Creating exact clone of a document in a 'new doc' window (copy/pas

[Steve_Ray]

I experience formatting problems every time I try to duplicate a document by
'copying' it and then 'pasting' it into a 'new document' window.

This is particularly the case when tables or other 'advanced formatting'
features are in the original document.

Is there an easy way of getting an exact copy using copy-&-paste in this way
-- i.e., a true duplicate of the original, not a so-so copy that requires a
lot of 'fixing up'?

Thanks.

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

Is there some reason you're not using Save As to create a copy of the
document? In any case, when you paste text from one document to another, you
must include a section break at the end if you want to copy the document
layout (margins, etc.). See
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Formatting/WorkWithSections.htm (the information
you want is toward the end).

 

[Steve_Ray]

Thanks. So you mean all I have to do is go to the end of the document (btw,
it only has one section) and add a 'section break' and that will lock in the
formatting for 'copy & paste'?

Re: 'Save As,' yes, probably seems odd. I sometimes work on public library
computers that have issues. One of these is that WORD is somehow
misconfigured so that 'save as' doesn't work if a media change has occurred
(i.e., original floppy disk full, so need to save to new disk). Not only
doesn't 'save as' work in this circumstance, but after WORD aborts the 'save
as' and generates a series of error messages it also erases the on-screen
document and exits that window. So currently the only way to 'save as'
without the aforementioned happening is to copy-&-paste to a new window.

--------------------------------

 

[Steve_Ray]

Thanks. So you mean all I have to do is go to the end of the document (btw,
it only has one section) and add a 'section break' and that will lock in the
formatting for 'copy & paste'?

Re: 'Save As,' yes, probably seems odd. I sometimes work on public library
computers that have issues. One of these is that WORD is somehow
misconfigured so that 'save as' doesn't work if a media change has occurred
(i.e., original floppy disk full, so need to save to new disk). Not only
doesn't 'save as' work in this circumstance, but after WORD aborts the 'save
as' and generates a series of error messages it also erases the on-screen
document and exits that window. So currently the only way to 'save as'
without the aforementioned happening is to copy-&-paste to a new window.

----------------------------------

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

Depending on what sort of formatting you're trying to preserve, a section
break may help. If it's just font formatting, see
http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/styles/FormatOfTextChanges.html

You should never save directly to any form of removable media, anyway, nor
work directly from one. If your library does not allow you to save files to
the hard drive, tell the librarian who is in charge of the computers that
(a) this really just isn't satisfactory for working with Word, and (b) there
is an application called "Deep Freeze" (and undoubtedly other similar ones)
that will reset the computer to its default state every time it is
restarted. Our library uses this to allow patrons to save documents to the
hard drives of the library computers.

For info on Deep Freeze see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Freeze_(software) and/or
http://www.faronics.com/html/deepfreeze.asp.

 

[Steve_Ray]

Depending on what sort of formatting you're trying to preserve, a section

break may help. If it's just font formatting, see
http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/styles/FormatOfTextChanges.html

Thanks, I'll check that out. Font formatting is definitely one of the
problems with copy-&-paste (to a
new window). Tables also seem to reformat incorrectly -- in line with the
'normal' template's default specs
for tables, I assume.

You should never save directly to any form of removable media, anyway, nor
work directly from one.

Why is that?

work directly from one. If your library does not allow you to save files to
the hard drive, tell the librarian who is in charge of the computers that
(a) this really just isn't satisfactory for working with Word, and (b) there

Why are removeable media not satisfactory for (saving from) Word?

is an application called "Deep Freeze" (and undoubtedly other similar ones)
that will reset the computer to its default state every time it is
restarted. Our library uses this to allow patrons to save documents to the
hard drives of the library computers.

