Copy an ide hard disk

[Scott]

I have a desktop pc that is using sata hard disks. I would like to copy an
ide hard disk to a larger one using the desktop pc. Is there any idea to
accomplish it?

Thanks,

Scott

 

[Malke]

I have a desktop pc that is using sata hard disks. I would like to copy
an
ide hard disk to a larger one using the desktop pc. Is there any idea to
accomplish it?

An imaging program will do it. I use Acronis True Image but there are
others.

Malke

 

[R. C. White]

Hi, Scott.

Depending on the many facts you didn't tell us, it can be as simple as using
Windows Explorer's Copy command - or as complex as a third-party
application, as Malke said.

If this is your only disk on your only PC, then follow her instructions. If
you have multiple drives and are dual-booting several Windows versions, post
back with more details and we'll try to help.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8064.0206) in Win7 Ultimate x64 RC 7100

 

[Dominic Payer]

If you open the case there may be a spare IDE connector, or you could
temporarily disconnect any IDE optical drives.

Otherwise, you need an external USB to IDE adaptor or a USB/IDE external
enclosure if you want repeat access to the drive.

 

[Scott]

If you open the case there may be a spare IDE connector, or you could
temporarily disconnect any IDE optical drives.

Otherwise, you need an external USB to IDE adaptor or a USB/IDE external
enclosure if you want repeat access to the drive.

Norton Ghost does not support removable media so usb/ide is now workable
solution.

Scott

 

[Scott]

An imaging program will do it. I use Acronis True Image but there are
others.

Malke

I have Norton Ghost but it does not support removable media. How can I
connect the old and new drives with the pc?

Scott

 

[Scott]

Hi, Scott.

Depending on the many facts you didn't tell us, it can be as simple as
using Windows Explorer's Copy command - or as complex as a third-party
application, as Malke said.

If this is your only disk on your only PC, then follow her instructions.
If you have multiple drives and are dual-booting several Windows versions,
post back with more details and we'll try to help.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8064.0206) in Win7 Ultimate x64 RC 7100

Probably, I did not describe the issue clearly. My computer is working on
Vista Premium and support 2 sata drives. Now I need to copy an old ide hard
disk to a larger one for my laptop pc. I cannot do it on my laptop and
think to use my desktop pc. However, I do not have ide drive connection on
my desktop pc and insufficient drives to accomplish the task. Any other
idea?

Scott

 

[Malke]

Scott wrote:
Probably, I did not describe the issue clearly. My computer is working on

Vista Premium and support 2 sata drives. Now I need to copy an old ide
hard
disk to a larger one for my laptop pc. I cannot do it on my laptop and
think to use my desktop pc. However, I do not have ide drive connection
on
my desktop pc and insufficient drives to accomplish the task. Any other
idea?

Suggestions:

1. Put both the IDE drives into USB external drive cases;
2. or attach internally to your computer if you have the connections on your
motherboard;
3. or use SATA-to-IDE adapter(s) to the motherboard;
4. or use a specialized drive adapter(s) like this one:
http://www.newertech.com/products/usb2_adapt.php

If you are using such an old version of Norton Ghost that it won't support
USB, replace it with a modern imaging program that does. I use the
enterprise version of Acronis True Image Echo because I'm a computer tech,
but you can buy the home version of TI for as little as $35. Here are a few
examples:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...rder=BESTMATCH&Description=acronis+true+image

You need the tools to accomplish the job.

Malke

 

[Anna]

Suggestions:

1. Put both the IDE drives into USB external drive cases;
2. or attach internally to your computer if you have the connections on
your
motherboard;
3. or use SATA-to-IDE adapter(s) to the motherboard;
4. or use a specialized drive adapter(s) like this one:
http://www.newertech.com/products/usb2_adapt.php

If you are using such an old version of Norton Ghost that it won't support
USB, replace it with a modern imaging program that does. I use the
enterprise version of Acronis True Image Echo because I'm a computer tech,
but you can buy the home version of TI for as little as $35. Here are a
few
examples:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...rder=BESTMATCH&Description=acronis+true+image

You need the tools to accomplish the job.

Malke

Scott...
1. Obviously the "source" HDD you're dealing with - the one you label "an
old IDE hard drive" - is a 3 1/2" (desktop-type) HDD, right? Because if it
wasn't, i.e., if it was another 2 1/2" laptop/notebook-type HDD, then there
would be no need to utilize your desktop to realize your objective, right?
In the latter case you would simply use a USB-type external HDD enclosure
designed for 2 1/2" drives to install the new, larger 2 1/2" drive, connect
such to your laptop, and copy (clone or image) the contents of the present
drive to the new one.

