2002, with XP Home installed.

As part of the purchase, I took an OEM version of XP Pro and Office Xp Pro -
I'm actually a Microsoft fan with years of experience training and
consulting in Windows/Office (2.3? to 2000)/Project/Front Page/Visio/VBA -
esp Access.

The series of events is as follows:
2. Upgrade Xp Home to Xp Pro.
3. Connect to old Win 2000 PC with Xover cable/WorkGroup Network connection,
and copy important DATA (eg My Documents) - no probs!
4. Disconnect/delete Network connection. (Sell old PC!)
5. Establish ISP Network connection and, using ftp, download and install
"LaunchPad".
6. Problems immediately experienced - AS DESCRIBED!

Office was installed, together with other packages from time to time. ALL
Windows UpdateS have been installed as they became available.

All other issues (and there were quite a few) I have resolved.

Later I added IIS and ActiveSynch and the problems got Worse - AS DESCRIBED.

I could go on, but 'll leave it at that for now.

Thank you for responding.

Respectfully,

Pat Garard
Australia

 

[Pat Garard]

The Goon Show (Radio) was very popular in Britain (you're probably not old
enough). There were Harry SeaGoon, Neddy, Minnie and a few others .... Ah
Yes! Jym!

"Stop the Bomb - I want to get off!!"

Joyfully,

Pat Garard
Australia

PS I hope you're walking backwards to Christmas!
Ying Tong, Ying Tong, Ying Tong, Ying Tong, Ying Tong Iddle I Po!

 

[Pat Garard]

Cara Perdita,

Vedo che siete ben noti su questo gruppo di notizie!



Filetti cancellati pure! Pozzo!



Sono sicuro che andrete lontano - ed ulteriore il migliore!



Viaggio Di Bon, Mi Cula Brava!



Rispettoso,



Picchiettio Garard

L'Australia

 

[Pat Garard]

The Goon Show (Radio) was very popular in Britain (you're probably not old
enough). There were Harry SeaGoon, Neddy, Minnie and a few others .... Ah
Yes! Jym!

"Stop the Bomb - I want to get off!!"

Joyfully,

Pat Garard
Australia

PS I hope you're walking backwards to Christmas!
Ying Tong, Ying Tong, Ying Tong, Ying Tong, Ying Tong Iddle I Po!

Sorry for the late response - You were one of the loose ends at the
end of the day.

 

[Rob Schneider]

quite a lot of complexity and add-ons ...

Hi Rob,

The "thesis" is only part of a 30-page Word Document that I kept as a
running sheet of my xp install and experience.

It has been supplied to MS Support in Australia.

1. The PC (Packard-Bell) was purchased Dec 2002, with XP Home installed.

As part of the purchase, I took an OEM version of XP Pro and Office Xp Pro -
I'm actually a Microsoft fan with years of experience training and
consulting in Windows/Office (2.3? to 2000)/Project/Front Page/Visio/VBA -
esp Access.

The series of events is as follows:
2. Upgrade Xp Home to Xp Pro.
3. Connect to old Win 2000 PC with Xover cable/WorkGroup Network connection,
and copy important DATA (eg My Documents) - no probs!
4. Disconnect/delete Network connection. (Sell old PC!)
5. Establish ISP Network connection and, using ftp, download and install
"LaunchPad".
6. Problems immediately experienced - AS DESCRIBED!

Office was installed, together with other packages from time to time. ALL
Windows UpdateS have been installed as they became available.

All other issues (and there were quite a few) I have resolved.

Later I added IIS and ActiveSynch and the problems got Worse - AS DESCRIBED.

I could go on, but 'll leave it at that for now.

Thank you for responding.

Respectfully,

Pat Garard
Australia



EVIDENT IN

 

[Pat Garard]

Cara Perdita,

Vedo che siete ben noti su questo gruppo di notizie!
Filetti cancellati pure! Pozzo!
Sono sicuro che andrete lontano - ed ulteriore il migliore!
Viaggio Di Bon, Mia Culo Bravo!

Rispettoso,

Picchiettio Garard
L'Australia

PS Sorry for the late reply - you were one of the loose ends at the end
of the day.

 

[Perdita X. Nitt]

Cara Perdita,

Vedo che siete ben noti su questo gruppo di notizie!
Filetti cancellati pure! Pozzo!
Sono sicuro che andrete lontano - ed ulteriore il migliore!
Viaggio Di Bon, Mia Culo Bravo!

Rispettoso,

Picchiettio Garard
L'Australia

PS Sorry for the late reply - you were one of the loose ends at
the end of the day.

May I ask why on earth are you replying to me in Italian? I am not Italian,
do not speak Italian (other than musical terminology) and wonder what on
earth gave you the impression that I was/did?!

 

[Pat Garard]

Why complain, when you are getting the attention you so crave!
How eagerly you snap up every crumb I feed!
How bravely you "strut and fret your hour upon the stage" in your anonymity
(http://www.io.com/~jlockett/Grist/English/macbethsources.html,
http://web.singnet.com.sg/~yisheng/notes/shakespeare/mbeth_f.htm)!
So much about you is fake, you are probably in Drag!

