Correct Ram to buy for new K8V-SE Deluxe MOBO?

[who]

I am about to buy (unless someone warns me not to):

ASUS K8V-SE Deluxe MOBO
AMD Athlon 64 3400+ 1MB Cache

I am concerned what brand/type of DDR400 (PC3200) memory
to buy. I am worried about compatibility with the MOBO. One 512MB?
Two 512MB? Dual Channel DDR (2X512) or Single Channel?

Thanks

 

[Cuzman]

" I am concerned what brand/type of DDR400 (PC3200) memory to buy. I am
worried about compatibility with the MOBO. One 512MB? Two 512MB? Dual
Channel DDR (2X512) or Single Channel? "


You'll need to buy DDR that is 'unbuffered' and 'non-ECC', as opposed to
'registered' and 'ECC'. Whether you want to buy 1x or 2x 512MB is dependant
on your needs, but a system like yours is probably crying out for 2x 512MB.

'Dual-channel' is an operation performed from the motherboard, not specific
to the RAM you buy. Dual-channel kits seem to just be two identical sticks
of RAM taken from the same production line. You should be able to get the
same dual-channel performance from buying two seperate, but identical,
sticks of DDR.

Something important to understand is what RAM timings are, and how they
affect performance:

http://www.cooltechzone.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=377&Itemid=0
http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/fma/P4tweakRAM2.htm
http://www.pcguide.com/ref/ram/timing.htm
http://people.bath.ac.uk/bs3jf/08 - RAM Timings Explained.htm

 

[who]

You'll need to buy DDR that is 'unbuffered' and 'non-ECC', as opposed to
'registered' and 'ECC'. Whether you want to buy 1x or 2x 512MB is dependant
on your needs, but a system like yours is probably crying out for 2x 512MB.

'Dual-channel' is an operation performed from the motherboard, not specific
to the RAM you buy. Dual-channel kits seem to just be two identical sticks
of RAM taken from the same production line. You should be able to get the
same dual-channel performance from buying two seperate, but identical,
sticks of DDR.

Something important to understand is what RAM timings are, and how they
affect performance:

http://www.cooltechzone.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=377&Itemid=0
http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/fma/P4tweakRAM2.htm
http://www.pcguide.com/ref/ram/timing.htm
http://people.bath.ac.uk/bs3jf/08 - RAM Timings Explained.htm

This clears things up some for me.

I thought I should stick to memory 'qualified' by ASUS (listed on
their website), but when I looked around, especially at Newegg (the
vendor at which I am looking at the K8V-SE), of all the 20 or so
memory sticks listed by ASUS, I could only find the Kingston
KVR400X64C3A at Newegg.

What really bothers me is that although ASUS 'qualifies' the Kingston,
Egghead shows it as 200-pin. So far I can't find out from Egghead if
this is only an Egghead blunder or what.

I was surprised that Crucial wasn't in the ASUS list.

OT - What video (AGP) would you recommend for this setup? Any ideas?

Thanks

 

[Cuzman]

" I thought I should stick to memory 'qualified' by ASUS (listed on their
website), but when I looked around, especially at Newegg (the vendor at
which I am looking at the K8V-SE), of all the 20 or so memory sticks listed
by ASUS, I could only find the Kingston KVR400X64C3A at Newegg. "

Those lists should never ne taken as gospel.

1) Go to http://www.newegg.com/app/manufact.asp?catalog=147&DEPA=1
2) Input the following fields...
Manufacturer: Any
Type: 184pin DDR DIMM
Capacity: 1GB(2x512MB)
Speed: PC3200 (DDR400 200MHZ)
Registered/Unbuffered: Unbuffered
ECC: No

I can't guarantee individually, but all the resulting products from that
search should have no incompatibility problems with your K8V-SE. Newegg
don't seem to stock generic unbranded RAM, which is usually the main cause
for incompatibility problems.

If you're after value, then look towards CL2.5 DDR as it's now competitively
priced with CL3. If you're feeling a little richer, then go for some
performance DDR with lower timings.


