Crossfire Asus yet?

[edavid3001]

I've upgraded my PC for 6 years now, the P3V4X Mobo is maxed out and
it's upgrade time.

I've been looking at the A8N-SLI Premium, putting in a 3000 and a cheap
PCIe card to begin with, along with XP x64. My P3V4X isn't going
anywhere, so I can deal with the x64 lacking drivers issue. This is
mostly to be a gaming rig on a cheapo budget leaving me with
expandability down the road.

But when looking at the A8N-SLI I discovered the ATI Crossfire, with
Motherboards coming out in June (last month.)

The idea that I can add a newer faster crossfire enabled video card
down the line and still get benefit from my older one seems better than
ditching my cheapo PCIe card for a pair of 6800's equiv.'s a year or so
from now.

So what's the eta on the ASUS crossfire MOBO? Any news? I saw they've
showed the crossfire board http://techreport.com/onearticle.x/8390 back
in may, but I don't see any crossfire boards on the website. Just the
P5RD1 models that have ATI RADEON XPRESS 200 chipset, but not crossfire
enabled..? I'm wondering if I should wait for Crossfire or go forward
with the A8N-SLI.

 

[John Lewis]

I've upgraded my PC for 6 years now, the P3V4X Mobo is maxed out and
it's upgrade time.

I've been looking at the A8N-SLI Premium, putting in a 3000 and a cheap
PCIe card to begin with, along with XP x64. My P3V4X isn't going
anywhere, so I can deal with the x64 lacking drivers issue. This is
mostly to be a gaming rig on a cheapo budget leaving me with
expandability down the road.

The A8N-SLI Premium seems an excellent choice. See the following
brand-new review:-

http://www.hothardware.com/viewarticle.cfm?articleid=704

Do not use XP x64 for gaming. Zero advantage -- yet. Yes, you can run
the Far Cry x64 update, but that is a special exception. And several

on-disk copy-protection schemes in current or legacy games will barf
as they embed driver code that knows nothing about 64-bit.

Better to dual-boot x32 and x64 ( if you can afford it ) until x64 is
mainstream and all driver issues are addressed. Maybe M$$ will be kind

enough to eventually embed a TRUE 32-bit compatibility mode in
XP x64.

But when looking at the A8N-SLI I discovered the ATI Crossfire, with
Motherboards coming out in June (last month.)

Nope, mid-end August at best.

The idea that I can add a newer faster crossfire enabled video card
down the line and still get benefit from my older one seems better than
ditching my cheapo PCIe card for a pair of 6800's equiv.'s a year or so
from now.

So what's the eta on the ASUS crossfire MOBO? Any news? I saw they've
showed the crossfire board http://techreport.com/onearticle.x/8390 back
in may, but I don't see any crossfire boards on the website. Just the
P5RD1 models that have ATI RADEON XPRESS 200 chipset, but not crossfire
enabled..? I'm wondering if I should wait for Crossfire or go forward
with the A8N-SLI.

Crossfire ( er...CrossDampSquib) only works with existing X800 and
X850 cards ( and presumably with unannounced R520-based cards) And
you need to buy the special X800 or X850 (or unnanounced R520-based )
Crossfire video card and the X200-Crossfire-version motherboard before
you can even use an existing X800 or X850 card as the second card in
Crossfire mode. Also mixing a lower-performance card in a Crossfire
setup always reduces performance to be equivalent to a dual-set of the
lower-performing card. Plus you had better know which Southbridge the
X200-Crossfire Motherboard has -- the buggy ATi one or the unbuggy ULi
one.

Between keeping M$$ happy on the Xbox360, the delayed R520
family launch due to 90nm leakage problems, now likely to miss the
'back-to-school' buying spike ( with nVidia also soon to announce
other members in the 7800 family with immediate availability on
announcement) and the CrossDampSquib exercise, no wonder
ATi's stock price ( Symbol: ATYT ) has slid into the dumpster.
Unsubstantiated rumors of a take-over bid from parties unknown
have caused some recent knee-jerk jumps in ATi's stock price.

