Dead computer?

[Patty]

Computer in question had a problem when it last ran... Computer froze and
the only way they could shut it down was to unplug it. When they tried to
power it up again, nothing would happen. They took it to the person who
built it who proclaims, it's fried. She got it back from him (minus the
power supply because he says that's what fried). I said I would look at
it. So I put in a power supply. The cpu fan runs but nothing else on
power up (power light on case lights up). In order to shut it down, you
have to either unplug the power supply or turn the power supply off (it has
a switch). My question is.... did this thing fry MY power supply now (the
power supply fan runs)? Or, is there another motherboard problem that is
causing nothing else to power up (CD-Rom, hard drive, floppy) nothing
initializes. Could that be because the motherboard is dead and the BIOS is
not going through post? No beeps, nothing when you try to power up. My
knowledge of the system is limited, it is a homebuilt with a Pentium II
CPU. Motherboard has 3 ISA slots, 4 PCI Slots and 1 AGP Slot. No markings
on the motherboard, it has an Intel controller. I know I'm not offering
much info here, but any thoughts are greatly appreciated. Much thanks.

Patty

 

[Sam]

Computer in question had a problem when it last ran... Computer froze and
the only way they could shut it down was to unplug it. When they tried to
power it up again, nothing would happen. They took it to the person who
built it who proclaims, it's fried. She got it back from him (minus the
power supply because he says that's what fried). I said I would look at
it. So I put in a power supply. The cpu fan runs but nothing else on
power up (power light on case lights up). In order to shut it down, you
have to either unplug the power supply or turn the power supply off (it has
a switch). My question is.... did this thing fry MY power supply now (the
power supply fan runs)? Or, is there another motherboard problem that is
causing nothing else to power up (CD-Rom, hard drive, floppy) nothing
initializes. Could that be because the motherboard is dead and the BIOS is
not going through post? No beeps, nothing when you try to power up. My
knowledge of the system is limited, it is a homebuilt with a Pentium II
CPU. Motherboard has 3 ISA slots, 4 PCI Slots and 1 AGP Slot. No markings
on the motherboard, it has an Intel controller. I know I'm not offering
much info here, but any thoughts are greatly appreciated. Much thanks.

Patty

I had the same problem the other week and found out it was a fried CPU. If
absolutely nothing happens when you start the system up (besides the fans)
then suspect the CPU, RAM, motherboard or power supply. I think you've
eliminated the power supply as the culprit. The only way I know is to start
swapping the RAM and CPU, etc. until you narrow down the problem.

Sam

 

[Patty]

I had the same problem the other week and found out it was a fried CPU. If
absolutely nothing happens when you start the system up (besides the fans)
then suspect the CPU, RAM, motherboard or power supply. I think you've
eliminated the power supply as the culprit. The only way I know is to start
swapping the RAM and CPU, etc. until you narrow down the problem.

Sam

Since I don't have any parts for a system like this (just helping out a
friend) I don't have anything to swap. I did try reseating the RAM, let me
tell you, this must be the cheapest motherboard ever made, I had a heck of
a time getting the RAM to seat back in. Normally you push them in the slot
and they snap lock. Not with these, they would not lock in and kept
falling out. Finally, after much wiggling and pushing I got them to seat.
I suspect there's many problems with this system. I'm going to suggest we
just try to salvage what we can and put together a different system for
her. Was just scrounging all my old parts, but don't have enough SIMMs to
put anything together (have motherboard, CPU from an old 200Mhz system). I
must explain here... computer is for a friend's stepmom who only uses it to
balance her checkbook, play Reversi, and check email through AOL. She
doesn't need a supersystem. She has very limited or no funds to buy a new
computer. Anyone got some leftover EDO Simms laying around they don't need
anymore? <vbg>

Patty

 

[David Maynard]

Since I don't have any parts for a system like this (just helping out a
friend) I don't have anything to swap. I did try reseating the RAM, let me
tell you, this must be the cheapest motherboard ever made, I had a heck of
a time getting the RAM to seat back in. Normally you push them in the slot
and they snap lock. Not with these, they would not lock in and kept
falling out.

