CPU Problems

[Pete]

Hi All,

I just installed a new CPU (LGA775) in my desktop PC.

This was an upgrade from a "Celeron D (# 331) @ 2.6GHZ" to a "Intel
P4 (# 630) 3.0GHz"....

The PC is a KLOSS KL-I915A.

If interested a review can be seen here:

http://techreport.com/reviews/2005q1/kloss-kli915a/index.x?pg=1


With the old Celeron in the machine it works perfectly. Everything is
recognised and it runs XP & Linux OK..

However the new CPU won't even post. (blank monitor.)

The CPU fan is spinning..

The PC has a front display and I see it flashing up a signal
sayingsomething indicating "CPU Diagnostics" and then that fades and
an error message comes up indicating a problem with "MEM" (memory.)


I removed the PCI network card (only 1 PCI slot) to make things less
complex.

Video is onboard. PS2 Keyboard & Mouse. Nothing else attached.

I have tried 3 different Memory SIMs. 2 being PC3200 (256MB) and one
is PC2100 (at 512MB). All these do work in this machine with the
Celeron fitted. They also work in another machine without problems.

The P4 CPU will not run with any of them and just gives the "FAIL"
message "MEM".. (It gives the same when no memory is fitted also.)

I have swapped the CPU in and out a couple of times and have reset the
BIOS to failsafe (did this with the Celeron in - but prior reboot put
the P4 back in.).. Still the same error.

I can't test the P4 CPU in another machine as my other PC has a
different style slot.


Now my question:
===================

Could this CPU be damaged?

Or is there something that might cause 3 different and confirmed
working memory modules to be not recognised?

I guess the third question is whether there would be a compatability
problem between the CPU and the machine / mobo? (From the
manufacturers data I can not see this as an issue - though I might be
wrong...)


Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Regards

Pete

 

[Rod Speed]

I just installed a new CPU (LGA775) in my desktop PC.

This was an upgrade from a "Celeron D (# 331) @ 2.6GHZ"
to a "Intel P4 (# 630) 3.0GHz"....

Pretty marginal 'upgrade' IMO.

The PC is a KLOSS KL-I915A.

If interested a review can be seen here:

With the old Celeron in the machine it works perfectly.
Everything is recognised and it runs XP & Linux OK..

However the new CPU won't even post. (blank monitor.)

The CPU fan is spinning..

The PC has a front display and I see it flashing up a signal saying
something indicating "CPU Diagnostics" and then that fades and an
error message comes up indicating a problem with "MEM" (memory.)

I removed the PCI network card (only 1 PCI slot) to make things less complex.

Always worth trying.

Video is onboard. PS2 Keyboard & Mouse. Nothing else attached.

I have tried 3 different Memory SIMs. 2 being PC3200 (256MB) and
one is PC2100 (at 512MB). All these do work in this machine with the
Celeron fitted. They also work in another machine without problems.

The P4 CPU will not run with any of them and just gives the "FAIL"
message "MEM".. (It gives the same when no memory is fitted also.)

I have swapped the CPU in and out a couple of times and have
reset the BIOS to failsafe (did this with the Celeron in - but
prior reboot put the P4 back in.).. Still the same error.

I can't test the P4 CPU in another machine as my other PC has a different style slot.

Now my question:
===================

Could this CPU be damaged?

Very unlikely unless someone has been aggressively
overclocking it or has run it without a proper heatsink etc.
And it wouldnt normally work at all if its been killed that way.

Or is there something that might cause 3 different and
confirmed working memory modules to be not recognised?

Unlikely given that they work fine with the celeron cpu.

Try resetting the cmos.

Its more likely that for some reason that P4 isnt being run
with the right detail because the bios hasnt set it up properly.

I'd update the bios with the latest available,
using the celeron cpu and see if that helps.

I guess the third question is whether there would be a compatability
problem between the CPU and the machine / mobo?

Unlikely that it stayed that way for long, it should have been fixed
with a new bios if it had happened with the bios you are using.