But enough is ENOUGH!

I am leaving you, Sweet Perdita. I have found another Woman, to whom I shall
be forever faithful for her name is "Wisdom".
You shall remain a lost, lovely, lonely, longing, languorous, lascivious
and loose end!

Your very own

DEAFENING SILENCE

 

[Pat Garard]

Rob,

Until three years ago, I was running Small Business Server 4.5 with two
clients. The Server had Exchange Server, SQL Server (Enterprise), IIS
Server, Microsoft Project Central and the Visual Studio 6 Servers (InterDev,
SourceSafe etc). It had two NICs, one for the local Domain (Fixed IP) and
one ISP/Cable Modem (DHCP). A number of ODBC Sources were defined. Small
Business Server does not support a mix of fixed and DHCP served addresses -
but, with some tweaking, it worked just fine.

One client ran Win NT 4, Office 2.3 and Office 95/ Front Page 98 and Project
98 etc, and Other 3rd Party Software.

The other ran Win 2000, Office 97, Office 2000 (Developer Ed)/Project 2000,
Visual Studio 6.0, and Other 3rd Party Software.

That was a little complex, rarely gave problems and gave me a huge resource
base for the business. I had, by then, begun to wind down for early
retirement.

Since then, and until Dec 2002, I ran a Single PC (the second client from
above, removed from its domain with surgical precision to avoid data loss) -
with Win 2000, Office 2000 (Dev), Visual Studio 6, FS 2000 Pro etc and
Other 3rd Party Software - not terribly complex and virtually trouble free.

My current set-up, already described, is in no way substantially different
from that on Win 2000, but has given many small problems, and a few larger
issues - all but 1 (one) resolved; and, from my perspective, not terribly
complex at all.

Win Xp has a new feel, some exiting changes and enough minor problems to
keep Kellys Korner quite busy (I was one of the early Program Icon losers).

Its TCP/IP behaviour has a quite different feel from that of Windows 2000
and, for me, remains an issue.

Regards,

Pat Garard
Australia

 

[Guy Worthington]

"Pat Garard" launched a sneak attack

[snippets of Pat Garard's email have been rearranged and taken out of
context to suit my own ends]

How bravely you "strut and fret your hour upon the stage" in your anonymity
(http://www.io.com/~jlockett/Grist/English/macbethsources.html ...

Far far worse than posting a message ahead of time, or posting a message
in all caps with no punctuation, or top posting, or any other crime
on usenet IS QUOTING SHAKESPEARE!

enough is ENOUGH!

But it wasn't enough for you. Not only did you use the bard to launch
a pre-emptive salvo, YOU QUOTED FROM THE SCOTTISH PLAY. What sociopath
would use such weapons of mass destruction?

I'm so cross that I've half a mind to snipe at you with irrelevant quotes
from John Milton.

PS Sorry for the late reply - you were one of the loose ends at
the end of the day.

And you're one of the loose cannons at the end of mine.

 

[Pat Garard]

Sorry Guy,

Sadaam
Australia

"Pat Garard" launched a sneak attack

[snippets of Pat Garard's email have been rearranged and taken out of
context to suit my own ends]

How bravely you "strut and fret your hour upon the stage" in your anonymity
(http://www.io.com/~jlockett/Grist/English/macbethsources.html ...

Far far worse than posting a message ahead of time, or posting a message
in all caps with no punctuation, or top posting, or any other crime
on usenet IS QUOTING SHAKESPEARE!

enough is ENOUGH!

But it wasn't enough for you. Not only did you use the bard to launch
a pre-emptive salvo, YOU QUOTED FROM THE SCOTTISH PLAY. What sociopath
would use such weapons of mass destruction?

I'm so cross that I've half a mind to snipe at you with irrelevant quotes
from John Milton.

PS Sorry for the late reply - you were one of the loose ends at
the end of the day.

And you're one of the loose cannons at the end of mine.

 

[Pat Garard]

PS Guy, I don't believe you have only half a mind!
Cheers,
Pat

muummble mummble some Fawkes get testymmm mummble -
mmumble Lang may yur Lummuumble reek!

"Pat Garard" launched a sneak attack

[snippets of Pat Garard's email have been rearranged and taken out of
context to suit my own ends]

How bravely you "strut and fret your hour upon the stage" in your anonymity
(http://www.io.com/~jlockett/Grist/English/macbethsources.html ...

Far far worse than posting a message ahead of time, or posting a message
in all caps with no punctuation, or top posting, or any other crime
on usenet IS QUOTING SHAKESPEARE!

enough is ENOUGH!

But it wasn't enough for you. Not only did you use the bard to launch
a pre-emptive salvo, YOU QUOTED FROM THE SCOTTISH PLAY. What sociopath
would use such weapons of mass destruction?

I'm so cross that I've half a mind to snipe at you with irrelevant quotes
from John Milton.

PS Sorry for the late reply - you were one of the loose ends at
the end of the day.

And you're one of the loose cannons at the end of mine.