That is often caused by the motherboard flexing under the pressure of
trying to seat the RAM module.

 

[David Maynard]

Computer in question had a problem when it last ran... Computer froze and
the only way they could shut it down was to unplug it. When they tried to
power it up again, nothing would happen. They took it to the person who
built it who proclaims, it's fried. She got it back from him (minus the
power supply because he says that's what fried). I said I would look at
it. So I put in a power supply. The cpu fan runs but nothing else on
power up (power light on case lights up). In order to shut it down, you
have to either unplug the power supply or turn the power supply off (it has
a switch). My question is.... did this thing fry MY power supply now (the
power supply fan runs)? Or, is there another motherboard problem that is
causing nothing else to power up (CD-Rom, hard drive, floppy) nothing
initializes. Could that be because the motherboard is dead and the BIOS is
not going through post? No beeps, nothing when you try to power up. My
knowledge of the system is limited, it is a homebuilt with a Pentium II
CPU. Motherboard has 3 ISA slots, 4 PCI Slots and 1 AGP Slot. No markings
on the motherboard, it has an Intel controller. I know I'm not offering
much info here, but any thoughts are greatly appreciated. Much thanks.

Patty

Just off hand I'd say either the processor is dead (and shorted) or the
motherboard is and that's killing the 5 or 3.3 volt rails so that nothing
electronic runs (but 12 volt may be up, or partially up, to spin the CPU
and PSU fans).

I'd first remove all PCI cards, if any, to see if one of them is the
problem (unlikely, unfortunately). Try the hard drive on the PSU by itself
to see if it spins up. Same with the CDROM. If they spin up, I.E. not dead,
then it's either the CPU or motherboard.

Pull the CPU and see if the hard drive/CDROM/floppy light up. It obviously
won't boot but if they light then it's the CPU that's dead. If they still
don't then it's likely the motherboard.

 

[Patty]

Just off hand I'd say either the processor is dead (and shorted) or the
motherboard is and that's killing the 5 or 3.3 volt rails so that nothing
electronic runs (but 12 volt may be up, or partially up, to spin the CPU
and PSU fans).

I'd first remove all PCI cards, if any, to see if one of them is the
problem (unlikely, unfortunately). Try the hard drive on the PSU by itself
to see if it spins up. Same with the CDROM. If they spin up, I.E. not dead,
then it's either the CPU or motherboard.

Pull the CPU and see if the hard drive/CDROM/floppy light up. It obviously
won't boot but if they light then it's the CPU that's dead. If they still
don't then it's likely the motherboard.

Thanks for the suggestions, but as far as I'm concerned since the
motherboard and CPU are so old (I figure 5-6 years) I'm not sure either
would be easily replaceable even if I found out which it was that was
failing. Turns out it's a Gigabyte GA686LX4 motherboard with a Pentium II
266 Mhz CPU. 32 MB RAM. As I said, she doesn't need much computer to do
what she's doing. I'm figuring I've got an old 200 Mhz AT board and CPU in
a case, just need a couple SIMMs, which I may be able to come with up since
where I work has a number of old AT systems just sitting around unused. I
figure with what we can come up with we can probably build her a similar
system as what she had for no cost to her at all.

Patty

 

[johns]

I learned the hard way to stop taking these old flakers
to raise. If you build her up a junker, it will fail too,
and no doubt take down her tax records and retirement
account, and she will blame you and haul the thing to
the XBOX PRO-TEENS who will charge her $300
just to recover her data onto a floppy. You will be in
to this for the rest of your life, plus lose a friend while
trying to do her a favor. Tell her to buy a DELL, and
get it going for her. If she says she is starving to death,
and will have to go raise camels in the desert, just
smile and say, "That sounds like fun, and you can
send me an email about it on your new DELL." If
she needs someone to complain too, she can call DELL
tech-support. They specialize in little-old-lady ( LOL)
Psycho-lology, and you can get your life back.

johns

 

[w_tom]

Doors don't close. So they kept replacing doors. No one
noticed the foundation had collapsed. Does this sounds like
your computer problem?

