Data Corruption

P

pcbldrNinetyEight

The WIN98SE computer I built in 1999 has data corruption and I believe
this is a hardware problem. This computer ran flawlessly until last
November. Then it began throwing random errors at bootup and shut down
plus some files would not open and programs would randomly refuse to
run.

All of my CD backups after 11/23/07 have some corrupted files. These
corrupted files will throw errors and refuse to run on my other two
computers therefore I know they are corrupted.

On 10/27/07 I replaced CD burner with DVD burner. I made one backup to
DVD with burner. This DVD backup appears good. On 11/07 I removed DVD
burner to install in a new PC and reinstalled CD burner. All backups
made after reinstalling CD burner have some corrupted files.

Actions taken to fix problem:
On 1/1/08 I wiped the hard drive and reinstalled the OS.
I had same random errors as I originally had.
I reformatted. I used Fdisk to delete the partition and create a new
one. I reinstalled the OS. I had same random errors as I originally had.
I used Seatools to test the drive and it passed all tests. I used
Seatools to erase the whole drive including track 0. I created a new
partition, formatted it and installed the OS. I had same random errors
as I originally had.

These are all clean installations with no other software installed. I
have tried this with and without the video or MOBO drivers. I had same
random errors as I originally had.

Between reinstallation's of the OS I swapped the CD burner with a DVD
burner and then with a DVD reader. I had same random errors as I
originally had.

Other things I have tried:
Cleared CMOS. Set CMOS to fail safe then to optimum and then back to my
original settings. Measured CMOS battery voltage. Moved CD burner to
same IDE as hard drive. Scanned hard drive for viruses with ClamWin.

I have no other parts on hand to swap out in this PC. Due to age of this
PC the only parts I could buy would be power supply or hard drive.

Currently the OS, video drivers and mobo drivers are installed. As
further proof of corruption every time I run System File Checker it
finds new files that are corrupted and need to be restored. This happens
no matter how many times I run it and restore files.

I would appreciate any suggestions about how to test this PC and
identify the problem.
 
P

philo

pcbldrNinetyEight said:
The WIN98SE computer I built in 1999 has data corruption and I believe
this is a hardware problem. This computer ran flawlessly until last
November. Then it began throwing random errors at bootup and shut down
plus some files would not open and programs would randomly refuse to
run.

All of my CD backups after 11/23/07 have some corrupted files. These
corrupted files will throw errors and refuse to run on my other two
computers therefore I know they are corrupted.

On 10/27/07 I replaced CD burner with DVD burner. I made one backup to
DVD with burner. This DVD backup appears good. On 11/07 I removed DVD
burner to install in a new PC and reinstalled CD burner. All backups
made after reinstalling CD burner have some corrupted files.

Actions taken to fix problem:
On 1/1/08 I wiped the hard drive and reinstalled the OS.
I had same random errors as I originally had.
I reformatted. I used Fdisk to delete the partition and create a new
one. I reinstalled the OS. I had same random errors as I originally had.
I used Seatools to test the drive and it passed all tests. I used
Seatools to erase the whole drive including track 0. I created a new
partition, formatted it and installed the OS. I had same random errors
as I originally had.

These are all clean installations with no other software installed. I
have tried this with and without the video or MOBO drivers. I had same
random errors as I originally had.

Between reinstallation's of the OS I swapped the CD burner with a DVD
burner and then with a DVD reader. I had same random errors as I
originally had.

Other things I have tried:
Cleared CMOS. Set CMOS to fail safe then to optimum and then back to my
original settings. Measured CMOS battery voltage. Moved CD burner to
same IDE as hard drive. Scanned hard drive for viruses with ClamWin.

I have no other parts on hand to swap out in this PC. Due to age of this
PC the only parts I could buy would be power supply or hard drive.

Currently the OS, video drivers and mobo drivers are installed. As
further proof of corruption every time I run System File Checker it
finds new files that are corrupted and need to be restored. This happens
no matter how many times I run it and restore files.

I would appreciate any suggestions about how to test this PC and
identify the problem.
Click to expand...


Well it looks like you did everything but the most obvious.
You need to run a RAM test (or substitute)

http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp
 
P

Paul

pcbldrNinetyEight said:
IIRC no problem found but I will run it again just to be certain.
Click to expand...