(From the manufacturers data I can not see
this as an issue - though I might be wrong...)

Most dont necessarily list too completely what the various bios revs actually fix.

 

[Paul]

Hi All,

I just installed a new CPU (LGA775) in my desktop PC.

This was an upgrade from a "Celeron D (# 331) @ 2.6GHZ" to a "Intel
P4 (# 630) 3.0GHz"....

The PC is a KLOSS KL-I915A.

If interested a review can be seen here:

http://techreport.com/reviews/2005q1/kloss-kli915a/index.x?pg=1


With the old Celeron in the machine it works perfectly. Everything is
recognised and it runs XP & Linux OK..

However the new CPU won't even post. (blank monitor.)

The CPU fan is spinning..

The PC has a front display and I see it flashing up a signal
sayingsomething indicating "CPU Diagnostics" and then that fades and
an error message comes up indicating a problem with "MEM" (memory.)


I removed the PCI network card (only 1 PCI slot) to make things less
complex.

Video is onboard. PS2 Keyboard & Mouse. Nothing else attached.

I have tried 3 different Memory SIMs. 2 being PC3200 (256MB) and one
is PC2100 (at 512MB). All these do work in this machine with the
Celeron fitted. They also work in another machine without problems.

The P4 CPU will not run with any of them and just gives the "FAIL"
message "MEM".. (It gives the same when no memory is fitted also.)

I have swapped the CPU in and out a couple of times and have reset the
BIOS to failsafe (did this with the Celeron in - but prior reboot put
the P4 back in.).. Still the same error.

I can't test the P4 CPU in another machine as my other PC has a
different style slot.


Now my question:
===================

Could this CPU be damaged?

Or is there something that might cause 3 different and confirmed
working memory modules to be not recognised?

I guess the third question is whether there would be a compatability
problem between the CPU and the machine / mobo? (From the
manufacturers data I can not see this as an issue - though I might be
wrong...)


Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Regards

Pete

Any chance of you providing a URL for the support site ?
I tried trigem.co.kr, but cannot figure out where to go with
trigem.com to find some English.

The power supply is an Enhance 250W.
http://img.hexus.net/v2/sff/trigem/kli915a/images/psu_big.jpg

The power rating of the Celeron 331 and the Pentium4 630 is the
same, at 84W. So while it would be fun to blame this on power,
that might not be it. Especially as you still have fans spinning
and the diagnostic system lights up etc.

If you could point me to a page with BIOS files, I could take
a stab at extracting the microcode module and seeing what processor
types are listed in it. The Intel 630 processor has a couple of
weird steppings, and it could be that the family code of the
processor you are using, has upset the BIOS.

Paul

 

[kony]

Hi All,

I just installed a new CPU (LGA775) in my desktop PC.

This was an upgrade from a "Celeron D (# 331) @ 2.6GHZ" to a "Intel
P4 (# 630) 3.0GHz"....

The PC is a KLOSS KL-I915A.

If interested a review can be seen here:

http://techreport.com/reviews/2005q1/kloss-kli915a/index.x?pg=1


With the old Celeron in the machine it works perfectly. Everything is
recognised and it runs XP & Linux OK..

However the new CPU won't even post. (blank monitor.)

The CPU fan is spinning..

The PC has a front display and I see it flashing up a signal
sayingsomething indicating "CPU Diagnostics" and then that fades and
an error message comes up indicating a problem with "MEM" (memory.)


I removed the PCI network card (only 1 PCI slot) to make things less
complex.

Video is onboard. PS2 Keyboard & Mouse. Nothing else attached.

I have tried 3 different Memory SIMs. 2 being PC3200 (256MB) and one
is PC2100 (at 512MB). All these do work in this machine with the
Celeron fitted. They also work in another machine without problems.

The P4 CPU will not run with any of them and just gives the "FAIL"
message "MEM".. (It gives the same when no memory is fitted also.)

I have swapped the CPU in and out a couple of times and have reset the
BIOS to failsafe (did this with the Celeron in - but prior reboot put
the P4 back in.).. Still the same error.