2. As Malke indicates, you will obviously also need a program to copy the
complete contents of that 3 1/2" HDD to the new 2 1/2" HDD (assuming for one
reason or another you're dissatisfied with your Norton Ghost program). While
he mentions a disk-imaging type of program I would suggest you also consider
a disk-cloning program, specifically the Casper 5 program.

3. While I won't go into any details now as to why we prefer that program as
a comprehensive backup program, I will provide further details if you're at
all interested. There is a trial version of the Casper 5 program available
at...
http://www.fssdev.com
It's worth a try so I would encourage you to do so. But I have to add that
the 30-day trial version is somewhat "crippled" in that while it will clone
the entire contents of your old HDD to the new HDD, it will create the same
size partition(s) on the new ("destination") HDD equal to the one(s) on your
old ("source") HDD. You didn't indicate the disk size of the drives in
question, but as an example...if your source HDD was single-partitioned, say
80 GB, and the destination HDD had a *total* disk-capacity of say, 250 GB,
then the program would establish only a partition of 80 GB on the
destination drive. The remaining disk-space would be "unallocated" disk
space -obviously disk-space that you could later partition/format or merge
with the created partition. Naturally the licensed version does not have
this restriction.

In any event, the Casper 5 disk-cloning program (it does not have
disk-imaging capability) is a superior product (in my view) for the great
majority of PC users in maintaining a comprehensive backup program. Its
usefulness is particularly apparent when used with a high degree of
frequency so as to result in a user maintaining an up-to-date backup system.

4. Assuming the above suggestions are not, for one reason or another,
practical in your case and you have determined that it's necessary that you
utilize your new desktop PC to effect your objective...

You say "I do not have ide drive connection on my desktop pc and
insufficient drives to accomplish the task."

Are you indicating that your desktop's motherboard does not contain an IDE
channel? While more & more of the new motherboards now contain only a single
IDE channel it's still rather unusual that the motherboard will contain *no*
IDE channels. Is that really the case in your situation, i.e., there's not a
single IDE channel on your motherboard that you can utilize?

Obviously if there *was* an IDE channel on your motherboard you could simply
connect the IDE (PATA) HDD to that channel and use the disk-cloning or
disk-imaging program to effect the copying of the contents of that HDD to
the 2 1/2" HDD installed in a USB enclosure connected to your desktop PC.

5. While I'm not familiar with the *specific* model of the drive adapter
device Malke suggests, I am familiar with this type of device in general.
Frankly our experience has been quite negative after using a fair number of
different makes & models of these type of devices. To the point where we
rarely recommend them. We have encountered far too many instances where
these devices simply didn't work or worked erratically or the result was too
often corrupted/files on the destination drive. And we even encountered some
instances where it adversely affected the source HDD. On the other hand we
have seen reports from users quite satisfied with these devices. I would be
interested to learn whether Malke has personally used this specific model in
a fair number of instances.
Anna

 

[Malke]

Anna wrote:

(snippage)

5. While I'm not familiar with the *specific* model of the drive adapter
device Malke suggests, I am familiar with this type of device in general.
Frankly our experience has been quite negative after using a fair number
of different makes & models of these type of devices. To the point where
we rarely recommend them. We have encountered far too many instances where
these devices simply didn't work or worked erratically or the result was
too often corrupted/files on the destination drive. And we even
encountered some instances where it adversely affected the source HDD. On
the other hand we have seen reports from users quite satisfied with these
devices. I would be interested to learn whether Malke has personally used
this specific model in a fair number of instances.

Yes. I've used an older model of the USB drive adapter from Newertech for
years. I've never had a problem with it. I mostly use it for IDE and laptop
drives. I recently bought this similar item for SATA drives:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153071

and I've been quite happy with it. I also have a bunch of external drive
enclosures and can quickly stick a drive in there if need be.

For the most part I use the adapters and enclosures for data recovery from
clients' hard drives and drives in external enclosures to store my own
images.

I also have enough computers so that if I wanted to work on two drives like
the OP does I probably would just attach them internally to one of the
testbed boxen and boot with the Acronis CD to do the cloning that way. I
prefer to image or clone a drive when it is connected to the motherboard,
either with an add-in PCI card or directly to the motherboard.