OK, I will do that. But based on past experience I
will probably be told that there are 'security' issues
involved -- i.e., the primary reason for disabling the
hard drive is not just to avoid its getting full of
user documents, but to avoid hacking, viruses, etc.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
P.S. - Talking about 'unsatisfactory,' these discussion boards are not
without their own problems. I almost always have to open every reply link I
receive in email twice in order to view it (the first attempt hangs
indefinitely). Plus I've learned to copy my replies before posting them,
because usually the first attempt to post doesn't work (nor is the reply
preserved). Who can I address these problems to? (I often post from a Mac
using the Safari browser -- maybe that has something to do with it.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

To start at the end, there are known problems with the Web interface at the
moment. If you're using Safari, does that mean you're on a Mac? If so, you
might want to look at the Mac newsgroups at
http://www.microsoft.com/mac/community/community.aspx?pid=newsgroups

The whole point of Deep Freeze is to work around the security issues; if you
look at the pages I provided links for (and show these to your librarian),
you'll see that libraries, schools, and other institutions are exactly the
environments the software is intended for.

The reason you shouldn't try to work on a file from removable media (and in
fact, some versions of Word won't even allow you to) is the risk of document
corruption. This is particularly likely in the case of floppy disks because
of their limited capacity. When you open or create a Word document, in
addition to the document itself, temporary files are created in the same
folder (see "Description of how Word creates temporary files" at
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=211632). At minimum, you will get the
"owner" file, which is small and harmless. But in many cases (not discussed
in the article or documented anywhere AFAIK) you also get an additional temp
file every time you save; this file is a copy of the previous saved version,
so if you save five times while you have the file open, you'll have five or
six copies of the document on the floppy. If the file is very large, you can
soon fill up the floppy. These files are deleted when you close the
document, but that's another risk. It takes Word a little time to do all
this file swapping, and if you happen to remove the disk before it's
finished moving things around, then your document is corrupted.

This liability is reduced on larger and faster drives (CD, USB flash drives)
but not entirely eliminated. There's an additional problem with files on a
CD (which you wouldn't be concerned about in a library environment), which
is that Word considers all CDs (even the rewritable ones) read-only, so it
can't write the "owner" file to the disk, much less the versions you want to
save, and it will give an error message. In that situation, you *have* to
copy the file to the HD (and remove the "read only" flag) before you can
work on it.

 

[Steve_Ray]

Hi. Tech problems with these forums are worse than I thought. I couldn't
get a 'reply' screen to open at all yesterday (on a Mac). BTW, I prefer
posting and replying to questions in these forums on a Mac because the visual
interface (if not the operational one) is actually much better. On a PC all
I see is a tiny, hard to read window that I'm forced to scroll through, and a
Usenet-type 'thread' history which seems rather archaic.

moment. If you're using Safari, does that mean you're on a Mac?

I don't normally use WORD on Macs, so my questions are actually about using
it on a Windows PC.

I'll be looking into Deep Freeze. The thing is, though, eventually you have
to save the file you're working on to *some* media if you're working on a
public computer. (Or, what do you have in mind -- emailing it?)

I've have rarely experienced the problems you mentioned. Before the Library
got strict about putting the hard drive off limits to users, I used to save
to the HD and then later copy to a FD all the time, almost never without
incident. Temporary files didn't often end up on a floppy disk in my
experience.

But yes, any user has to monitor what they're doing and remain aware enough
not to remove a floppy disk (or flash driver) until it was clear that no
write operations were underway.

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

No, you don't have to *save* the document on removable media. The point is
that you save it to the HD, then Copy or Move to the removable media. The
same in reverse: before you start working on it, you Copy or Move it to the
HD and work on it from there. There's an option in recent versions of Word
(Save tab of Tools | Options) to "Make local copy of files stored on network
or removable drives." That might help.

 

[Steve_Ray]

Thanks again. I didn't understand what you meant. The method you described
is the one I had always used (while saving the the HD was available) -- that
is, I never worked directly off the floppy disk. I opened from the FD, saved
to the HD, edited, resaved to the HD and only at the end of the session,
copied from the HD to the FD.

The system was set up to erase all user-created files that had been saved to
the HD either at the end of the day or anytime the computer was rebooted.