Start at step one. We must first verify the foundation.
This requires an inexpensive and ubiquitous 3.5 digit
multimeter. No cheaper way around this solution. We must
determine which of three power supply system components is
dead OR determine the entire 'foundation' (power supply
system) is working. Again, we need that meter so that this is
verification is accomplished in but a few minutes (reading how
to do it takes many time longer than the actual measuring
task).

Information in these previous posts report where to measure
and what numbers to expect. In short, measure voltages on the
red, yellow, orange, and purple wires. Those voltages must be
within upper 3/4 limits of table. Purple wire voltage must be
there always - power on or off (which is why you must always
unplug a computer from wall before changing it). When
computer powers on, voltages then appear on red, yellow, and
orange wires - again in the upper 3/4 limits of those specs.

Any power supply can spin fans and hard disk, light LEDs,
and still be 100% defective. Without numbers, no one can say
whether power supply is good or bad. Previous discussion that
provides details on where to measure, what those limits are
(you must measure in upper 3/4 of those limits), and define
what is a good power supply:
"Computer doesnt start at all" in alt.comp.hardware on 10
Jan 2004 at
http://tinyurl.com/2t69q and
"I think my power supply is dead" in alt.comp.hardware on 5
Feb 2004 at
http://www.tinyurl.com/2musa

Even if you don't understand what those numbers report,
those numbers provide powerful facts so that others (with more
knowledge) can immediately provide help. Currently you
provide only enough facts to wildly speculate.

Once we have established the power supply system as
functional, only then can we move on to other suspects. Power
supply system (which is more than just a power supply) is the
foundation. First we must confirm the foundation is intact
before ever considering any other possible problem.

 

[Patty]

I learned the hard way to stop taking these old flakers
to raise. If you build her up a junker, it will fail too,
and no doubt take down her tax records and retirement
account, and she will blame you and haul the thing to
the XBOX PRO-TEENS who will charge her $300
just to recover her data onto a floppy. You will be in
to this for the rest of your life, plus lose a friend while
trying to do her a favor. Tell her to buy a DELL, and
get it going for her. If she says she is starving to death,
and will have to go raise camels in the desert, just
smile and say, "That sounds like fun, and you can
send me an email about it on your new DELL." If
she needs someone to complain too, she can call DELL
tech-support. They specialize in little-old-lady ( LOL)
Psycho-lology, and you can get your life back.

johns

First, she only puts her checkbook on there not all of her tax records.
She's not that computer literate. She doesn't have a retirement account.
Second, she does NOT have the money to buy a new computer. Why do you
think she ended up with this junker to begin with? I'm glad you think that
elderly people can just quit eating in order to buy a new computer from
Dell. That's not the real world. People living on just social security
don't have the funds to go out an purchase new computers that have much
more power than they really need. I use old computers all the time and
from my experience, sometimes the old ones last longer than the newer ones
(remembering my old KT7 w/RAID motherboard that died while I have a much
older Biostar that is still running). If I didn't have a need for the
older computers I'M using on my home network, I'd just give her one of
those, they'll probably last for years.

Patty

 

[Patty]

Doors don't close. So they kept replacing doors. No one
noticed the foundation had collapsed. Does this sounds like
your computer problem?

Start at step one. We must first verify the foundation.
This requires an inexpensive and ubiquitous 3.5 digit
multimeter. No cheaper way around this solution. We must
determine which of three power supply system components is
dead OR determine the entire 'foundation' (power supply
system) is working. Again, we need that meter so that this is
verification is accomplished in but a few minutes (reading how
to do it takes many time longer than the actual measuring
task).

Information in these previous posts report where to measure
and what numbers to expect. In short, measure voltages on the
red, yellow, orange, and purple wires. Those voltages must be
within upper 3/4 limits of table. Purple wire voltage must be
there always - power on or off (which is why you must always
unplug a computer from wall before changing it). When
computer powers on, voltages then appear on red, yellow, and
orange wires - again in the upper 3/4 limits of those specs.