However, if the OP doesn't have extra computers, then he is going to need to
either buy some tools/software or take the drives to a tech like me to have
the job done. If it's going to be a one-time job, he'd be better off just
taking it to a tech - who will have all the necessary tools and machines.

Malke

 

[R. C. White]

Hi, Scott.

See? A few more details got you a lot more advice. ;^}

I have only one computer and never had a laptop. But since I've been
dual-booting for a decade and beta-tested both Vista and Win7, my several
HDDs have over a dozen partitions and logical drives. So I've had some
experience with copying whole volumes - both data volumes and boot volumes.

My favorite tool for whole-volume copying is Xcopy.exe, even though
Microsoft is replacing it with RoboCopy. Xcopy won't work very well to move
the current boot volume, but it has no qualms about moving the boot volume
for any Windows version that is not the current OS. And, of course, there's
no problem with copying data files. So, if you can arrange the physical
connection of your IDE drive to the intended destination drive, then just
boot into the Windows of your choice (WinXP, Vista, Win7 - doesn't matter)
on any volume other than the targets. Then, open an Administrator:Command
Prompt window and enter:
C:>Xcopy I:\*.* S:\ /c /h /e /r /k

Where C: is your current boot volume, I: is your IDE source volume, and S:
is your SATA target drive. Enter Xcopy /? to see a mini-Help file listing
the parameters available with Xcopy. The ones I've suggested have always
worked for me in copying a complete boot volume. (As you probably know, the
"boot volume" is not the one used to boot the computer, but is the one
holding the boot folder, \Windows, with all the gigabytes of files and
folders for the operating system, as defined in KB 314470, "Definitions for
system volume and boot volume",
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/314470/EN-US/ .)

This should copy the entire volume, but it will NOT copy the MBR and boot
sector, since those are not files. You will need to use disk utilities
(FixMBR, bootcfg. etc.) if you need to deal with those.

And Xcopy is included with every copy of Windows - even Win7 RC. No need to
buy anything else. ;<)

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8064.0206) in Win7 Ultimate x64 RC 7100

 

[Scott]

Hi, Scott.

See? A few more details got you a lot more advice. ;^}

I have only one computer and never had a laptop. But since I've been
dual-booting for a decade and beta-tested both Vista and Win7, my several
HDDs have over a dozen partitions and logical drives. So I've had some
experience with copying whole volumes - both data volumes and boot
volumes.

My favorite tool for whole-volume copying is Xcopy.exe, even though
Microsoft is replacing it with RoboCopy. Xcopy won't work very well to
move the current boot volume, but it has no qualms about moving the boot
volume for any Windows version that is not the current OS. And, of
course, there's no problem with copying data files. So, if you can
arrange the physical connection of your IDE drive to the intended
destination drive, then just boot into the Windows of your choice (WinXP,
Vista, Win7 - doesn't matter) on any volume other than the targets. Then,
open an Administrator:Command Prompt window and enter:
C:>Xcopy I:\*.* S:\ /c /h /e /r /k

Where C: is your current boot volume, I: is your IDE source volume, and S:
is your SATA target drive. Enter Xcopy /? to see a mini-Help file listing
the parameters available with Xcopy. The ones I've suggested have always
worked for me in copying a complete boot volume. (As you probably know,
the "boot volume" is not the one used to boot the computer, but is the one
holding the boot folder, \Windows, with all the gigabytes of files and
folders for the operating system, as defined in KB 314470, "Definitions
for system volume and boot volume",
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/314470/EN-US/ .)

This should copy the entire volume, but it will NOT copy the MBR and boot
sector, since those are not files. You will need to use disk utilities
(FixMBR, bootcfg. etc.) if you need to deal with those.

And Xcopy is included with every copy of Windows - even Win7 RC. No need
to buy anything else. ;<)

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8064.0206) in Win7 Ultimate x64 RC 7100

Hi RC,

The Xcopy seems very useful. Thank for your advice! However, it cannot
copy the MBR and boot sector, it is important to know it does not fit for my
upgrade to larger hard disk.

Scott

 

[Scott]

Scott wrote:
Probably, I did not describe the issue clearly. My computer is working on

Suggestions:

1. Put both the IDE drives into USB external drive cases;
2. or attach internally to your computer if you have the connections on
your
motherboard;
3. or use SATA-to-IDE adapter(s) to the motherboard;
4. or use a specialized drive adapter(s) like this one:
http://www.newertech.com/products/usb2_adapt.php

If you are using such an old version of Norton Ghost that it won't support
USB, replace it with a modern imaging program that does. I use the
enterprise version of Acronis True Image Echo because I'm a computer tech,
but you can buy the home version of TI for as little as $35. Here are a
few
examples:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...rder=BESTMATCH&Description=acronis+true+image

You need the tools to accomplish the job.