The problem getting the Library to review something like Deep Freeze isn't a
matter of convincing librarians of its worth, but rather the network
administrators, to whom there is no direct link (by patrons). But I'll try.

(BTW, can 'html' or 'BBCode' be used in messages here? And is there any way
to preview composed messages or replies before posting them?)

 

[Graham Mayor]

(BTW, can 'html' or 'BBCode' be used in messages here? And is there
any way to preview composed messages or replies before posting them?)

As most of us who respond view the messages with plain text newsgroup
software - see http://www.gmayor.com/MSNews.htm - anything that does not
relate to plain text may not be seen.

--
<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>><<>
Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com

<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>><<>

 

[Steve_Ray]

There's an option in recent versions of Word
(Save tab of Tools | Options) to "Make local copy of files stored on network
or removable drives." That might help.

For some reason, the Library's 'security' measures include disabling certain
features of programs. In the case of WORD, that unfortunately includes
putting
'Tools|Options' and other 'customizations' off-limits to users. Thanks,
though.

P.S. - Is there a discussion of what's wrong (i.e., the technical problems)
with these discussion forums somewhere here? I have one set of problems when
on a PC and a different set when on a Mac. Yesterday, again I could not get
a 'message reply' screen to open up (on a Mac).

 

[Steve_Ray]

There's an option in recent versions of Word
(Save tab of Tools | Options) to "Make local copy of files stored on network
or removable drives." That might help.

For some reason, the Library's 'security' measures include disabling certain
features of programs. In the case of WORD, that unfortunately includes
putting
'Tools|Options' and other 'customizations' off-limits to users. Thanks,
though.

P.S. - Is there a discussion of what's wrong (i.e., the technical problems)
with these discussion forums somewhere here? I have one set of problems when
on a PC and a different set when on a Mac. Yesterday, again I could not get
a 'message reply' screen to open up (on a Mac).

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

There have been postings in the private MVP NGs about problems getting a
login button. Is that what you're seeing?

 

[Steve_Ray]

As most of us who respond view the messages with plain text newsgroup

software - see http://www.gmayor.com/MSNews.htm - anything that does not
relate to plain text may not be seen.

So 'bold' and 'italics,' etc. (i.e., any ways of making text stand out) are
not possible?

 

[Steve_Ray]

There have been postings in the private MVP NGs about problems getting a
login button. Is that what you're seeing?

No, I don't get a 'message editor' screen after clicking on 'Reply.' That's
on a Mac. It happened again when I tried to reply to this last night. Is
Microsoft trying to make these forums off-limits to Mac users? (just kidding
.. . . I think)

On a PC, I get an error message screen [see below] -- i.e., when linking
directly from the email notifying me that there is a new message in a thread
I'm following. When I repeat that (clicking again on the link in the email),
it usually works the second time.

I've also noticed, however, that when trying to post a 'reply' of my own,
the screen sometimes hangs -- in those cases I've found the reply is not
sent, nor is the compose screen preserved (IOW, I lose the reply message
completely and have to start from scratch. So now I do a Ctrl-a followed by
Ctrl-c before posting -- just in case.)

Here's an example of the error screen I get on the PC (I just got one again
when linking to this thread from the email notification message):
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The page cannot be displayed
The page you are looking for is currently unavailable. The Web site might be
experiencing technical difficulties, or you may need to adjust your browser
settings.

Please try the following:

Click the Refresh button, or try again later.

If you typed the page address in the Address bar, make sure that it is
spelled correctly.

To check your connection settings, click the Tools menu, and then click
Internet Options. On the Connections tab, click Settings. The settings should
match those provided by your local area network (LAN) administrator or
Internet service provider (ISP).

If your Network Administrator has enabled it, Microsoft Windows can examine
your network and automatically discover network connection settings.
If you would like Windows to try and discover them,
click Detect Network Settings

Some sites require 128-bit connection security. Click the Help menu and then
click About Internet Explorer to determine what strength security you have
installed.
If you are trying to reach a secure site, make sure your Security settings
can support it. Click the Tools menu, and then click Internet Options. On the
Advanced tab, scroll to the Security section and check settings for SSL 2.0,
SSL 3.0, TLS 1.0, PCT 1.0.
Click the Back button to try another link.