" What really bothers me is that although ASUS 'qualifies' the Kingston,
Egghead shows it as 200-pin. So far I can't find out from Egghead if this
is only an Egghead blunder or what. "

Egghead, the Amazon.com affiliate? It's most likely a blunder. You want
184-pin desktop DDR, not 200-pin laptop DDR. I wouldn't take information
from Egghead above that from other websites.


" I was surprised that Crucial wasn't in the ASUS list. "

These RAM compatibility lists are very strange. Many manufacturers are
'in-bed' with each other, and don't seem to list RAM from certain
manufacturers. Others just seem to be lazy, and have extremely short lists.
Surely they can all do each other a favour, exchange products, and do the
work in order to complete these lists. It would be better for the
manufacturers involved, as well as the buyers. I'm sure that RAM
compatibility issues have become more ironed-out with each new DDR chipset
release. In theory, the K8V-SE shouldn't have trouble with PC3200 from any
respected manufacturer.


" OT - What video (AGP) would you recommend for this setup? Any ideas? "

That all depends on your budget.
http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/over2k4/index.html
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20041004/

 

[kony]

This clears things up some for me.

I thought I should stick to memory 'qualified' by ASUS (listed on
their website), but when I looked around, especially at Newegg (the
vendor at which I am looking at the K8V-SE), of all the 20 or so
memory sticks listed by ASUS, I could only find the Kingston
KVR400X64C3A at Newegg.

What really bothers me is that although ASUS 'qualifies' the Kingston,
Egghead shows it as 200-pin. So far I can't find out from Egghead if
this is only an Egghead blunder or what.

I was surprised that Crucial wasn't in the ASUS list.

OT - What video (AGP) would you recommend for this setup? Any ideas?

Thanks

Asus qualified modules are one alternative.
Another is visiting a web forum like http://forums.amdmb.com
to see what fellow users of that board, are using.

Another is buying from someplace with guaranteed
compatibility like http://www.crucial.com. Keep in mind
that Asus qualifies by testing, that which they didn't test
may easily work, it just wasn't in their hands or on top of
the stack or (whatever the reason) when they were done
testing. Certainly none of their boards have even
approached listing all the makes/models of memory that'll
work. Main thing is that regardless of what you buy,
unless you're alread highly confident that it's going to
work, buy from someplace with a good return policy.
Particuarly, avoid the lowest-cost vendors on pricewatch
selling off-brand/"major" specified modules only as they may
have no goal other than to be paid and are experienced in
contesting credit card chargebacks.

Then there's reviews from sellers like Newegg.com, if you
read the user comments for that board you're likely to see a
few different memory configurations mentioned.

If you want a "generic" suggestion (though not generic-brand
memory) try Kingston or Corsair CAS 2.5 PC3200, or even
higher PC(nnnn) rating if you plan to overclock. You can
also buy memory direct from Kingston on their website.

As for the video - the choice has everything to do with what
your needs are. Many people like Geforce 6600 for
cost-effective gaming but if you want a better card (spend
more) or if there's no gaming planned then focus on the
minimum feature set you DO need.

 

[Fitz]

This board (nor any of the current NForce 3 754 pin boards) support dual
channel memory. There is no performance to be gained by using 2 X 512 MB vs
a 1 GB stick of RAM. But I would definitely get at least 1 GB of RAM.

I would recommend you stay away from any "Value" line of RAM, and go for
quality. Personally, I prefer Mushkin (which is what I'm running in my AMD64
3200+), Corsair or Geil for high performance RAM. I have found that some RAM
advertised as CL2 will run at that setting at 333 MHz, but not at
400MHz...it steps up to CL2.5.

You'll notice that Mushkin isn't on the compatibility chart either
(reference your surprise at Crucial not being there). ASUS, AMD, etc doesn't
test every manufactures product line of RAM for compatibility- it wouldn't
surprise me to find there is a "testing" fee to get on those list that some
manufacturers don't feel the need to pay. I would have no problem putting
Crucial memory in that machine.

