CPU Temp - How hot is too hot?

C

Christoph

I've got an EPoX 8RDA3+ MB and an Athlon 2100+ CPU. I'm
running MBM5 and it's showing that the case temp is 35C and the
CPU temp is 52C. Because I just got this MB and because some
funky things have been going on of late, in the BIOS I set the alarm
temp to 60C to have it shut down the PC (I'd rather not fry my MB
or my CPU). And yesterday when I came home, my system was
shut down. While I don't know for sure, I'd wager it's because the
temp got up to 60C.
I've got a decent heat sync (at least, I think it's decent; it's worked
fine for the last year+), CPU fan and 2 other case fans. All seem to
be running fine. The only problem I'm seeing is that on boot, when
the MB shows the diagnostics w/r/t fan RPMs, etc, I see that the
"Power Fan" is running really, really low RPMs. Like in the 1100's
low. I'm still not too sure why that is because it seems like the fan
is running fine on the power supply. In any case, it seems as if there
is decent cooling in my case. And I'm curious if the numbers that I
detailed above are fine temperature wise? Or should I get more or
better fans?
So, how hot is too hot?

thnx,
Christoph
 
K

kony

I've got an EPoX 8RDA3+ MB and an Athlon 2100+ CPU. I'm
running MBM5 and it's showing that the case temp is 35C and the
CPU temp is 52C. Because I just got this MB and because some
funky things have been going on of late, in the BIOS I set the alarm
temp to 60C to have it shut down the PC (I'd rather not fry my MB
or my CPU).

Do not do that. You are not risking frying CPU at 60C, and that is too
close to your (presumably taken at idle) temp of 52C. Minimum temp for
that setting should be 70C, preferribly 80C or even higher.

Stability on the other hand, may be at risk at 60C towards 70C,
particularly if that CPU is one of the fastest of it's family, that is, if
it's a Palomino instead of Thoroughbred XP2100.

And yesterday when I came home, my system was
shut down. While I don't know for sure, I'd wager it's because the
temp got up to 60C.
I've got a decent heat sync (at least, I think it's decent; it's worked
fine for the last year+), CPU fan and 2 other case fans. All seem to
be running fine.

So what has changed since then?
Is the ambient (room) temp higher?
More heat-producing components in the case?
Changes in airflow, fans, or filters that may be clogged?
Have you dusted out the fans, air intakes, heatsinks?
After a year it may be time to remove heatsink, clean off original
interface material (credit card and petroleum solvent works well for the
AMD original TIM) then apply fresh coat of heatsink compound.

Even so, as of yet is there any reason to be worrying over this?
By your reports, what you've mentioned, the only apparent problem is that
you've set the shut-off temp too low.

A motherboard may read the temp a little less than accurately, and even
same board may read different temp with different bios version or
depending on how far down the thermal sensor is bent if it's not a
direct-die reading. If you really need know what your max temp is, google
search for Prime95 and run it's torture test for a few hours, note the
temp and if it produces any errors.

The only problem I'm seeing is that on boot, when
the MB shows the diagnostics w/r/t fan RPMs, etc, I see that the
"Power Fan" is running really, really low RPMs. Like in the 1100's
low. I'm still not too sure why that is because it seems like the fan
is running fine on the power supply. In any case, it seems as if there
is decent cooling in my case. And I'm curious if the numbers that I
detailed above are fine temperature wise? Or should I get more or
better fans?
So, how hot is too hot?

Most people don't even have their power supply fan monitored, because most
power supplies don't have a plug for that. 1100RPM is a reasonable rate
for a power supply with low to median speed fan controlled by a power
supply with variable fan feature, which almost any decent (and some
not-so-decent) power supplies have. If the air coming out of it seems
particularly hot or it's casing is more than mildly warm, consider
increasing the airflow rate with whatever means is necessary (typically
increasing chassis air intake or swapping in a more powerful fan).

60C is OK but don't let it climb towards 70C for stability reasons, not
hardware damage. AMD provides specs for max temps, all of which are
85-90C or higher.
 
J

John

I've got an EPoX 8RDA3+ MB and an Athlon 2100+ CPU. I'm
running MBM5 and it's showing that the case temp is 35C and the
CPU temp is 52C. Because I just got this MB and because some
funky things have been going on of late, in the BIOS I set the alarm
temp to 60C to have it shut down the PC (I'd rather not fry my MB
or my CPU). And yesterday when I came home, my system was
shut down. While I don't know for sure, I'd wager it's because the
temp got up to 60C.
I've got a decent heat sync (at least, I think it's decent; it's worked
fine for the last year+), CPU fan and 2 other case fans. All seem to
be running fine. The only problem I'm seeing is that on boot, when
the MB shows the diagnostics w/r/t fan RPMs, etc, I see that the
"Power Fan" is running really, really low RPMs. Like in the 1100's
low. I'm still not too sure why that is because it seems like the fan
is running fine on the power supply. In any case, it seems as if there
is decent cooling in my case. And I'm curious if the numbers that I
detailed above are fine temperature wise? Or should I get more or
better fans?
So, how hot is too hot?

thnx,
Christoph
Actually 140 F isnt in the danger zone and 52C or 126F is OK.