Cannot find server or DNS Error
Internet Explorer
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Steve_Ray]

There have been postings in the private MVP NGs about problems getting a
login button. Is that what you're seeing?

No, I don't get a 'message editor' screen after clicking on 'Reply.' That's
on a Mac. It happened again when I tried to reply to this last night. Is
Microsoft trying to make these forums off-limits to Mac users? (just kidding
.. . . I think)

On a PC, I get an error message screen [see below] -- i.e., when linking
directly from the email notifying me that there is a new message in a thread
I'm following. When I repeat that (clicking again on the link in the email),
it usually works the second time.

I've also noticed, however, that when trying to post a 'reply' of my own,
the screen sometimes hangs -- in those cases I've found the reply is not
sent, nor is the compose screen preserved (IOW, I lose the reply message
completely and have to start from scratch. So now I do a Ctl-c before
posting -- just in case.) [<-- This in fact just happened. I posted this
reply and after 3 minutes, there's no indication the reply was added to this
thread. Here comes my second attempt.]

Here's an example of the error screen I get on the PC (I just got one again
when linking to this thread from the email notification message)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The page cannot be displayed
The page you are looking for is currently unavailable. The Web site might be
experiencing technical difficulties, or you may need to adjust your browser
settings.

Please try the following:

Click the Refresh button, or try again later.

If you typed the page address in the Address bar, make sure that it is
spelled correctly.

To check your connection settings, click the Tools menu, and then click
Internet Options. On the Connections tab, click Settings. The settings should
match those provided by your local area network (LAN) administrator or
Internet service provider (ISP).

If your Network Administrator has enabled it, Microsoft Windows can examine
your network and automatically discover network connection settings.
If you would like Windows to try and discover them,
click Detect Network Settings

Some sites require 128-bit connection security. Click the Help menu and then
click About Internet Explorer to determine what strength security you have
installed.
If you are trying to reach a secure site, make sure your Security settings
can support it. Click the Tools menu, and then click Internet Options. On the
Advanced tab, scroll to the Security section and check settings for SSL 2.0,
SSL 3.0, TLS 1.0, PCT 1.0.
Click the Back button to try another link.

Cannot find server or DNS Error
Internet Explorer
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Beth Melton]

So 'bold' and 'italics,' etc. (i.e., any ways of making text stand out)
are
not possible?

Typically something like *word*, is used for bold and _word_ is used for
italic.

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton

 

[grammatim]

Typically something like *word*, is used for bold and _word_ is used for
italic.

Those are in fact the AutoFormatAsYouType signals for bold and italic
respectively, and they're _very_ convenient while typing. (Only they
don't work after anything but a space or paragraph mark -- to
italicize something in parentheses, you still have to type Ctrl-I or
do wasteful mouse movements.)

 

[Beth Melton]

Yes, that is correct, but please note my reply is in reference to using the
Web based interface to access the newsgroups and plain text newsreaders --
not typing in Word.

However, while on the subject of the AutoFormat options, using *word* or
_word_ does more than apply direct formatting to your text, which is what
occurs when you use Ctrl+I or Ctrl+B. It adds the Strong (bold) or Emphasis
(italic) character style to the text. So not only are you mixing direct and
style formatting, if you are tracking formatting inconsistencies the mixed
formatting will be marked accordingly. IOW, if you always use the AutoFormat
options then it's best to apply the character style (Strong or Emphasis)
instead of using direct formatting.

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/books/9801.aspx#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/


Those are in fact the AutoFormatAsYouType signals for bold and italic
respectively, and they're _very_ convenient while typing. (Only they
don't work after anything but a space or paragraph mark -- to
italicize something in parentheses, you still have to type Ctrl-I or
do wasteful mouse movements.)