Consider using PC3500 (433MHz) vs PC3200. If your motherboard as a
"Performance" setting option in the BIOS, having RAM rated a little faster
may help with stability if you choose that option. The performance option on
my board provides a mild overclock from 200 to 208 MHZ, the resulting RAM
speed is 416MHz.

Good Luck,
Fitz

 

[Fitz]

sorry- first line should read "This board doesn't support dual channel
memory."

 

[who]

This board (nor any of the current NForce 3 754 pin boards) does not support dual
channel memory. There is no performance to be gained by using 2 X 512 MB vs
a 1 GB stick of RAM. But I would definitely get at least 1 GB of RAM.

Hmmm - I thought it did. That feature is said to provide great
advantage by allowing parallel concurrent use of the two RAMs vice
linear as with single-channel.

Is there a socket 754 MOBO that does?
I suppose I might have to go socket 939 to get it? If so, which MOBO?
Thanks

 

[Fitz]

Right now you would have to go with the 939 pin to get the dual channel
feature. Your budget will determine if it's worth it.

If you can afford to wait, then I would see what NForce 4 boards become
available. There are already a few being advertised, but I haven't checked
availability or price.

Just because the 754 pin doesn't support dual channel mode doesn't mean it's
a slacker on performance. With the on chip memory controller, double the
memory "paths" as 32 bit processors, the hyper transport link, and the L2
cache size, they perform very well. I wouldn't write it off based on the
dual channel mode alone.

Fitz

 

[who]

Right now you would have to go with the 939 pin to get the dual channel
feature. Your budget will determine if it's worth it.

If you can afford to wait, then I would see what NForce 4 boards become
available. There are already a few being advertised, but I haven't checked
availability or price.

Just because the 754 pin doesn't support dual channel mode doesn't mean it's
a slacker on performance. With the on chip memory controller, double the
memory "paths" as 32 bit processors, the hyper transport link, and the L2
cache size, they perform very well. I wouldn't write it off based on the
dual channel mode alone.

Fitz

My needs and budget tell me that I should stick with this K8V-SE.
I was going to buy two 512 DDRs to take advantage of dual channelling.
Turns out I would not get that gain. So - I am going to buy just ONE
512MB DDR.

BTW - don't try to call ASUS on their 502 number. You'll sit (at your
expense), listening to their ad extolling their
products/accomplishments. Bummer!

Now to find a cheap, but good 8x AGP video card. Should I worry about
voltage(s)? I don't know yet what voltage the AGP slot on the MOBO
supports, but I hear that may be of concern when choosing a compatible
card..

Thanks for the info.

WhO

 

[Fitz]

I would still recommend 1 GB. Depending on what you want to do with the
system, 512 may be a little on the light side. I have seen my system use 800
MB while doing video editing (leaving other processes running). If you stay
with the 754, I'd get the model with 1MB L2 (Clawhammer) and not the
Sempron.

Fitz

 

[who]

I would still recommend 1 GB. Depending on what you want to do with the
system, 512 may be a little on the light side. I have seen my system use 800
MB while doing video editing (leaving other processes running). If you stay
with the 754, I'd get the model with 1MB L2 (Clawhammer) and not the
Sempron.

Fitz

Thanks for your persistence by which you are staying with me.

Right now I am thinking AMD Athlon 64 3400+ (Newegg for $229.00) with
1MB L2 cache (item N82E16819103426). As to whether it has
'Clawhammer', I do not know now. I never did consider Sempron.

My thanks again. I will mention you in my will. As if that will do
you any good! :>)

WhO

 

[Fitz]

Yes, that's a Clawhammer. The Newcastle has 512MB L2 cache vs 1MB.

Not a bad price...I spent considerably more on the 3200+ when they first
came out.

As for your will....I appreciate the thought, but your spending all my
inheritance on computer parts!

By the way, the board you are considering is AGP 8X, any of the 4X or 8X
cards will work fine.

Fitz