Any power supply can spin fans and hard disk, light LEDs,
and still be 100% defective. Without numbers, no one can say
whether power supply is good or bad. Previous discussion that
provides details on where to measure, what those limits are
(you must measure in upper 3/4 of those limits), and define
what is a good power supply:
"Computer doesnt start at all" in alt.comp.hardware on 10
Jan 2004 at
http://tinyurl.com/2t69q and
"I think my power supply is dead" in alt.comp.hardware on 5
Feb 2004 at
http://www.tinyurl.com/2musa

Even if you don't understand what those numbers report,
those numbers provide powerful facts so that others (with more
knowledge) can immediately provide help. Currently you
provide only enough facts to wildly speculate.

Once we have established the power supply system as
functional, only then can we move on to other suspects. Power
supply system (which is more than just a power supply) is the
foundation. First we must confirm the foundation is intact
before ever considering any other possible problem.

While that's true, and if I hadn't already put in a different power supply
(I replaced the one that was supposedly fried), I would buy the equipment
to test it. But, what are the odds that two different power supplies would
be bad? Two different power supplies, same result. Does that make it a
power supply problem?

Patty

 

[Patty]

Doors don't close. So they kept replacing doors. No one
noticed the foundation had collapsed. Does this sounds like
your computer problem?

Start at step one. We must first verify the foundation.
This requires an inexpensive and ubiquitous 3.5 digit
multimeter. No cheaper way around this solution. We must
determine which of three power supply system components is
dead OR determine the entire 'foundation' (power supply
system) is working. Again, we need that meter so that this is
verification is accomplished in but a few minutes (reading how
to do it takes many time longer than the actual measuring
task).

Information in these previous posts report where to measure
and what numbers to expect. In short, measure voltages on the
red, yellow, orange, and purple wires. Those voltages must be
within upper 3/4 limits of table. Purple wire voltage must be
there always - power on or off (which is why you must always
unplug a computer from wall before changing it). When
computer powers on, voltages then appear on red, yellow, and
orange wires - again in the upper 3/4 limits of those specs.

Any power supply can spin fans and hard disk, light LEDs,
and still be 100% defective. Without numbers, no one can say
whether power supply is good or bad. Previous discussion that
provides details on where to measure, what those limits are
(you must measure in upper 3/4 of those limits), and define
what is a good power supply:
"Computer doesnt start at all" in alt.comp.hardware on 10
Jan 2004 at
http://tinyurl.com/2t69q and
"I think my power supply is dead" in alt.comp.hardware on 5
Feb 2004 at
http://www.tinyurl.com/2musa

Even if you don't understand what those numbers report,
those numbers provide powerful facts so that others (with more
knowledge) can immediately provide help. Currently you
provide only enough facts to wildly speculate.

Once we have established the power supply system as
functional, only then can we move on to other suspects. Power
supply system (which is more than just a power supply) is the
foundation. First we must confirm the foundation is intact
before ever considering any other possible problem.

I have a multimeter, but I don't know what kind it is. I know it's a
Digital Multimeter, I know it does DC voltage measurement, DC 10 Amp
measurement as well as AC voltage measurement. I don't know much about
this and I'm not sure how to use it or set it to use it. The book is not
helpful to my "non-electrical knowledge" brain. ;o) All I know is it's a
GB Instruments GDT-11 Digital Multimeter. Maybe I'll do a Google search
and see if I can find some info on it to try to understand more how to use
it and how it works and if I can use it to check the power supply, which I
am confident that works as it should.

Patty

 

[w_tom]

Power on digital multimeter. Turn selector switch to DC volts -
preferably the 20 volt range. Touch leads to points. Read voltage
number from display. When done, turn meter power off.

 

[Patty]

Power on digital multimeter. Turn selector switch to DC volts -
preferably the 20 volt range. Touch leads to points. Read voltage
number from display. When done, turn meter power off.