I live in a place thats usually around 75-85 F and with all my
processors from the 1000 Athlon to my current 2500 barton OCed to 3200
I like to keep it in the 104-120 range.

In fact my barton is around 104 to 116-118 nowadays with the stock
heatsink which Im satisfied with. I used to get 114F-125F with a
primitive older cooler on my 1000 and around there for my 1600and 1700
until I got a better heatsink and redid it with arctic silver ages ago
when I first got it and it went down to around 108F-122F.

The worst CPU is the old 1.4 gig before they went to the XPs. Thats
runs the hottest. Its got the biggest heatsink and fan and Ive redone
it many times but its very difficult to get it lower than 114F-135 F.

People have postedthe range of temps that AMD says its ok and the max
if very high. I cant remember it but its high. Most of the posts seem
to group around two ranges - people with really low readings 100F-120F
and people with fairly high ranges 120F-140F . I would sort of worry
if its getting way past that range all the time - 145 - 150 F and
probably work to get it down to the 114F-125F range depending on
ambient temps. If you live in the Sahara desert or death valley and
its the peak of summer obviously thats going to be different than
someone living at the North Pole.

Make sure you have good venitlation, air flow in your case that really
makes a difference with the 1.4 gig - that thing is a heater.
 
S

Sorrow

CPU temp is 52C. Because I just got this MB and because some
Do not do that. You are not risking frying CPU at 60C, and that is too
close to your (presumably taken at idle) temp of 52C. Minimum temp for
that setting should be 70C, preferribly 80C or even higher.

Ok, noted.
Stability on the other hand, may be at risk at 60C towards 70C,
particularly if that CPU is one of the fastest of it's family, that is, if
it's a Palomino instead of Thoroughbred XP2100.

I think it's a Thoroughbred. Is there any way to easily tell which family
the chip is in? I don't recall offhand...
So what has changed since then?

I got a new motherboard. My EPoX 8RDA+ recently died due to the
capicitor problem that seems to have run rampant over the last few
years.
Is the ambient (room) temp higher?
More heat-producing components in the case?
Changes in airflow, fans, or filters that may be clogged?
Nope

Have you dusted out the fans, air intakes, heatsinks?

Yes. I dust everything fairly regularly and I totally cleaned everything
when I put the new motherboard in 2 weeks ago.
After a year it may be time to remove heatsink, clean off original
interface material (credit card and petroleum solvent works well for the
AMD original TIM) then apply fresh coat of heatsink compound.

What do you mean by "interface material"?
Even so, as of yet is there any reason to be worrying over this?

Yes. I think there might be. I'm trying to determine the cause of other
problems that I seem to be having and I was thinking that they might be
heat related. You can read my post regarding those other problems
here:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=a...TF-8&[email protected]&rnum=2
By your reports, what you've mentioned, the only apparent problem is that
you've set the shut-off temp too low.

Granted, it's the only thing I mentioned in this post. I have another post
that
details the actual problems I seem to be having (see above). And I wasn't
sure if 60C was too low.
A motherboard may read the temp a little less than accurately, and even
same board may read different temp with different bios version or
depending on how far down the thermal sensor is bent if it's not a
direct-die reading. If you really need know what your max temp is, google
search for Prime95 and run it's torture test for a few hours, note the
temp and if it produces any errors.

I downloaded cpu burn-in this morning and it's running on that PC now.
Most people don't even have their power supply fan monitored, because most
power supplies don't have a plug for that. 1100RPM is a reasonable rate
for a power supply with low to median speed fan controlled by a power
supply with variable fan feature, which almost any decent (and some
not-so-decent) power supplies have.

Well, mine is an Antec 400W PSU. As far as I know, that's a really good
brand. And the only reason I'm thinking it's low is because it's showing up
as red (whereas my CPU fan is showing up in a regular color). And I seem
to recall on my old MB (which was an EPoX 8RDA+), it had RPMs of up
to 3000-4000+.
If the air coming out of it seems particularly hot or it's casing is more than
mildly warm,

It's kinda coolish.
60C is OK but don't let it climb towards 70C for stability reasons, not
hardware damage. AMD provides specs for max temps, all of which are
85-90C or higher.

Ok, good to know!

thnx,
Christoph
 
K

kony

I think it's a Thoroughbred. Is there any way to easily tell which family
the chip is in? I don't recall offhand...

WCPUID would tell you based on the model/family info.
http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA002374/src/download.html
but easiest way is voltage, a Palomino is default of 1.75V, while
Thoroughbred is, hmm, I forget, around 1.6-1.65V.