Crossfire seems to be a non-starter... too late. The second PCIe
video-card socket might be useful for dual-card multiple-head video
display, but a SLI board will work in this mode just as well
as any Crossfire motherboard.

I believe that ATI, like nVidia are in discussions/testing with Intel
on the 955x chip-set with regard to Crossfire ( or for nVidia -SLI )
compatibility. That might render the need for a special Crossfire
motherboard meaningless. However the 955x chip-set does not
come cheap.

John Lewis

 

[Paul]

The A8N-SLI Premium seems an excellent choice. See the following
brand-new review:-

http://www.hothardware.com/viewarticle.cfm?articleid=704

Do not use XP x64 for gaming. Zero advantage -- yet. Yes, you can run
the Far Cry x64 update, but that is a special exception. And several

on-disk copy-protection schemes in current or legacy games will barf
as they embed driver code that knows nothing about 64-bit.

Better to dual-boot x32 and x64 ( if you can afford it ) until x64 is
mainstream and all driver issues are addressed. Maybe M$$ will be kind

enough to eventually embed a TRUE 32-bit compatibility mode in
XP x64.


Nope, mid-end August at best.


Crossfire ( er...CrossDampSquib) only works with existing X800 and
X850 cards ( and presumably with unannounced R520-based cards) And
you need to buy the special X800 or X850 (or unnanounced R520-based )
Crossfire video card and the X200-Crossfire-version motherboard before
you can even use an existing X800 or X850 card as the second card in
Crossfire mode. Also mixing a lower-performance card in a Crossfire
setup always reduces performance to be equivalent to a dual-set of the
lower-performing card. Plus you had better know which Southbridge the
X200-Crossfire Motherboard has -- the buggy ATi one or the unbuggy ULi
one.

Between keeping M$$ happy on the Xbox360, the delayed R520
family launch due to 90nm leakage problems, now likely to miss the
'back-to-school' buying spike ( with nVidia also soon to announce
other members in the 7800 family with immediate availability on
announcement) and the CrossDampSquib exercise, no wonder
ATi's stock price ( Symbol: ATYT ) has slid into the dumpster.
Unsubstantiated rumors of a take-over bid from parties unknown
have caused some recent knee-jerk jumps in ATi's stock price.

Crossfire seems to be a non-starter... too late. The second PCIe
video-card socket might be useful for dual-card multiple-head video
display, but a SLI board will work in this mode just as well
as any Crossfire motherboard.

I believe that ATI, like nVidia are in discussions/testing with Intel
on the 955x chip-set with regard to Crossfire ( or for nVidia -SLI )
compatibility. That might render the need for a special Crossfire
motherboard meaningless. However the 955x chip-set does not
come cheap.

John Lewis

In reading this article, I don't see any special property of the
motherboard being necessary. As long as the motherboard offered
two x8 electrical slots, that would be good enough for the video
cards. I bet even a Tyan dual processor board, with two real
x16 electrical slots, could be used.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2432&p=11

The key, is the 3DFX style cable running from one video card
to the other. That is what seems to provide the support. In
reading the Anandtech article, I didn't see mention of any
motherboard hardware helping in any way. An A8N-SLI using an
Nvidia chipset could be used to run two ATI cards, just as
easily as an Express200.

The trick will be all in the drivers. What hardware they choose
to support/obstruct or otherwise interfere with, by means of
their drivers.

Paul

 

[edavid3001]

I think you are reading this wrong.

Crossfire requires the ATI Radeon® Xpress 200 CrossFire chipset , or
better over time, as well as multiple PCIe ports. The ATI 200 ASUS
boards currently don't offer multiple PCI-e high speed ports.
This is documented here:
http://www.ati.com/products/crossfire/buildyourown.html

Or am I reading this wrong? Is this just marketing. Seems these pages
are updating daily. This did say the 200 chipset was REQUIRED. Now
it says, optimally. If I can do crossfire on the A8N-SLI Premium then
I'm sold on this mobo.


Looks like ATI updated their site today.

http://www.ati.com/buy/promotions/crossfireready/motherboards.html

The just released (?) P5RD2-MVP Deluxe supports crossfire. (But no
AMD darn it.)