Do you have the computer and power supply turned on when you do this?
Thanks so much. I'm learning something new here.

Patty

 

[Sam]

I learned the hard way to stop taking these old flakers
to raise. If you build her up a junker, it will fail too,
and no doubt take down her tax records and retirement
account, and she will blame you and haul the thing to
the XBOX PRO-TEENS who will charge her $300
just to recover her data onto a floppy. You will be in
to this for the rest of your life, plus lose a friend while
trying to do her a favor. Tell her to buy a DELL, and
get it going for her. If she says she is starving to death,
and will have to go raise camels in the desert, just
smile and say, "That sounds like fun, and you can
send me an email about it on your new DELL." If
she needs someone to complain too, she can call DELL
tech-support. They specialize in little-old-lady ( LOL)
Psycho-lology, and you can get your life back.

johns

Any computer can die, whether old or new. That's what backups are for.

Sam

 

[Patty]

Power on digital multimeter. Turn selector switch to DC volts -
preferably the 20 volt range. Touch leads to points. Read voltage
number from display. When done, turn meter power off.

I'm sorry, I hate to sound terribly blond here, but I don't understand how
this works. If I'm supposed to get a reading of 12.0 here, how can I when
the display is only 0.00? I think that perhaps this is the wrong kind of
multimeter. Can someone please explain this to me clearly? How does this
work? What am I supposed to touch the red and black leads on the
multimeter to? Am I supposed to have the power supply plugged in, turned
on and the computer turned on as well? Or, just the power supply turned on
or none of the above? I understand that the big plastic connectors on the
power supply that connect to the drives are supposed to be the 12v, right?
But which are the -12v? Which are the 3.3? I am so confused here. I've
never done this before. Thanks so much. I'm just thinking I should stick
this power supply in another box and see if it works, that to me would be
much simpler.

Patty

 

[JAD]

Dear Patty,
Put the multimeter away and have a cup of tea. Although someone here
will be more than happy to type the play by play of the how to's, you
should not mess around with electricity of a higher voltage. Start out
with a battery 'D' cell or AA, and practice, not a potentially
dangerous piece of equipment.

 

[Patty]

Dear Patty,
Put the multimeter away and have a cup of tea. Although someone here
will be more than happy to type the play by play of the how to's, you
should not mess around with electricity of a higher voltage. Start out
with a battery 'D' cell or AA, and practice, not a potentially
dangerous piece of equipment.

Well, I did a rechargeable AA battery. It tested 1.28v on the multimeter
and the battery should be 1.2v so I guess that's pretty good. And, I don't
drink tea, I'd much rather have an Absolute and Diet Coke. ;o) Besides,
I've already helped my husband re-wire our house so I do understand
something about electricity, I just don't understand how these multimeters
work.

Patty

 

[JAD]

as long as you know the dangers.........

ok so then you must realize that the power must be on....only, if you
pull the connector off the mainboard the PSU will not function..... if
you are just testing the 12 v supply to the hard drives...which is
only a small part of what the PSU supplies, then that doesn't apply.
so black is ground and yellow and red are hot, each supplying a
different voltage. black> to black red> to yellow or red on the
molex connector to the HD's. But once again another 'oddity' both
blacks are not 'common'. Confused yet?

 

[Patty]

Just came across a neat gizmo called an "Antec Power Supply Tester"
recommended by Tom's Hardware. Have one waiting for me at Circuit City
(ordered online for instore pickup). At $10 (including tax) the price is
right and it's suppose to make testing power supplies much simpler. I'm
still not sure the multimeter I have is the right kind to have, but we'll
see when I get the power supply tester. Thanks everyone for the
suggestions.

Patty

 

[Patty]

Any computer can die, whether old or new. That's what backups are for.

Sam

Yeah, and has anyone called Dell Tech Support in recent years? You get
someone who barely speaks English and the first thing they tell you for any
problem is your Windows is corrupted and you need to reformat and reinstall
Windows. Not something I'd want to leave up to a computer illiterate old
lady.

Patty