Malke

Hi Malke,

Today I tried the trial version of Acronis True Image Echo to upgrade two
hard disks: ide and sata. Unfortunately, both failed.

Acronis True Image Echo does support removable media while Norton Ghost does
not. I tried to clone the hard disk on my laptop computer to an external
hard disk. It failed on the first partion and the error says it cannot read
xxxx sector, retry and ignor all. I am still looking for the way to do it.

I tried the other laptop hard disk. Firstly connect the new hard disk to my
desktop pc. Secondly connect the old on an external USB adapter. The old
disk contains 3 partitions: recovery, os + application & data. The recovery
and OS + application & data partition copy worked fine but failed while
copying the data partition. I installed the half successfully new hard disk
onto the laptop pc. It booted successfully but the data partition becomes
unallocated. I repartition them and copy the data from the old hard disk
and it works.

Acronis True Image Echo is better but seems the successful rate is not high.

Regards,

Scott

 

[Anna]

Anna wrote:

(snippage)

Yes. I've used an older model of the USB drive adapter from Newertech for
years. I've never had a problem with it. I mostly use it for IDE and
laptop
drives. I recently bought this similar item for SATA drives:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153071

and I've been quite happy with it. I also have a bunch of external drive
enclosures and can quickly stick a drive in there if need be.

For the most part I use the adapters and enclosures for data recovery from
clients' hard drives and drives in external enclosures to store my own
images.

I also have enough computers so that if I wanted to work on two drives
like
the OP does I probably would just attach them internally to one of the
testbed boxen and boot with the Acronis CD to do the cloning that way. I
prefer to image or clone a drive when it is connected to the motherboard,
either with an add-in PCI card or directly to the motherboard.

However, if the OP doesn't have extra computers, then he is going to need
to
either buy some tools/software or take the drives to a tech like me to
have
the job done. If it's going to be a one-time job, he'd be better off just
taking it to a tech - who will have all the necessary tools and machines.

Malke

Malke:
Thanks for the info. We may give that Newertech device you mentioned in your
previous post a try based on your recommendation & positive experience. As I
previously indicated our overall experience with those type of devices have
been abysmally poor for the reasons I indicated. And we've worked with a
fair number of different makes & models.

As to the Thermaltake "dock" you mentioned above...yes, we have worked with
that particular device as well (it belonged to a customer) and, as you have,
found it quite satisfactory. We do use a similar type product, the Vantec
dock - see...
http://www.vantecusa.com/front/product/view_detail/372#
They're quite similar in use & function, however, we prefer the Vantec
device since the power switch is on the *front* of the device. It has always
annoyed us when these external enclosures have (as is the usual case!) the
power switch on the rear of the unit. The power-on LED is quite bright
(actually too bright!) but at least we're fully aware when the device is
powered-on.
Anna

 

[Malke]

Hi Malke,

Today I tried the trial version of Acronis True Image Echo to upgrade two
hard disks: ide and sata. Unfortunately, both failed.

Acronis True Image Echo does support removable media while Norton Ghost
does
not. I tried to clone the hard disk on my laptop computer to an external
hard disk. It failed on the first partion and the error says it cannot
read
xxxx sector, retry and ignor all. I am still looking for the way to do
it.

I tried the other laptop hard disk. Firstly connect the new hard disk to
my
desktop pc. Secondly connect the old on an external USB adapter. The old
disk contains 3 partitions: recovery, os + application & data. The
recovery and OS + application & data partition copy worked fine but failed
while
copying the data partition. I installed the half successfully new hard
disk
onto the laptop pc. It booted successfully but the data partition becomes
unallocated. I repartition them and copy the data from the old hard disk
and it works.

Acronis True Image Echo is better but seems the successful rate is not
high.

I don't know why you're having such difficulties. We use TI Echo to clone
drives for clients all the time with no issues - unless the hard drive
being cloned is bad, of course. We usually only clone drives so we can give
the cloned drive to the client to put in storage for an emergency.

My partner and I normally just *image* drives with TI when we want to do
what you are doing. Try creating an *image* of the drive and put it on a
storage drive in an external USB enclosure. Then install your new drive in
the target machine, boot with TI's rescue CD, and apply the image to the
new raw drive instead.

Malke