Tom's hardware has it here:
http://www.tomshardware.com/business/20050531/computex_day1-05.html

But nothing on Froogle yet.

The FAQ is here:
http://www.ati.com/products/crossfire/faq.html

Note the MORE link.

 

[Paul]

I think you are reading this wrong.

Crossfire requires the ATI Radeon=AE Xpress 200 CrossFire chipset , or
better over time, as well as multiple PCIe ports. The ATI 200 ASUS
boards currently don't offer multiple PCI-e high speed ports.
This is documented here:
http://www.ati.com/products/crossfire/buildyourown.html

Or am I reading this wrong? Is this just marketing. Seems these pages
are updating daily. This did say the 200 chipset was REQUIRED. Now
it says, optimally. If I can do crossfire on the A8N-SLI Premium then
I'm sold on this mobo.


Looks like ATI updated their site today.

http://www.ati.com/buy/promotions/crossfireready/motherboards.html

The just released (?) P5RD2-MVP Deluxe supports crossfire. (But no
AMD darn it.)

Tom's hardware has it here:
http://www.tomshardware.com/business/20050531/computex_day1-05.html

But nothing on Froogle yet.

The FAQ is here:
http://www.ati.com/products/crossfire/faq.html

Note the MORE link.

I think at this point in time, I'd recommend against rushing out
and buying the first motherboard you can find with an Xpress 200
on it. Try visiting a few more review sites, and get their twist
on things, if you don't believe the Anandtech article. I mean,
this is what "marketing spin" is all about - making the customers
run around with the heads cut off, buying everything in sight
I'm sure there will be more tech info, when the real
release happens. Also remember, that the company lawyers
check the ad copy, to make sure the company has not overcommitted
to something, and I expect that is why you are finding "weasel
words" regarding the necessity of the ATI chipset. Be patient.

Think of it this way. Would you buy an Ati Xpress 200 chipset
if the word "Crossfire" wasn't stamped on the ad copy ?
I didn't think so.

They are using Crossfire to try to prop up the sales of yet another
one of their chipsets. I would be more impressed with ATI, if they
could build a bug-free Southbridge with their name on it. Having
to use a ULI Southbridge with the ATI chip is pretty embarrassing.
It could even be, that Crossfire is being delayed, so that the
motherboards with the Xpress 200 will be ready to go, so they
can prop up the sales

You have to think like a weasel, to beat a weasel.

You can also see the marketing war here. Beads of sweat are
starting to trickle down the foreheads of the ATI execs
Trying to juggle too many balls at the same time...

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20050718091007.html

There is another article here:

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/video/crossfire.html

"So far, the company guarantees (!) compatibility only with
motherboards on ATI Xpress 200 chipsets. But in the course of
testing and streamlining this technology, motherboards from other
manufacturers will also be certified ­ theoretically there should
be no problems in such interaction, but there may appear specific
incompatibilities."

So, they'll drag their heels on getting out a driver that works with
other chipsets, even though I don't see a technical difference yet,
between the PCI Express slots on the Xpress 200 and the PCI Express
slots on other SLI motherboards.

Paul

 

[edavid3001]

Thanks for the info. If I can get an nForce chipset and had both
options of PCIe SLI as well as crossfire, then that would be great.
It's just too early to tell which current motherboards would support
crossfire.

From what I've read, the advantage of crossfire over SLI is that you

can take two unsimular cards and run them in crossfire, and run the
both at full speed (depending on the mode of crossfire you use) so that
a slow card doesn't slow down a faster card. Of course you need
crossfire enabled card and another crossfire compatible card.

PCIe requires two nearly identical cards. If I buy an ASUS SLI now and
then another of the same card a year from now, there could be problems.
If the newer one has higher GPU/memory frequencys then I will still be
running at the slower speeds of the first one.
Kind of like when you do mutliprocessor systems. You can't mix a P4
3.0 with a 3.2, and you have to have a multiprocessor version chips,
and preferably these should be from the same batch. And in SLI mode
you drop from 16 pipes to 8 pipes per card. Crossfire doesn't do that.

Crossfire marketing sounds better. Who knows what the reality will be,
though.

Edwin