You can run Prime95 too. If you want a version to play with,
this one is ready for multicore processors. And the interface
for this might be one step less annoying than the official
release version. (The mersenne.org site seems to be down, maybe
for good, so I'll have to promote this as a place to download
from now on.)

http://www.majorgeeks.com/Prime95_d4363.html (Prime95 for Windows)

When it first starts, it'll prompt you to either "Join GIMPS"
or "Just Stress Testing". Select the stress testing one. The
"Run a Torture Test" dialog will appear. Click "Custom".
Examine the "Memory in use" field. On my 1GB computer, the
value is preloaded to 767MB. If you don't want all your
RAM sucked up for testing, set it to a lower number. In
my case, I might set it to 200MB. When you click OK, the
program starts testing. The "Test" menu has a "Stop" option,
to stop it. When you're finished, select "Exit" from the
"Test" menu, so that the program completely exits and
unloads. The program can start multiple threads, but I
cannot vouch for its operation on Win98.

The program stops if it hits one error. No errors are acceptable.
If you get errors, it is either an unstable CPU (overclocked too
high), or the RAM is bad.

Paul
 
B

Bill

The WIN98SE computer I built in 1999 has data corruption and I believe
this is a hardware problem. This computer ran flawlessly until last
November. Then it began throwing random errors at bootup and shut down
plus some files would not open and programs would randomly refuse to
run.

All of my CD backups after 11/23/07 have some corrupted files. These
corrupted files will throw errors and refuse to run on my other two
computers therefore I know they are corrupted.

On 10/27/07 I replaced CD burner with DVD burner. I made one backup to
DVD with burner. This DVD backup appears good. On 11/07 I removed DVD
burner to install in a new PC and reinstalled CD burner. All backups
made after reinstalling CD burner have some corrupted files.

Actions taken to fix problem:
On 1/1/08 I wiped the hard drive and reinstalled the OS.
I had same random errors as I originally had.
I reformatted. I used Fdisk to delete the partition and create a new
one. I reinstalled the OS. I had same random errors as I originally had.
I used Seatools to test the drive and it passed all tests. I used
Seatools to erase the whole drive including track 0. I created a new
partition, formatted it and installed the OS. I had same random errors
as I originally had.

These are all clean installations with no other software installed. I
have tried this with and without the video or MOBO drivers. I had same
random errors as I originally had.

Between reinstallation's of the OS I swapped the CD burner with a DVD
burner and then with a DVD reader. I had same random errors as I
originally had.

Other things I have tried:
Cleared CMOS. Set CMOS to fail safe then to optimum and then back to my
original settings. Measured CMOS battery voltage. Moved CD burner to
same IDE as hard drive. Scanned hard drive for viruses with ClamWin.

I have no other parts on hand to swap out in this PC. Due to age of this
PC the only parts I could buy would be power supply or hard drive.

Currently the OS, video drivers and mobo drivers are installed. As
further proof of corruption every time I run System File Checker it
finds new files that are corrupted and need to be restored. This happens
no matter how many times I run it and restore files.

I would appreciate any suggestions about how to test this PC and
identify the problem.
Click to expand...

Run Memtest86+ for 24hrs. Check motherboard for leaking/swollen
capacitors. Swap out power supply, then hard drive. Clean all dust and
crud out of everywhere in the machine. It's 8 years old, motherboard
and/or processor may be dying, consider replacing the pc.

Bill
 
P

philo

I forgot to say in my OP that I had tested the memory and I have again
tested and no problem found.
Click to expand...


If the RAM checks good...under rare conditions it could still be bad...
but one of the other respondents had a good suggestion...
and that was to inspect the mobo for swollen or leaky capacitiors.
If the caps are bad...no sense in going any further.


Finally.
Once in a while I will "solve" a problem simply by underclocking a machine.
I've had a few that never worked right...and after trying everything I could
think of...
simply underclocked slightly.
 
P

pcbldrNinetyEight

If the RAM checks good...under rare conditions it could still be
bad...
Click to expand...

Then diagnosis will only be that much harder since I have none to swap
out.
but one of the other respondents had a good suggestion...
and that was to inspect the mobo for swollen or leaky capacitiors.
If the caps are bad...no sense in going any further.
Click to expand...