I can't test the P4 CPU in another machine as my other PC has a
different style slot.


Now my question:
===================

Could this CPU be damaged?

Or is there something that might cause 3 different and confirmed
working memory modules to be not recognised?

I guess the third question is whether there would be a compatability
problem between the CPU and the machine / mobo? (From the
manufacturers data I can not see this as an issue - though I might be
wrong...)

I would've suspected memory incompatibility, but with these
3 modules (presuming they're not all same model) it would
seem unlikely, unless they all happened to have timings the
board doesn't like at this higher FSB speed. I presume you
did try each of the PC3200 modules alone?

Have you tried clearing CMOS then powering on the first time
with the P4 installed?

I know nothing about this m'board though but for what you
mentioned, have you checked on a BIOS update?

 

[Pete]

Pretty marginal 'upgrade' IMO.

I would agree in terms of speed but I was hoping the 2MB cache would
be advantageous. The Celeron only has L2 256KB and 'seems' to stutter
slightly when running multiple tasks.

SNIP

Try resetting the cmos.

Now you mention it I did not clear the cmos using either the mobo
jumper or by removing the battery.. I'll give that a go tommorow.

Its more likely that for some reason that P4 isnt being run
with the right detail because the bios hasnt set it up properly.

I'd update the bios with the latest available,
using the celeron cpu and see if that helps.

The BIOS is the latest available so nothing more I can do on this.

Unlikely that it stayed that way for long, it should have been fixed
with a new bios if it had happened with the bios you are using.

This is where it gets tricky... Trigem stuffed it's customers and
withdrew all support almost globally for the western hemesphere after
they were inundated with complaints about the Kloss (mostly from the
gaming crowd wanting to fit large video cards..)..so there are no more
updates or support


Cheers for ideas.. I should have tried a hard cmos reset.. Thanks for
reminding me.

Pete

 

[Pete]

SNIP
SNIP


Any chance of you providing a URL for the support site ?
I tried trigem.co.kr, but cannot figure out where to go with
trigem.com to find some English.

Paul,

I can't as Trigem pulled "all" Western Hemisphere support and closed
down their international english language support and their separate
US based web site. They truely stuffed their customers in an emotional
(almost childish) response to complaints over the Kloss. (The gaming
crowd kept complaining that there wasn't enough space to fit a large
video card inside..)

That and I think there were a few complaints about detection of the
the onboard LAN. I have never gotten mine to work either

Shame as it's actually a nice start to a SFF range that could have had
some great potential for Trigem.

The power supply is an Enhance 250W.
http://img.hexus.net/v2/sff/trigem/kli915a/images/psu_big.jpg

The power rating of the Celeron 331 and the Pentium4 630 is the
same, at 84W. So while it would be fun to blame this on power,
that might not be it. Especially as you still have fans spinning
and the diagnostic system lights up etc.

Funny - most reviews suggest the power supply might not be up to much
but I run SETI 100% 24/7 (basically crunching star map data all the
time.) the PC has never failed or complained so far... So I think the
PSU is OK for general use. (Temp' never gets over 52c.)

If you could point me to a page with BIOS files, I could take
a stab at extracting the microcode module and seeing what processor
types are listed in it. The Intel 630 processor has a couple of
weird steppings, and it could be that the family code of the
processor you are using, has upset the BIOS.

If you have the ability to do that I would be truely greatful.

There is no manufacturers site but there is a 'user' provided site
with the latest rom (0.4MB) on.

Here: http://www.kloss-drivers.com

The Kloss was near new when I got it and it had been prior flashed up
to the last version (Ver 2.05).. I guess I could revert back and see
how that works.

Cheers.

Pete

 

[Pete]

SNIP


Kony,

I would've suspected memory incompatibility, but with these
3 modules (presuming they're not all same model) it would
seem unlikely, unless they all happened to have timings the
board doesn't like at this higher FSB speed. I presume you
did try each of the PC3200 modules alone?