I got a new motherboard. My EPoX 8RDA+ recently died due to the
capicitor problem that seems to have run rampant over the last few
years.

It happens, though a power-hungry CPU plus hot system will accelerate
their demise.
Yes. I dust everything fairly regularly and I totally cleaned everything
when I put the new motherboard in 2 weeks ago.


What do you mean by "interface material"?

That which is between heatsink bottom and CPU top.
On retail chips or with some OEMs, it's not grease or paste but a
gooey-waxy-bobblegum like wad of gunk. Well, not really a wad till you
scrape it into one.
Yes. I think there might be. I'm trying to determine the cause of other
problems that I seem to be having and I was thinking that they might be
heat related. You can read my post regarding those other problems
here:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=a...TF-8&[email protected]&rnum=2


OH, well that's happening when you first turn the system on though, which
isn't overheating. If heatsink were quite badly interfaced with CPU it
could lock up that quick, but that isn't the case since it IS still
keeping cpu at 60C, which isn't great but plenty cool enough that it
shouldn't halt before it even finishes the first part of the POST.

See some of the other posts, how a basic introducton to all parts of your
system may help us narrow things down a bit. Although you may've
mentioned that in previous postings it's always good to carry over that
basic info to expedite things and get newcomers up to speed on your
situation.

So you've had two different boards and still potential problems. Is it a
decent power supply? Do you have the option of taking voltage readings
with a meter?

Have you tried using only one memory module, and testing memory with
http://www.memtest86.com?

If you unplug all non-essential (to POSTING, not booting the OS) hardware,
does it make any difference? How about if you underclock the CPU?

Sometimes nForce2 boards are picky about settings like 8X AGP, it might
help if you disable that or at least revert to lower, 4x, 2x multiplier if
those are options, and disable other AGP features for the time being.

How about the bios? If you check DFI's site is the version your board is
running a fairly mature bios or closer to 1st, 2nd release that may be
buggy, might need updated?

Getting a new build working right after a previous failure can be
difficult, especially when there are so many variables and it's
intermittent. Basically you can just tackle as many as possible and
disable features, pull components, set slow settings in bios, etc, till it
appears to be working. If that never happens then you'll have to take a
2nd look at those base components like video, motherboard, power, memory.

I just don't think the CPU, at 60C after it's been running a while, could
have any impact on the system halting after only a few seconds of POSTing.
Granted, it's the only thing I mentioned in this post. I have another post
that
details the actual problems I seem to be having (see above). And I wasn't
sure if 60C was too low.

Well you may have some bios settings you could use to downclock the CPU.
For example you can change multiplier and have motherboard running same
FSB rate but less power, or lower FSB but raise multiplier (if board
supports that) and be using same amount of power for CPU, only a tiny bit
less for motherbaord, but be putting less demand on memory bus (assuming
you're running synchronous memory bus, DO run synchronous (same speed as
FSB) memory bus.
I downloaded cpu burn-in this morning and it's running on that PC now.

CPU burn-in?
Not familiar with that one, I suggest Prime95 because it's Torture Test,
particularly the "in-place large FFTs" test will often catch CPU
instability within a minute or so... if it runs for longer than that it
may go for hours, which at that point would typically be beyond such a
thin margin of stability that it'd freeze at POST.
Well, mine is an Antec 400W PSU. As far as I know, that's a really good
brand. And the only reason I'm thinking it's low is because it's showing up
as red (whereas my CPU fan is showing up in a regular color). And I seem
to recall on my old MB (which was an EPoX 8RDA+), it had RPMs of up
to 3000-4000+.

Are you sure you have the fans' plugged into the correct headers? That
is, if the CPU fan header has a thermal RPM adjustment feature (slow down
fan if system not very hot) and you had the PSU fan plugged into that then
of course it'd reduce the fan speed, though I thought the fan had only an
RPM out, was still powered by the PSU.... almost certain of it.
 
M

Miss Perspicacia Tick

kony said:
WCPUID would tell you based on the model/family info.
http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA002374/src/download.html
but easiest way is voltage, a Palomino is default of 1.75V, while
Thoroughbred is, hmm, I forget, around 1.6-1.65V.

A friend of mine with his own IT business told me that you can tell by the
shape of the die. A Palomino has a squarish die and the Thoroughbred's is
more rectangular...Or was it the other way around...?
 
K

kony

A friend of mine with his own IT business told me that you can tell by the
shape of the die. A Palomino has a squarish die and the Thoroughbred's is
more rectangular...Or was it the other way around...?

Yes, Palomino's die is noticably larger, closer to square. Didn't mention
that since heatsink is still installed. Various Windows utilities might
also report it, though they'd have to be new enough to have T'Bred's CPU
ID to reference.
 

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