I found no bad caps.
Finally.
Once in a while I will "solve" a problem simply by underclocking a
machine. I've had a few that never worked right...and after trying
everything I could think of...
simply underclocked slightly.
Click to expand...

I never overclock.
 
P

philo

Then diagnosis will only be that much harder since I have none to swap
out.


I found no bad caps.


I never overclock.
Click to expand...


I mean...try clocking the system below it's non-overclocked ratings.


I have had that do the trick a few times. It's not really a proper fix I
know...
but a stable machine is the most important factor.

On some machines I had to take the RAM down a little bit...
on others it was the cpu that I underclocked.

(More than likely the problems were with PC Chips motherboards)
 
B

Bill

Finally.
Once in a while I will "solve" a problem simply by underclocking a
machine. I've had a few that never worked right...and after trying
everything I could think of...
simply underclocked slightly.
Click to expand...

I never overclock.
[/QUOTE]

He said underclock, like lower the multiplier on the processor if you
can, lower the FSB speed, lower the AGP bus speed, relax the timings
on the memory, run it slower, that sort of thing. You can sometimes
get some more life out of components that are becoming marginal
through old age < electrolytic caps can dry out/go bad and show no
visual sign of it > by understressing them.

Bill
 
P

pcbldrNinetyEight

Paul said:
You can run Prime95 too. If you want a version to play with,
this one is ready for multicore processors. And the interface
for this might be one step less annoying than the official
release version. (The mersenne.org site seems to be down, maybe
for good, so I'll have to promote this as a place to download
from now on.)

http://www.majorgeeks.com/Prime95_d4363.html (Prime95 for Windows)

When it first starts, it'll prompt you to either "Join GIMPS"
or "Just Stress Testing". Select the stress testing one. The
"Run a Torture Test" dialog will appear. Click "Custom".
Examine the "Memory in use" field. On my 1GB computer, the
value is preloaded to 767MB. If you don't want all your
RAM sucked up for testing, set it to a lower number. In
my case, I might set it to 200MB. When you click OK, the
program starts testing. The "Test" menu has a "Stop" option,
to stop it. When you're finished, select "Exit" from the
"Test" menu, so that the program completely exits and
unloads. The program can start multiple threads, but I
cannot vouch for its operation on Win98.

The program stops if it hits one error. No errors are acceptable.
If you get errors, it is either an unstable CPU (overclocked too
high), or the RAM is bad.

Paul
Click to expand...

I ran the test for 30 minutes with no errors.
 
B

Bill

I ran the test for 30 minutes with no errors.
Click to expand...

See if it will run for 3 days with no errors. Inttermittant problems
don't always show up when you want them to.

Bill
 
P

pcbldrNinetyEight

See if it will run for 3 days with no errors. Inttermittant problems
don't always show up when you want them to.

Bill
Click to expand...

Problem is random but not intermittent and occurs constantly from boot up
and onward.
 
P

pcbldrNinetyEight

I mean...try clocking the system below it's non-overclocked ratings.


I have had that do the trick a few times. It's not really a proper fix I
know...
but a stable machine is the most important factor.

On some machines I had to take the RAM down a little bit...
on others it was the cpu that I underclocked.

(More than likely the problems were with PC Chips motherboards)
Click to expand...

Underclocked K6-2 500 down to 400 MHZ. Memory setting in BIOS is at lowest
setting. System File Checker still finds corruption every time I run it.
 
S

SteveH

pcbldrNinetyEight said:
Underclocked K6-2 500 down to 400 MHZ. Memory setting in BIOS is at
lowest setting. System File Checker still finds corruption every time
I run it.
Click to expand...

Silly question, but have you tried changing the HDD data cable?

SteveH
 
P

philo

Underclocked K6-2 500 down to 400 MHZ. Memory setting in BIOS is at lowest
setting. System File Checker still finds corruption every time I run it.
Click to expand...



I'd be more concerned with how the machine actually runs..
There can be other reasons for SFC showing corruption.

Unless the SFC database is updated after windows updates...
it may give incorrect messages due to it's data base being older than the
updated system files.

OTOH: If the machine is crashing etc...then there is a real problem of
course
 

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