I tried them every way possible. They are all generic SIMs but from 2
different manufacturers. (The 2 256MB SIMs are a matched pair.)

Have you tried clearing CMOS then powering on the first time
with the P4 installed?

Well I reset the BIOS but as 'Rod' in an above message and now you
have reminded me I didn't actually reset the CMOS via the jumper on
the mobo.. I'm going senile.. Doh... I'll try that in the morning..

I know nothing about this m'board though but for what you
mentioned, have you checked on a BIOS update?

It's partly a proprietary style motherboard made specifically for this
barebones machine so not well known.

Cheers for ideas.

Pete

 

[Paul]

Paul,

I can't as Trigem pulled "all" Western Hemisphere support and closed
down their international english language support and their separate
US based web site. They truely stuffed their customers in an emotional
(almost childish) response to complaints over the Kloss. (The gaming
crowd kept complaining that there wasn't enough space to fit a large
video card inside..)

That and I think there were a few complaints about detection of the
the onboard LAN. I have never gotten mine to work either

Shame as it's actually a nice start to a SFF range that could have had
some great potential for Trigem.


Funny - most reviews suggest the power supply might not be up to much
but I run SETI 100% 24/7 (basically crunching star map data all the
time.) the PC has never failed or complained so far... So I think the
PSU is OK for general use. (Temp' never gets over 52c.)


If you have the ability to do that I would be truely greatful.

There is no manufacturers site but there is a 'user' provided site
with the latest rom (0.4MB) on.

Here: http://www.kloss-drivers.com

The Kloss was near new when I got it and it had been prior flashed up
to the last version (Ver 2.05).. I guess I could revert back and see
how that works.

Cheers.

Pete

OK. I decoded the 2.05 release BIOS file. It is an AMI BIOS, and
can be dissected with mmtool. The microcode is in the P6 module.
Page 353 of this Intel manual, can be used to decode the module.
The total size declaration in one chunk, tells you where the next
chunk begins (generally on 2K boundaries, 2K = 0x0800 hex is the
min size).

http://web.archive.org/*/http://developer.intel.com/design/pentium4/manuals/25366814.pdf

The hex offset and family code of the processor support:

Hexaddr Family_code_for_microcode
0000 0F34
2000 0F41
3800 0F41
4800 0F29
5000 0F43
5800 0F30
6800 0F37
7800 0F26
8000 0F36
9800 0F30
A800 0F31
B800 0F32
C000 0F33
C800 0F37
D000 0F25

This 630 processor is 0F43.
http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SL7Z9

This 630 processor is 0F4A.
http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SL8Q7

It looks like the 630 is a bit more modern than the
BIOS support.

You can look up other processors you plan to try, on
processorfinder.intel.com and see if the family code
is in the list above.

It is still possible for a motherboard to POST, even
if the microcode is missing. Some motherboards will
allow that. WinXP has its own microcode loader, and
will load a microcode patch when the desktop appears.
But that was a sticking point with WinXP, and when one
of the service packs came out, some BIOS did not have
the latest microcode patch, and the OS plus service
pack could not boot. So even if the BIOS allows the
system to POST and boot, the result may not always be
a success. And that is why it is reassuring to find
a microcode patch in the BIOS you are using.

The BIOS also may not be getting hung up about the
microcode itself. The processor identification is
also recorded in the DMI/ESCD, and maybe since the
processor is not of the expected type, the BIOS
stopped there. (The purpose of analyzing the microcode
is to tell whether the BIOS designers were planning
for the processor or not. Sort of like "carbon dating".)

I am aware of a non-invasive procedure for adding
microcode to an Award BIOS based computer, but none
for AMI. For AMI, you could try adding a microcode chunk
into the microcode module and insert it back into the BIOS.
I would want a BIOS Savior device (which contains a backup
flash chip) before flashing such a modified BIOS file.
Failure to take precautions could lead to a failure to
boot at all, with any processor. Then you'd have to spend
$25 at badflash.com, assuming the BIOS chip is socketed
and can be replaced. If the BIOS chip is soldered directly
to the motherboard, then replacing the flash chip after
a bad flash attempt, is a lot tougher.

Paul

 

[Rod Speed]

I would agree in terms of speed but I was hoping the 2MB
cache would be advantageous. The Celeron only has L2 256KB

I'd be surprised if you could even pick it in a proper double
blind trial with most normal personal desktop PC usage.

and 'seems' to stutter slightly when running multiple tasks.

It shouldnt and my Celeron doesnt.

Now you mention it I did not clear the cmos using either the mobo
jumper or by removing the battery.. I'll give that a go tommorow.

The BIOS is the latest available so nothing more I can do on this.

This is where it gets tricky... Trigem stuffed it's customers and
withdrew all support almost globally for the western hemesphere
after they were inundated with complaints about the Kloss

OK, then it may well just be a design dud.
The celeron should work fine.
In spades with the P4.

(mostly from the gaming crowd wanting to fit large video cards..)..
so there are no more updates or support

Cheers for ideas.. I should have tried a hard cmos reset..
Thanks for reminding me.

No problem, thats what these technical newsgroups are all about.

Please post the washup.

 

[johannes]

I tried them every way possible. They are all generic SIMs but from 2
different manufacturers. (The 2 256MB SIMs are a matched pair.)


Well I reset the BIOS but as 'Rod' in an above message and now you
have reminded me I didn't actually reset the CMOS via the jumper on
the mobo.. I'm going senile.. Doh... I'll try that in the morning..

It's partly a proprietary style motherboard made specifically for this
barebones machine so not well known.

Cheers for ideas.

Pete

You could also try to reduce the FSB MHz in BIOS, down to the Celeron
FSB speed, just to check if this an issue. 200MHz->133MHz in BIOS.

 

[Pete]

SNIP
SNIP

Paul,

Many thanks for looking at this. I need to read and digest all you
have written.

I tried the hard CMOS reset on the mobo but no joy. That and your
findings simply confirm that the BIOS doesn't support the 630 chip at
present.

Sadly as Trigem have dropped it's support I doubt they will be putting
out any updates.

The idea of hacking, so to speak, the BIOS occured to me also but it's
a bit beyond me at the moment given the dangers.

One thing I noticed but haven't tried yet is the ability to switch off
the Kloss's own boot diagnostics in the BIOS... Might be worth one
last try but other than that I guess I'll put the CPU on the shelf..

I wanted to get another PC up and running anyway so I might as well
hold the 630 for that until a solution for the KLOSS comes up.

I actually found your technical description easy to read Paul and I'll
be looking up MMTool...

Thanks for all the help - it's much appreciated.

Pete
=====

 

[Pete]

No problem, thats what these technical newsgroups are all about.


Please post the washup.

Well I tried the CMOS hard reset and the problem persists.

Paul in another message looked at the BIOS and confirmed that it
wasn't setup to recognise the 630 so without a BIOS fix I doubt I will
get much joy now.

I need to do a bit more research but I'll put the project on hold for
a while now.

At least all this suggests the CPU itself is probably not dead so
that's good.

Cheers for help.

Pete

 

[Pete]

On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 10:07:51 GMT, johannes

SNIP

johannes,

You could also try to reduce the FSB MHz in BIOS, down to the Celeron
FSB speed, just to check if this an issue. 200MHz->133MHz in BIOS.

I did when I first saw the "MEM" error message flash think that it may
be a timing problem or something.... I'll come back to this all
later..

Cheers

Pete

 

[Rod Speed]

Well I tried the CMOS hard reset and the problem persists.

Paul in another message looked at the BIOS and confirmed that it
wasn't setup to recognise the 630 so without a BIOS fix I doubt I will
get much joy now.

I need to do a bit more research but I'll put the project on hold for
a while now.

At least all this suggests the CPU itself is probably not dead so
that's good.

And the two cpus arent that far apart performance wise,
so its really no big deal that the 630 isnt liked by the bios.

Cheers for help.

Thanks for the washup.